The Christian renunciation of power

[Episkopos]

I am starting this thread to discuss the difference between the way of Christ by the Spirit...and the modern cultural form of Christianity that seeks to give temporal governments credibility.

The Christian way is not just a way of non-violence...but a total renunciation of all temporal power. The Devil offered Jesus all the kingdoms of this world. He refused. But what Jesus rejected was foolishly accepted by Christendom.

Jesus' kingdom is NOT of this world. Neither are the means of attaining His kingdom of this world. No amount of money will do it. No amount of military might or weapons will do it. The weapon of God is love....as well as the power of the Holy Spirit (also acting in love).

Human politics is in the realm of the master of this world...the devil. We are to have nothing to do with temporal power. We are not to seek to dominate others. This is anti-Christ. We are by love to serve others. The greatest among us is to be as a servant to all...the lowest place of humility.

We are to not resist evil...but overcome evil with good.


How foreign is the truth to modern believers?

 

[Helen]

I see you have started a thread on this.
I guess so the other one doesn't get hijacked. :)

I guess we are thinking of this subject from different perspectives.
I see God Church as knowing what power we have, not relinquishing it. I believe the Church is in a mess because most do not know what power God has given.

Just like when Moses stood on the brink of the Red Sea and cried to the Lord. God said " What is in your hand?" Moses said " A rod"
God said " why are you crying to Me..USE IT!"

Christians are much like that...they have no idea what God has given to the church. I do pray for Justin Trudeau to come to the Lord..BUT, I also bind the foul spirits that drive him forward , and I pull down the strongholds around him...and I loose the heavenly host to minister to those in our government that follow godly precepts .

So no, I do not believe that christian should 'relinquish' all power!!
Just the very opposite ..."use your God-given anointing! "

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I see you have started a thread on this.
I guess so the other one doesn't get hijacked. :)

I guess we are thinking of this subject from different perspectives.
I see God Church as knowing what power we have, not relinquishing it. I believe the Church is in a mess because most do not know what power God has given.

Just like when Moses stood on the brink of the Red Sea and cried to the Lord. God said " What is in your hand?" Moses said " A rod"
God said " why are you crying to Me..USE IT!"

Christians are much like that...they have no idea what God has given to the church. I do pray for Justin Trudeau to come to the Lord..BUT, I also bind the foul spirits that drive him forward , and I pull down the strongholds around him...and I loose the heavenly host to minister to those in our government that follow godly precepts .

So no, I do not believe that christian should 'relinquish' all power!!
Just the very opposite ..."use your God-given anointing! "

1 Corinthians 4:21
[21] What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

 

[Episkopos]

I see you have started a thread on this.
I guess so the other one doesn't get hijacked. :)

I guess we are thinking of this subject from different perspectives.
I see God Church as knowing what power we have, not relinquishing it. I believe the Church is in a mess because most do not know what power God has given.

Just like when Moses stood on the brink of the Red Sea and cried to the Lord. God said " What is in your hand?" Moses said " A rod"
God said " why are you crying to Me..USE IT!"

Christians are much like that...they have no idea what God has given to the church. I do pray for Justin Trudeau to come to the Lord..BUT, I also bind the foul spirits that drive him forward , and I pull down the strongholds around him...and I loose the heavenly host to minister to those in our government that follow godly precepts .

So no, I do not believe that christian should 'relinquish' all power!!
Just the very opposite ..."use your God-given anointing! "

 

[Episkopos]

I see you have started a thread on this.
I guess so the other one doesn't get hijacked. :)

Such is the case. :)

I guess we are thinking of this subject from different perspectives.
I see God Church as knowing what power we have, not relinquishing it. I believe the Church is in a mess because most do not know what power God has given.

The other thread was about guns. What I meant by power is the power of the gun. Really all temporal power. We are not to seek to dominate others or vanquish them by human means. Of course we fight by the Spirit. But who is going to do that BEFORE they relinquish all human means?

Just like when Moses stood on the brink of the Red Sea and cried to the Lord. God said " What is in your hand?" Moses said " A rod"
God said " why are you crying to Me..USE IT!"

Use faith and the means of heaven.

Christians are much like that...they have no idea what God has given to the church. I do pray for Justin Trudeau to come to the Lord..BUT, I also bind the foul spirits that drive him forward , and I pull down the strongholds around him...and I loose the heavenly host to minister to those in our government that follow godly precepts .

So that was you???!!! ;)

So no, I do not believe that christian should 'relinquish' all power!!
Just the very opposite ..."use your God-given anointing! "

We do relinquish power. The Spirit is not something to relinquish. The human powers are. The Spirit is something we quench or grieve, The very use of human powers causes us to not seek for the spiritual power that is to be the means of our warfare. We can only relinquish what we already have. And that is the available human means. We need to cry out to God for HIS power and grace to be the kind of revolutionaries that resemble Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus said...What is the use of gaining the world only to lose your soul in the process.

A Christian while respecting the authority of temporal political leaders...does not seek to wield power over others.

This is an excerpt from a famed theologian...Jacques Ellul. "I can very well say, without hesitation, that all those who have political power even if they use it well, have acquired it by demonic mediation even if they are not conscious of it....they are the worshipers of diabolos."

If the kingdom of God is NOT of this world and we are to seek first the kingdom and His righteousness....we must then steer clear of the stain of political involvement. The influence we seek after is the exousia of God which is by the Holy Spirit.

We can't serve 2 masters.

 

[Helen]

The other thread was about guns. What I meant by power is the power of the gun. Really all temporal power.


So that was you???!!! ;)

Aah! Then I did not understand from your previous post on the other thread, when you spoke of power. It sounded like you were talking about all power for the Christian.
Not just the guns.

:) I just 'do my bit' as I pray for our government ...I don't think I am doing it single handed ( I wish! LOL ) I just hope other Christians have not 'relinquished power' ...and allowing Trudeau to get away with finishing what his father started in bringing Canada into the dust.

Glad that you clarified what power you were talking about. ;)

 

[Helen]

1 Corinthians 4:21
[21] What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

I can't quite work out how this scripture is connected with what I posted?
Enlighten me.

 

[Enoch111]

Jesus' kingdom is NOT of this world.

Christians must never present a ONE-SIDED view of Christ and the Kingdom of God. That is not how it is presented in Scripture, and we are to faithfully present what God has set before us. It is the Gospel of God and the Gospel of Christ, not the Gospel of Christianity. So let's get this in perspective:

1. When Jesus said that His Kingdom was not of this world, there was a specific context in which He made that remark. What it meant is that at His first coming, He had not come to establish His literal, visible, physical and spiritual tangible Kingdom on earth. He had come as the Lamb of God, therefore there would be no resistance to Rome or to the authority of the religious leaders of His day.

2. In this context, He also said that the Kingdom of God is within you, meaning that His subjects were those who had received Him as Lord and Savior, and submitted to His absolute Lordship.

3. AT THE SAME TIME, Christ clearly announced that He would return "WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY" at His Second Coming. He would return as King of kings and Lord of lords, crush His enemies under His feet, destroy all the kingdoms of the world, and then set up the universal Kingdom of God on earth, ruling with a rod of iron.

Neither are the means of attaining His kingdom of this world.

1. That is correct, and that's why Dominion Theology is false. The mandate which has been given to the Church is clearly stated in Matthew 28:18-20, Mark 16:15,16, and Luke 24:46-49.

2. AT THE SAME TIME, God says that *the powers that be are ordained of God* which means that earthly governments are allowed to govern until the Second Coming of Christ. And in democratic countries, it means that Christian citizens have a duty to vote for those who will govern righteously. This does not in any way excuse the betrayal of all democracies by the elected representatives, but Christians cannot isolate themselves from what happens within their governments.

 

[Nancy]

Jesus said...What is the use of gaining the world only to lose your soul in the process.

A Christian while respecting the authority of temporal political leaders...does not seek to wield power over others.

This is an excerpt from a famed theologian...Jacques Ellul. "I can very well say, without hesitation, that all those who have political power even if they use it well, have acquired it by demonic mediation even if they are not conscious of it....they are the worshipers of diabolos."

If the kingdom of God is NOT of this world and we are to seek first the kingdom and His righteousness....we must then steer clear of the stain of political involvement. The influence we seek after is the exousia of God which is by the Holy Spirit.

We can't serve 2 masters.

Amen, we are not to concern ourselves "with the cares of this world"
Pray for those in power, and keep the law of the land...that is about as far as I go with politics anymore!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I can't quite work out how this scripture is connected with what I posted?
Enlighten me.

Nevermind. Hope you have a blessed Christmas.