Temples
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Hi dragonfly,dragonfly said:
Perhaps you did not mean it this way but, yes, the ancient way these things were understood is completely different from what the carnal western mindset has produced. Paul does not teach anything different from the understanding which was from the ancient times. The testimony of Stephen reveals the same thinking where he quotes from Isaiah 66:1-2, which passage of the prophet then reveals that this was of old time the mindset; that man is specifically designed to be the house or temple of his Creator so as to be in communion together as one with the Father.
Acts 7:47-51 KJV
47. But Solomon built him an house.
48. Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples [houses - ASV] made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49. Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
50. Hath not my hand made all these things?
51. Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
We must understand that there are two sets of "fathers", (concerning Acts 7:51) of which the Master speaks:
1) Those in the wilderness who ate only the purely physical manna found upon the desert floor and are DEAD.
2) Those in the wilderness who ate the supernal manna of every word proceeding from the mouth of God and LIVE (i.e. Moses).
Isaiah 66:1-5 KJV
1. Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2. For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3. He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
5. Hear the word of the Lord, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the Lord be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
This is speaking of Jesus son of David, the Seed that will not only build the temple, but establish the KINGDOM of God for a great time to come after David's passing.
1 Chron 17:11-17
11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.
12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.
13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
15 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.
16 And David the king came and sat before the LORD, and said, Who am I, O LORD God, and what is mine house, that thou hast brought me hitherto?
17 And yet this was a small thing in thine eyes, O God; for thou hast also spoken of thy servant's house for a great while to come, and hast regarded me according to the estate of a man of high degree, O LORD God.
KJV
Jesus speaking says:
Matt 12:42
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
KJV
Mark 10:47
47 And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out, and say, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
KJV
Matt 1:1
1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
KJV
Matt 21:9
9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
KJV
1 Chron 17:11-17
11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.
12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.
13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
15 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.
16 And David the king came and sat before the LORD, and said, Who am I, O LORD God, and what is mine house, that thou hast brought me hitherto?
17 And yet this was a small thing in thine eyes, O God; for thou hast also spoken of thy servant's house for a great while to come, and hast regarded me according to the estate of a man of high degree, O LORD God.
KJV
Jesus speaking says:
Matt 12:42
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
KJV
Mark 10:47
47 And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out, and say, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
KJV
Matt 1:1
1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
KJV
Matt 21:9
9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
KJV
Jacob_Rising said:
One must be willing to believe Paulos who was taught by the Revelation of Yeshua.
These are allegories and the women are the cities are the covenants as he says ~
Galatians 4:22-24 KJVdaq said:Ahhah to be clothed from on high with the Tabernacle of God . . . The City of the Great King, YHWH Tsabaoth!
------------------------------
Ezekiel 44:28 KJV
28. And it shall be unto them for an inheritance: I am their inheritance: and ye shall give them no possession in Israel:
I AM THEIR POSSESSION.
"Ye see how wise a lawgiver was Paulos" . . . :)
22. For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
The covenant woman of above concerns all of the tamiyd-continual holy things of our heavenly Father.
This allegory is likewise included in the famous "New Covenant" passage found in Jeremiah 31 ~
Jeremiah 31:20-22
20. Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.
21. Set thee up waymarks, make thee high heaps: set thine heart toward the highway, even the way which thou wentest: turn again, O virgin of Israel, turn again to these thy cities.
22. How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the Lord hath created a new thing in the earth, A nqebah-female shall compass a geber-warrior-man.
Behold, a new thing in the 'erets, a nqebah-female shall encompass a geber-warrior man.
Descending out of the heavens from God like a bride having been prepared for the adornment of her andri-man . . .
Luke 12:35-42 KJV
35. Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36. And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41. Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42. And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Watch! Stand fast in the faith, acquit yourselves as geber-warrior-men! (1 Corinthians 16:13) :)
Good post Daq, Thanks for those scriptures.
I have always thought that a woman will give birth to a full grown man, but you say,'' a warrior man?''
I'm gonna have to call my Jewish friend on that, that's interesting and it would make sense to me.
Daq, I know you from Christian forums, Have I seemed familiar to you?
You are the reason I came here.
Thanks for leading me here.
I have always thought that a woman will give birth to a full grown man, but you say,'' a warrior man?''
I'm gonna have to call my Jewish friend on that, that's interesting and it would make sense to me.
Daq, I know you from Christian forums, Have I seemed familiar to you?
You are the reason I came here.
Thanks for leading me here.
Yes, I do know who you are brother, and not just you but all the true brethren hunger for Truth. :)Jacob_Rising said:
As for the andres-sons there is a difference between a teknon-child and a huios-son; for a son is not fully become a son until he be taken up before the Father and put to the test, (no man puts an unproven stranger in charge of all his goods). So the heir, as long as he is a child, differs nothing from a servant, even though he might be lord of all; but is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the Father. :)
PS ~ You might ask your Jewish friend whether the wife is the body, the soul, or the spirit of the 'adam. :lol:
One must stay with the subject context Paul gave within 2 Thess.2 to know what kind of temple he was talking about. And it certainly is not the spiritual temple idea, for no false one can preside in nor corrupt the True Spiritual Temple of Christ Jesus, which is why... the True Spiritual Temple was not 'made with hands'. It was so no man could corrupt it.daq said:
Yet in 2 Thess.2 we see emphatically a false one coming to put himself in place of God sitting in a temple, which is corruption, but not of the True Spiritual Temple, but of a physical temple, pointing to a rebuilt physical temple in Jerusalem for the last days.
Devout Jews in Jerusalem are being fooled with that future rebuilding of another temple for the last days, because they have read OT Scripture about a final temple that is to be built there. But the Scripture says Christ, THE BRANCH will build it.
Zech 6:12-13
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
(KJV)
That is about a physical temple in Jerusalem for Christ's future Millennial reign, and it is outlined in the Ezekiel 40 thru 47 chapters. God's enemies know this and have apparently tricked many of Judah in Jerusalem to think to build it theirselves, which is their plan today since they already have all the materials ready to do it. Their seeking to do it instead of waiting for The BRANCH to do it when He comes is like how Sarah thought God needed a bit of help in producing Abraham a child in her old age, and instead gave her maidservant Hagar to go into Abraham. God did what He said He would do, Sarah bare a child, Isaac, in her old age. Likewise the Jews in Jerusalem should wait upon The LORD to return to build the temple in Jerusalem, but they are not going to wait.
And this how the 2 Thess.2 prophecy of that false one coming to sit in the temple in Jerusalem will be fulfilled, and many... will wrongly believe that one is Messiah having come, even of those Jews.
veteran said:
Ezekiel Temple: Temple of a Man
Joshua 5:13-15 KJVveteran said:
13. And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
14. And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord [Sar tsaba YHWH] am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
15. And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
Miyka'el Tsemach Tzedek
Jude 1:9 KJV
9. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Moses is the first High Priest under Torah and Joshua is the second:
Priesthood - Post#21-56
Zechariah 3:1-10 KJV
1. And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
2. And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
3. Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
4. And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
5. And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.
6. And the angel of the Lord protested unto Joshua, saying,
7. Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.
8. Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch.
9. For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
10. In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.
Joshua 24:22-27 KJV
22. And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the Lord, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses.
23. Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the Lord God of Israel.
24. And the people said unto Joshua, The Lord our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey.
25. So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and set them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem.
26. And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the Lord.
27. And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us; for it hath heard all the words of the Lord which he spake unto us: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.
The Stone of Joshua 24 is the Witness Stone of Joshua the High Priest.
The same is the Stone of Zechariah 3:9 which has the Seven Eyes.
The same Stone is the one whose name is The Branch ~ Yeshua.
Revelation 1:12-16 KJV
12. And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13. And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15. And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Revelation 1:20 KJV
20. The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Revelation 2:1 KJV
1. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Revelation 3:1 KJV
1. And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Revelation 4:5 KJV
5. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Revelation 5:6 KJV
6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
veteran said:
Yeshua disagrees with you concerning what carnal man does to the temple of God.
In fact he speaks the following warning ONLY to those who would be his disciples:
Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
Do you believe the above passage applies to yourself or do you not believe it?
The unclean spirit cast out is the prince of the power of the air that we formerly served.
The same is that "spirit of the world" which went out from you when you first believed.
The same is returning with all your old sins upon his head because he is your scapegoat.
Only if he was never cast out of you to begin with do you need not worry about his return.
Mark 13:37 KJV
37. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
Jacob_Rising said:
Once upon a kippur there was a priest of Elohim; a man which had not yet been revealed to his own, but was indeed being used of Elohim to work good works, healings, cures, good will, and peace toward all his brethren to the glory of Elohim. One day the priest of Elohim came into his own beloved city, and they brought to him a paralytic man, lying on a bed: and the priest of Elohim, seeing their faith, said unto the paralytic; "Teknon-child", (for he was not yet a huios-son of the kingdom) "be of good cheer; the sins of thee be aphiemi-sent away!" But hearing this saying there were certain of the scribes present, which said within themselves, "This man blasphemes", (for only the current High Priest of the city was vested with the power and authority from on high to send away the sins of the people, and that was only once in the year at the Great Day). So the priest of Elohim, knowing their thoughts, said to them; "Wherefore think ye ponerous things in your hearts? For which is easier, to say, The sins of thee be aphiemi-sent away? or to say, Arise, and walk? But so that you may know that the Son of man has power over the earth to aphiemi-send away sins", (then says he to the paralytic) "Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto the house of you!" And the paralytic man arose, cured, and departed to the house of Elohim to give thanks; but the day wherein this occurred was Shabbat, yet he took up his bed as the Commander of the Covenant had ordered. And as he approached nigh unto the temple the elders therefore said unto him that was cured, "It is Shabbat: it is not lawful for you to carry your bed." But the healed man answered them, saying, "He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk." Then they began to interrogate him, and said to him; "What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?" And he that was healed was unsure who it was; for the priest of Elohim had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place. But afterward the priest of Elohim found the cured man in the temple, and says to him, "Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee!"
And after two days it came to pass that there was a certain sect of talmidim that heard these words of the Master-Teacher, saying, "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee!" And they besought an answer from the Most High, by his Word, as to what this "worse thing" might concern; insomuch that they might know the signs. And the Most High sent a messenger to show unto them things to come; and the messenger brought into remembrance the words of the High Priest, which said unto the them, "If I with the Finger of Elohim cast out daimonion, no doubt the kingdom of Elohim is come upon you! When a strong armed man guards his palace, his goods are in peace: but when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he takes from him all his armor wherein he trusted, and divides his spoils. He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathers not with me scatters. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walks through dry-arid-desert places, seeking rest; and finding none, he says; I will return unto my house from whence I came out. And when he comes, he finds the house swept and put in order. Then goes he, and associates unto him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and having entered in, they dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first."
However, there were some of the talmidim which believed not this word, for they said unto themselves; "all of my sins are aphiemi-pardoned" yet those talmidim who believed this word said unto themselves, "all of my sins are aphiemi-sent away upon the head of my old man; but if they are sent away into the desert then they can return if I myself willfully continue in the sins of my old man", and so there was a division in the sect. :) "When your Torah observance falls short"
Matthew 9:2
2. And, behold, they brought to him a paralytic lying on a bed: and Yeshua seeing their faith said unto the paralytic; Teknon-Child, be of good cheer; the sins of thee be aphiemi-sent away!
Original Strong's Ref. #863
Romanized aphiemi
Pronounced af-ee'-ay-mee
from GSN0575 and hiemi (to send; an intensive form of eimi, to go); to send forth, in various applications (as follow):
KJV--cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let (alone, be, go, have), omit, put (send) away, remit, suffer, yield up.
That's a question that leaves the topic of discussion. Were my sins forgiven by Christ Jesus when I believed on The Father and His Son? Yes. Are they forgiven today when I repent and ask Him? Yes.daq said:
The link you provided about Ezekiel's temple attempts to turn a future prophecy that is to be literally fulfilled into some mystic treatise, which is not what God's Holy Writ is about.
Why do you think the orthodox Jews in Jerusalems are preparing to build another physical temple in Jerusalem today? Why are they also enlisting the Christian Churches to get on board with them on that today?
So you only believe Amos 3:7 when it suits your eschatology like so many who use it when they are about to make their own prognostications but in turn you discount the same when it comes to the Body of Messiah?veteran said:
Amos 3:7-8 KJV
7. Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
8. The lion hath roared, who will not fear? the Lord God hath spoken, who can but prophesy?
Hebrews 10:5-7 KJV
5. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared [GSN#2675 katartizo] me:
6. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7. Then said I, Lo, I come ( in the volume of the book it is written of me, ) to do thy will, O God.
Original Strong's Ref. # 2675
Romanized katartizo
Pronounced kat-ar-tid'-zo
from GSN2596 and a derivative of GSN0739; to complete thoroughly, i.e. repair (literally or figuratively) or adjust:
KJV--fit, frame, mend, (make) perfect(-ly join together), prepare, restore.
Where is it written in the volume of the Book that a body has been fitted-framed for Messiah?
Surely the Lord God will do nothing unless he first reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets, correct?
And did you forget that the Scripture clearly states that God dwells not in temples or houses made with hands?
Ezekiel 43:5-7 KJV
5. So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house.
6. And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
7. And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
So essentially you believe the Most High is to dwell in a building made with hands for eternity?
I care not what flesh minded men are planning to do with physical buildings so as to worship the One True God in falsehood according to the flesh. And, yes, I agree it is deception, but that does not mean that what they are doing fulfills anything written as concerning the future. Antichrists are legion and have been vexing men since the very beginning, (each one his own and in his own times). The topic of discussion is "TEMPLES" if you had not noticed and therefore everything said previously above pertains to the topic of this discussion because the man is the temple and was created to be so from the very beginning, (behold, he made them one but reserved the Spirit unto himself, Malachi 2:15 KJV). Have you not understood anything related in this thread? The MAN is the TEMPLE is the HOUSE. Perhaps the truth is more likely that you do not wish to answer the question put forward to you above? Either one believes the Word of the Father spoken through the Son or one ignores it to his own detriment. If you do not believe the Doctrines of the Teacher then why should you even bother with this topic to begin with? The Testimony of Yeshua is the Spirit of prophecy because the Father speaks through the Son.
Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
Did you happen to notice the word HOUSE in this passage?
Again, do you believe the above passage applies to yourself or do you not?
Ezekiel 43:10-12 KJV
10. Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11. And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.
12. This is the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.
Be ye holy, O ye temples, this is the law of the house!
The whole precinct upon the mountain top roundabout is now Qodesh Qadashiym! :)
Exodus 15:15-17 KJV
15. Then the dukes of Edom shall be amazed; the mighty men of Moab, trembling shall take hold upon them; all the inhabitants of Canaan shall melt away.
16. Fear and dread shall fall upon them; by the greatness of thine arm they shall be as still as a stone; till thy people pass over, O Lord, till the people pass over, which thou hast purchased.
17. Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance, in the place, O Lord, which thou hast made for thee to dwell in, in the Sanctuary, [HSN#4720 miqdash] O Lord, which thy hands have established.
Exodus 25:1-9 KJV
1. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2. Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take My offering.
3. And this is the offering which ye shall take of them; gold, and silver, and brass,
4. And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair,
5. And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood,
6. Oil for the light, spices for anointing oil, and for sweet incense,
7. Onyx stones, and stones to be set in the ephod, and in the breastplate.
8. And let them make me a sanctuary; [HSN#4720 miqdash] that I may dwell among them.
9. According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, [HSN#4908 mishkan] and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
Original Strong's Ref. #4720
Romanized miqdash
Pronounced mik-dawsh'
or miqqdash (Exo.15v17) {mik-ked-awsh'}; from HSN6942; a consecrated thing or place, especially, a palace, sanctuary (whether of Jehovah or of idols) or asylum:
KJV--chapel, hallowed part, holy place, sanctuary.
Original Strong's Ref. #4908
Romanized mishkan
Pronounced mish-kawn'
from HSN7931; a residence (including a shepherd's hut, the lair of animals, figuratively, the grave; also the Temple); specifically, the Tabernacle (properly, its wooden walls):
KJV--dwelleth, dwelling (place), habitation, tabernacle, tent.
"And let them make me a miqdash-sanctuary-chapel; that I may dwell among them. According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the mishkan-tabernacle-tent, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it."
The children of Israel are commanded to make for the Lord a miqdash-sanctuary-chapel and to make it according to the pattern of the mishkan-tabernacle with all of its holy vessels and tamiyd-continual holy things. The Father is the One who establishes our little miqdash-sanctuary-chapel by giving us through the Son all of the Testimony which we needed to do what he commands us to do. It is no different than when Noah was commanded to build the Ark and did what he was commanded to do so as to be saved:
Genesis 6:22 KJV
22. Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.
Ezekiel the prophet says the same concerning our little miqdash-sanctuary-chapel:
Ezekiel 11:16 KJV
16. Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary [HSN#4720 miqdash] in the countries where they shall come.
How will the Most High be for a little miqdash-sanctuary-chapel unto us in the place wheresoever we sojourn?
Believe and do his Torah in the understandings filtered through the Testimony of Yeshua and see what happens.
Revelation 21:22-24 KJV
22. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Deuteronomy 11:18-21 KJV
18. Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. [supernal meaning]
19. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20. And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates: [supernal meaning]
21. That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.
But if you refuse your own Creator then you go your own way as do the many:
Daniel 8:11
11. Yea, even unto the Sar tsaba he magnified, and from him the tamiyd-continual was taken up, and the habitation of the miqdash-sanctuary-chapel of him was cast down.
In NONE of my speech have I ever refused GOD The Creator and His Son Jesus Christ! You are WAY OFF TOPIC and gone into the land of PERSONAL INSULTS.daq said:
The verse from Dan.8 you quoted...
Dan 8:11-12
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
(KJV)
That is about the "vile person" of Dan.11 that is still yet to come and end near future daily sacrifices in Jerusalem once the orthodox unbelieving Jews there rebuild their planned temple for today. That vile person will not be a Christian, otherwise none of the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem would accept him. And build their temple prior to Christ's second coming they will do, to fulfill Bible prophecy involving that "vile person", which is the same pseudochristos Jesus forewarned of in Matt.24:23-26, and in Rev.13:11 forward, and that Apostle Paul warned of in 2 Thess.2:3-4.
More false accusations from you too now? After calling me a blasphemer on Page 1 of this thread I suppose that is an improvement coming from one such as yourself. When are you going to answer to anything here that has been put forward rather than casting accusations? Either way it was not a personal insult or meant as a personal insult but simply a matter of Scripture fact. All those who reject their Creator will suffer the same fate: can the wine glass say to the Glass Blower, "I do not want the wine which you made me for to hold?" All men are created, by a Creator, and we are created for a specific purpose which is fellowship in communion with our Creator in our temple which is no longer our own when we come to Messiah and desire to be his disciples. Again, if you do not believe such things then why are you even here?veteran said:
If all men are created then all men are PROPERTY for the good or for the evil . . . :)
PS ~ As for your comments on Daniel 11 they were just answered elsewhere.
The same goes for Daniel 8:11 - There is no word "sacrifice" and most who study the Prophets know that. :huh:
What you said against the Matt.24:2 and Matt.24:4 Scripture was a bastardization of that Scripture. You ADDED a negative to Matt.24:4 where there is none.daq said:
Your earlier post:
==========================
And Yeshua says to them: "TAKE NO HEED OF ALL THESE THINGS!"
Matthew 24:2-4 Transliterated Unaccented
2. Ho de apokritheis eipen autois, "Ou blepete tauta panta Amen lego humin, ou meafethe hode lithos epi lithon hos ou kataluthesetai"^
3. Kathemenou de autou epi tou Orous ton Elaion proselthon auto hoi mathetai kat idian legontes, "Eipehemin pote tauta estai Kai ti to semeion tes sesparousias kai sunteleias tou aionos"
4. Kai apokritheis ho Iesous eipen autois, "Blepete me-tis humas planese
Matthew 24:4 KJV
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed [GSN#991 blepo] that no man deceive you.
Matthew 24:2 -- "Ou blepete tauta panta" ~ "Take no heed of all these things!"
Matthew 24:4 -- "Blepete me-tis humas planese" ~ "Take heed that no one deceive you!"
The form of blepo is identical in both instances above and should be rendered likewise:
"Ou blepete" ~ "Pay no heed!"
"Blepete" ~ "Take heed!"
====================================
Here are the KJV verses you used to wrongly ADD the negative to Matt.24:4...
Matt 24:2
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
(KJV)
In the above, Jesus is asking a QUESTION to His disciples. it is NOT A COMMAND like, don't look at these things!
Matt 24:4
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."
(KJV)
This verse above is Jesus' RESPONSE to their question about what signs of His coming and the end of the world would be. THIS IS A COMMAND BY JESUS, like, be careful that you let no man deceive you. Greek 'ou' is not there! And by your implying it into that verse it completely flip-flops Jesus' command there.
Matthew 24:2 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented Bible)veteran said:
2. Ho de apokritheis eipen autois, "Ou blepete tauta panta? Amen lego humin, ou meafethe hode lithos epi lithon hos ou kataluthesetai!"^
Matthew 24:4 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented)
4. Kai apokritheis ho Iesous eipen autois, "Blepete me-tis humas planese!
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:2 Greek NT: Nestle 1904
ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Οὐ βλέπετε ταῦτα πάντα; ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ ἀφεθῇ ὧδε λίθος ἐπὶ λίθον ὃς οὐ καταλυθήσεται.
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:2 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Οὐ βλέπετε ταῦτα πάντα; ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ ἀφεθῇ ὧδε λίθος ἐπὶ λίθον ὃς οὐ καταλυθήσεται.
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:2 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort / [NA27 and UBS4 variants]
ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Οὐ βλέπετε ταῦτα πάντα; ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ ἀφεθῇ ὧδε λίθος ἐπὶ λίθον ὃς οὐ καταλυθήσεται.
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:2 Greek NT: RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς εἴπεν αὐτοῖς, Οὐ βλέπετε πάντα ταῦτα; Ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ ἀφεθῇ ὧδε λίθος ἐπὶ λίθον, ὃς οὐ καταλυθήσεται.
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:2 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox Church
ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· Οὐ βλέπετε ταῦτα πάντα; ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ ἀφεθῇ ὧδε λίθος ἐπὶ λίθον ὃς οὐ καταλυθήσεται.
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:2 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Edition
ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· οὐ βλέπετε ταῦτα πάντα; ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ ἀφεθῇ ὧδε λίθος ἐπὶ λίθον, ὃς οὐ καταλυθήσεται.
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:2 Greek NT: Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς, Οὐ βλέπετε πάντα ταῦτα; ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ ἀφεθῇ ὧδε λίθος ἐπὶ λίθον, ὃς οὐ μὴ καταλυθήσεται.
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:2 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Οὐ βλέπετε πάντα ταῦτα ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν οὐ μὴ ἀφεθῇ ὧδε λίθος ἐπὶ λίθον ὃς οὐ μὴ καταλυθήσεται
http://biblehub.com/text/matthew/24-2.htm
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:4 Greek NT: Nestle 1904
καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς πλανήσῃ.
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:4 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς πλανήσῃ·
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:4 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort / [NA27 and UBS4 variants]
καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς πλανήσῃ·
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:4 Greek NT: RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἴπεν αὐτοῖς, Βλέπετε, μή τις ὑμᾶς πλανήσῃ.
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:4 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox Church
καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· Βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς πλανήσῃ.
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:4 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Edition
καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς πλανήσῃ.
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:4 Greek NT: Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς, Βλέπετε, μή τις ὑμᾶς πλανήσῃ
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:4 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς πλανήσῃ·
http://biblehub.com/text/matthew/24-4.htm
Both texts have exactly what I quoted on Page One of this thread:
Matthew 24:2 ~ "ou blepete" -- "Do not take heed"
Matthew 24:4 ~ "blepete" -- "Take heed"
Am I a blasphemer just because you care not to actually read what I have written? I trow not! :lol:
NONE of the Greek texts have 'ou' in the Matt.24:4 verse.daq said:
By your interpretation of the Matt.24:2 phrase you cannot imply the Matt.24:4 has 'ou' in it to make it a negative that does not exist in the Greek there.
But it's apparent that's what you're trying to do, which makes this verse have a non-existing negative...
Matt 24:4
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."
(KJV)
There is NO 'ou' in that above verse. Christ's command to "Take heed" is a correct translation from the Greek.
You are confused and continue making false accusations. It is plain for all to see that I said no such thing as what you now accuse me of once again. You either did not read or did not comprehend the point being made in the OP which is not that Matthew 24:4 is incorrect but that Matthew 24:2 should have included the negative which it does not in many translations. But why should I continue repeating myself to one who already has what I wrote on the previous page and in addition now has quoted from it again and still refuses to see what is written there?veteran said:
Again, the problem is not with Matthew 24:4 but rather with Matthew 24:2
Matthew 24:1-4 KJV
1. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2. And Jesus said unto them, [Ou blepete tauta panta]
3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, [Blepete me-tis humas planese!] Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matthew 24:1-4 ~ What It Really Says:
1. And Yeshua went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2. And Yeshua said unto them; [Ou blepete tauta panta] Take no heed of all these things! verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4. And Yeshua answered and said unto them, [Blepete me-tis humas planese!] Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matthew 24:1-2 paraphrased says: PAY NO HEED TO THESE PHYSICAL BUILDINGS AND STONES OF THE TEMPLE!
The Words that the Father speaks through the Son are Spirit and they are Life.
The Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with stone temples made with hands. :)
Hi daq: Great thread. Remember, in parables and allegory, a few can see it and most can't see it. Also, recognize when triggered by the words of another that cause a reaction in you. That means there's something in your temple that can be cleared out, allowing space for a response of Spirit.
So, just allow for that possibility. Then reread the passage in 2 Thes 2. It is wondrously illuminating. We all come in to this earth with the old carnal man of sin sitting on the throne in our temple. One needs to fall away (step back) from his carnal thinking mind to be able to see that thing, that false counterfeit self, that's been running the show for so long. When you see that, then the day of Christ being enthroned in your temple can happen for you.
Hi veteran: that's not talking about the "True Spiritual Temple of Christ Jesus". YOU are the temple. Know ye not that you are the temple of God. It's talking about the temple that you are, that a human being is.veteran said:
So, just allow for that possibility. Then reread the passage in 2 Thes 2. It is wondrously illuminating. We all come in to this earth with the old carnal man of sin sitting on the throne in our temple. One needs to fall away (step back) from his carnal thinking mind to be able to see that thing, that false counterfeit self, that's been running the show for so long. When you see that, then the day of Christ being enthroned in your temple can happen for you.
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