Strength and Honor: Triumphing over Feminism

[Mink57]

@Mink57 says married couples submit to one another. Is this true? Let's look at Ephesians 5, starting in verse 17
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.




Based on the verse in context, I'd argue that 21, submit to one another, is addressed to the church body as a congregation. But in verse 22, he addresses wives specifically, telling them to submit to their husbands and why---the husband is the head.

This is not conditional on the deservingness of the man, because the marriage represents Christ's headship of the church by virtue of the man being a man and the woman being a woman in the marriage.

"24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing."

This is something the wife must do, not something she should be coerced or threatened into doing. It's her decision to live out the role of the church toward Christ out of reverence for God.

I think you really need to get over this whole 'submit' thing as ONLY applied to women to husbands. The bible DOES say to submit to ONE ANOTHER...and that INCLUDES wives to husbands and husbands to wives.

 

[Mink57]

Again, you are lost. Willful denial.

It's been explained to you over and over again by several posters now that the Bible requires unconditional obedience. The whole idea that feminists put themselves in God's position to judge is anti-Biblical.

The bible says NOTHING about "unconditional" obedience EXCEPT to GOD!!!

NOT 'man'...GOD!!!

If obedience to (a) man (husband) was "unconditional" Paul would NEVER have allowed a woman to LEAVE her husband. He said (paraphrasing) that IF a wife leaves, she has to either NOT get divorced OR be reconciled to her husband.

My goodness...if 'obedience' was 'unconditional', women would NEVER be able to leave men..

 

[Mink57]

Self deception. Only undyed hair is natural.

I didn't SAY that DID I!!!! I SAID a "more natural COLOR".

 

[Wrangler]

The bible says NOTHING about "unconditional" obedience EXCEPT to GOD!!!

As I said, willful denial.

Logic. If a statement is not qualified, then it is unqualified.
If a statement is not conditional, then it is unconditional.

NOTE: The absence of qualifiers or conditions make it unqualified and unconditional. "When you come home from work, give me the book" is a qualified statement where the book is to be given under the condition of returning home from work.

Language Usage. "Give me the book" is an unqualified command.
"Wives must respect their husbands" is an unqualified/unconditional command.

 

[Wrangler]

If obedience to (a) man (husband) was "unconditional" Paul would NEVER have allowed a woman to LEAVE her husband. He said (paraphrasing) that IF a wife leaves, she has to either NOT get divorced OR be reconciled to her husband.

My goodness...if 'obedience' was 'unconditional', women would NEVER be able to leave men..

Contrivance. Eisegesis. You have to read into the text and assume the husband said not to leave and she left anyway.

PERVERSION OF EQUALITY. You are comparing as equal being in a covenant relationship with acting outside of it.

 

[MA2444]

There were some cultures that believed that a woman can become pregnant by sitting in the moonlight during a full moon.

She said Nothing Happened! And they believed her, but she was lying.

Being submissive to a man (her husband) is ONE thing. Submitting to God is something else.

Oh yeah? What if God came down and told you to submitt to your husband? Would you obey the Lord or not?

Hardly. I don't think that most women would have a problem submitting to their husbands IF their husbands were like Jesus

I dont believe that. God already told women to submit to their husbands and they wont do it. Even you.

 

[MrsPolina]

Is there something wrong with obeying your husband? I like it. I feel protected, guided, disciplined. Women to me just don't inspire authority. Two leaders can't co-exist, they'll butt heads. In a healthy relationship one has to lead and one has to follow. Be complementary.

 

[Wrangler]

I don't think that most women would have a problem submitting to their husbands IF their husbands were like Jesus

Putting a condition on an unconditional command. "He didn't tell me to submit in a way I felt good about" is excuse making.

How about this excuse; men would love women IF they were like Jesus? How does that shoe fit?

 

[Wrangler]

Is there something wrong with obeying your husband? I like it. I feel protected, guided, disciplined. Women to me just don't inspire authority. Two leaders can't co-exist, they'll butt heads. In a healthy relationship one has to lead and one has to follow. Be complementary.

Welcome to CyB!

 

[MA2444]

Nope. I don't believe that for a moment. It doesn't even make sense. After all, what if the husband's argument is wrong? What if it's selfish?
"Oh, o.k., honey. I'll 'submit' to you. If you REALLY want to be with those prostitutes..."

There you go, blaming men and side stepping your own accountability. What makes you think that all men want prostitutes? Experience from making poor decisions in your past? Why cant your choices be accounted to what you chose which resulted in that type guy that did want prostitutes? And that guy that wanted you to help robbing a bank?

Did you friend zone the nice guys and date the bad boys? The way I see it, first time it could happen to anyone. The second time, uh-oh something went wrong, it happened again (choose wiser next time). Third time, no way it isnt your fault, stop choosing those men!
How many is several? You said you have several bad long term relationships.

How many does it have to be before you can admit to making a poor choice?
Well the man was a bum, she said. (we dont know why she kept choosing bums...)
Out of several bad relatonships...it was always the mans fault? You never did anything wrong, right? I dont buy that.

And it isnt all men. Perhaps it is all the men that you have ever chose? First time, he's a bum. Second time, we'll give that to you! He's a bum. But what the 3rd time? 4th time? 5th time? Are they all bums and your the sweet & innocent little girl? I'm soory mmm, but I dont buy that.

Completion? No. I believe that people are 'complete' as individuals. After all, is the nun or priest who never married "incomplete"?

Maybe that is the source of your confusion because it is wrong thinking? If you admit completion then you would have to admit that, men need women and women need men. and men do have seniority.
So I'm complete all by myself! So there! (Lol). Come on...

 

[Wrangler]

what if the husband's argument is wrong?

The immaturity here is stunning. Who decides, who judges if the husband's argument is wrong?

Also, the command to obey is unconditional. He commands. You obey. It has nothing to do with his reasoning.

If his reasoning is wrong, that's on him and it is a fault of the mind. If you refuse to obey, that is on you and is a fault of the heart.

Final point. What if the husband's argument is right?

 

[Mink57]

The immaturity here is stunning. Who decides, who judges if the husband's argument is wrong?

The ARROGANCE from you is stunning. Who decides, who judges if the WIFE'S argument is wrong?

Also, the command to obey is unconditional. He commands. You obey. It has nothing to do with his reasoning.

No, it isn't unconditional. Again, your ARROGANCE is shocking. You don't follow God, *I* don't 'obey'.

If his reasoning is wrong, that's on him and it is a fault of the mind. If you refuse to obey, that is on you and is a fault of the heart.

So, I 'obey' him, and he gets us ALL killed...??? Yeah, really GOOD reasoning.

Final point. What if the husband's argument is right?

Final point. What if the WIFE'S argument is right?

 

[Mink57]

She said Nothing Happened! And they believed her, but she was lying.

Ridiculous. As if women knew before men that women get pregnant through sex. Unbelievable.

Oh yeah? What if God came down and told you to submitt to your husband? Would you obey the Lord or not?

What if God came down and told you to submit to your WIFE? Would you obey the Lord or not?

I dont believe that. God already told women to submit to their husbands and they wont do it. Even you.

God told us...that is EVERYONE...that we should submit to ONE ANOTHER and they won't. Even you.

 

[Wrangler]

The ARROGANCE from you is stunning. Who decides, who judges if the WIFE'S argument is wrong?

I’ve asked this question before but you ignored it. God is a God of order and he says the husband decides. Hence, the wife is required to submit to him and must respect him. This is unequal burden.

The devil is a god of chaos. According to the evil ideology of feminism, who decides when a husband and wife cannot agree?

 

[Wrangler]

No, it isn't unconditional.

LOL. I Showed how it was unconditional. There is certainly no verse that gives the wife veto power over her husbands lordship, headship and authority over her.

 

[Wrangler]

Final point. What if the WIFE'S argument is right?

LOL. Can’t answer a question with a question.

If the husband is right and the wife refuses to submit, she is in violation of God’s order. This is true even if he is wrong.

You are putting yourself on par with God, which reveals your god complex and lack of humility. Insubordination is not a function of the order being right or wrong. And I think you are smart enough to realize it.

So, I 'obey' him, and he gets us ALL killed...???

You are hysterical. Perhaps a few more question marks would make you more emphatic.

You and EVERYONE could just as well all die for not obeying him. Honestly, the consistency in which you conceive yourself as THE VICTIM AND IT IS MAN’s FAULT is disturbing.

 

[MA2444]

Ridiculous. As if women knew before men that women get pregnant through sex. Unbelievable.

Oh, come on, no sense of humour?

What if God came down and told you to submit to your WIFE? Would you obey the Lord or not?

Absolutely I would, He said I can be the Boss! Hon go make us some sandwiches, lol.

God told us...that is EVERYONE...that we should submit to ONE ANOTHER and they won't. Even you.

That is correct.

But I did. I was under the assumption that Happy Wife, Happy Life was the thing to do. I wont now because I found it in scripture where it tells me to not to give my strength to a woman. (That means my Leadrship. And I think it says in the next chapter, what God has Ordained let no woman usurp? Something like that, lol.

 

[MA2444]

What if God came down and told you to submit to your WIFE? Would you obey the Lord or not?

You actually dodged the question I asked you and simply asked me a question!
...and you just said it was man's fault for your problems, lol.

 

[MA2444]

No, it isn't unconditional. Again, your ARROGANCE is shocking. You don't follow God, *I* don't 'obey'.

That just may be the source of your bad luck with men?

So, I 'obey' him, and he gets us ALL killed...??? Yeah, really GOOD reasoning.

Hello? What about God in all this? You know as well as I do that the Lord looks at the heart and a mans intentions, not if he finishes with perfection! If the man made a bad call, but did it from a position of honorable protective duty and accidently got you killed, then don't you think that the Lord would reward you fot that iinjustice done to you?

Paul said to die is to gain, to live is Christ. So you would lose nothing.

Final point. What if the WIFE'S argument is right?

Then I would prolly say, huh good idead honey lets go with that.
But many times the womans argument is not right. My wife used to do that to me! We'd be talking about something that I know about and, she would ever so politely explain to me that I was wrong, but I know better! A couple months ago I let a female get me to help her at her rental house with rewireing some wires that the last tenants stole for the scrap. Now that's my trade and I know how to do it and the building code and all that. It's what I do! And all I needed her for was to flip the light switch on and off so I could check if I had it right for connection..she comes down and starts telling me how to do my job, with some of the stupidest stuff I've ever heard! I wont work for her any more. That was weird and her argument (???!!) was very wrong and she only got in the way and slowed my work down to where...it didnt happen! Geezow, I have to identify the circuit(s) with my meter to know I am hooking the wires up right.

I guess she thought I should have been rght on the first try, so she wanted to help? That's not how it works. It takes a bit of time with an electric meter to identify connection points to the myriad of wires are all in the correct place!

 

[Webers_Home]

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ACTIVIST: Shouldn't Christians be supporting equal pay for equal work?

REPLY: No.

ACTIVIST: Why Not?

REPLY: Because it makes juniors equal to seniors; and invalidates the
firstborn's preeminence.

ACTIVIST: Christianity believes men deserve more pay for equal work than
women due to the principle of primogeniture?

REPLY: The man was created first. Afterwards, material was taken from the
man's body to construct the woman, viz: the man and the woman weren't
siblings: they were related to each other as father and daughter.

ACTIVIST: Don't Christians believe in the separation of Church and State?

REPLY: Whereas the Bill Of Rights prevents the US Government from
establishing a nationwide religion to which all US citizens must conform; the
Bill does not prohibit US citizens from applying a religion's spiritual values in
their personal political philosophies.

ACTIVIST: So in your spiritual opinion; equal pay for equal work is a humanistic
aberration of the divine blueprint, so to speak?

REPLY: Yes.
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