The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[Spiritual Israelite]

Really? And how do you measure me against yourself? Do I lack spiritual discernment because we disagree? I don't think so.

If you can't discern that Jesus is God despite how scripture teaches that explicitly, then I'm not sure what you can discern. I'm not interesting in talking to you anymore about Christian end times doctrine. I'd rather talk to Christians about that. Thanks, anyway.

 

[WPM]

I don't think he is capable of this. But, it would be nice if he at least tried. I think he knows if he tried it would expose his false teaching. So, he doesn't even try. No matter what we do, we can't get one single pretrib to exegete any scripture. That is quite telling.

Totally agree. I truly believe that they know what we know. They know they have nothing. But, pride, emotions or tradition causes them to hold on to what they have been taught.

 

[The Light]

I don't think he is capable of this. But, it would be nice if he at least tried. I think he knows if he tried it would expose his false teaching. So, he doesn't even try. No matter what we do, we can't get one single pretrib to exegete any scripture. That is quite telling.

Oh boy. Deny, deny, deny. Pretend it never happened. That's why there are 5 foolish.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Oh, so, for any given verse or passage, we can't use other scripture to help us interpret it?

No, not in the way that you and WPM do it.

We should interpret every verse in isolation from other scripture? That's your approach?

Yes, that's the only way to do it. What you are doing is different. You say you're interpreting scripture with scripture, but instead, you're imposing your understanding of one passage onto another, which obscures the meaning of the second passage. Your method does not allow the second passage to correct your incorrect interpretation of the first passage, or in some cases, your interpretive method doesn't take into account that the two passages might be making distinct points.

 

[CadyandZoe]

If you can't discern that Jesus is God despite how scripture teaches that explicitly, then I'm not sure what you can discern. I'm not interesting in talking to you anymore about Christian end times doctrine. I'd rather talk to Christians about that. Thanks, anyway.

I didn't deny that Jesus is God. Why do you lie about me?

 

[Douggg]

LOL. Talk about butchering Scripture! Pretrib is becoming more farcical by the moment. The reality is, you see what we see: there is one final future coming of the lord that is absolutely climatic. No one survives it!

So how can Amil claim that the rapture is Matthew 24:31 after Jesus's Second Coming in Matthew 24:30b ?

After Jesus returns in Matthew 24:30b, He sends out His angels to gather the elect.

How can anyone be gathered, if everyone is dead ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Who are these?

Imaginary people. He believes so many things that can't be supported by scripture. He thinks doctrine is taught in single verses with no other scripture to support it. It's really unbelievable.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I didn't deny that Jesus is God. Why do you lie about me?

LOL. You have denied that many times. Did you just now change your mind? You have denied the deity of Christ and you know it. Why are you lying about me supposedly lying? What is wrong with you?

Do you believe that Jesus is God and is eternal and created all things?

 

[WPM]

"Doug, did Jesus not indicate that he bound Satan long ago, as the following passage shows? Yes or no?"

Jesus was talking about His binding Satan to cast out devils, demonstrating Jesus's power over Satan. Not that Satan has been bound in the general sense from being no longer active. Satan is still active. Satan goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

But that is what Jesus said. Why do you add your own invented words all the time to dilute the meaning of His words?

The word deo nowhere suggests "inactivity." That is your own personal interpretation in order to support your beliefs.

Society has many ways of restraining individuals that do not insinuate immobility.

Curfew laws are sometimes used by society to prohibit or limit people’s right of movement. It involves an order specifying a time during which certain regulations apply. It prevents people from doing particularly things, going particular places at particular times. This can be applied to an individual who is a danger to society. It can come from public authorities or military forces to protect society from potential dangers or civil unrest. It can also be imposed at times of disasters to maintain a level of order and public safety.

Restraining orders, also called protection orders, are issued by the court and define what an abuser can do or not do. They delineate where a person can go or not go. These orders are designed to stop a person harming another person. These do not imitate inactivity, but, rather, restrained activity. While these are evasive, restrict and draconian, they do not prevent movement, they simply limit it. It also doesn’t guarantee that wrongs can occur during these times. It simply sets the boundaries that people must abide by.

Many criminals have electronic markers that monitor their movements. And enforce very carefully defined boundaries they can operate within. To the human eye this person may seem to have freedom, but it is very much limited freedom.

 

[WPM]

"Doug, did Jesus not indicate that he bound Satan long ago, as the following passage shows? Yes or no?"

Jesus was talking about His binding Satan to cast out devils, demonstrating Jesus's power over Satan. Not that Satan has been bound in the general sense from being no longer active. Satan is still active. Satan goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

Premillennialists have little difficulty accepting the spiritual reality that the wicked today are bound by spiritual chains of sin and are imprisoned by their own lusts in Satan’s prison and yet are able to freely operate physically on this earth. One wonders why they should then struggle with the concept of the spiritual binding of spiritual beings. Why would they dismiss the fact that the kingdom of darkness has been placed in such chains since the first advent?

It is wrong to believe that Revelation 20 is a literal depiction describing the devil being physically chained, tossed into a physical abyss, and physically sealed so that he cannot deceive the nations anymore and yet still walk about this earth seeking whom he may devour. Amils don’t accept that this is physical language neither do they believe that spirits are physically chained and that they can be restrained by a literal prison. They believe that they are spiritually chained in a spiritual prison.

So, were the unsaved Gentiles literal "prisoners" walking about in this world in literal physical "chains" confined to a literal physical "prison" before the cross?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So how can Amil claim that the rapture is Matthew 24:31 after Jesus's Second Coming in Matthew 24:30b ?

After Jesus returns in Matthew 24:30b, He sends out his angels to gather the elect.

How can anyone be gathered, if everyone is dead ?

What are you even talking about, Doug? Who said everyone will be dead at that point? The dead in Christ will be resurrected and they, along with those who are alive and remain, will be gathered to Christ. Very simple. You don't even need a chart to understand this.

 

[WPM]

Oh boy. Deny, deny, deny. Pretend it never happened. That's there are 5 foolish.

What is your argument here?

 

[The Light]

What difference does that make as to how many times the word is translated as "great" compared to "many"? Most words have multiple definitions. Is that a hard concept for you to understand?

Oh so in other words you were wrong. It seemed to make a GREAT deal of difference when you were claiming that great was the proper translation.

And great isn't all.

The word is used a great number of times in scripture, so it's not reasonable for me to take the time to count every time it's used.

And yet you were able to claim that it was used more times than many. I'll give you a hint. It's not even close. How is it that every time you guy claim something it can be proven as FALSE.

And then you run around and pretend it didn't happen and pat each other on the back. You should be seeking the truth not making up false nonsense to prove a false doctrine.

And, as I pointed out, the word does NOT mean "many, but not all". Why are you too stubborn to admit that?

I know the difference between many and all. If you don't try school.

Exodus 5:4 And the king of Egypt said unto them, Wherefore do ye, Moses and Aaron, let the people from their works? get you unto your burdens. 5 And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now are many (rab), and ye make them rest from their burdens.

Is this talking about many, but not all of the Israelite people in Egypt or is it referring to all of them, of which there were "many"?

It is a simple statement. Your people are many. Not so hard to understand.

LOL. You will do ANYTHING to avoid honestly addressing the points I'm making. The word "many" was used in referencing to the number of days he soujourned and not to the number of days he lived and you know it. So, did it refer to many, but not all of the days he sojourned or all of them? Your dishonesty here is disturbing. Why are you afraid to deal with scripture honestly? You'd rather just believe what you want to believe?

Mm. Did he sojourn many days in that land or did he sojourn all his days in that land.

You guys work hard to fool yourselves. Why not try seeking the truth. He who seeks finds. It doesn't appear you want the truth.

 

[Douggg]

If Gog/Magog happens and immediately after it a Jewish messiah confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant - will Amil then admit that Amils are wrong ?

 

[WPM]

Really? And how do you measure me against yourself? Do I lack spiritual discernment because we disagree? I don't think so.

Did I claim to have authority? No. If what I say is true, then it should be believed. That's all there is to it. But my denial of the deity of Christ is based on scripture and common sense. Does the Bible teach that Christ died for your sins? If Yes, then Christ is not a deity because a deity can't die.


If an argument is based on premise 'X' and premise 'X' is false the argument is not valid.

It depends on how you define "Christian" doesn't it?

How so? How is quoting a Bible passage grasping at straws?

I did say Jesus is God didn't I?


Wow, you are way off about that. I never said that at all.

I saw what you did. You dodged the issue. You began a hominem attach against me and you are too ashamed to admit it. Right?

Are you their mom?

So you don't trust others with Spiritual discernment?

Is Jesus the creator?

 

[The Light]

Scripture that says this?

Are they Christians? Did they have a chance to accept or reject Christ.

You never answered my question about........... are those that do good Christians?

 

[MA2444]

You are grasping at straws here. This shows that you do not know God. God would never allow anyone else but Himself to be worshiped.

Exodus 34:14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

In your view, Jesus is a god, but not God. Yet, God says "do not worship any other god". You are deceived.

What a liar you are. And judging by your response, of course you did not even read or exegete Hebrews 1:1-4 or else you couldn't have said what you did.

So how about you you exegete those verses in Hebrews for us.

 

[The Light]

If Gog/Magog happens and immediately after it a Jewish messiah confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant - will Amil then admit that Amils are wrong ?

Will they admit they are wrong? You had me rolling. You could prove them wrong a dozen times a day by the word of God and they would deny, deny, deny, and then accuse you of not answering them.

That's why there are 5 foolish.

 

[The Light]

Take one text at a time. Exegete it slowly. Show us your biblical support for a rapture of the Church followed by a tribulation period followed by 3rd coming? Put your cards where your mouth is.

I think I have done this enough, well, way more than enough. Tell you what, be happy to do it one more time if you go to your masters and tell them you will no longer be denying, denying and denying. Additionally when you are answered don't pretend it didn't happen.

Throw away the playbook.

 

[WPM]

Are they Christians? Did they have a chance to accept or reject Christ.

You never answered my question about........... are those that do good Christians?

LOL. So, you have nothing. All we are getting now are your invented imagination is.