Strength and Honor: Triumphing over Feminism

[Wynona]

Was trying to find a pamper playlist and came across this song. Superfruit -Guy.exe

Lyrics say

Wish I could synthesize
A picture perfect guy
Oh I, oh I
Where all the boys at with emotional stability?
Nice car, a CEO, and almost just as smart as me
Where all the boys at with financial security?
A doctor, a model, a man of possibilities
They say
Expectations are too high
And you'll never find a guy like that
It's driving you mad, honey
They say
That its just a waste of time
Get your head out of the sky
But why?
Here we go
Oh I, wish I could synthesize
A picture perfect guy
Oh I, oh I
Six feet tall and super strong
We'd always get along
Alright, alright
Ooh, he'd pick me up at eight
And not a minute late
'Cause I don't like to wait, no
Kind and ain't afraid to cry
Or treat his mama right
That's right, that's what I like
I need a man who don't get jealous 'less I want him to
A gentleman to take care of me in the bedroom
Romantic love but keep it rough
Am I asking too much?
They say
Expectations are too high
And you'll never find a guy like that
It's driving you mad, honey
They say
That its just a waste of time
Get your head out of the sky
But why?
Oh I, wish I could synthesize
A picture perfect guy
Oh I, oh I
Six feet tall and super strong
We'd always get along
Alright, alright (alright, oh no no)...


Thats not the end but lyrics repeat. Oh boy. We want a strong, career success who's six feet tall, emotionally stable, not afraid to cry, treats his mama right, has a nice car and is ALmost as smart as the woman (or man???)

Oh and he and you always get along. Am I missing anything? We don't want to get the expectations wrong.

Now. What sort of woman does this perfect guy want? Okay. Now who does he want for more than a night?

Most romance movies say its the feisty mouthy go getter woman who can give him a challenge. I disagree.

 

[Mink57]

I wanted to talk about some major slept on Scriptures: Genesis 2:18 and Titus 2:3-5

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. (Genesis 2:18)

It's interesting that you seem to begin your hypothesis with Genesis 2 while ignoring Genesis 1.

Eve is the help meet and the companion of Adam. The first woman, taken out of man.Together they are one flesh, not roommates or two parties with two sets of competing interests.

I wanted my husband to lead and asked him to before we got married, which was anew idea for him. But I had a hard time submitting with any consistency in the beginning because I failed to understand Genesis 2:18.

Interesting how Genesis 2:18 says nothing about the "submission" of a wife. Eve said, "I have produced a man with the HELP of the Lord." One cannot automatically assume that if Eve was created AFTER Adam, that her helpfulness is somehow less than. After all the holy spirt is to referred to by Jesus as a "helper". Does that mean the holy spirity is 'less than'? God refers to himself as one who 'helps'. Does that mean that God is less than us?

Like many feminist influenced women, I was taugtht that I had to secure my own interests first through education and career so that I could not be taken advantage of as a wife and mother. My degree and career would guarantee some security and freedom should my marriage go haywire.

Not bad advice, considering how many marriages go haywire.

This mindset is not cleaving to your spouse. It is not biblical.

Wait a sec...the bible only mentions that the MAN cleave to HIS WIFE. Not the other way around.

Instead of focusing on helping my husband in his calling, I was focused on securing myself as an individual party and I just could not submit to my husband's wishes that would lead me to fully commit to him and fully invest in the marriage.

Submission works BOTH ways. And that IS biblical!

This independent mindset led to actions I now am ashamed of and almost shipwrecked my marriage. It was in that wreckage that I learned to treasure God's Word above my own ways.

Let me point out Titus 2:3-5 in my next post.

 

[Mink57]

3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
(Titus 2:3-5)


I love the Word of God. But the best way for me to honor it and point to it is not to get up on a stage somewhere and call myself a pastor, usurping the order that men are called to.

I don't need to be seen by a crowd to serve and I don't need to be a pastor to be in ministry. God sees every contribution made at home that is done out of love and that is more than enough.

When I love my husband and obey him, God's Word is on display. When I keep my home increasingly well, God is honored. When I prioritize my children over my selfish desires, it will ensure they have no reason to resent the faith.

Obeying my husband is not about how deserving he is in a moment. It is about the Word of God being honored. It is a direct reflection of my reverence for the Lord.

My career is helping my husband. It's my ministry. Its where other ministries flow from. It is vitally important. I don't need to be a pastor up in front to be important. I just need to follow God's Word.

So...from what's been written on this thread, do you believe that ALL husbands deserve that kind of 'obedience'?

 

[Mink57]

Oh I know, the dating pool is getting mighty thin for women. Half the men are gay or transformer, the other half are drunks or druggies, othrs are just bums and want to live off the women and wont hold down a job, and out of the seven men left over on the planet which are good men...they're all already married!

LOL!!! Yes, you're right. Honestly, I have not even attempted to date for the past 10+ years. And because of what I've seen/heard about 'what's out there', I'm not even tempted to try. But the thing is that you already KNOW this. So to say something like, “What's YOUR responsibility in all of this?” I kinda laugh.

And from reading your other post (which I'll comment on later) SOME WOMEN ARE JUST AS BAD. So, I'm not unrealistic about knowing what the 'score' is.

So I understand women's plight. It is hard for them to find a man who will treat them properly and just love them and fulfill their responsibilities so women started getting very competitive and dying thier hair blue to get more attention. I never dated a woman with blue hair in my life. We called them girls Tropical fish. (good chance their poisonous!). I keep right on walking.

LOL!! I'm sorry, but I HAVE to laugh at this! I'm laughing because I'm planning on dying my hair TODAY. Not an unnatural color. I never dyed it blue, green, pink or even more natural colors, like black or blond.

They get their extra attention that they want and then keep sleeping with the bad boys who only bring their seed to the table. So the good men backed off now! And with the advent of commonly available DNA tests it has been shown that fully 30% of men are raising someone elses child. 30 men out of 100...

I'm sure that was prevalent even in 'olden times'. Then again, there's the same plight of being with a man who has multiple 'baby mamas'...and may not even know it. Again, both sides can be guilty of this.

So what I think happened is that once women start playing the attention game and became promiscuous then later on she is unable to be satisfied by one man. And the man that fathered the baby is bum looking to score. Then the women look around them at all the good men that they have friend zoned and pick a suitable man to provide and raise the child.

I'm sure you're right, and I'm glad you're seeing that some men can be just as bad as some women.

Not fair! ot fair at all. Lying scheming women. They got away with it for a long time, but it's catching up to them every time a man says no...

Got away with it? What about the MEN who have “gotten away with it'?

I'm not sympathetic with those women at all. It's getting so a man cant even raise a family anymore because he would have to share her with the neighbrohood and raise the lies of her exploits.And those feminists who have high standards in a man, lol. He must be 6' tall or more, and make $250,000 year and pay all her bills and keep her...but not be insecure and limit her freedom, for she is a strong independant woman and he better just get used to it.
Be a man and do all of your responsibilities, and no, I dont cook or clean, hire a nanny if you want that!

You DO realize that not ALL women...or even ALL feminists...are looking for a man who's 6' tall, and who makes $250K a year...and pay all of HER bills...and be some kind of 'kept' wom

Umm, No. No wonder men have started ignoring women. There's more and more tropical fish all the time so it aint worth it. She has too many demands for me! But you know what? It is sooo peaceful here at my house. I live alone, just me and the Lord here. And I love it. I've been asked out 4 times by women since I've been here, lol. Nope sorry.

I've lived alone myself for about 6 years now. The first 5 years before that were spent as a live-in caregiver for my mom. But it's also peaceful here at MY house. I can wake up when I want, without a man insisting that I cook breakfast for him while he lounges in bed. I can go where I want, WHEN I want, without a man telling me, "No. You have to stay HOME."

There ARE more 'modern men' out there who, while they believe in God, they don't believe that ONLY women are to be 'submissive' to him. They believe in being submissive to each other, as Ephesians ALSO says.

 

[MA2444]

Women being help meets implies...men need help. Maybe they don't start out with all their vision and all their stuff together but guess what? That is a lot of work. Is he just supposed to become high value just for himself?

Yeah! They are supposed to help the man build their life together and help him. If she does this with no drama then when she hits the wall for marketable in the dating world the Husband remembers and will continue to love her for the rest of her life for it.

My wife helped me build my business. She was my secretary and she was smart and good with numbers. She was so good that two different times other companies thought she was my office girl and tried to hire her away from me to be their office girl because she was just so good on the phone and was very pleseant. We were doing 6 figures for several yeras. But when the economy started sliding in the late 90s and people tightened upand dropped below 6 figures and it was ok for awhie but as soon as she hit 40, she could see 50 coming real fast so she left me before she hit the wall, at the last minute for her so to speak. To try and marry a millionaire she said. She date d a millionaire! But she showed a sense of entitlement and tried to demand that he marry her. (lol). That guy called me up and begged me to call her and tell her to come home, lol!
No Tag Backs! She's your problem now. So she didnt get her millionaire. She got a retired disabled cop? Lol, they dont make much. He aint no millionaire unless he was on the take maybe? Who knows, I wish her well. I cant take her back though, ever. I cant trust her anymore.

She was a great wife and secretary and Mother though. I dated some women post divorce. I wont step down. And no one that I dated was any better than she was. Sorely lacking is an accurate description. Being choosy sure cuts the pool down a lot, lot. But Men and WOmen are choosy for different reasons though.

 

[MA2444]

Interesting how Genesis 2:18 says nothing about the "submission" of a wife. Eve said, "I have produced a man with the HELP of the Lord." One cannot automatically assume that if Eve was created AFTER Adam, that her helpfulness is somehow less than. After all the holy spirt is to referred to by Jesus as a "helper". Does that mean the holy spirity is 'less than'? God refers to himself as one who 'helps'. Does that mean that God is less than us?

I bet the first time that eve got pregnant that Adam had no clue why Eve's belly was swelling and getting bigger! Maybe he wondered if it was part of the curse for him falling?

On a more serious note, that's sorta what I asked earlier. If a woman can not be submissive to a man, then will she be submissive to God later on? r will she think she is above God?
The time for learning these things, not after we go to heaven!. This on earth is God's University of Love to teach us. So practice it.

Sorry didnt mean to butt in.

 

[MA2444]

One cannot automatically assume that if Eve was created AFTER Adam, that her helpfulness is somehow less than.

No one said that. She is a help meet for him. He has seniority and has the last word in disagreements but she is not less than anything! She provides...completion. Eve was taken out of Adam to be created. So when she walks back up to him and says I do...there is no less than present. There is completion present.

You cant ethically usurp Adams seniority and leadership on personal whims for yourself. That's incorrect thinking and not biblical at all. It doesnt make the woman less, nothing wrong with being under authority and leadership. God created us for Himself so we can worship Him and bring glory to Him.

No bickering in the ranks!! Lol.

 

[MA2444]

Submission works BOTH ways. And that IS biblical!

I can agree with that. But letting the women run the household and even the purse strings is for during peace time. Women seem to like handling money and the man just wants a family, so money is just a means to an end. That was my view and it did turn out to be a mistake because it spoiled her.

And other things which come up, I want to eat at one place but she wants to eat at a different place. I cant count how many times she won I gave in and we ate where she wanted to. Or which movie to watch. Where do we go on a vacation. Who got to pick the destination? She did! We went to Vegas and had a great time. Didnt win much but enough to pay for the expenses of the trip and hotel and sent us home with $800 so that was a good choice!
But those are al peace time activities. If a serious situation comes up, we look to the senior for guidance. Yeah, that means the Woman looks to the man, and the Man looks to God. Scripture talks about being in agreement with the wife on certain things.

What in the world is wrong with that? What is it that you would seek to do that is impossible to do if you were "submissive" to your man?

 

[Wynona]

One cannot automatically assume that if Eve was created AFTER Adam, that her helpfulness is somehow less than. After all the holy spirt is to referred to by Jesus as a "helper". Does that mean the holy spirity is 'less than'? God refers to himself as one who 'helps'. Does that mean that God is less than us?

No. I like how you point out Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I consider their role a great reason why being a helper is not to be denigrated or disrespected. Jesus did indeed submit to the Father in everything. And the Father exalted Him back. He did not feel the need to grasp this for Himself. That is a lesson I had to learn.

So...from what's been written on this thread, do you believe that ALL husbands deserve that kind of 'obedience'?

No. But wives are to obey anyway. Why?

The reputation of God's Word ...Titus 2:5.

1 Peter 3: 1-6 ---we can win our disobeying husbands to Christ without words with reverent and pure conduct.

Actions can win a husband toward Christ. Not necessarily nagging him to be a better person or be more spiritual. I can see in my own life that when I quieted down my criticism, my husband heard God more, and grew.

Thank you for asking.

All wives certainly do not deserve the love they crave. Yet it's still the right thing for a husband to do. Love his wife.

 

[Wynona]

@Mink57 says married couples submit to one another. Is this true? Let's look at Ephesians 5, starting in verse 17
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.




Based on the verse in context, I'd argue that 21, submit to one another, is addressed to the church body as a congregation. But in verse 22, he addresses wives specifically, telling them to submit to their husbands and why---the husband is the head.

This is not conditional on the deservingness of the man, because the marriage represents Christ's headship of the church by virtue of the man being a man and the woman being a woman in the marriage.

"24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing."

This is something the wife must do, not something she should be coerced or threatened into doing. It's her decision to live out the role of the church toward Christ out of reverence for God.

 

[MA2444]

No. But wives are to obey anyway. Why?

The reputation of God's Word ...Titus 2:5.

1 Peter 3: 1-6 ---we can win our disobeying husbands to Christ without words with reverent and pure conduct.

Actions can win a husband toward Christ. Not necessarily nagging him to be a better person or be more spiritual. I can see in my own life that when I quieted down my criticism, my husband heard God more, and grew.

Thank you for asking.

All wives certainly do not deserve the love they crave. Yet it's still the right thing for a husband to do. Love his wife.

I never heard a woman talk like you do before. Your something special as that woman I think. Let's hope & pray that your husband realizes it too.

A good woman is a huge help to a man. Essential for completion.

 

[Wynona]

I never heard a woman talk like you do before. Your something special as that woman I think. Let's hope & pray that your husband realizes it too.

A good woman is a huge help to a man. Essential for completion.

Thank you.

I get self conscious at being praised at times. I used to think being at home most of the time was boring, serving selflessly was for chumps, and that I was not suited for marriage. And I wasn't. But God had mercy on me. I begged to change and He helped me change through His Word.

So I feel humbled at being called special but yet another Scripture is fulfilled.

30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised. (Proverbs 31:30)

 

[Wynona]

I see a desperate need for Christians here in America and other western countries to abandon their own thinking and seek the counsel of God's Word.

Feminism can never replace this counsel. God wrote His Word so that those who surrender to it are blessed to the thousandth generation. Scripture is like food. It must be chewed on and digested and tucked away in our hearts every day.

 

[Wynona]

Was just asking and discussing with my husband---how can submitting 'adorn' a woman? I didn't understand at first.

​

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:

6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

I have thoughts but does anyone else want to answer?

How does submitting 'adorn' a woman?

 

[Wynona]

@Mink57

also brought up seniority of men to say it wasn't so but I disagree that there is no biblical proof that creation order matters.

Here comes a "purposefully humbling" set of verses addressing women speaking in church.

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

(1 Timothy 2:11-15)



In Genesis, there is no Scripture that says Adam knew the fruit Eve gave was the forbidden fruit. Yet they are one flesh. He must take responsibility even for her actions.

Its not a "that was just for that time and culture thing". Paul took it back to Genesis.

 

[MA2444]

Thank you.

I get self conscious at being praised at times. I used to think being at home most of the time was boring, serving selflessly was for chumps, and that I was not suited for marriage. And I wasn't. But God had mercy on me. I begged to change and He helped me change through His Word.

So I feel humbled at being called special but yet another Scripture is fulfilled.

30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised. (Proverbs 31:30)

Straight out of Proverbs 31! I didnt get to marry a Proverbs 31 wife. I bet there could be maybe four more in the world? My wife was good but she wasnt a Proverbs 31 wife. It's amazing to hear any woman say such things that you do! And it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks, so you sound like the real deal!

Waitaminute, I have to be fair to women. There has to be more than four left. My trade for almost 30 years was going to 6 to 10 different houses to fix things. Plumbing, broken furnace, A/C, whatever. And I never hit on any girl at work. There's a seperation of Business and pleasure, unwritten rule, lol. But when I think about how many women I met at home when the husband is at work, is astounding. And I can tell by how they carry themself if maybe they could be a proverbs 31 wife. They have pictures all over and carry themselves with poise and dignity that's awesome. And also everything inbetween a proverbs 31 type girls down to the ones which came on to me! I never never did that though, I walked out politely. I had to, I was married and my business was my wife and kids livlyhood. So nothing can interfere with family business/family money, that's serious. Before I went in business I worked at another company and saw a guy lose his job over having *ex with a customer! Him and his helper went to change out the water heater and the girl came on to him. So he let the helper install the water heater while he had *ex with the lady...3 days later the shop received some mail from her that said, I had *ex with your man when he was out here, so I consider this water heater bill to be paid...!!!
They took the lost water heater out of his check and fired him. What an idiot!

That stuff dont fly when you have a family. He had a family and lost his job. I didnt want to be that guy! But I was in so many different houses that I prolly could have met 20 Proverbs 31 type wives I dont know if they were because, I was not approching them! I got to work for some very nice ladies. They are not all Tropical fish, for the street.

 

[Wynona]

Straight out of Proverbs 31! I didnt get to marry a Proverbs 31 wife. I bet there could be maybe four more in the world? My wife was good but she wasnt a Proverbs 31 wife. It's amazing to hear any woman say such things that you do! And it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks, so you sound like the real deal!

Waitaminute, I have to be fair to women. There has to be more than four left. My trade for almost 30 years was going to 6 to 10 different houses to fix things. Plumbing, broken furnace, A/C, whatever. And I never hit on any girl at work. There's a seperation of Business and pleasure, unwritten rule, lol. But when I think about how many women I met at home when the husband is at work, is astounding. And I can tell by how they carry themself if maybe they could be a proverbs 31 wife. They have pictures all over and carry themselves with poise and dignity that's awesome. And also everything inbetween a proverbs 31 type girls down to the ones which came on to me! I never never did that though, I walked out politely. I had to, I was married and my business was my wife and kids livlyhood. So nothing can interfere with family business/family money, that's serious. Before I went in business I worked at another company and saw a guy lose his job over having *ex with a customer! Him and his helper went to change out the water heater and the girl came on to him. So he let the helper install the water heater while he had *ex with the lady...3 days later the shop received some mail from her that said, I had *ex with your man when he was out here, so I consider this water heater bill to be paid...!!!
They took the lost water heater out of his check and fired him. What an idiot!

That stuff dont fly when you have a family. He had a family and lost his job. I didnt want to be that guy! But I was in so many different houses that I prolly could have met 20 Proverbs 31 type wives I dont know if they were because, I was not approching them! I got to work for some very nice ladies. They are not all Tropical fish, for the street.

Were out here. I dont know if Scripture is optimistic about how many of us are. But I usually meet these type of women online by looking for content on biblical womanhood or Titus 2 ministry.

There is a facebook group called Traditional Christian Wives. A lot of them are really kind of new to it all. It blesses me to see the younger single ladies there who already have that Godly mentality that I wish I had had.

They have such a desire to honor God with their engagement process and just wanting to learn from Godly older women ---who are supposed to be teaching them anyway.

The thing is, there is a hiddenness to a Proverbs 31 woman. Like a ruby. God wants it that way. A man must seek her out if he really wants a wife like this.

 

[Wynona]

Random thought but many men get fulfillment spending money for their wives that is not the same the other way around.

I posted elsewhere a quote about how a wife can bless her husband by living frugally but a wife can overdo this.

Too much going without and penny pinching depresses and somewhat insults my particular husband.

It got to the point where he demanded that I just spend something on myself. The thing is, I usually love shopping but if I think not spending is helpful, I can overdo a savings mindset.

He explained that its no good if I enter the same level of sacrifice as him and act all serious with every single purchase.

He'd rather see me act giddy over some pointless, whimsical thing that makes me happy, and figure out a way to purchase it for me.

I suppose there is a risk to submitting, that you just never get to do things your way again. Especially if your husband is cartoonishly selfish and tyrannical and feels the need to control every last detail of your life. Id say blue collar men don't have the extra energy for all that! My husband hates small details. Just, do whatever pleases you, boo.

My husband told me that the point of him taking on as much burden as he does is that I have the easier burden. There is no point to me being a housewife, he said, if I am just as stressed as he is. I suppose overdoing frugality was me trying to take on some of his burden, which he didn't like.

"Think more like the stereotypical floozy who gets Daddy's money and gets men to buy her stuff. How does she get it? She does a little pout but acts genuinely happy and carefree when getting the stuff and the men like that "

II still kind of find this difficult to understand. Its a lot easier for me to focus on either spending a lot or not spending at all. But I do see how fun I act when getting something I love that may not be practical, but keeps a dream alive.

 

[Wrangler]

Interesting how Genesis 2:18 says nothing about the "submission" of a wife.

You are so lost! Just ignore all the verses that say you shall not murder. Isn't it interesting how so many verses don't say anything against murdering someone?

 

[Wrangler]

So...from what's been written on this thread, do you believe that ALL husbands deserve that kind of 'obedience'?

Again, you are lost. Willful denial.

It's been explained to you over and over again by several posters now that the Bible requires unconditional obedience. The whole idea that feminists put themselves in God's position to judge is anti-Biblical.