The answer of hell and its origins

[Aunty Jane]

If you are constantly receiving new revelation it shouldn’t be in conflict with what you taught in the past if it all came from God.

Who said we were "constantly receiving new revelations"? You did...I didn't.
If you are going to quote me at least do it accurately, that way you don't put your own spin on my words.

I said that clarifications are made from time to time, revealing more about something we have already studied. All of Jehovah's Witnesses are Bible students.....we don't do "church"......sitting in a building being spoon fed....we actually study and participate in our meetings and are encouraged to do our own research and to share what we learn with our brothers. Bible study is a large part of what we do....so is the preaching about God's Kingdom. (Matthew 24:14; Matt 28-19-20)

It is a very satisfying thing to be able to answer people's questions straight from their own Bible.

The fuller revelation in Christ in the New Testament does not correct the Old Testament revelation, but develops it and brings it to fulfilment

No, it doesn't.....it takes the OT prophesies and reveals their past and present fulfillment in more detail. We couldn't understand Christ's teachings without a sound knowledge of the Hebrew scriptures.....which is the only scripture he used and quoted from.
I like to use the Jewish Tanakh when I need a Jewish rendering of their scripture. I believe that they can translate their own language better than we can.

JWs conceive it to be their first duty to denounce all other religious bodies. This is obvious from your posts.

It is our duty to tell the truth.....why would we not want to correct some horrible lies like Christendom's hellfire? Or who the Bible says God is and what role Christ plays in the outworking of God's purpose?
Or praying to Mary or Jesus as if the scriptures teach us to do that.

Matthew 7:21-23....ESV, we are warned....
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"

That being the case, these people are totally misled into believing that they are headed for heaven to be with their "Lord"....what a shock it will be when Jesus says...."I NEVER KNEW YOU; depart from me you workers of lawlessness". Whose laws are they breaking? If they are Christians, they will not be knowingly breaking any laws.

If you were in that situation and you believed that you were right, and yet the possibility of that rejection was awaiting you, would you want to know?....or would you rather be ignorant and carry on with the lies that you were taught by a thoroughly corrupted religious system?
The choice is ours. God will not correct us because we have to want the truth no matter how difficult it is to hear it. If we are deluded in our thinking, we will perish in that state.

2 Thess 2:9-12...ESV
"The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

The only way for a professed Christian to "take pleasure in unrighteousness", is not to recognize it as such....they will fall for a wicked deception.

You don’t get information from the source of the denominations you bash. You told me I am in bed with Mystery Babylon.

I use widely recognized and accepted sources for my information......Biblegateway provides me with a variety of translations so that I can compare them, especially with the Mounce Greek Interlinear that gives me insight into how some translations render certain verses in a very biased way....including themselves.
I love Strongs Concordance which allows me to see the original language words and their base meanings, as well as how they are used in other verses.

I have come out of Christendom so I know what they teach.....I don't have to go searching for their beliefs.

Witnesses believe that after the death of the apostles, the Church embarked on a "Great Apostasy", diverging from the original teachings of Jesus on several major points. Influenced by Restorationism in the 19th century, Charles Taze Russell and his associates formed a Bible study group in the 1870s in Allegheny, Pennsylvania, developing teachings that they considered to be a revival of "the great truths taught by Jesus and the Apostles".[63] Watch Tower publications claim both the Great Apostasy and Russell's subsequent "restoration" of original Christianity[64] were a fulfilment of Jesus' parable of the wheat and the weeds at Matthew 13:24-30,36-43.[65]
Although many of their eschatological teachings have changed over the years,[66] Jehovah's Witnesses have consistently claimed to be the only true religion.[67] Based on their interpretation of Revelation 18:2-24, Jehovah's Witnesses believe all other religions are part of "Babylon the Great", a "world empire of false religion" under the control of Satan. Consequently, they refuse all ecumenical relations with other religious denominations”

I can't argue with much of that....certainly some of our expectations have altered over the years, but keeping Jehovah's day in mind is what Jesus told us to do....so we are in expectation as we are supposed to be....it will come at a time we do not expect.....

Matt 24:42-44...
"Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect."

We are ready....are you?

 

[RLT63]

View attachment 29966
And of course Catholics know what Jehovah's Witnesses believe better than JW's do....

You crack me up ....that's like asking the Pharisees what they thought of Jesus.....

Yet you know what all denominations believe. You try to tell me what I believe. Now you don’t respond to the previous post you just poison the well.

 

[robert derrick]

you might seek me out when you have fallen off the cliff, and all those vv have changed on you ok

If I fall off the cliff, and want to climb it again, then I certainly won't be seeking out those hoping and waiting for others to fall, because they refuse to climb the cliff in the first place.

Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

Why go to those enjoying the pleasure of being part clean and part filthy, in order to become wholly clean? That doesn't make any sense at all. I already know how to be unclean, and don't need any help from part timers.

 

[bbyrd009]

If I fall off the cliff, and want to climb it again, then I certainly won't be seeking out those hoping and waiting for others to fall, because they refuse to climb the cliff in the first place.

well, i meant a proverbial cliff, before you start wrestling? Prolly neednt concern you, i guess
ok have a good weekend Rob

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yet you know what all denominations believe. You try to tell me what I believe. Now you don’t respond to the previous post you just poison the well.

It’s not me who poisoned the well.....it was poisoned a very long time ago.....it’s the kind of poison that takes its imbibers into a slow and paralyzing spiritual death.

Your response above is really ironic when you consider that God does not see “denominations”...nor does he see the ‘lone rangers’ who have figured it all out for themselves, despite the fact that there are no others who share their “truth”.

Jesus said that the devil was going to sow seeds of a counterfeit “Christianity”(weeds) in the same field as he had sown the “wheat”. They were to “grow together” until the “harvest”. So the true wheat are there in the world....we just have to identify them. HOW? "By their fruits" or by the kind of people they are.

But how do you identify a counterfeit? Do you have to examine every counterfeit in order to know that they are fake? NO! All you need to know is what the genuine article looks like and compare......the fakes will become obvious. They will often have the same flaws because they are all made by the same counterfeiter.

We don’t have to know what every denomination teaches because the very fact that they are all different proves that they are not genuine. There is but one truth, not many versions of it.....and we will never find it unless we receive an invitation from the Father. (John 6:44; 65)

Those who are ‘deluded’ will not be corrected if their hearts are set on cherishing false beliefs. They don’t see the truth as the truth because it doesn’t fit in with what their hearts want to believe.
2 Thess 2:4
"Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it [Christ's return] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction"....

The apostasy happened but Christendom does not acknowledge it. The "man of lawlessness" was never revealed to them because he was present in their ranks.
The 'falling away from the truth' was starting at the end of the first century but was restrained by the presence of the apostles.

"And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thess 2:6-12)

Once the apostles died, the weeds took over.

At this late stage in man’s history, in “the final part of the days”, Jesus foretold that he would appoint a “faithful slave” who would provide spiritual “food” to his true disciples “at the proper time”. (Matt 24:45)
These are the true Christians who are out preaching and teaching and baptizing, in obedience to Christ’s instructions. (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20) No matter what nation they reside in, they have to unitedly be “no part of the world”.....no part of its corrupt politics....it’s greedy commercialism....or its hypocritical religions. They are to reject its violence and immorality by not practicing it themselves, or condoning it in others, or choosing as entertainment, things that God condemns.

The difference between the “wheat and the weeds” becomes very obvious in this “time of the end”....they do not resemble one another at all......Those "saved" are a hated but united minority....not a bickering, disunited majority. (Matt 7:13-14; John 15:18-21)

 

[RLT63]

It’s not me who poisoned the well.....it was poisoned a very long time ago.....it’s the kind of poison that takes its imbibers into a slow and paralyzing spiritual death.

Your response above is really ironic when you consider that God does not see “denominations”...nor does he see the ‘lone rangers’ who have figured it all out for themselves, despite the fact that there are no others who share their “truth”.

Jesus said that the devil was going to sow seeds of a counterfeit “Christianity”(weeds) in the same field as he had sown the “wheat”. They were to “grow together” until the “harvest”. So the true wheat are there in the world....we just have to identify them. HOW? "By their fruits" or by the kind of people they are.

But how do you identify a counterfeit? Do you have to examine every counterfeit in order to know that they are fake? NO! All you need to know is what the genuine article looks like and compare......the fakes will become obvious. They will often have the same flaws because they are all made by the same counterfeiter.

We don’t have to know what every denomination teaches because the very fact that they are all different proves that they are not genuine. There is but one truth, not many versions of it.....and we will never find it unless we receive an invitation from the Father. (John 6:44; 65)

Those who are ‘deluded’ will not be corrected if their hearts are set on cherishing false beliefs. They don’t see the truth as the truth because it doesn’t fit in with what their hearts want to believe.
2 Thess 2:4
"Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it [Christ's return] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction"....

The apostasy happened but Christendom does not acknowledge it. The "man of lawlessness" was never revealed to them because he was present in their ranks.
The 'falling away from the truth' was starting at the end of the first century but was restrained by the presence of the apostles.

"And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thess 2:6-12)

Once the apostles died, the weeds took over.

At this late stage in man’s history, in “the final part of the days”, Jesus foretold that he would appoint a “faithful slave” who would provide spiritual “food” to his true disciples “at the proper time”. (Matt 24:45)
These are the true Christians who are out preaching and teaching and baptizing, in obedience to Christ’s instructions. (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20) No matter what nation they reside in, they have to unitedly be “no part of the world”.....no part of its corrupt politics....it’s greedy commercialism....or its hypocritical religions. They are to reject its violence and immorality by not practicing it themselves, or condoning it in others, or choosing as entertainment, things that God condemns.

The difference between the “wheat and the weeds” becomes very obvious in this “time of the end”....they do not resemble one another at all......Those "saved" are a hated but united minority....not a bickering, disunited majority. (Matt 7:13-14; John 15:18-21)

2Th 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; The Antichrist has not been revealed. The restrainer is the Holy Spirit. When he is taken out of the way the tribulation will begin. First you say all of Christendom teaches the same things now you say the fact that they teach different things shows that they’re wrong. JWs teach something different and it’s not “The Truth” I hope God forgives you for your errors.

 

[Aunty Jane]

2Th 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; The Antichrist has not been revealed. The restrainer is the Holy Spirit. When he is taken out of the way the tribulation will begin. First you say all of Christendom teaches the same things now you say the fact that they teach different things shows that they’re wrong. JWs teach something different and it’s not “The Truth” I hope God forgives you for your errors.

As I have said many times, we will all find out soon enough.....you don’t have to believe me, but at the judgment, we will all believe him....some in ways they are not expecting.....
Christendom shares the same core of false teachings....but bickers about everything else. Your comprehension seem to wander off on its own tangent as if you have not at all understood what I have said to you. That happens when ones fingers are firmly planted in one’s ears.

The antichrist was manifested a long time ago.....the word in Greek [an·tiʹkhri·stos] means “against (or instead of) Christ.” So men substituted a different Christ to the one who came as God’s son. It happened very early in the piece and ever so gradually was introduced into “church” doctrine, and yet it was something the scriptures never taught.

1 John 2:18 states: “Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour.”
John’s statement shows that there are many individual antichrists, some who manifested back then, though all together they may form a composite person designated “the antichrist.” (2 John :7)

The antichrist is not a new entity....he is alive and dwelling in a church system that has led people down a road that they have no idea, is a dead end.
As long as God has existed, his Holy Spirit has never been “out of the way”...it has always been operative.

The “restraint” of the apostles lasted until the last contribution of the Christian scriptures were written by John at the close of the first century. (His Revelation and last three letters) When John passed away, the restraint was gone.....history tells the story of the apostasy that followed. Christendom is the result of that apostasy. Those who introduced and substituted a different “Christ” are the Antichrist.

 

[Waiting on him]

At present we are trying to see if Hell believers can prove their understanding from the OT - so far we can establish its not in Genesis and possibly the first five books.

This concept of hell is nowhere in the entirety of scripture it was a work of fiction written by Donte in the 1300s. The Catholics grabbed it up very quickly, as they saw it was a money maker!

 

[RLT63]

As I have said many times, we will all find out soon enough.....you don’t have to believe me, but at the judgment, we will all believe him....some in ways they are not expecting.....
Christendom shares the same core of false teachings....but bickers about everything else. Your comprehension seem to wander off on its own tangent as if you have not at all understood what I have said to you. That happens when ones fingers are firmly planted in one’s ears.

The antichrist was manifested a long time ago.....the word in Greek [an·tiʹkhri·stos] means “against (or instead of) Christ.” So men substituted a different Christ to the one who came as God’s son. It happened very early in the piece and ever so gradually was introduced into “church” doctrine, and yet it was something the scriptures never taught.

1 John 2:18 states: “Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour.”
John’s statement shows that there are many individual antichrists, some who manifested back then, though all together they may form a composite person designated “the antichrist.” (2 John :7)

The antichrist is not a new entity....he is alive and dwelling in a church system that has led people down a road that they have no idea, is a dead end.
As long as God has existed, his Holy Spirit has never been “out of the way”...it has always been operative.

The “restraint” of the apostles lasted until the last contribution of the Christian scriptures were written by John at the close of the first century. (His Revelation and last three letters) When John passed away, the restraint was gone.....history tells the story of the apostasy that followed. Christendom is the result of that apostasy. Those who introduced and substituted a different “Christ” are the Antichrist.

First Christ will remove all born-again believers from the earth in an event known as the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-54). At the judgment seat of Christ, these believers will be rewarded for good works and faithful service during their time on earth or will lose rewards, but not eternal life, for lack of service and obedience (1 Corinthians 3:11-15; 2 Corinthians 5:10).

The Antichrist (the beast) will come into power and will sign a covenant with Israel for seven years (Daniel 9:27). This seven-year period of time is known as the “tribulation.” During the tribulation, there will be terrible wars, famines, plagues, and natural disasters. God will be pouring out His wrath against sin, evil, and wickedness. The tribulation will include the appearance of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse, and the seven seal, trumpet, and bowl judgments.

About halfway through the seven years, the Antichrist will break the peace covenant with Israel and make war against it. The Antichrist will commit “the abomination of desolation” and set up an image of himself to be worshiped in the Jerusalem temple (Daniel 9:27; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-10), which will have been rebuilt. The second half of the tribulation is known as “the great tribulation” (Revelation 7:14) and “the time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jeremiah 30:7).

At the end of the seven-year tribulation, the Antichrist will launch a final attack on Jerusalem, culminating in the battle of Armageddon. Jesus Christ will return, destroy the Antichrist and his armies, and cast them into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:11-21). Christ will then bind Satan in the Abyss for 1,000 years and He will rule His earthly kingdom for this thousand-year period (Revelation 20:1-6).

At the end of the thousand years, Satan will be released, defeated again, and then cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:7-10) for eternity. Christ then judges all unbelievers (Revelation 20:10-15) at the great white throne judgment, casting them all into the lake of fire. Christ will then usher in a new heaven and new earth and the New Jerusalem—the eternal dwelling place of believers. There will be no more sin, sorrow, or death (Revelation 21–22). (Source Got Questions).

 

[RLT63]

First Christ will remove all born-again believers from the earth in an event known as the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-54). At the judgment seat of Christ, these believers will be rewarded for good works and faithful service during their time on earth or will lose rewards, but not eternal life, for lack of service and obedience (1 Corinthians 3:11-15; 2 Corinthians 5:10).

The Antichrist (the beast) will come into power and will sign a covenant with Israel for seven years (Daniel 9:27). This seven-year period of time is known as the “tribulation.” During the tribulation, there will be terrible wars, famines, plagues, and natural disasters. God will be pouring out His wrath against sin, evil, and wickedness. The tribulation will include the appearance of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse, and the seven seal, trumpet, and bowl judgments.

About halfway through the seven years, the Antichrist will break the peace covenant with Israel and make war against it. The Antichrist will commit “the abomination of desolation” and set up an image of himself to be worshiped in the Jerusalem temple (Daniel 9:27; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-10), which will have been rebuilt. The second half of the tribulation is known as “the great tribulation” (Revelation 7:14) and “the time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jeremiah 30:7).

At the end of the seven-year tribulation, the Antichrist will launch a final attack on Jerusalem, culminating in the battle of Armageddon. Jesus Christ will return, destroy the Antichrist and his armies, and cast them into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:11-21). Christ will then bind Satan in the Abyss for 1,000 years and He will rule His earthly kingdom for this thousand-year period (Revelation 20:1-6).

At the end of the thousand years, Satan will be released, defeated again, and then cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:7-10) for eternity. Christ then judges all unbelievers (Revelation 20:10-15) at the great white throne judgment, casting them all into the lake of fire. Christ will then usher in a new heaven and new earth and the New Jerusalem—the eternal dwelling place of believers. There will be no more sin, sorrow, or death (Revelation 21–22). (Source Got Questions).

There is much speculation about the identity of the Antichrist. Some of the more popular targets are Vladimir Putin, Prince William, and Pope Francis I. In the United States, former Presidents Barack Obama and Donald Trump are the most frequent targets. So, who is the Antichrist, and how will we recognize him?

The Bible really does not say anything specific about where the Antichrist will come from. Many Bible scholars speculate that he will come from a confederacy of ten nations and/or a reborn Roman empire (Daniel 7:24-25; Revelation 17:7). Others see him as having to be a Jew in order to claim to be the Messiah. It is all just speculation since the Bible does not specifically say where the Antichrist will come from or what ethnicity he will be. One day, the Antichrist will be revealed. Second Thessalonians 2:3-4 tells us how we will recognize the Antichrist: “don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.”

It is likely that most people who are alive when the Antichrist is revealed will be very surprised at his identity. The Antichrist may or may not be alive today. Martin Luther was convinced that the pope in his time was the Antichrist. During the 1940s, many believed Adolph Hitler was the Antichrist. Others who have lived in the past few hundred years have been equally sure as to the identity of the Antichrist. So far, they have all been incorrect. We should put the speculations behind us and focus on what the Bible actually says about the Antichrist. Revelation 13:5-8 declares, “The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.” (Source: Got Questions)

 

[RLT63]

There is much speculation about the identity of the Antichrist. Some of the more popular targets are Vladimir Putin, Prince William, and Pope Francis I. In the United States, former Presidents Barack Obama and Donald Trump are the most frequent targets. So, who is the Antichrist, and how will we recognize him?

The Bible really does not say anything specific about where the Antichrist will come from. Many Bible scholars speculate that he will come from a confederacy of ten nations and/or a reborn Roman empire (Daniel 7:24-25; Revelation 17:7). Others see him as having to be a Jew in order to claim to be the Messiah. It is all just speculation since the Bible does not specifically say where the Antichrist will come from or what ethnicity he will be. One day, the Antichrist will be revealed. Second Thessalonians 2:3-4 tells us how we will recognize the Antichrist: “don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.”

It is likely that most people who are alive when the Antichrist is revealed will be very surprised at his identity. The Antichrist may or may not be alive today. Martin Luther was convinced that the pope in his time was the Antichrist. During the 1940s, many believed Adolph Hitler was the Antichrist. Others who have lived in the past few hundred years have been equally sure as to the identity of the Antichrist. So far, they have all been incorrect. We should put the speculations behind us and focus on what the Bible actually says about the Antichrist. Revelation 13:5-8 declares, “The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.” (Source: Got Questions)

The word rapture does not occur in the Bible. The term comes from a Latin word meaning “a carrying off, a transport, or a snatching away.” The concept of the “carrying off” or the rapture of the church is clearly taught in Scripture.

The rapture of the church is the event in which God “snatches away” all believers from the earth in order to make way for His righteous judgment to be poured out on the earth during the tribulation period. The rapture is described primarily in 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50–54. God will resurrect all believers who have died, give them glorified bodies, and take them from the earth, along with all living believers, who will also be given glorified bodies at that time. “For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17).

The rapture will involve an instantaneous transformation of our bodies to fit us for eternity. “We know that when he [Christ] appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2). The rapture is to be distinguished from the second coming. At the rapture, the Lord comes “in the clouds” to meet us “in the air” (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, the Lord descends all the way to the earth to stand on the Mount of Olives, resulting in a great earthquake followed by a defeat of God’s enemies (Zechariah 14:3–4).

The doctrine of the rapture was not taught in the Old Testament, which is why Paul calls it a “mystery” now revealed: “Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” (1 Corinthians 15:51–52).

The rapture of the church is a glorious event we should all be longing for. We will finally be free from sin. We will be in God’s presence forever. There is far too much debate over the meaning and scope of the rapture. This is not God’s intent. Rather, the rapture should be a comforting doctrine full of hope; God wants us to “encourage each other with these words” (1 Thessalonians 4:18). (Source: Got Questions)

 

[RLT63]

The word rapture does not occur in the Bible. The term comes from a Latin word meaning “a carrying off, a transport, or a snatching away.” The concept of the “carrying off” or the rapture of the church is clearly taught in Scripture.

The rapture of the church is the event in which God “snatches away” all believers from the earth in order to make way for His righteous judgment to be poured out on the earth during the tribulation period. The rapture is described primarily in 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50–54. God will resurrect all believers who have died, give them glorified bodies, and take them from the earth, along with all living believers, who will also be given glorified bodies at that time. “For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17).

The rapture will involve an instantaneous transformation of our bodies to fit us for eternity. “We know that when he [Christ] appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2). The rapture is to be distinguished from the second coming. At the rapture, the Lord comes “in the clouds” to meet us “in the air” (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, the Lord descends all the way to the earth to stand on the Mount of Olives, resulting in a great earthquake followed by a defeat of God’s enemies (Zechariah 14:3–4).

The doctrine of the rapture was not taught in the Old Testament, which is why Paul calls it a “mystery” now revealed: “Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” (1 Corinthians 15:51–52).

The rapture of the church is a glorious event we should all be longing for. We will finally be free from sin. We will be in God’s presence forever. There is far too much debate over the meaning and scope of the rapture. This is not God’s intent. Rather, the rapture should be a comforting doctrine full of hope; God wants us to “encourage each other with these words” (1 Thessalonians 4:18). (Source: Got Questions)

Eschatology of Jehovah's Witnesses​

Article Talk

• Language
• Watch
• Edit

The eschatology of Jehovah's Witnesses is central to their religious beliefs. They believe that Jesus Christhas been ruling in heaven as king since 1914, a date they believe was prophesied in Scripture, and that after that time a period of cleansing occurred, resulting in God's selection of the Bible Students associated with Charles Taze Russell to be his people in 1919. They believe the destruction of those who reject their message[1] and thus willfully refuse to obey God[2][3]will shortly take place at Armageddon, ensuring that the beginning of the new earthly society will be composed of willing subjects of that kingdom.
The group's doctrines surrounding 1914 are the legacy of a series of emphatic claims regarding the years 1799,[4] 1874,[4] 1878,[5] 1914,[6]1918[7] and 1925[8] made in the Watch Tower Society's publications between 1879 and 1924. Claims about the significance of those years, including the presence of Jesus Christ, the beginning of the "last days", the destruction of worldly governments and the earthly resurrection of Jewish patriarchs, were successively abandoned.[9] In 1922 the society's principal journal, Watch Tower, described its chronology as "no stronger than its weakest link", but also claimed the chronological relationships to be "of divine origin and divinely corroborated...in a class by itself, absolutely and unqualifiedly correct"[10]and "indisputable facts",[4] while repudiation of Russell's teachings was described as "equivalent to a repudiation of the Lord".[11]
The Watch Tower Society has stated that its early leaders promoted "incomplete, even inaccurate concepts".[12] The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses says that, unlike Old Testament prophets, its interpretations of the Bible are not inspired or infallible.[13][14][15] Witness publications say that Bible prophecies can be fully understood only after their fulfillment, citing examples of biblical figures who did not understand the meaning of prophecies they received. Watch Tower publications often cite Proverbs 4:18, "The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established" (NWT) to support their view that there would be an increase in knowledge during "the time of the end", as mentioned in Daniel 12:4. Jehovah's Witnesses state that this increase in knowledge needs adjustments. Watch Tower publications also say that unfulfilled expectations are partly due to eagerness for God's Kingdom and that they do not call their core beliefs into question. (Wikipedia)

 

[The Learner]

I got it from here. What Jehovah's Witnesses Believe

I wish that secondary source gave the primary source.

 

[The Learner]

start at

• #902

 

[RLT63]

I wish that secondary source gave the primary source.

I couldn’t find it in Google searches

 

[RLT63]

View attachment 29966
And of course Catholics know what Jehovah's Witnesses believe better than JW's do....

You crack me up ....that's like asking the Pharisees what they thought of Jesus.....

But you know what everyone else believes better than we do. (Supposedly)

 

[Waiting on him]

About halfway through the seven years, the Antichrist will break the peace covenant with Israel and make war against it. The Antichrist will commit “the abomination of desolation” and set up an image of himself to be worshiped in the Jerusalem temple (Daniel 9:27; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-10), which will have been rebuilt. The second half of the tribulation is known as “the great tribulation” (Revelation 7:14) and “the time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jeremiah 30:7).

Jesus tells his four disciples in Matthew 24 that they will witness the abomination of desolation. Why would have lied to them about that?

 

[Aunty Jane]

@RLT63 your desperation is evident.....and you are free to believe all of that if you wish.....but please understand that there is no “rapture” ever mentioned in the Bible. That is a word invented by Christendom.

During Christ’s “presence” all of his elect were to be resurrected....those who died last were not to be resurrected before all of the first ones chosen, who had been “sleeping” in their graves since the first century. They were not resurrected before Christ was installed as King, foreseen by Daniel some 500 years before Christ came into the world as Messiah. (Daniel 7:13-14)

David prophesied that Messiah (his Lord) was to sit at God’s right hand “until” his enemies were made to be “a stool for his feet”. (Psalm 110:1-2) His rulership was to begin “in the midst of his enemies”. So instead of seeing Christ coming on the clouds to destroy his enemies, it shows that he will be “present” way before that, overseeing the work that he gave his disciples to do. (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20)

And according to people’s response to their preaching, he will be observing who are behaving as “sheep” and who, like “goats”, would be treating his disciples in the same way as the Pharisees and those influenced by them, treated them in the first century.....in the same way that people treated Noah and scorned his message. (Matt 24:37-39)
Judaism and Christendom are mirror images of one another....both corrupted by the same entity. Both masquerading as the true religion, but hopelessly divided in their apostasy. Both connected to Jesus in the same way.
History is repeating, and no one seems to notice.

God has everything very carefully planned, including the timing of all events. So, why did it take thousands of years for Christ to come to earth as a human after Adam threw all his children under the bus? Why has it taken almost 2,000 years for Christ to return? Do you know?

Look at history and see that time is actually our greatest enemy....given enough time, our common enemy, who has been operative since our beginning, can ever so gradually turn truth into lies, and lies into truth.....but for God’s true worshippers, time will not alter his truth. That is why we have a Bible....the truth that time cannot alter....unless people want it to....or can be convinced that there is no alteration.
Deception is deception....isn’t it? Do the deceived know that they are until it’s too late?

Is the “Christianity” that people accept and practice today, the same as the one Christ began? We first have to ask, “which one”. Whose word do you take for how to determine whose got it right? How much time has the devil had to play with? Who gets to find the diamond in the pile of broken glass? Only those to whom God chooses to reveal his truth. (John 6:44; 65)
We will all find that out very soon as we watch the world falling apart at the seams....and understand why God has allowed us all to experience the greatest object lesson we will ever be taught.

 

[RLT63]

Jesus tells his four disciples in Matthew 24 that they will witness the abomination of desolation. Why would have lied to them about that?

Daniel’s prophecies about the abomination of desolation seemed to have at least a partial fulfillment in 167 BC when a Greek ruler by the name of Antiochus IV desecrated the temple in Jerusalem. Antiochus called himself “Epiphanies” (“illustrious one” or “god manifest”). He set up an altar to Zeus over the altar of burnt offering, and he sacrificed a pig on the altar. Antiochus went even further in his atrocities, slaughtering a great number of the Jews and selling others into slavery. And he issued decrees forbidding circumcision and requiring Jews to sacrifice to pagan gods and eat pig meat.

What Antiochus did certainly qualifies as an abomination, but it was not a complete fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Antiochus Epiphanies did not enter a covenant with Israel for seven years, for example. And in Matthew 24Jesus, speaking some 200 years after Antiochus’s evil actions, spoke of Daniel’s prophecy as having a still future fulfillment.

The question then becomes, when, after Jesus’ day, was the abomination of desolation prophecy fulfilled? Or are we still waiting for a fulfillment? The preterist view is that Jesus’ warning in Matthew 24:15 concerned events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. In this view, the abomination of desolation probably occurred during the Roman occupation of Jerusalem when the Roman army brought their heathen images and standards into the temple courts.

We take the futurist view, which sees the abomination of desolation prophecy as still future. In our view, Jesus was referring to the Antichrist who, in the end times, will establish a covenant with Israel for seven years and then break it by doing something similar to what Antiochus Epiphanies did in the temple. The sacrilegious object Jesus called “the abomination of desolation” could be the “image of the beast” that the Antichrist’s right-hand man, the false prophet, will order to be set up and worshiped (Revelation 13:14). Of course, for Matthew 24:15 to be yet future, the temple in Jerusalem will have to be rebuilt before the tribulation begins. (Source: Got Questions)

 

[Waiting on him]

Daniel’s prophecies about the abomination of desolation seemed to have at least a partial fulfillment in 167 BC when a Greek ruler by the name of Antiochus IV desecrated the temple in Jerusalem. Antiochus called himself “Epiphanies” (“illustrious one” or “god manifest”). He set up an altar to Zeus over the altar of burnt offering, and he sacrificed a pig on the altar. Antiochus went even further in his atrocities, slaughtering a great number of the Jews and selling others into slavery. And he issued decrees forbidding circumcision and requiring Jews to sacrifice to pagan gods and eat pig meat.

What Antiochus did certainly qualifies as an abomination, but it was not a complete fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Antiochus Epiphanies did not enter a covenant with Israel for seven years, for example. And in Matthew 24Jesus, speaking some 200 years after Antiochus’s evil actions, spoke of Daniel’s prophecy as having a still future fulfillment.

The question then becomes, when, after Jesus’ day, was the abomination of desolation prophecy fulfilled? Or are we still waiting for a fulfillment? The preterist view is that Jesus’ warning in Matthew 24:15 concerned events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. In this view, the abomination of desolation probably occurred during the Roman occupation of Jerusalem when the Roman army brought their heathen images and standards into the temple courts.

We take the futurist view, which sees the abomination of desolation prophecy as still future. In our view, Jesus was referring to the Antichrist who, in the end times, will establish a covenant with Israel for seven years and then break it by doing something similar to what Antiochus Epiphanies did in the temple. The sacrilegious object Jesus called “the abomination of desolation” could be the “image of the beast” that the Antichrist’s right-hand man, the false prophet, will order to be set up and worshiped (Revelation 13:14). Of course, for Matthew 24:15 to be yet future, the temple in Jerusalem will have to be rebuilt before the tribulation begins. (Source: Got Questions)

It’ll take more than a rebuilt temple, all the synagogues, the seven Churches of Asia Minor. Etc,,,,….