THE APOSTLES DID NOT ALL PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL

[Behold]

Jesus spoke the good news to Nicodemas...you must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God?

Jesus told Nick there is a difference between being born of your mother, vs being born of the Holy Spirit or "born... again".

That is not the Gospel.

No one can become Born Again, not until God chooses to give birth to our spirit...

God chooses to give the new birth in the spirit to everyone who gives God their faith in Christ. or "all who will believe".

Spirit gives birth to spirit..

"God is A Spirit" = the Holy Spirit and its by The Holy Spirit of God, that a person is born again... spiritually.

God draws us to Jesus, God brings us to repentance, God brings us to initially believe in Jesus, then births us in the Spirit.

Yes.
God Draws us, but He waits for US to Believe........as we are the BELIEVER.

Jesus said that when He was "Lifted up on the Cross" He would DRAW everyone to Himself.
And He does this .. as the Power of The Cross, is still calling the Lost to "come and Believe".

There is no faith in us...to walk and believe in Jesus...not until our spirit is reconciled back to God.

God does not deal with your spirit, until He forgives your sin.
See, The Cross of Christ is where God forgives our sin, and then once forgiven, He gives us a spiritual birth.

 

[Behold]

Of course they did.

The Apostles can't tell people about Jesus dying for their Sin, while Jesus was in His ministry with them.. .as He had not died on the Cross Yet.
This is why they didn't preach the Gospel that we preach, that is "Cross Centered", until much later, after Jesus was back in Heaven, and it was Paul who taught them, in Acts 15.

 

[Matthias]

The Apostles can't tell people about Jesus dying for their Sin, while Jesus was in His ministry with them.. .as He had not died on the Cross Yet.
This is why they can't preach the Gospel that we preach, that is "Cross Centered"

Newbies should take note of this: You aren’t preaching the gospel that Jesus and the apostles preached.

You’ve reasoned yourself out of it.

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus told Nick there is a difference between being born of your mother, vs being born of the Holy Spirit or "born... again".

That is not the Gospel.

That is the Gospel/ good news...your above sentence makes no sense to me.

God chooses to give the new birth in the spirit to everyone who gives God their faith in Christ. or "all who will believe".

That is not how God says we are Born Of The Spirit..

How do you give God your faith...when we don’t know him in our spirit....not until it’s Born Again..only then can we walk in faith.

"God is A Spirit" = the Holy Spirit and its by The Holy Spirit of God, that a person is born again... spiritually.

God is a “ Living “ Spirit...we are Born Of The Spirit....exactly the way his word explains it...by supernatural, divine heart revelation.

Yes.
God Draws us, but He waits for US to Believe........as we are the BELIEVER.

He brought me to initially believe....in Jesus...then he gifted me the faith to know God/ Jesus in my spirit....our spirit is what is reconciled back to God...when...Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Jesus said that when He was "Lifted up on the Cross" He would DRAW everyone to Himself.
And He does this .. as the Power of The Cross, is still calling the Lost to "come and Believe".

Jesus has already explained to Nicodemas how we are Born Of The Spirit...there is no need to add anymore, as you keep doing to his word.

God does not deal with your spirit, until He forgives your sin.
See, The Cross of Christ is where God forgives our sin, and then once forgiven, He gives us a spiritual birth.

We are brought to repentance and forgiven our sin..by God...he forgave my sin....and he also birthed my spirit into His Living Spirit.

Born Again of imperishable seed....my testimony will NEVER change...to suit you or your understanding of what it means to be Born Again...

No matter how many times you accuse me of being a Calvinist or a doctrine of devils.

I go by the Living testimony who indwells my heart/ spirit....I’m here to Glorify God..not myself.

Faith is a gift from God= it comes by supernatural divine heart revelation...

I never knew God...not until his Living testimony birthed my spirit into his.

 

[Ritajanice]

The Apostles can't tell people about Jesus dying for their Sin, while Jesus was in His ministry with them.. .as He had not died on the Cross Yet.
This is why they didn't preach the Gospel that we preach, that is "Cross Centered", until much later, after Jesus was back in Heaven, and it was Paul who taught them, in Acts 15.

I understand what you are saying here I think....

He preached part of the Gospel....regarding the rebirth...of course he never taught about his death and resurrection that was to come.......apparently he did teach about his death and resurrection... @Behold ?

So no...he never taught the fullness of the Gospel...imo.

He taught the good news about seeing the Kingdom Of God.?

 

[Ritajanice]

Newbies should take note of this: You aren’t preaching the gospel that Jesus and the apostles preached.

You’ve reasoned yourself out of it.

Did Jesus preach about his death and resurrection ?

That too is good news ..the gospel is it not?

So...would you say he preached about the Kingdom Of God?

That too was good news or part of the gospel was it not?
Jesus gospel was the gospel of the Kingdom(Matthew 4:23, 9:35, 24:14, Luke 16:16).

 

[Matthias]

Did Jesus preach about his death and resurrection ?

Yes.

That too is good news ..the gospel is it not?

It is.

So...would you say he preached about the Kingdom Of God?

Yes.

That too was good news or part of the gospel was it not?

It was and is.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes

Ok.


Did he ever preach or teach why he had to die?

 

[Matthias]

Ok.


Did he ever preach or teach why he had to die?

Yes.

 

[Behold]

That is the Gospel/ good news...your above sentence makes no sense to me.

Jesus was explaining a spiritual principle to Nicodemus.

He was not offering Him Salvation, as Jesus had not died on The Cross yet........so, it was not available, yet.

That is not how God says we are Born Of The Spirit..

The Holy Spirit causes the new birth in a Believer, after their sin is forgiven.

How do you give God your faith...when we don’t know him in our spirit..

Everyone has faith.
Right now 2 Billion Muslims believe that Muhammed is a Prophet.
They have FAITH in that.... and if they take that Faith, and give it to God, believing in Jesus.....then they have placed their faith in Christ, that God requires, before He will forgives them and gives them the New Birth.

God is a “ Living “ Spirit...we are Born Of The Spirit....exactly the way his word explains it...by supernatural, divine heart revelation.

Yes, God is "A Spirit'....... = The Holy Spirit., and its the Holy Spirit who causes the new birth, as "born again".

He brought me to initially believe....in Jesus...then he gifted me the faith to know God/

God showed you Jesus, and you believed.

Jesus has already explained to Nicodemas how we are Born Of The Spirit...there is no need to add anymore, as you keep doing to his word.

John 3 is where Jesus explains to Nicodemus that being born again spiritually, is not about "going back inside your mother to come out a 2nd time"........as that is what Nicodemus thought Jesus was explaining.
So, Jesus explains He it talking about a spiritual birth.

Born Again of imperishable seed....my testimony will NEVER change...to suit you or your understanding of what it means to be Born Again...

No one is talking to you about your obsession with that...

Im not.

No matter how many times you accuse me of being a Calvinist or a doctrine of devils.

Ive not stated today that you are a Calvinist.

Faith is a gift from God=

What you are now saying, posting ( Is Calvinism), and its a false doctrine that a Calvinist teaches.
God does not give you faith to believe, as if He did that, He would require it., as He would not require what He causes.

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus was explaining a spiritual principle to Nicodemus.

He was explaining to Nicodemas exactly how we are Born Of The Spirit.

He didn’t understand Jesus, because he was still in the flesh.

He was not offering Him Salvation, as Jesus had not died on The Cross yet........so, it was not available, yet.

He was explaining salvation and how we are saved from eternal damnation.

The Holy Spirit causes the new birth in a Believer, after their sin is forgiven.

That is not how God says we are Born Of The Spirit......we are Born Of The Spirit once our sin has been forgiven by God.

Everyone has faith.

I never had any faith in God...so please don’t speak for me...I was gifted faith...the moment my spirit was birthed....then I had supernatural faith, to know God in my spirit as it had been birthed.by the Living Spirit.

Right now 2 Billion Muslims believe that Muhammed is a Prophet.
They have FAITH in that..

That imo is not God given faith......they have worldly belief ......which is no faith at all.imo.

.. and if they take that Faith, and give it to God, believing in Jesus.....then they have placed their faith in Christ, that God requires, before He will forgives them and gives them the New Birth.

That makes no sense to me....

Yes, God is "A Spirit'....... = The Holy Spirit., and its the Holy Spirit who causes the new birth, as "born again".

We are Born Again exactly the way God says we are Born Again..

God showed you Jesus, and you believed.

God drew me to initially believe in Jesus....then he birthed my spirit into his....only then could I believe in Jesus, as it was a spiritual birth...a Living spiritual birth....supernatural faith is gifted by God..

John 3 is where Jesus explains to Nicodemus that being born again spiritually, is not about "going back inside your mother to come out a 2nd time"........as that is what Nicodemus thought Jesus was explaining.
So, Jesus explains He it talking about a spiritual birth.

Jesus explains to Nicodemas exactly how we are Born Of The Spirit.

Nicodemas didn’t understand the spirit birth as he was not Born Again..in other words he was still in the flesh.

No one is talking to you about your obsession with that...

You are obsessed with those who don’t agree with “ your” doctrine....you call them Calvinist and devils....utter silly nonsense......which I’ve already explained I rebuke in Jesus Name.

Im not.



Ive not stated today that you are a Calvinist.

You have stated many times that I am a Calvinist and teach a doctrine of devils...those words of yours to me are all over the forum.....of course I rebuke your silly nonsense..in the Name Of Jesus.

What you are now saying, posting ( Is Calvinism), and its not true.
God does not give you faith to believe, as if He did that, He would require it., as He would not require what He causes.

God gifted me supernatural faith to know him in my spirit...that is where we know God.....you can’t muster up knowing or believing in spirit,God....by your own human faith....faith is a supernatural gift, which comes by supernatural divine heart revelation.

This is my last post to you regarding the rebirth......I stand by everyone of my posts....regarding the rebirth and supernatural faith....it’s a gift from God......being Born Of The Spirit.....and it happens exactly as Jesus explains to Nicodemas.

I’m here to Glorify the Living Spirit Of God ...and will continue to do so....I’m not here to continue back and forth with you".....your testimony is your testimony and my testimony is my testimony , which I will never deny....Praise God!

Good day and I pray that you seek more and more of God’s heart.....to know him more in your spirit/ heart.

It’s the heart is where we know God and that is where we are called to seek him....in Jesus Name...Amen.

 

[Behold]

He was explaining to Nicodemas exactly how we are Born Of The Spirit.

As i said.

However, did you notice that He never told Nicodemus to "believe in me".
And Notice that Jesus had not died on The Cross for Nicodemus's sin.

See that?

But later, after The Cross and the Resurrection, we now have this.......and its through The Cross of Christ that a sinner and God can become "one"..........as its The Cross that allows God to forgive sin, and then take us as His own, giving us the new birth with the Spirit and In the Spirit... = Born..........again/

He didn’t understand Jesus, because he was still in the flesh.

Yes, He could not have understood what the Holy Spirit teaches, because the Holy Spirit was not yet given........He was given in Acts 2

He was explaining salvation and how we are saved from eternal damnation.

Salvation is found on The Cross.........not before it.

The Cross of Christ is where CHRISTianity was begun.. were it was born.

.we are Born Of The Spirit once our sin has been forgiven by God.

Exactly... as God can't join His Spirit with ours, if we are not forgiven our sin.

I never had any faith in God..

But you had faith., as everyone has faith......but until we give it to God........(Trusting in Christ) our faith is misplaced.

Right now on this Forum, you have people who were water baptized and told....."there go your sins...the water washed them away".
Or you have people that St Steven is leading to Hell by telling them they are already saved, and yet they are not born again, or even forgiven yet.

See that? That is a lie, and their faith is in this Water Baptism Lie., or they have put their faith in St-Steven's LIE.

God drew me to initially believe in Jesus....then he birthed my spirit into his....only then could I believe in Jesus,

God gives the new birth after you give God your Faith in Christ.

God sees your faith......He then forgives your sin... or He can't birth your Spirit with the Holy Spirit.

You are obsessed with those who don’t agree with “ your” doctrine.

Not at all.
But what i do, is allow someone to state some false doctrine, and then i teach what is wrong with it.........for the benefit of the READERS, as the one im dealing with, who is bound by the false doctrine is not listening, as they can't.

And also, i only teach Pauline Theology.

You have stated many times that I am a Calvinist

But i didnt do this today..

God gifted me supernatural faith to know him in my spirit..

That didnt happen., as God requires YOUR faith, to save you.........not His.

This is my last post to you regarding the rebirth...

Listen..

You brought it up in our conversation(s).
Not me.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes.

Thank you @Matthias for your input....I have some further studying to do....God Bless.

 

[Doug]

Disagree.

Matt 16:
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

This not speaking of the revelations given to Paul..........what was revealed was that Jesus is the Son of God

 

[Taken]

This not speaking of the revelations given to Paul..........what was revealed was that Jesus is the Son of God

The mystery of the gospel was revealed by revelations of Jesus Christ only to Paul.

On this point. I disagreed with you.

Further…

Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles.

Paul’s mission was: to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to:
Gentiles, kings and children of Israel .
(acts 9: 15).

The twelve Apostles were not preaching the same gospel as Paul, but rather the gospel of the kingdom, which Paul never preached.

Acts 28: (Paul preaching)
[23] And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

 

[Doug]

On this point. I disagreed with you.

Further…

Paul’s mission was: to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to:
Gentiles, kings and children of Israel .
(acts 9: 15).


Acts 28: (Paul preaching)
[23] And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

On this point. I disagreed with you.

[Eph 3:1-5 KJV] 1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Paul said it was to him that the mystery was revealed, by Jesus Christ...........it was revealed to the apostles by the Spirit.....not directly by Christ

Paul’s mission was: to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to:
Gentiles, kings and children of Israel .
(acts 9: 15).

yes but he is apostle to the Gentiles...............[Rom 11:13 KJV] 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Acts 28: (Paul preaching)
[23] And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

[2Ti 4:18 KJV] 18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve [me] unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Paul preached the heavenly kingdom........the kingdom of God is a general term which includes heaven and earth

Paul preached Christ from the mystery and from the law and prophets

 

[LoveYeshua]

The mystery of the gospel was revealed by revelations of Jesus Christ only to Paul.

there was no mistery in what Jesus was teaching, he was teaching openly and to all.

John 18:20"I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet, and in secret I have said nothing"

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

jesus certainly would not teach to one man in secret a different Gospel that the one he preached.

Jesus warned us about such things;
Matthew 24:26 in the New King James Version (NKJV) states:
"Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it."
KJV uses;
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

paul claimed to recieve a \secret gospel in secret, Christ sais that would not happen but said that people claiming so would decieve. rings a bell?

Paul and the twelve Apostles preached Christ. Paul preached Christ according to the mystery and the scriptures of the prophets. The twelve did not preach Christ according to the mystery.

Paul claims the gospel as being "my gospel", which distinguishes it from all others. Paul states his gospel was according to the mystery. The mystery was kept secret until revealed to Paul, which means the twelve Apostles could not have known it.

Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles.

Jesus revealed the mystery to Paul

where did this happen?, In secret chambers? in inner chambers? where are the witnesses? witnesses are super important in the bible, no witnesses means it should not ne considered, want proof? here id what Jesus One with GOD said about it?

Jhn 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

Jhn 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

Jhn 5:33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.

Jhn 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

Jhn 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Paul had zero witness about his Mystery gospel so .......

The mystery was hid even from the twelve disciples, but was made manifest to us by Paul.


The twelve Apostles were not preaching the same gospel as Paul, but rather the gospel of the kingdom, which Paul never preached.

the mystery was not given to the 12 because it never existed.
the 12 apostles were preaching wat Jesus told them to preach; Repentance from sin ( by keeping the ten Commandments, the covenant), The Kingdom Of Heaven, HOW to enter it and all he did in his life for us, that was what they preached, all of it.

Paul preached something different and we should use caution if it is different from Christ gospel, there is only one truth Doug as I explained before.

 

[LoveYeshua]

THE APOSTLES DID NOT ALL PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL

Have you thought through the logical ramifications?


Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. Therefore, Paul is saying that Jesus is accursed.



Therefore, Paul is not speaking by the Spirit of God, and Galatians is uninspired and should be removed from the canon, QED.

Are you SURE you want to go there?

Logic here is not Important the ramifications are however.

i know many interpret the following verse in all sorts of ways to again make excuses for Paul who wrote clearly;
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.

Here paul says the law was faulty, the bible says clearly the people did not want to follow the law. in Jeremiah 31:31-33, it says the law will be put in put our flesh and hearts instead of kept on tablets of stone, yes the same law that is the 10 commandments that the bible defines as the COVANANT. All over the bible is says that the commandments are perfect and etarnal they reflect Love, first to GOD then to our neighbours.

second, Jesus was not in the"" likeness""of Flesh HE WAS in the FLESH, PERFECT WITHOUT SIN!

this is one of the Most Horrid thing said against Christ I have ever read apart from the Talmud. these words of Paul diminish greatly the divinity and teachings of Jesus.

 

[LoveYeshua]

When Jesus was on Earth, He was not able to Preach the Gospel..........because the Gospel is based on Jesus on The Cross.

So, when Jesus had His earthly ministry......>He was "sent to the house of Israel" only...
And because He had not died on The Cross, while He was performing His ministry for the JEW.....>He could not give them the same Gospel, that is the "Gospel of the Grace of God".......that He gave to Paul, AFTER He died on the Cross, and was back in Heaven.

See, Jesus could not "preach" the message of The Good news.......>"that Jesus has died for your sin"......to the Jews, as He had not died Yet.
So, He sent PAUL with this "Gospel message"., and its Paul's Gospel that real Christians "preach", and that is not "water baptism".

Jesus gospel was clearly defined, Jesus preached Repentance and the Kingdom of Heaven, this is what he preached, first to the jews then to the gentiles.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Yes, they preached the "Gospel of God". that deals with the "Kingdom come down to earth"........ and that is NOT related to The Cross where Jesus died for your sin, which is "The Gospel" that Christins are to share with SINNERS.

See it yet ??????????????????? @Matthias

@Behold
You do not see that the first four books of the N.T. explain and describe the cross before PAUL did? the evidence that the disciples knew before Jesus was crucified is below also Note that they Knew way before paul!

Matthew 16:21 (NKJV)​

"From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day."

This is the first clear moment where Jesus tells them openly what will happen.

Matthew 17:22–23 (NKJV)​

"Now while they were staying in Galilee, Jesus said to them, 'The Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men, and they will kill Him, and the third day He will be raised up.' And they were exceedingly sorrowful."

​

Matthew 20:18–19 (NKJV)​

"Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again."

Here, Jesus is very detailed: betrayal, judgment by Jews, handed to Romans, mocked, whipped, crucified, and rise again!!!!

​

Mark 8:31 (NKJV)​

"And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again."

Luke 9:22 (NKJV)​

"The Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day."

​

John 3:14–16 (NKJV)​

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Here, Jesus explains it using a picture from the Old Testament: just like Moses lifted up the bronze serpent, Jesus would be lifted up (on the cross), so that those who believe would live.

7. John 12:32–33 (NKJV)​

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."
This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

Jesus is saying here that His death on the cross (being “lifted up”) would be the way to bring people to Him.


Yes the cross was Most important but this, his disciples preached also as Jesus did say to them;

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.