Strength and Honor: Triumphing over Feminism

Mink57 · Oct 7, 2024

Wynona said:
Campaign ads, reading books on feminism, learning about its four waves, popular media that projects feminist ideals. Leading feminists themselves.

And you're going to see other ads, other books etc. that show the complete opposite.

I've been around for 66 years. And never EVER have I heard another woman advocate for feminism in my 'circle' and even outside my circle. If you actively SEARCH for it, you'll find it. Never seen a campaign ad...never read a book on feminism. I've never been on social media (no Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, TicToc, or any of that). I guess, "Seek and ye shall find"..

Wynona said:
Their hatred for the pregnancy resource center ministry I volunteered at. They actively try to shut us down.

Ok. And abortion centers have been BOMBED. There is malic and hatred on BOTH ends.

Wynona said:
Do you deny that they discourage young womn having babies?

YES, I deny it! Who is 'THEY' anyway? You think that ALL feminists discourage women from having babies? Having children wasn't the point of feminism in the first place! Just because some radical feminists may try to discourage women from having children doesn't mean that ALL feminists feel that way. My GOODNESS Wynona....I mean SERIOUSLY!

Wynona said:
Or will you hide behind the choice argument, as if feminists promote every woman's choice equally whem they consistently and have not on record?

On WHOSE record? Are you denying that women historically haven't been treated equally to men? Notice I didn't say that women are equal to men, but that they haven't been treated EQUALLY to men. BIG difference.

Do you have any idea WHY women were not allowed FEDERALLY to vote? All of the myths about women...how women's brains are smaller than men's and therefore, women were not CAPABLE of making a 'logical' decision when it came to voting...how voting would somehow 'interrupt their reproductive cycle'...or how about that women are not capable of having an orgasm, and therefore shouldn't expect to have one during sex...

How about the one where women are not as INTELLIGENT as men. And yet, the person with the HIGHEST EVER RECORDED IQ is that of a woman...or that women in general are "too emotional", yet it's o.k. for a MAN to be emotional (through anger...which IS an emotion)

How about the idea that women DID invent things...the dishwasher...the ironing board...and yet MEN would not ALLOW women to take credit for those inventions?

Think WOMEN had a choice in all of this?

Wynona said:
Is there any aspect of feminism that you would consider not a "win" for women and society at large?

Not really.

Do you think that Patriarchy...and it's oppression of both women AND men is a 'win' for all?

Patriarchy doesn't ONLY oppress women. It oppresses men too.

GodsGrace · Oct 7, 2024

Mink57 said:
And how do you "absolutely know" this?

I have 2 daughters. My oldest is 31. She went to college, is working on her Master's, has a fantastic career in a male-dominated profession, has a long-term boyfriend. Her attitude about having children is that as much as she would like to have children, a few medical issues would make it difficult (maybe even impossible) for her to do so. She figures she still has a few years left, but if she CAN'T have children, she and her fiance aren't going to be torn up about it. Disappointed, yes. But torn up? No. Her attitude is, "If it happens, it happens. If not, oh well..."

OTOH, my youngest daughter, 30, already has 3 children. She had her first at 19. Her last child was born in March of this year, when my daughter was 29. Originally, my daughter wanted five children. She changed her mind only recently, once she realized that the kids she has now...are enough. She also has a decent career in front of her, and she just received a promotion. She's also in school online, working toward her degree in Business Admiinistration.

I was born in 1957. I'm part of the second wave of feminism. I never EVER had a talk with EITHER of them about feminism in of itself. I simply told them that they could be and do WHATEVER THEY WANTED. "Wherever your heart is, that's where your treasure will be." (Matthew 6:21) I am not more proud of my older daughter for stepping out of the stereotypical traditional role of wife/mother, nor am I less proud of my younger daughter for stepping into a MORE traditional role of wife/mother. And if either one of my kids decided to DITCH the 9 to 5, I'd be just as supportive, IF that's where their heart is.

The reason why SOME feminists hate limits on abortion is for, in part, reasons OTHER THAN than feminism discouraging women to take advantage of their prime child-bearing years.

Mink,
Our personal experiences have nothing whatsoever to do with what's going on in the world.

You were born in 57? You were 20 before you knew anything important and that was in '77 - way after the female revolt.
I lived through it.

We have to base our beliefs on what we see around us and what changes have taken place
IN SOCIETY....not in our personal lives.

@Wynona is right in all she states.
Women have placed themselves in a terrible situation,
and their NATURAL desires have been erradicated for more banal and mundane aspirations.

No doubt about it....just look around you.
It's worse even than 1977.

Wynona · Oct 7, 2024

The intent of feminism is not what matters to me in the end. What about the results? Changes in policy, culture, and lives? Does feminism get a free pass from its results because they are said to fight for "equality and fairness"

DI don't believe in any ideal society. Suffering is guaranteed. The triumph is not that tradition is some guarantee against suffering. The triump is that biblical patriarchy and traditional marriage produces objectively better outcomes for women, men, children, families, and society in mental healthy, physical health, family well being, and society because the Bible is true and always will be.

This is in spite of the reality of sin, suffering, and decay our world has. All of that was apart of my marriage and through God's Word, we found purpose, fulfillment, and satisfaction in spite of our own sinful tendencies.

God's Word is objectively better than the feminist movement and always will be.

Wynona · Oct 7, 2024

Mink57 said:
Do you think that Patriarchy...and it's oppression of both women AND men is a 'win' for all?

It is objectively better in it's results for all people than feminism even in a broken world.

Wynona · Oct 7, 2024

Mink57 said:
If you actively SEARCH for it, you'll find it. Never seen a campaign ad...never read a book on feminism. I've never been on social media (no Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, TicToc, or any of that). I guess, "Seek and ye shall find"..

This is not a good argument. You haven't read a feminist book. But because I have, you're acting like I just looked for some irrelevant negative thing about feminism.

But thats not what this means. Iteans you are lacking knowledge of the source material and actual agenda of the movement you claim to support and simply taking their nicey nice claims of supporting equality and social value at face value.

The front business is "empowerment for women". The reality and the result is empowerment of the state and the disruption of the traditional family. More divorces, more abortions, less babies, more government programs to supplement missing fathers as if a paycheck can replace the impact of a loving father. More hatred of men.

VictoryinJesus · Oct 7, 2024

Mink57 said:
What makes you think that one passage has ANYTHING to do with the other? By your logic, Matthew 19:15-30 has to do with children or Matthew 19:13-14.

...which OBVIOUSLY, it doesn't.

to be fair you should know @Waiting on him is my husband. So we talk to each other at home about what passages mean to us.

To me there are two conversations going on about couples …a man and wife not being able to have children. If I understood you correctly? you are speaking of biological men and women as some either choosing to not have children, or they can’t conceive? Where maybe the wife can’t carry a child, or the man is sterile?

But I don’t think that is what my husband is talking to you about. The woman saved through child birth. It is through the birth of bearing children unto God, bearing fruit, bringing forth fruit unto God that saves her(the Woman)(the New covenant). I personally don’t think this has anything to do with the argument that some men and some women can’t produce children. Romans 7 speaks of two women, two covenants where by the body of Christ you have been made free from sin unto death, “to bring forth Fruit unto God” . It is by and through this “bearing fruit unto to God” that saves the woman through “childbirth”? As in James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

Numbers Five also speaks of
Numbers 5:24,28 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causes the curse: and the water that causes the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter. [28] And if the woman (not the adulterous woman) be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free(saved), and shall conceive seed. (Bear fruit unto God, bear children unto God) as Romans says you have been made free to bear (bring forth) fruit unto God.

Whether a man or woman can or cannot have biological children has nothing to do with “bearing Fruit unto God”. To say not all can bear children unto God, not all can bring forth Fruit unto God <where by and through childbirth the woman is saved—is not accurate Imo. At least I hope not when 2 Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Philippians 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Romans 7:4-5 Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

There is no other way to say “the woman is saved through childbirth”
I have two daughters, and five grandchildren. This childbearing is not what saves …I am not even “the Woman” spoken of. It’s the New Covenant Woman …made clean, made free by the body of Christ, made free to bear fruit unto God by and through Christ.

amigo de christo · Oct 7, 2024

Mink57 said:
No husband BY CHOICE.

No boyfriend BY CHOICE.

No cats BY CHOICE. Honestly Wrangler, you seem to believe that a woman can't possibly be happy unless she's paired up with a man...and that ANY man will do.

Who says I'm UNhappy? You?

By the grace of the LORD i have been single and abstinite for over twenty years now .
My choice and HE has filled with great joy and peace .
Paul never married or had a wife either . SO so long as one has the LORD they have all they need .
But i do want you to understand something my dear friend .
This feminism movment is bad news . I dont say that to be mean , hateful or cruel .
I dont say that cause i think the man is better
I say it cause its truth . its bad news sister . let us cling to CHRIST and learn our bible well .

Wynona · Oct 7, 2024

Waiting on him said:
Have a look at what Paul has to say about who his mother is.

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
— Galatians 4:26

He also states this.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
— Galatians 3:26

Sorry for not responding earlier. Does Paup mean that Jeruseleum us the center of Judaism and Christians owe heritage to Jeruseleum as a result?

amigo de christo · Oct 7, 2024

Wynona said:
Sorry for not responding earlier. Does Paup mean that Jeruseleum us the center of Judaism and Christians owe heritage to Jeruseleum as a result?

Read it again . what paul is saying is THAT THE TRUE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM , the ONE wherein GOD and the lamb are the temple
IS FREE and not in bondage as is earthen jerusalem .
JESUS has fullfilled .
There was an pattern once that was built and established by the pattern of the heavenly
BUT NOW JESUS HAS ENTERED INTO THE TRUE and not the pattern but THE TRUE .
That is our mother where the King sits at the right hand of the FATHER
and where the lambs are seated in spiritual places , AS WE ALSO await this city TO COME .
JESUS fullfilled all that the law said , that the prophets said , all that was to come
For a time the earthly had its jersualem and its temple and the pattern was made after the HEAVENLY .
BUT NOW WE HAVE THE HEAVENLY , KING JESUS has DONE what man could not do
HE has attained what no man could , HE has finished the works .
even the sabbath given to the jews whereby on the seventh day they rested ,
CHRIST finished the very works of GOD and NOW IN HIM we have THE SABBATH
COME YE UNTO ME all you who do labor and are weary and YE shall find rest for , YOUR SOULS . not the body , BUT YOUR SOULS .
the sabbath first given , THE TRUE FAR EXCEEDS . for in that rest a man has REST FOR HIS SOUL
BY HE WHO HAS FINISHED THE VERY WORKS , the work that no man could
finish , CHRIST HAS DONE . We have a HEAVENLY TEMPLE , a HEAVENLY JERUSALEM OF GOD that consists
ONLY of the beliving JEW and GENTILE . And we have entered into THE SABBATH OF GOD , OF CHRIST
whereby we may now have rest in HIM and by HIM he worketh in us that which is well pleasing to GOD .
What a wonderful LORD dear sister .

amigo de christo · Oct 7, 2024

Wynona and all , ITS TIME to praise and to thank the glorious LORD .

GodsGrace · Oct 7, 2024

Wrangler said:
It's remarkable the petty tyrant good men who are husbands are made out to be to justify bad wives practicing feminism.

?
Splain?

Marvelloustime · Oct 7, 2024

amigo de christo said:
Read it again . what paul is saying is THAT THE TRUE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM , the ONE wherein GOD and the lamb are the temple
IS FREE and not in bondage as is earthen jerusalem .
JESUS has fullfilled .
There was an pattern once that was built and established by the pattern of the heavenly
BUT NOW JESUS HAS ENTERED INTO THE TRUE and not the pattern but THE TRUE .
That is our mother where the King sits at the right hand of the FATHER
and where the lambs are seated in spiritual places , AS WE ALSO await this city TO COME .
JESUS fullfilled all that the law said , that the prophets said , all that was to come
For a time the earthly had its jersualem and its temple and the pattern was made after the HEAVENLY .
BUT NOW WE HAVE THE HEAVENLY , KING JESUS has DONE what man could not do
HE has attained what no man could , HE has finished the works .
even the sabbath given to the jews whereby on the seventh day they rested ,
CHRIST finished the very works of GOD and NOW IN HIM we have THE SABBATH
COME YE UNTO ME all you who do labor and are weary and YE shall find rest for , YOUR SOULS . not the body , BUT YOUR SOULS .
the sabbath first given , THE TRUE FAR EXCEEDS . for in that rest a man has REST FOR HIS SOUL
BY HE WHO HAS FINISHED THE VERY WORKS , the work that no man could
finish , CHRIST HAS DONE . We have a HEAVENLY TEMPLE , a HEAVENLY JERUSALEM OF GOD that consists
ONLY of the beliving JEW and GENTILE . And we have entered into THE SABBATH OF GOD , OF CHRIST
whereby we may now have rest in HIM and by HIM he worketh in us that which is well pleasing to GOD .
What a wonderful LORD dear sister .

Wrangler · Oct 7, 2024

GodsGrace said:
?
Splain?

GodsGrace said:
IF the husband threw the skittles on the floor specifically to be mean

Wrangler said:
It's remarkable the petty tyrant good men who are husbands are made out to be to justify bad wives practicing feminism.

Why not speculate that feminists make a bad wife rather than a good man who is a husband does things to be specifically be mean?

The scenario you speculate is absurd. The experience I have is about restraining the wife's bad decisions - even if they have emotionally understandable motives. Example. IF the child threw the skittles on the floor specifically to be mean, they need to be taught a lesson that will hurt their precious little egos. The ego of the bad feminist wife has to be put aside. Someone is about to get a well deserved beating by the Father.

This is parenting. This is tough love. It does not need to be a federal case, where government acts as an advocate by presuming their is abuse going on. Abuse is not going on. Parenting is gone on, masculine style. Daddy style. Bad feminists seeking to avoid responsibility themselves and their children, the consequences of their choices is, let's say, problematic. Did I Splain?

GodsGrace · Oct 7, 2024

Wrangler said:
Why not speculate that feminists make a bad wife rather than a good man who is a husband does things to be specifically be mean?

Did you follow the posts?

Wrangler said:
The scenario you speculate is absurd.

@Wynona stated that even if a husband threw skittles on the floor to be mean, she still would pick them up as a good wife.
It wasn't MY scenario.

I replied that I would not pick them up if the husband did it TO BE MEAN....
No respect between husband and wife....
No good relationship.
(no matter how good I am).

Wrangler said:
The experience I have is about restraining the wife's bad decisions - even if they have emotionally understandable motives. Example. IF the child threw the skittles on the floor specifically to be mean, they need to be taught a lesson that will hurt their precious little egos. The ego of the bad feminist wife has to be put aside. Someone is about to get a well deserved beating by the Father.

There's a misunderstanding here so I won't reply further.

I will say that I'm not against giving a child a good slap in the rear NOT DUE TO BEING MAD, but to make a point (never hit a child when upset)....

BUT A CHILD SHOULD NEVER BE BEATEN.....
There's a difference.

Wrangler said:
This is parenting. This is tough love. It does not need to be a federal case, where government acts as an advocate by presuming their is abuse going on. Abuse is not going on. Parenting is gone on, masculine style. Daddy style. Bad feminists seeking to avoid responsibility themselves and their children, the consequences of their choices is, let's say, problematic. Did I Splain?

Well you splained stuff I didn't post, but that's OK.

Waiting on him · Oct 7, 2024

Wynona said:
Sorry for not responding earlier. Does Paup mean that Jeruseleum us the center of Judaism and Christians owe heritage to Jeruseleum as a result?

Paul is simply stating the same that Jesus did. You must be born from above.

I’m not certain where you get the idea of Judaism?

Waiting on him · Oct 7, 2024

VictoryinJesus said:
to be fair you should know @Waiting on him is my husband. So we talk to each other at home about what passages mean to us.

To me there are two conversations going on about couples …a man and wife not being able to have children. If I understood you correctly? you are speaking of biological men and women as some either choosing to not have children, or they can’t conceive? Where maybe the wife can’t carry a child, or the man is sterile?

But I don’t think that is what my husband is talking to you about. The woman saved through child birth. It is through the birth of bearing children unto God, bearing fruit, bringing forth fruit unto God that saves her(the Woman)(the New covenant). I personally don’t think this has anything to do with the argument that some men and some women can’t produce children. Romans 7 speaks of two women, two covenants where by the body of Christ you have been made free from sin unto death, “to bring forth Fruit unto God” . It is by and through this “bearing fruit unto to God” that saves the woman through “childbirth”? As in James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

Numbers Five also speaks of
Numbers 5:24,28 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causes the curse: and the water that causes the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter. [28] And if the woman (not the adulterous woman) be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free(saved), and shall conceive seed. (Bear fruit unto God, bear children unto God) as Romans says you have been made free to bear (bring forth) fruit unto God.

Whether a man or woman can or cannot have biological children has nothing to do with “bearing Fruit unto God”. To say not all can bear children unto God, not all can bring forth Fruit unto God <where by and through childbirth the woman is saved—is not accurate Imo. At least I hope not when 2 Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Philippians 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Romans 7:4-5 Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

There is no other way to say “the woman is saved through childbirth”
I have two daughters, and five grandchildren. This childbearing is not what saves …I am not even “the Woman” spoken of. It’s the New Covenant Woman …made clean, made free by the body of Christ, made free to bear fruit unto God by and through Christ.

She doesn’t understand that the very thing she desires is what I am trying to lead her towards.

Wynona · Oct 7, 2024

Waiting on him said:
Paul is simply stating the same that Jesus did. You must be born from above.

I’m not certain where you get the idea of Judaism?

I guess I meant religious heritage equating to motherhood and children. But I honestly was not sure about the passage at all. Im still not entirely.

I'm not 100 percent on "the saved through childbearing" verse either. A lot of Scriptures seem very straightforward to me. Others, not so much.

Wrangler · Oct 7, 2024

GodsGrace said:
BUT A CHILD SHOULD NEVER BE BEATEN.....
There's a difference.

Sure a child should be beaten. Never read the Bible? "Spare the rod, spoil the child" is a command to beat the child with a rod to save his soul. In fact, Proverbs 13:24 says if you do NOT beat the child with a rod, it means you HATE the child.

Western Civilization has become so soft, it is ripe for destruction. Americans cannot even figure out that it is not a good idea to let your country be invaded for decades.

Wynona · Oct 7, 2024

Feminism is not an ideology purely interested in the wellbeing and freedom of choice women for it's own sake.

It's not so hidden agenda through all the waves is the empowerment of the state---government over family. Specifically a socialist state. Where government replaces the traditional family as the center of society.

What does increased divorce, welfare, birth control, abortion, women being career centered, public school education, less fathers in homes, and the denigration of traditional men in society have in common?

All of these things make government more powerful, rich, and influential. The government replaces the father in the home to a great profit and increased votes for more control over people's lives.

Betty Friedan, Gloria Steinem, Simone de Beauvoir, and many leaders of the second wave feminist movement especially were trained Marxists. They actively sought to undermine the traditional family values that America had through Christian influence so that an increasingly socialist state could rise. They did not try to hide this. Its on record. They wrote and spoke openly about these things. Feminists still do.

quietthinker · Oct 7, 2024