The Council of Nicea vs another christian religion

[robert derrick]

There are two great lies about the Council of Nicea, that the founders of another christian religion later gave as excuse for hijacking the church of Christ to their own rule.

Lie #1: That the leaders at Nicea found it necessary to go outside of Scripture to refute the Arian heresy, because they determined Scripture was 'insufficient' to defend itself alone.

The leaders at Nicea did not, but rather kept to the plain reading of several Scriptures to reject the new and false reading of Arius:

The Word was God and was made flesh (John 1), Jesus Christ is the true God (I John 5), and He and the Father are one (John 10, 17:22)

Arius taught that Jesus was not God, and that Christ was a created being in the body of a man, by reading certain Scriptures with a carnal mind:

The Father is greater than the Son (John 10:29, 14:28), and all power was given to the Son by the Father. (Matthew 28)

Lie #2: That the leaders of Nicea also confirmed for the first time what was Scripture. The writings of the prophets and apostles were not acknowledged as Scripture of God, until they were made as such at Nicea.

I.e. their writings and books were well known, but they were not Scripture of authority of God, until Nicean leaders said so.

They did no such thing. All the writings and books of the prophets and apostles were already fully known by the end of the 1st Century. No one doubted that they were Scripture.

Afterward, many writings and books of other 'outside sources' were offered as Scripture equal to that of the prophets and apostles, and these were all rejected by comparing them to the known Scriptures already in hand.

These outside sources of writings and oral traditions were, and are, the would be false apostles and teachers and antichrists that were warned against by the apostles.

Conclusion: Those that would later found another christian religion, did so by lying about the leaders of Nicea, whose open practice was to rely on scriptures only as the authority and source of God's Word, and entirely sufficient to defend the faith of Jesus against all outside heresies.

These founders outside of the prophets and apostles, then proceeded to justify adding their own outside traditions, unconfirmed by Scripture, to be equal to Scripture for doctrine of God.

Since they supposed themselves to be able to determine what is Scripture, they then authorized themselves to determine what could accompany Scripture:

The puffed-up librarians made a hostile takeover of the authority of God that is found in Scripture only.

To this day, they lie about Scripture, that it is insufficient, not only to defend itself against heresy, but also to 'fully teach' the doctrine of God in Christ Jesus.

 

[Mungo]

There are two great lies about the Council of Nicea, that the founders of another christian religion later gave as excuse for hijacking the church of Christ to their own rule.

Lie #1: That the leaders at Nicea found it necessary to go outside of Scripture to refute the Arian heresy, because they determined Scripture was 'insufficient' to defend itself alone.

The leaders at Nicea did not, but rather kept to the plain reading of several Scriptures to reject the new and false reading of Arius:

The Word was God and was made flesh (John 1), Jesus Christ is the true God (I John 5), and He and the Father are one (John 10, 17:22)

Arius taught that Jesus was not God, and that Christ was a created being in the body of a man, by reading certain Scriptures with a carnal mind:

The Father is greater than the Son (John 10:29, 14:28), and all power was given to the Son by the Father. (Matthew 28)

Lie #2: That the leaders of Nicea also confirmed for the first time what was Scripture. The writings of the prophets and apostles were not acknowledged as Scripture of God, until they were made as such at Nicea.

I.e. their writings and books were well known, but they were not Scripture of authority of God, until Nicean leaders said so.

They did no such thing. All the writings and books of the prophets and apostles were already fully known by the end of the 1st Century. No one doubted that they were Scripture.

Afterward, many writings and books of other 'outside sources' were offered as Scripture equal to that of the prophets and apostles, and these were all rejected by comparing them to the known Scriptures already in hand.

These outside sources of writings and oral traditions were, and are, the would be false apostles and teachers and antichrists that were warned against by the apostles.

Conclusion: Those that would later found another christian religion, did so by lying about the leaders of Nicea, whose open practice was to rely on scriptures only as the authority and source of God's Word, and entirely sufficient to defend the faith of Jesus against all outside heresies.

These founders outside of the prophets and apostles, then proceeded to justify adding their own outside traditions, unconfirmed by Scripture, to be equal to Scripture for doctrine of God.

Since they supposed themselves to be able to determine what is Scripture, they then authorized themselves to determine what could accompany Scripture:

The puffed-up librarians made a hostile takeover of the authority of God that is found in Scripture only.

To this day, they lie about Scripture, that it is insufficient, not only to defend itself against heresy, but also to 'fully teach' the doctrine of God in Christ Jesus.

Your claimed lies are straw men.
And as usual you provide not a shred of evidence to back up your claims.

You said:
All the writings and books of the prophets and apostles were already fully known by the end of the 1st Century. No one doubted that they were Scripture.
That is false.

Dave Armstrong has produced The New Testament Canon & Historical Processes, Read it and learn the truth

 

[amigo de christo]

This truly could be so much easier if folks would go to the actual source who inspired the bible and into the bible to learn that truth .
When it comes to anything our pattern ought to mirror that pattern . For corrections , for warnings , for hope , for promises .
The problem is many are being programmed by men of today who have long been teaching things from their own intellectual carnal mind .
IF we take off from doing anything that was originally taught then expect failure and leaven to rise up and fill the place .
We should honestly look at the requirements that paul wrote to a few churches , about how any leader ought to be
as well as the flock itself . I notice the requirements happen to include being grave , serious , correcting error .
How many teachers today have one grave bone in their body . Most just teach a sensual mindset that has ceased
from the original pattern that was taught first by JESUS and then later by the apostels . They have abandoned
the very pattern that Christ set and later the apostels set . IF we take off from that pattern we reap destruction
unto ourselves and unto all who would do so . Most folks can agree that JESUS was the WORD of GOD in flesh .
But they sure dont treat Him as though His every WORD is of GOD . Many can say they agree with paul and other apostels ,
Yet often contradict those who simply bring THEIR reminders . This is not a good thing at all .
It would be so much simplier and confusion would fly away , IF WE would return to bible reading for ourselves and learn that pattern well .

 

[Robert Gwin]

There are two great lies about the Council of Nicea, that the founders of another christian religion later gave as excuse for hijacking the church of Christ to their own rule.

Lie #1: That the leaders at Nicea found it necessary to go outside of Scripture to refute the Arian heresy, because they determined Scripture was 'insufficient' to defend itself alone.

The leaders at Nicea did not, but rather kept to the plain reading of several Scriptures to reject the new and false reading of Arius:

The Word was God and was made flesh (John 1), Jesus Christ is the true God (I John 5), and He and the Father are one (John 10, 17:22)

Arius taught that Jesus was not God, and that Christ was a created being in the body of a man, by reading certain Scriptures with a carnal mind:

The Father is greater than the Son (John 10:29, 14:28), and all power was given to the Son by the Father. (Matthew 28)

Lie #2: That the leaders of Nicea also confirmed for the first time what was Scripture. The writings of the prophets and apostles were not acknowledged as Scripture of God, until they were made as such at Nicea.

I.e. their writings and books were well known, but they were not Scripture of authority of God, until Nicean leaders said so.

They did no such thing. All the writings and books of the prophets and apostles were already fully known by the end of the 1st Century. No one doubted that they were Scripture.

Afterward, many writings and books of other 'outside sources' were offered as Scripture equal to that of the prophets and apostles, and these were all rejected by comparing them to the known Scriptures already in hand.

These outside sources of writings and oral traditions were, and are, the would be false apostles and teachers and antichrists that were warned against by the apostles.

Conclusion: Those that would later found another christian religion, did so by lying about the leaders of Nicea, whose open practice was to rely on scriptures only as the authority and source of God's Word, and entirely sufficient to defend the faith of Jesus against all outside heresies.

These founders outside of the prophets and apostles, then proceeded to justify adding their own outside traditions, unconfirmed by Scripture, to be equal to Scripture for doctrine of God.

Since they supposed themselves to be able to determine what is Scripture, they then authorized themselves to determine what could accompany Scripture:

The puffed-up librarians made a hostile takeover of the authority of God that is found in Scripture only.

To this day, they lie about Scripture, that it is insufficient, not only to defend itself against heresy, but also to 'fully teach' the doctrine of God in Christ Jesus.

How many Christian religions are there Rob?

 

[Marymog]

There are two great lies about the Council of Nicea, that the founders of another christian religion later gave as excuse for hijacking the church of Christ to their own rule.

Lie #1: That the leaders at Nicea found it necessary to go outside of Scripture to refute the Arian heresy, because they determined Scripture was 'insufficient' to defend itself alone.

The leaders at Nicea did not, but rather kept to the plain reading of several Scriptures to reject the new and false reading of Arius:

The Word was God and was made flesh (John 1), Jesus Christ is the true God (I John 5), and He and the Father are one (John 10, 17:22)

Arius taught that Jesus was not God, and that Christ was a created being in the body of a man, by reading certain Scriptures with a carnal mind:

The Father is greater than the Son (John 10:29, 14:28), and all power was given to the Son by the Father. (Matthew 28)

Lie #2: That the leaders of Nicea also confirmed for the first time what was Scripture. The writings of the prophets and apostles were not acknowledged as Scripture of God, until they were made as such at Nicea.

I.e. their writings and books were well known, but they were not Scripture of authority of God, until Nicean leaders said so.

They did no such thing. All the writings and books of the prophets and apostles were already fully known by the end of the 1st Century. No one doubted that they were Scripture.

Afterward, many writings and books of other 'outside sources' were offered as Scripture equal to that of the prophets and apostles, and these were all rejected by comparing them to the known Scriptures already in hand.

These outside sources of writings and oral traditions were, and are, the would be false apostles and teachers and antichrists that were warned against by the apostles.

Conclusion: Those that would later found another christian religion, did so by lying about the leaders of Nicea, whose open practice was to rely on scriptures only as the authority and source of God's Word, and entirely sufficient to defend the faith of Jesus against all outside heresies.

These founders outside of the prophets and apostles, then proceeded to justify adding their own outside traditions, unconfirmed by Scripture, to be equal to Scripture for doctrine of God.

Since they supposed themselves to be able to determine what is Scripture, they then authorized themselves to determine what could accompany Scripture:

The puffed-up librarians made a hostile takeover of the authority of God that is found in Scripture only.

To this day, they lie about Scripture, that it is insufficient, not only to defend itself against heresy, but also to 'fully teach' the doctrine of God in Christ Jesus.

Hey Robert,

In regard to lie #2 you do know that what books were considered Scripture was not even discussed at Nicaea?

But I get the gist of your argument and have a few questions for you: If "All the writings and books of the prophets and apostles were already fully known by the end of the 1st Century" then why did different churches throughout the world disagree on what was Scripture? Why did The Church leaders disagree on what Scripture was if they already knew what Scripture was?

Mary

 

[DPMartin]

There are two great lies about the Council of Nicea, that the founders of another christian religion later gave as excuse for hijacking the church of Christ to their own rule.

Lie #1: That the leaders at Nicea found it necessary to go outside of Scripture to refute the Arian heresy, because they determined Scripture was 'insufficient' to defend itself alone.

The leaders at Nicea did not, but rather kept to the plain reading of several Scriptures to reject the new and false reading of Arius:

The Word was God and was made flesh (John 1), Jesus Christ is the true God (I John 5), and He and the Father are one (John 10, 17:22)

Arius taught that Jesus was not God, and that Christ was a created being in the body of a man, by reading certain Scriptures with a carnal mind:

The Father is greater than the Son (John 10:29, 14:28), and all power was given to the Son by the Father. (Matthew 28)

Lie #2: That the leaders of Nicea also confirmed for the first time what was Scripture. The writings of the prophets and apostles were not acknowledged as Scripture of God, until they were made as such at Nicea.

I.e. their writings and books were well known, but they were not Scripture of authority of God, until Nicean leaders said so.



To this day, they lie about Scripture, that it is insufficient, not only to defend itself against heresy, but also to 'fully teach' the doctrine of God in Christ Jesus.

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh_1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Joh_3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Act_13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.


what apparently you don't know that the Jews knew at that time:

Joh_5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


see your ignorant of this truth.

Mat_7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat_10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat_10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat_11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Mat_12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat_18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat_18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat_20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Mat_24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat_25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat_26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Mat_26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Mat_26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
Mat_26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Luk_2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Luk_10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
Luk_22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
Luk_24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Joh_2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
Joh_5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh_6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh_6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh_8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Joh_8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Joh_8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Joh_8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
Joh_8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
Joh_10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh_10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Joh_10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh_10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh_10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh_10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh_14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh_14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh_14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh_14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh_14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Joh_15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh_15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Joh_15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Joh_15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
Joh_15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
Joh_16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh_18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

 

[robert derrick]

This truly could be so much easier if folks would go to the actual source who inspired the bible and into the bible to learn that truth .
When it comes to anything our pattern ought to mirror that pattern . For corrections , for warnings , for hope , for promises .
The problem is many are being programmed by men of today who have long been teaching things from their own intellectual carnal mind .
IF we take off from doing anything that was originally taught then expect failure and leaven to rise up and fill the place .
We should honestly look at the requirements that paul wrote to a few churches , about how any leader ought to be
as well as the flock itself . I notice the requirements happen to include being grave , serious , correcting error .
How many teachers today have one grave bone in their body . Most just teach a sensual mindset that has ceased
from the original pattern that was taught first by JESUS and then later by the apostels . They have abandoned
the very pattern that Christ set and later the apostels set . IF we take off from that pattern we reap destruction
unto ourselves and unto all who would do so . Most folks can agree that JESUS was the WORD of GOD in flesh .
But they sure dont treat Him as though His every WORD is of GOD . Many can say they agree with paul and other apostels ,
Yet often contradict those who simply bring THEIR reminders . This is not a good thing at all .
It would be so much simplier and confusion would fly away , IF WE would return to bible reading for ourselves and learn that pattern well .

Keeping looking for the true minister, because they are still here.

Division comes when 'Sacred' traditions of men are taught for doctrine of God.

 

[robert derrick]

How many Christian religions are there Rob?

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

This can only be fulfilled by the faith of Jesus in the body of Christ.

Scripture refers to Christians, but not to a 'Christian religion', even as Scripture referred to Jews, but not the 'Jews Religion', until they had rejected their own Messiah.

Which those in the so-called Christian religion today also do, in order to believe and obey their 'Sacred' traditions, and even more so their 'Sacred' leaders.

 

[Mungo]

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

This can only be fulfilled by the faith of Jesus in the body of Christ.

Scripture refers to Christians, but not to a 'Christian religion', even as Scripture referred to Jews, but not the 'Jews Religion', until they had rejected their own Messiah.

Which those in the so-called Christian religion today also do, in order to believe and obey their 'Sacred' traditions, and even more so their 'Sacred' leaders.

SO you invent the term 'Christian religion' and then mock then term.
Very odd behaviour.

 

[robert derrick]

Hey Robert,

In regard to lie #2 you do know that what books were considered Scripture was not even discussed at Nicaea?

But I get the gist of your argument and have a few questions for you: If "All the writings and books of the prophets and apostles were already fully known by the end of the 1st Century" then why did different churches throughout the world disagree on what was Scripture? Why did The Church leaders disagree on what Scripture was if they already knew what Scripture was?

Mary

In regard to lie #2 you do know that what books were considered Scripture was not even discussed at Nicaea?

Which is the main point: they already had in their possession all the writings of the prophets and apostles, which were already acknowledged as all Scripture of God on earth. Athanasius of Alexandria was a leader at Nicea, and his list of books of the old and new covenants is the earliest on record.

then why did different churches throughout the world disagree on what was Scripture?

They didn't disagree on what was Scripture from the prophets and apostles. They disagreed on other writings as being Scripture also.

They were forced to deal with concurrent and later writings as not being Scripture, based upon comparison with the Scriptures they already had and knew to be of God by His apostles and prophets: they were good leaders. They were Sola Scriptura.

The later lie about those leaders was that they determined what was Scripture from among the apostles and prophets, which they already had in possession with the last book of Scripture: Revelation.

The leaders at Nicea did not 'decide' if the writings of the prophets and apostles were in fact Scripture or not, but rather determined what concurrent and later writings were not Scripture in comparison to the apostles and prophets.

Later religion founders made up the lie, in order to justify themselves as 'Sacred' enough to determine what was Scripture and also what could accompany Scripture.

I.e. later librarians exalted their own status as book keepers and teachers into Scripture identifiers and makers.

They acted, and still do act, as if there was no real Scripture in the world from God, until they decided so.

 

[robert derrick]

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh_1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Joh_3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Act_13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.


what apparently you don't know that the Jews knew at that time:

Joh_5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


see your ignorant of this truth.

Mat_7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat_10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat_10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat_11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Mat_12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat_18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat_18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat_20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Mat_24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat_25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat_26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Mat_26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Mat_26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
Mat_26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Luk_2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Luk_10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
Luk_22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
Luk_24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Joh_2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
Joh_5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh_6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh_6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh_8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Joh_8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Joh_8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Joh_8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
Joh_8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
Joh_10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh_10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Joh_10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh_10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh_10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh_10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh_14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh_14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh_14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh_14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh_14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Joh_15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh_15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Joh_15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Joh_15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
Joh_15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
Joh_16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh_18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

What I am plainly ignorant of is your ignorant point.

So, I'll ignore it.

Good Scriptures to read though.

 

[Mungo]

In regard to lie #2 you do know that what books were considered Scripture was not even discussed at Nicaea?

Which is the main point: they already had in their possession all the writings of the prophets and apostles, which were already acknowledged as all Scripture of God on earth. Athanasius of Alexandria was a leader at Nicea, and his list of books of the old and new covenants is the earliest on record.

then why did different churches throughout the world disagree on what was Scripture?

They didn't disagree on what was Scripture from the prophets and apostles. They disagreed on other writings as being Scripture also.

They were forced to deal with concurrent and later writings as not being Scripture, based upon comparison with the Scriptures they already had and knew to be of God by His apostles and prophets: they were good leaders. They were Sola Scriptura.

The later lie about those leaders was that they determined what was Scripture from among the apostles and prophets, which they already had in possession with the last book of Scripture: Revelation.

The leaders at Nicea did not 'decide' if the writings of the prophets and apostles were in fact Scripture or not, but rather determined what concurrent and later writings were not Scripture in comparison to the apostles and prophets.

Later religion founders made up the lie, in order to justify themselves as 'Sacred' enough to determine what was Scripture and also what could accompany Scripture.

I.e. later librarians exalted their own status as book keepers and teachers into Scripture identifiers and makers.

They acted, and still do act, as if there was no real Scripture in the world from God, until they decided so.

Dave Armstrong has produced The New Testament Canon & Historical Processes, Read it and learn the truth

 

[robert derrick]

Dave Armstrong has produced The New Testament Canon & Historical Processes, Read it and learn the truth

You've got to be kidding me. I'm going to read through the mess of 'Catholic' enablers, that produced 'Sacred' lovers such as yourself?

You are joking, right?

I reject both your 'Sacred' traditions and your 'Sacred' history revision to justify them.

You believe what you want, and so will I. However, you have been led to confess that you are not born of the Spirit of truth and have no inward guidance into all truth through the Scriptures.

That is a bad conclusion of bad leadership, no matter how 'Sacred' they and you say they are.

 

[Marymog]

In regard to lie #2 you do know that what books were considered Scripture was not even discussed at Nicaea?

Which is the main point: they already had in their possession all the writings of the prophets and apostles, which were already acknowledged as all Scripture of God on earth. Athanasius of Alexandria was a leader at Nicea, and his list of books of the old and new covenants is the earliest on record.


The leaders at Nicea did not 'decide' if the writings of the prophets and apostles were in fact Scripture or not, but rather determined what concurrent and later writings were not Scripture in comparison to the apostles and prophets.

In your OP you said “…..the leaders of Nicea also confirmed for the first time what was Scripture”. That statement is completely and utterly false. They did NOT discuss what was or was not Scripture.

 

[Mungo]

You've got to be kidding me. I'm going to read through the mess of 'Catholic' enablers, that produced 'Sacred' lovers such as yourself?

You are joking, right?

He gives his sources at the end and they are all Protestant sources.

Are you afraid of the truth?

However, you have been led to confess that you are not born of the Spirit of truth and have no inward guidance into all truth through the Scriptures.

Another lie from you.
Are you afraid of the truth?

 

[Marymog]

then why did different churches throughout the world disagree on what was Scripture?

They didn't disagree on what was Scripture from the prophets and apostles. They disagreed on other writings as being Scripture also.

Hi Robert,

I agree that in general they did not disagree on the 27 books we have today (even though they did disagree on Revelation, Hebrew, James and Jude) so whoever taught you that they didn’t disagree AT ALL on what was Scripture did not teach you well.

But I think I get the gist of your point. Christianity KNEW the core epistles were Scripture and there were some epistles that didn’t make it into Scripture that were disputed.

 

[Marymog]

They were forced to deal with concurrent and later writings as not being Scripture, based upon comparison with the Scriptures they already had and knew to be of God by His apostles and prophets: they were good leaders. They were Sola Scriptura.

Hold on….Hold on….I think your joking here Robert. They were Sola Scriptura??? So what you are saying is that they read Scripture to figure what should be considered Scripture? Is that what your saying??? Even though they disagreed on what epistles should be considered Scripture…..

 

[Marymog]

There are two great lies about the Council of Nicea, that the founders of another christian religion later gave as excuse for hijacking the church of Christ to their own rule…..

Hey Robert,

Who attended the Council at Nicaea? I don’t mean like each individual name but in general; who was there and what was their position in The Church?

What is this other “Christian religion” that hijacked the church of Christ? I have never heard this theory before.

Mary

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Your claimed lies are straw men.
And as usual you provide not a shred of evidence to back up your claims.

You said:
All the writings and books of the prophets and apostles were already fully known by the end of the 1st Century. No one doubted that they were Scripture.
That is false.

Dave Armstrong has produced The New Testament Canon & Historical Processes, Read it and learn the truth

This guy appears to do a great job at showing the battle for the 27 books. We know that the church had to choose from close to 70 gospels and four books of revelation etc. as well as the many other Pauline epistles. On a human level it was a mess, but god was still in full control of th eprocess.

 

[robert derrick]

In your OP you said “…..the leaders of Nicea also confirmed for the first time what was Scripture”. That statement is completely and utterly false. They did NOT discuss what was or was not Scripture.

I said that was lie #2.