The Council of Nicea vs another christian religion

[robert derrick]

He gives his sources at the end and they are all Protestant sources.

Are you afraid of the truth?


Another lie from you.
Are you afraid of the truth?

Jesus promised the apostles , and therefore his Church, that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth. He did not make that promise to individual Christians.

You statement.

You don't know what you are saying, because all you say is what you've been taught to say, and the end result is unbelief in Scripture as the only truth of God, and so you don't believe (John 14:17,16:13), that promises all believers born of His Spirit to have the Holy Spirit of truth to guide us into all truth.

You reject that Scripture; therefore, you reject being born again; therefore, you denounce being saved by the faith of Jesus, that will confirm and believe all Scripture as truth of Him and His believers.

You are a blind proselytized follower of blind guides, being afraid of the truth of scripture. Sacredly so.

 

[robert derrick]

Hi Robert,

I agree that in general they did not disagree on the 27 books we have today (even though they did disagree on Revelation, Hebrew, James and Jude) so whoever taught you that they didn’t disagree AT ALL on what was Scripture did not teach you well.

But I think I get the gist of your point. Christianity KNEW the core epistles were Scripture and there were some epistles that didn’t make it into Scripture that were disputed.

I am not a historian, when it comes to reading and understanding the truth of Scripture, and I purposely avoid being one, because I have seen it wreck the pure understanding of the pure Word of God, by being tainted with other things outside of Scripture. It is not wrong in itself, but we can certainly see here, how it can lead to justification for rejecting Scripture as the authority of God's way, truth, and life.

The fact is, that all the books of the Scripture were already written and known by the end of the 1st century. There was no disputing the writings of the prophets and the apostles as being Scripture.

Even as Scripture prophesied, there would arise others as false christs, apostles, and teachers, even during the times of the apostles, who would put forth their own doctrines and prophecies for that of Christ.

Those concurrent and later writings were judged to be not Scripture itself, by being compared with the Scriptures that were already known: Sola Scriptura.

This understanding of the preservation of all Scriptures from God does not take scholarly study, but rather faith in the true God to do so, along with reasonable sense of how it would be done.

The end result of the Bible, as we have it today, proves it to have occured properly according to God's will. If there were errors and contradictions of any sort therein, then undoubtedly God's Scriptures did not make it to us today, as originally written by His prophets and apostles.

The main thing is that the good leaders of Nicea were lied about later on by false christian religion founders, whose sole purpose was to undermine Scriptural authority of God, in order to insert their own favored 'Sacred' writings and traditions as equal with Scripture of truth. And in the end, their 'Sacred' junk is more important to them than the Holy Scriptures of God.

These outside sources are all of the serpent's subtle work, and men are more than glad to go along with it out of the same pride, that Lucifer fell by: librarian keepers, as the scribes of old, were not content to be the guardians of God's written words, but wanted to elevate themselves alongside and then above what was written by the true prophets and apostles of Christ:

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. (1 Cor 4)

Thinking of men above that which is written: Scripture, is the blindness of false religions made in the name of the Lord God of Israel and Jesus Christ, whether they call themselves Jews or Christians.

 

[Marymog]

I said that was lie #2.

You are right…You did say it was a lie and that “they did no such thing.” I misunderstood what you were saying.

Respectfully, Mary

 

[robert derrick]

Hold on….Hold on….I think your joking here Robert. They were Sola Scriptura??? So what you are saying is that they read Scripture to figure what should be considered Scripture? Is that what your saying??? Even though they disagreed on what epistles should be considered Scripture…..

No, as I showed you we agree that lie #2 is they determined for the first time what was Scripture, they rather were able to finally throw out all things written alongside of Scripture, as not being Scripture indeed.

Sola Scriptura is to confirm any teaching for the Lord God and Jesus Christ as true or not, but comparing it to Scripture.

 

[Curtis]

Your claimed lies are straw men.
And as usual you provide not a shred of evidence to back up your claims.

You said:
All the writings and books of the prophets and apostles were already fully known by the end of the 1st Century. No one doubted that they were Scripture.
That is false.

Dave Armstrong has produced The New Testament Canon & Historical Processes, Read it and learn the truth

By 185 AD they had all of the Testament and most of the NT books as the canon.

Obviously all epistles which were letters to the churches, were in possession by the churches, even before they were able to pool all the letters together.

 

[MatthewG]

What does it do for you Robert, to have the the Council of Nicea as your foundation if that is something you are presenting as a whole in the original post?

What significance does the doctrine of Man ~ from traditions of man set apart from someone who is seeking God in scripture?

Who already believes on Jesus and reborn again by the spirit that is given to the believer from the Father being justified by faith in the Son of God in which people are saved by the grace of God not by works, but by grace thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ who gave his life for all of mankind. Died, was buried, and was resurrected again to new life and a believer is resurrected to new life in becoming a new creation in Christ Jesus. Because of the Father raising again up Jesus from the grave. Conquering over Satan, the demons, hell, sin, and death itself. Having Victory over all things, and all enemies place beneath the feet of Christ. With Jesus there is victory spiritual victory that comes from God above with having a relationship and seeking God and worshiping in spirit and in truth.

 

[Marymog]

I am not a historian, when it comes to reading and understanding the truth of Scripture, and I purposely avoid being one, because I have seen it wreck the pure understanding of the pure Word of God, by being tainted with other things outside of Scripture. It is not wrong in itself, but we can certainly see here, how it can lead to justification for rejecting Scripture as the authority of God's way, truth, and life.

The fact is, that all the books of the Scripture were already written and known by the end of the 1st century. There was no disputing the writings of the prophets and the apostles as being Scripture.

Even as Scripture prophesied, there would arise others as false christs, apostles, and teachers, even during the times of the apostles, who would put forth their own doctrines and prophecies for that of Christ.

Those concurrent and later writings were judged to be not Scripture itself, by being compared with the Scriptures that were already known: Sola Scriptura.

This understanding of the preservation of all Scriptures from God does not take scholarly study, but rather faith in the true God to do so, along with reasonable sense of how it would be done.

The end result of the Bible, as we have it today, proves it to have occured properly according to God's will. If there were errors and contradictions of any sort therein, then undoubtedly God's Scriptures did not make it to us today, as originally written by His prophets and apostles.

The main thing is that the good leaders of Nicea were lied about later on by false christian religion founders, whose sole purpose was to undermine Scriptural authority of God, in order to insert their own favored 'Sacred' writings and traditions as equal with Scripture of truth. And in the end, their 'Sacred' junk is more important to them than the Holy Scriptures of God.

These outside sources are all of the serpent's subtle work, and men are more than glad to go along with it out of the same pride, that Lucifer fell by: librarian keepers, as the scribes of old, were not content to be the guardians of God's written words, but wanted to elevate themselves alongside and then above what was written by the true prophets and apostles of Christ:

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. (1 Cor 4)

Thinking of men above that which is written: Scripture, is the blindness of false religions made in the name of the Lord God of Israel and Jesus Christ, whether they call themselves Jews or Christians.

Hey,

I don’t understand your contention that later writings were judged not to be Scripture by comparing them with the Scriptures that were already known. That makes no sense to me AND we have historical writings that tell us how they decided. I don’t recall that being one of the rules of thumb they used.

But I could be wrong…

 

[Marymog]

No, as I showed you we agree that lie #2 is they determined for the first time what was Scripture, they rather were able to finally throw out all things written alongside of Scripture, as not being Scripture indeed.

Sola Scriptura is to confirm any teaching for the Lord God and Jesus Christ as true or not, but comparing it to Scriptura.

I see now….I think I am having trouble understanding what you write….I apologize. Your follow up explanations help…Thank you.

 

[marks]

Hey,

I don’t understand your contention that later writings were judged not to be Scripture by comparing them with the Scriptures that were already known. That makes no sense to me AND we have historical writings that tell us how they decided. I don’t recall that being one of the rules of thumb they used.

But I could be wrong…

I'd think that if certain writings were believed to be Scripture (a tautology ;) ) and later writings were determined to be contradicted by those Scriptures, that would show them false.

So just to jump in here and say, I can understand how it makes sense. But I don't know that historically.

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

Hey Robert,

Who attended the Council at Nicaea? I don’t mean like each individual name but in general; who was there and what was their position in The Church?

What is this other “Christian religion” that hijacked the church of Christ? I have never heard this theory before.

Mary

The first such religion on earth to be made by man out of the true oracles of God, was the Jews Religion. It was no more the 'true religion' of the God of Israel according to the Scriptures of the old covenant and law of Moses.

For pass over the isles of Chittim, and see; and send unto Kedar, and consider diligently, and see if there be such a thing. Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit. Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD. For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. (Jerem 2)

They 'highjacked' the covenant by pushing their own traditions as equal to that of Scripture, to the point where they rejected Jesus as the Christ, in order to preserve their own 'Sacred' traditions, which then became the Jews Religion: a hostile takeover of the first covenant of God by the long-time subtlety of the serpent, from the days of Malachi to that of Jesus.

Likewise, there have been many such 'takeovers' of the New Testament of Christ, even from the beginning, by them that depart from the apostles' doctrine (John 2:19), and go on to establish their own rule and righteousness and 'Sacred' traditions as being equal to and then above Scripture itself.

We can call them cults and heresies, as with Arius, and whole separate religions put forth falsely in the name of Christ, as with...fill in the blanks.

They give lip service to the name of Jesus, but have departed from the Scriptures of the apostles and the sole Headship of jesus Christ over His own body. That is what a false christ is. And so that is where a false 'christian' religion comes from.

They are not Sola Scriptura in things pertaining to the truth of God, and so they bring in other writings and traditions as equal to Scripture:

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. (2 Peter 2)

They do so for power and profit. Afterall, how would you like people clinging to your every word as proceeding from the mouth of God, without needing to be checked nor confirmed by the Scriptures as being so?

The good leaders of Nicea were not so. They were good and faithful stewards of the oracles, doctrine, covenant, and gospel of God according to the Scriptures.

 

[robert derrick]

I see now….I think I am having trouble understanding what you write….I apologize. Your follow up explanations help…Thank you.

And I perfectly understand, and also apologize, because I know I have a certain way of writing about such things, that has developed over years.

I try writing another way, and I start to confuse myself. :

As the man said, It's all I got.

 

[Mungo]

By 185 AD they had all of the Testament and most of the NT books as the canon.

Obviously all epistles which were letters to the churches, were in possession by the churches, even before they were able to pool all the letters together.

Dave Armstrong has produced a chart The New Testament Canon & Historical Processes.
He compiled the chart from Protestant sources,.

 

[Mungo]

Jesus promised the apostles , and therefore his Church, that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth. He did not make that promise to individual Christians.

You statement.

You don't know what you are saying, because all you say is what you've been taught to say, and the end result is unbelief in Scripture as the only truth of God, and so you don't believe (John 14:17,16:13), that promises all believers born of His Spirit to have the Holy Spirit of truth to guide us into all truth.

You reject that Scripture; therefore, you reject being born again; therefore, you denounce being saved by the faith of Jesus, that will confirm and believe all Scripture as truth of Him and His believers.

You are a blind proselytized follower of blind guides, being afraid of the truth of scripture. Sacredly so.

In John 14:17 @ 16:13 Jesus was speaking to the apostles.
He never made the promises to all believers.
I believe what the Bible teaches not your lies, wild speculations and distortions.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

This can only be fulfilled by the faith of Jesus in the body of Christ.

Scripture refers to Christians, but not to a 'Christian religion', even as Scripture referred to Jews, but not the 'Jews Religion', until they had rejected their own Messiah.

Which those in the so-called Christian religion today also do, in order to believe and obey their 'Sacred' traditions, and even more so their 'Sacred' leaders.

You have listed one identifier Rob, so how many faiths in the world today take care of widows and orphans sir?

 

[robert derrick]

You have listed one identifier Rob, so how many faiths in the world today take care of widows and orphans sir?

You left out the most important part: being unspotted by the world.

That can only be through the Lamb without spot.

Each church cares for their own along with neighbor churches of God.

 

[robert derrick]

In John 14:17 @ 16:13 Jesus was speaking to the apostles.
He never made the promises to all believers.
I believe what the Bible teaches not your lies, wild speculations and distortions.

Then you may call me apostle, because He is speaking to me.

In John 14:17 @ 16:13 Jesus was speaking to the apostles. He never made the promises to all believers.

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Openly confessing not being born of the Spirit of truth nor of the Word of God, as well as rejecting authority of Scripture for God, and yet trying to comment on Scripture with authority.

 

[robert derrick]

'Canonization' is a false term applied to the books of the Bible. It is subtly used in the same way false leaders use the term 'Sacred' for other writings outside of Scripture.

Neither the leaders of Nicea nor any other person ever 'Canonized' the writings of the prophets and apostles of God as being Scripture: no man gave 'authority' to them and thus 'sanctioned' them as Scripture of God.

God Himself had all His Scriptures written, maintained, and kept in the world for us today, and in the process of time, He insured they were all gathered together into one book: the Bible.

The earliest surviving 'list' of those books was at the end of the 300's A.D., and the first known acknowledgment of that list as an assembly of church leaders was at Nicea. And at least one of them was a devil: Arius. (Even as Judas was one of the chosen apostles, and was a devil. (John 6))

God used useful men to write His Word called prophets and apostles, and God used useful, and even unuseful men, to keep them intact, complete, and gathered into one book.

God used Cyrus to return His people to Jerusalem, and was called a servant of God, but that did not make him a faithful believer of God.

The Scribes that rewrote and kept the Scriptures of old turned out to be heretics and false accusers of Jesus.

Just because someone had possession of any of them at one time, does not mean they were faithful believers in what was written, nor are they to be regarded as 'Sacred' authorities on what they kept in possession.

Afterall, how many people around the world today have the Bible in their possession, and even read it, and yet don't believe it, or don't know what they are talking about when commenting on it.

How many art collectors are artists themselves, or masters of art?

Men as stewards of the oracles of God were librarians. Some were faithful believers, others not, and some were even corrupters of what was written, but all the Scriptures God ever had written in the world were preserved complete and accurate by God Himself into one Book to this day

There are plenty of historical sites to be read about the gathering of those writings into one Book, but none of that librarian history matters, other than as a matter of study.

The only thing that matters today for the believer is the perfect final product of all Scripture ever written by His prophets and apostles found in one Book, and in all languages, for us to read and understand and believe unto salvation.

Arguments over manuscripts have their scholarship, but arguments of 'Canonization' is a fool's errand, because there never was any man nor group of men that 'Canonized' or made 'Sacred' the Scriptures of God.

All of God's Scriptures were holy when written, and remained holy before any librarian got their hands on them.

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

[Robert Gwin]

You left out the most important part: being unspotted by the world.

That can only be through the Lamb without spot.

Each church cares for their own along with neighbor churches of God.

What are some things that you would say would be necessary to be unspooted by the world Rob.

You have indicated with your finishing statement that interfaith is accepted, do you have scriptural support for that sir?

 

[Mungo]

Then you may call me apostle, because He is speaking to me.

In John 14:17 @ 16:13 Jesus was speaking to the apostles. He never made the promises to all believers.

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

No he wasn't speaking to you. Jesus was speaking at the Last Supper. Only the 12 were at the Last Supper and by the time Jesus spoke those words Judas had left.
You need to understand context.

Openly confessing not being born of the Spirit of truth nor of the Word of God, as well as rejecting authority of Scripture for God, and yet trying to comment on Scripture with authority.

More lies about me.
‘Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor"
"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”

 

[Curtis]

No he wasn't speaking to you. Jesus was speaking at the Last Supper. Only the 12 were at the Last Supper and by the time Jesus spoke those words Judas had left.
You need to understand context.






More lies about me.
‘Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor"
"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”

Everything Jesus Told them there, applies to all believers in Jesus, unless you want to claim Jesus will return at His second coming, only for the apostles:

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.