Strength and Honor: Triumphing over Feminism

[Wrangler]

a discussion about discipline , which is now taking it further.

A beg to differ. It is taking it further for what is driving the movement to reclassify discipline as child abuse and a crime? And what is the fruit of that movement?

I posted earlier that my ex-wife once said she thinks telling the teen girls "no" is abusive. Somewhat extreme lack of parental guidance and discipline, don't you think? Where does this idea come from? Not the Bible.

 

[Wrangler]

In Matthew 5 Jesus states that we should pluck out an eye under certain circumstances.
Wonder if @Wrangler also takes that literally?

Some things in the Bible are literal and some are figurative. It takes discernment to know the difference.

Having said that, your claim is invalid. It is untrue to say that we should pluck out our eye. Rather, it is stated as a comparative; it would be better to pluck out your eye. This means both are bad but one is a worse thing to do. Discernment.

 

[Rita]

As Wynona has confirmed that the latter part of the thread is off topic to her I suggest that those wishing to discuss discipline of children start their own thread rather than derail this one

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Consult your favorite lexicon.

I have and also all the times rod is used in the Bible. It has multiple meanings for example: Revelation 2:27 Lexicon: AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father;

Hebrews 5:7-9 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; [8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; [9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Who in the days of his flesh …with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death…
To me this fits your passages better than your explanation of what it means. Especially who was able to save the Son from death. Which is not men after the flesh but the Father of Lights.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

As Wynona has confirmed that the latter part of the thread is off topic to her I suggest that those wishing to discuss discipline of children start their own thread rather than derail this one

I’m sorry I just saw this. You said you suggest…does that mean we can’t discuss or you rather it not be discussed? I do want to finish responding to wrangler. To me it all goes hand-in-hand. Even @Ritajanice discussion with @Wrangler concerning the equality of different nationalities. Where is one in charge over others. same with children and masters. Same with women and men and this ongoing question over is equality evil or good? What is equality. To me I see we can say one thing concerning men and women …but in different peoples Jew, Greeks, Gentiles, it is the other way where there should not be slaves and masters.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I see the child discipline issue as off topic and not likely to produce any discussion that adds anything worthwhile.

Sure it does. If you will notice what one believes concerning men and women spills over into what they believe the verses say about rods and children then spills over into what they believe about different peoples. It exposes I think but that is just my opinion. I’d beware if I’d agree with someone on gender roles then to see how they apply it to all roles. To me it’s a red flag.

 

[Rita]

I think it’s important to respect the fact that it’s Wynona thread - hence why I mentioned starting another thread on the subject of ‘ rods and children ‘ - I have been given it some thought since last night and in all honesty have never considered that feminism impacted discipline with children , I am still not sure. I saw a change in society itself with regards to discipline and over the years it’s that change that has influence discipline in the home. Now whether or not those society changes are link to the women’s role changing would be interesting to consider. ( things started to change in the U.K. when corporal punishment was taken out of the school system in the 1980’s )

 

[GodsGrace]

Sure it does. If you will notice what one believes concerning men and women spills over into what they believe the verses say about rods and children then spills over into what they believe about different peoples. It exposes I think but that is just my opinion. I’d beware if I’d agree with someone on gender roles then to see how they apply it to all roles. To me it’s a red flag.

Hi Victory,
I have to agree with @Rita and @Wynona .

Every thread can go a little off topic with no consequence to the overall theme.
However, what is happening here is totally changing the intent that Wynona had for this thread.

It would be easy to tie it into the discussion/topic if it could be shown that traditional women were agreed that beating a child was OK and the new feminism believes it is not OK and how that would impact on feminism societally.

But that's too complicated.
If you want to start a thread about how to discipline a child, you should tag those of us that would be interested.
I'd be happy to join in the convo since the belief of the other member is outrageous.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Your question reflects an over-spiritualization common in Christendom today. @quietthinker,

I’m getting tired of hearing the over-spiritualization cry as a foul. Have you not ever considered maybe you’re over flesh-i-zation. Is that what it’s called when there are different types of flesh? There is the heavenly…celestial. And the earthly …terrestrial. Their glory different. You say it’s over spiritualization. I don’t see it that way. To me it stands out that you changed it to men giving their child longer life span on earth before going into the casket. When He says you can add not to it. Like a man using the rod on a child can increase his life here and as a result, a father has extended the life of his child before the casket. you have removed completely all that Jesus spoke of in losing your life that you may find your Life. It removed the whole message of something more than extending your time here and avoiding death of the casket to live longer. None of that applies to saving a child from death. Romans 7 speaks of saving from death by the body of Christ. Saving from sin unto death. in Christ, obedience unto Righteousness bearing fruit unto God. You reduced it to “a live longer” verse ignoring Jesus Christ was obedient unto death, laid down His Life and took it up again. Don’t tell me over spiritualization when you speak of how a man can make his child live longer in the temporal neglecting as you said the needful of who delivers the child from death of the grave. That Father delivers the soul. He disciplines not as our fathers after the flesh, but for our profit that we may share in His Holiness and bear fruit unto Life.

contemptuously sees anything else as carnal thinking. Christendom has largely abandoned soulful considerations, the needs of the body.

The needs of the body???
Teaching on how fathers can keep their children living longer in the temporal by using a rod …this life shows that is not true. Yes Paul spoke as a Father, but it was the Spirit of Christ (the Father)in Paul towards “little children”.

I have a feeling this will be deleted. Hopefully you’ll read it first. I’m not listening to your over spiritualization cry’s as a foul. Not when you’ve taken a verse on disciple with a rod and turned into mens power to claim they increase a child’s life span.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hi Victory,
I have to agree with @Rita and @Wynona .

Every thread can go a little off topic with no consequence to the overall theme.
However, what is happening here is totally changing the intent that Wynona had for this thread.

It would be easy to tie it into the discussion/topic if it could be shown that traditional women were agreed that beating a child was OK and the new feminism believes it is not OK and how that would impact on feminism societally.

But that's too complicated.
If you want to start a thread about how to discipline a child, you should tag those of us that would be interested.
I'd be happy to join in the convo since the belief of the other member is outrageous.

I agree. I’m not interested in starting a thread on it. I’m going to moms. I’m sorry to @Wynona but it wouldn’t matter if another thread was started. It’s always the same. It all entwines to me in whether we read it literally. Round and round we go. And it’s going to keep circling around the same things …all the topics about God. I’m okay with whatever you all want to delete. It really doesn’t matter. Gender roles, family roles, ethnicity…it is all in the mind and thoughts. obviously @Wrangler is persistent in his.

 

[Wynona]

Sure it does. If you will notice what one believes concerning men and women spills over into what they believe the verses say about rods and children then spills over into what they believe about different peoples. It exposes I think but that is just my opinion. I’d beware if I’d agree with someone on gender roles then to see how they apply it to all roles. To me it’s a red flag.

I don't have much of a desire to police tone or even content on my threads. People will mostly do what they want.

But I don't see a good outcome from pursuing the topic on this thread. A separate thread would be fine.

I don't see agreeing on gender roles as me signing off on every tone or statement someone says, nor does it make what Im saying wrong. They are two somewhat related topics but I like to be somewhat detached on the forum as long as things don't get too heated and have to be shut down, which seems like a real possibility.

 

[Mink57]

.Exodus 22:16
Social and Religious Laws
16 “When a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged to be married and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife.

She does not have to pay. Once again, showing for 4,000 years women were the protected class, receiving benefits the man did not.

Why should she have to pay, since she didn't do the 'seducing'?

Besides, women were considered their father's property, until she married. The bride-price was not payment to the father to acquire the woman from the father, but as restitution for the father's loss of a daughter.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I don't have much of a desire to police tone or even content on my threads. People will mostly do what they want.

But I don't see a good outcome from pursuing the topic on this thread. A separate thread would be fine.

I don't see agreeing on gender roles as me signing off on every tone or statement someone says, nor does it make what Im saying wrong. They are two somewhat related topics but I like to be somewhat detached on the forum as long as things don't get too heated and have to be shut down, which seems like a real possibility.

Agree. But I’ve spent decades with men telling it was a shame to be the weaker vessel. It wasn’t until seeing Paul speak of his being a weaker vessel that I saw…it is not a shame. If I could get one message put into the world it would be this. The woman …or women God speaks of in the Bible are: two covenants. We are distracted by the wrong definition of a woman. To me out of that comes all this discord. I say this because all the verses pertain “to woman” began to fit when I stopped making it gender. I don’t think those set in it being about gender will ever let go of it to see: two covenants. To me it changes everything about what God says where one is adulterous and leads to death. One is Free and clean and leads to Life. that should be the focus of which covenant do we serve? Sin unto death. Or obedience unto righteousness. The proverbs 31 woman is one of the covenant women. The “proverbs 31 woman” and in her tongue is the law of Kindness. Can we see who the woman is…with the law of kindness in her tongue, New Jerusalem which is above and Free. But see…we are talking gender roles, using rods on children, and whether Jews, Greeks, and gentiles are equal. A big distraction …

 

[Wynona]

Agree. But I’ve spent decades with men telling it was a shame to be the weaker vessel. It wasn’t until seeing Paul speak of his being a weaker vessel that I saw…it is not a shame. If I could get one message put into the world it would be this. The woman …or women God speaks of in the Bible are: two covenants. We are distracted by the wrong definition of a woman. To me out of that comes all this discord. I say this because all the verses pertain “to woman” began to fit when I stopped making it gender. I don’t think those set in it being about gender will ever let go of it to see: two covenants. To me it changes everything about what God says where one is adulterous and leads to death. One is Free and clean and leads to Life. that should be the focus of which covenant do we serve? Sin unto death. Or obedience unto righteousness. The proverbs 31 woman is one of the covenant women. The “proverbs 31 woman” and in her tongue is the law of Kindness. Can we see who the woman is…with the law of kindness in her tongue, New Jerusalem which is above and Free. But see…we are talking gender roles, using rods on children, and whether Jews, Greeks, and gentiles are equal. A big distraction …

Why are gender roles a distraction? If they are, what does that mean in how we should live?

Asking in a neutral curious tone, not an accusatory one.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Why are gender roles a distraction? If they are, what does that mean in how we should live?

Asking in a neutral curious tone, not an accusatory one.

I have an appointment at 12:30. I’ll respond later. It is important to me to not rush a reply to you.

 

[Wrangler]

Another DEI with predictable results.

 

[Wynona]

I'm seeing more brothers and sisters from older generations. Decades ago, toxic male behaviour towards women, abuse, chauvinism, and outright sexist disrespect and hate were real issues that our society wanted to address.

But the issues have become very different today. I have rarely seen a married man verbally defend himself in a public conversation with his wife, let alone beat her, in my lifetime

Growing up, most tv dads were sitcom doofus'. Superheroes in movies who tried to protect women were clearly wrong for assuming she couldn't handle herself in a fight.

Ive seen a lot of people joke that for husbands, the right answer is always "Yes Ma'am." Yet a woman submitting herself to her husband is inherently demeaning and cruel.

Worse, my generation and younger can hardly tell what a man or woman is. We defend children being taken from parents who don't want to medically transition their bodies so they can be the other gender.

Many of us dont ever want to marry or have kids because it clearly made the older generations miserable and complain all the time. We want nothing to do with all that misery and so reject family mindsets altogether.

Most of the marriages in both my family and my husbands family are woman dominated.

The times have become very different. The baggage of the woman hating domineering tyrant just doesn't apply today for most of us.

 

[Waiting on him]

Agree. But I’ve spent decades with men telling it was a shame to be the weaker vessel. It wasn’t until seeing Paul speak of his being a weaker vessel that I saw…it is not a shame. If I could get one message put into the world it would be this. The woman …or women God speaks of in the Bible are: two covenants. We are distracted by the wrong definition of a woman. To me out of that comes all this discord. I say this because all the verses pertain “to woman” began to fit when I stopped making it gender. I don’t think those set in it being about gender will ever let go of it to see: two covenants. To me it changes everything about what God says where one is adulterous and leads to death. One is Free and clean and leads to Life. that should be the focus of which covenant do we serve? Sin unto death. Or obedience unto righteousness. The proverbs 31 woman is one of the covenant women. The “proverbs 31 woman” and in her tongue is the law of Kindness. Can we see who the woman is…with the law of kindness in her tongue, New Jerusalem which is above and Free. But see…we are talking gender roles, using rods on children, and whether Jews, Greeks, and gentiles are equal. A big distraction …

What do you expect. The carnal mind minds the things of the flesh, and is enmity against God.

 

[Wynona]

The times have become very different. The baggage of the woman hating domineering tyrant just doesn't apply today for most of us.

I am too longwinded at times.


Feminism is the air we breathe today, not patriarchy. The sexism of today is against men, not women. Scripture has the answer.

 

[amigo de christo]

View attachment 50668

a big fat men to that sister . this gem was hidden but i found it .
And must fully agree , EVEN SO COME LORD JESUS .