Strength and Honor: Triumphing over Feminism

[MA2444]

Ephesians 5 begins with the sentence: "Submit to ONE ANOTHER out of reverence for Christ." Unfortunately, so many people IGNORE this sentence and go straight the next sentence about wives 'submitting' to their husbands. For them, it's more important that SHE 'submit' than the husband submit.

Do you think women are dominant? Leaders? That seems like the direction you are headed.

And Mama Bears arent more tenable than the male bears. The male bears run from the Mama bear when she is upset, (again) and dont want to deal with that crap so run! He could kick her butt in a second...but, that's the Mama Bear, who wants to do that? It's not that they're superior to men but that they are special in their own way and maybe it went to the womens head too much.

It happened to me. I should not have spoiled my wife. She thought she was more than she is because of me. So when the money got tight she hit the road to marry up...and she is not doing very good now. But whats a guy to do. She left. Superior her, good luck.

 

[MA2444]

Honestly, I hardly ever act on my authority in my marriage. It is much easier for me to submit to her than for her to submit to me. I told her friends when we first got together that I believe the woman should make most of the decisions in the house - BUT that I reserve the right to make the final decision. Her friends were 100% OK with that. They were her Pastor and his wife.

That's exactly how it was with me. She was catholic and me Christian and boy oh boy she would get mad if I wanted to put a couple bucks in the church collection plate. (Her Money) Lol. But I let her run the house and decorate oit however she wanted and manage All the bills. I gave her all my money and she was bookkeeper for home and Business. I didnt care. Money dont mean that much to me. It was a means to an end. That being Married with Children. So who cares if she managed the money, it made her feel happy and anytime not fighting is a good time! If I sounded like an idiot...I was then. I used to think show her a drop of pure love everyday...Then I thought, what about sloshing her with a 5 gallon bucketfull?! And she loved it. But it was a huge mistake because it spoiled her rotten.

But the women are in control (during Peacetime) in tis country. They handle most of the country's income in the home. They have the purse strings. And that's fine who cares about trying to hoard money and have secret stashes and all that crap?....(Oh yeah, that's right. I should have, lol!)

But you let a crises start in the country when it changes to war time insead of peacetime, things can change overnight. Finances may be beyond reach, the country will prolly be in a blackout. That's when the girls will hand the reins over to the man and say, ok feed us, protect us, you do it....and the man has to be ready because that is his responsibility!

I cant honey because you told me I couldnt buy any guns? That would be embarassing!

 

[MA2444]

Responsability is a compound word. Two words make it up. Response. and Ability.
Which means we have the Ability to respond to any situation and make the right choices for a correct response to, whatever.
The buck stops here with Man. WOmen can play their games and have their fun while they can but they know they need a man in the long run.

They just dont want any responsiibility or accountability!

 

[Wynona]

Especially when children come into the picture.

A young man, 29 yo, told me he is looking for a woman to marry who is willing to raise their children full time. He cannot find such a woman. All he finds are women ensnared by feminism, content to outsource the raising of their own children 50 hours per week.

I saw a similar man commenting on Youtube except he was 43, never married. Gen Z (my generation) men are becoming more conservative but the women are very liberal still.

 

[Mink57]

No human system is going to be perfect.

Human system?! Interesting. One Christian claims that Patriarchy is a God-given system. YOU, another Christain, claim it's a 'human system'. Which is it?

Genesis 3:16
16 To the woman he said,

“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be contrary to[a] your husband,
but he shall rule over you.”

It sounds right even though it is not fair. Many things are not fair but still right.

See what I wrote to Wynona about this:

After the fall, God ordains that "her desire will be for her husband and he shall rule over her".

That was not an "ordination"; it was a prediction by God to Eve. At no time did God tell ADAM that HE shall rule over Eve. It was never a command to Adam (or men, PERIOD) that Adam...or men...should rule over their wives.

Consider this a moment, Wrangler. The Pharisee's asked Jesus about the Jews giving their wives a bill of divorce. And Jesus also added, (I'm paraphrasing) that it was not like that from the beginning. In other words, "from the beginning", there was no divorce. In fact, Jesus repeats the words from Genesis that

And likewise, with Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve weren't created into patriarchy. In fact, before the 'Fall', Genesis states that "...a man leaves his father and mother and cleaves unto his wife..." It says nothing about a woman leaving HER parents and cleaving unto her husband.

Patriarchy didn't occur until AFTER the Fall. So, it's not that Patriarchy was established "from the beginning."

The wisdom of the ancients is lost in our feminized world. By removing that constraint, women now initiate 80% of divorces. When the law was written to support the life long vow, women could still get divorced. They should had to abandon all their property and children.

Back then, the average woman could not obtain a divorce. Divorce was only afforded to the wealthy MEN and a few women who had more of a political 'in'. Let's not forget that the common MEN were able to get divorced LONG BEFORE the common woman was. Of course, this was before No-Fault divorces when one actually had to prove 'grounds' for their case, AND, women held to a higher standard of that ''proof". And it wasn't a question of a woman 'abandoning all their property and children' because back then, the law saw marital property AND children as belonging to the husband.

Can't take ONE vow and make it more important than the others. There's also the life-long vows of "forsaking all others"..."in sickness and in health"..."for richer or for poorer."

Let's also remember that 'traditional' wedding vows are NOT Biblical.

This is called taxing undesirable behavior.

Now, we subside undesirable behavior through transfer of wealth payments. A couple of decades ago the women would get the house, kids AND they father had to pay to have his children raised in a manner against his will. Does not sound fair to you?

Like I mentioned above, for CENTURIES before that, MEN 'owned' the house (property) AND the kids. All he had to do was to divorce his wife, and he'd get to KEEP everything else. Does THAT sound fair to YOU?

What a sexist! As if feminists are not obsessed with status, power, personal rights and autonomy.

Apparently, you didn't read what I wrote. In my post #386, I wrote to Wynona:

Christians are not supposed to be obsessed with status, power, or even personal rights and autonomy. We are called to serve and expect persecution in the process.

Men can be obsessed with status, power, personal rights and autonomy. Even if they're Christian.
Women can be obsessed with status, power, personal right and autonomy. Even if they're Christian.

Go back and re-read what I wrote.

No. It acknowledges the male superiority in taking responsibility.

Untrue. The words are not there but I trust you are not making a semantic argument. See GE 3:16. 1 Peter 3:7. Genesis 18:12

Many males don't WANT that responsibility.

 

[Wynona]

Great wisdom there!

It's sad that so many women today do what is unsatisfying, exhausting to them and drains them spiritually to live according to todays's feminist consumerism ideals.

Before my 2nd marriage I made my wife an offer. I told her if she gives up her car, she can stop working out of the home and I'll pay all the bills. She declined. Maybe eventually I could afford 2 cars but she was not willing to sacrifice a material possession for the life style she said she preferred.

We still share a car, my husband and I. It's not that living on one income comes without sacrifices. We just find it so worth it. The stress of me also working outside the home is not worth an extra car to pay for and maintain.

The thing about life is that you can't have it all but you can prioritize what's important.

A wise homemaker once said to avoid the mindset of constantly leaving home if you're a homemaker because it takes a lot of energy to leave the home. I also think the mindset of always wanting to leave leads to temptation.

 

[Mink57]

Great wisdom there!

It's sad that so many women today do what is unsatisfying, exhausting to them and drains them spiritually to live according to todays's feminist consumerism ideals.

Before my 2nd marriage I made my wife an offer. I told her if she gives up her car, she can stop working out of the home and I'll pay all the bills. She declined. Maybe eventually I could afford 2 cars but she was not willing to sacrifice a material possession for the life style she said she preferred.

Maybe she didn't want to sacrifice her car because she felt she'd be sacrificing her FREEDOM.

Would YOU be willing to sacrifice YOUR car?

 

[Wynona]

Ironically, not ALL of the tenets of "Bible patriarchy" are consistent with the BIBLE.

What tenets do you mean specifically?

The Bible does say Christians should submit to one another. That does not cancel out the roles of husbands and wives.

1 Corinthians 11:3
King James Version
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.



I'm not sure how anyone can get around authority and male leadership being a biblical idea with verses like the one above.

 

[Mink57]

Do you think women are dominant? Leaders? That seems like the direction you are headed.

Nope. I quoted Ephesians 5 about 'submitting TO ONE ANOTHER.' Does that REALLY sound like I think women are dominant?
If we're supposed to submit to one another, then I propose that NEITHER men nor women are dominant over the other.

And Mama Bears arent more tenable than the male bears. The male bears run from the Mama bear when she is upset, (again) and dont want to deal with that crap so run! He could kick her butt in a second...but, that's the Mama Bear, who wants to do that? It's not that they're superior to men but that they are special in their own way and maybe it went to the womens head too much.

...you mean, sort of like patriarchy and the belief that men are 'superior' went to MEN'S heads too much?

It happened to me. I should not have spoiled my wife. She thought she was more than she is because of me. So when the money got tight she hit the road to marry up...and she is not doing very good now. But whats a guy to do. She left. Superior her, good luck.

I wouldn't know. Never been spoiled a day in my life. In fact, it was quite the opposite. It was the MEN in my life who wanted to be spoiled by me.

 

[Wynona]

Men can be obsessed with status, power, personal rights and autonomy. Even if they're Christian.
Women can be obsessed with status, power, personal right and autonomy. Even if they're Christian.

I call that hypocrisy. I was a hypocrite myself so I get it. But it's wrong.

 

[MA2444]

...you mean, sort of like patriarchy and the belief that men are 'superior' went to MEN'S heads too much?

I said superior thinking in an overall sort of way. Men can live without a woman easier than a woman can live without a man.

Dont believe me, look at the sports videos on youtube. A few days back I watched snippets from some sort of female soccer team, Well known for being accomplished in womens soccer. And they took on a soccer team of teen agers from some school I think. SO the girls wer "Pros" and the boys team were not pros just teenage boys. The shut the girls out! It was like 27/0 The girls hardly even could try to play because the boys wouldnt let them keep the ball!
So it's not that it went to mens heads, it's just always been that way. WOmen are less competant at many things than men. That is reality for us.
Women can make magic that men cant though and that's through childbirth. I was in the room for the birth of both of my sons...and it was hard. It looked so hard that I have thanked God that I was born a man, many times! Yeah girls sort of did get the short end of the stick. But that doesnt mean they are not Valuable to a man.

 

[Mink57]

What tenets do you mean specifically?

From Wikipedia:
"The "Tenets of Biblical Patriarchy" published by Vision Forum before their demise advocates such beliefs as:[6]

• God reveals Himself as masculine, not feminine.
• God ordained distinct gender roles for man and woman as part of the created order.
• A husband and father is the head of his household, a family leader, provider, and protector.
• Male leadership in the home carries over into the church: only men are permitted to hold ruling positions in the church. A God-honoring society will likewise prefer male leadership in civil and other spheres.
• Since the woman was created as a helper to her husband, as the bearer of children, and as a “keeper at home”, the God-ordained and proper sphere of dominion for a wife is the household and that which is connected with the home.
• God’s command to “be fruitful and multiply” still applies to married couples.
• Christian parents must provide their children with a thoroughly Christian education, one that teaches the Bible and the biblical view of God and the world.
• Both sons and daughters are under the command of their father as long as they are under his roof or as long as they are the recipients of his provision and protection.

Michael Farris notes three examples of patriarchal teaching: that women should not vote, that higher education is not important for women, and that "unmarried adult women are subject to their fathers’ authority."[7]"

Biblical patriarchy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Bible does say Christians should submit to one another. That does not cancel out the roles of husbands and wives.

1 Corinthians 11:3
King James Version
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
I'm not sure how anyone can get around authority and male leadership being a biblical idea with verses like the one above.

Paul often gave his own personal opinion on matters. Not everything he said was 'divinely inspired'.

 

[MA2444]

I wouldn't know. Never been spoiled a day in my life. In fact, it was quite the opposite. It was the MEN in my life who wanted to be spoiled by me.

Good for you! And I have to agree with you! I wanted to be spoiled by my wife in a womanly way. And she did too! That litlle girl could coook, mmm. She made a very mean sandwich! She used to pack my lunches and more than one time I had the best lunch of anyone there, even the boss said something about wow look at your lunch, must be nice. (He had bologna and I had built up sandwiches, tomatoes on the side so it dont get soggy. She was a wizard with that almost, lol! I do miss her cooking!

 

[Wynona]

Paul often gave his own personal opinion on matters. Not everything he said was 'divinely inspired'.

I disagree. When Paul gave an opinion, he specified that it was so. I believe this.

2 Timothy 3:16
King James Version
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If this is not true, it becomes all too easy to ignore Scriptures we don't personally like based on passing trends and fads of culture that are temporary anyway. Paul's teachings have been explained away as not being relevant today because it contradicts feminist trends about gender roles being destructive and obsolete.

Thus we miss the blessing of simply obeying God even when it doesn't appear to make sense culturally and 'leaning not on our own understanding'.

But living out every Word of God the best I can has done nothing but blessed me, even though I look weird to onlookers. God's ways are so much better than my individual wisdom and the fads that sound wise to everyone else.

 

[Mink57]

I said superior thinking in an overall sort of way. Men can live without a woman easier than a woman can live without a man.

LOLOL!!! Tell THAT to the women who have been THRIVING in the 'woman ONLY' village of Umoja for the past 34+ years! Men are BANNED from that village. And after the banning, the men went so far as to try to legally shut down the village (they failed). They even tried to start their own 'Men Only' village in competition with the women. They also failed. But the interesting thing was the reason behind WHY they failed. Their problem was that ALL of the men wanted to be The Boss, whereas, the women worked together in a spirit of fairness and cooperation with one another.

Besides, if God thought that a man could live without a woman 'easier', then why did He create a woman FOR him?

Dont believe me, look at the sports videos on youtube. A few days back I watched snippets from some sort of female soccer team, Well known for being accomplished in womens soccer. And they took on a soccer team of teen agers from some school I think. SO the girls wer "Pros" and the boys team were not pros just teenage boys. The shut the girls out! It was like 27/0 The girls hardly even could try to play because the boys wouldnt let them keep the ball!
So it's not that it went to mens heads, it's just always been that way. WOmen are less competant at many things than men.

ONE example is HARDLY a testimony to ALL men or ALL women. If those same teenage boys played a different team, who KNOWS what may have happened. I could easily use the example of Bobby Riggs vs. Billie Jean King as "proof" that WOMEN are 'better' in sports because she BEAT Riggs.

That is reality for us.
Women can make magic that men cant though and that's through childbirth. I was in the room for the birth of both of my sons...and it was hard. It looked so hard that I have thanked God that I was born a man, many times! Yeah girls sort of did get the short end of the stick. But that doesnt mean they are not Valuable to a man.

Women can "make magic" in other ways besides childbirth.

And THAT'S the whole point!

 

[Wynona]

We in our flesh think the person who submits is lesser than the one who is submitted to and the person who serves is less than the one who is served.

Yet Jesus said

11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. (Matthew 23:11)

And Paul said this of Jesus

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: (Phillipians 2:6-9)




Jesus submitted to the Father in all things. He considered the Father greater, yet it was God who exalted Jesus above every other being in creation! Let us be imitators of Jesus. Glory to His name!

We women need not consider it robbery to be made equal to man yet we should esteem others better than ourselves and serve trusting that in God's time He will exalt us and reveal to all creation our value in His sight.

 

[Wrangler]

Human system?! Interesting. One Christian claims that Patriarchy is a God-given system. YOU, another Christain, claim it's a 'human system'. Which is it?

What's interesting is that being a man-hating feminist, you are incapable of showing any respect and appreciation for the system that brought you the society, the safe, opulent, easy life and freedom you enjoy along with having an endless sense of entitlement with no humility. Endless coveting.

Feminists in the West are all for themselves, wanting an ever bigger piece of the pie they did not create. Not a word about women with far fewer rights than them in the world: silence on African women subjected to ritual genital mutilation; not a word of honor killing and total oppression of women in Islamic countries. Feminist allies, the alphabet people, have to invent things to be offended about. Now is misusing pronouns to suit their fancy! Where are the feminists marching in the street, angry for the plight of women in Africa and the Islamic world? Nowhere!

Your question reveals your god complex, setting standards designed to fail your opponent. Fortunately, you are not God. Allow some discernment to penetrate your man-hating feminist indoctrination. The Patriarchy is a God-given system and because it is managed by humans it is, as any human system, not going to be perfect.

Your lack of humility shines here in having no gratitude for the best possible system that is possible in a fallen world, where perfection eludes our grasp. That is where women fail! Can't get past the theoretical ideal. Men deal with reality, the practical aspects of living and this separates men and women more than just about anything else. Camille Paglia: A Feminist Defense of Masculine Virtues

If civilization had been left in female hands we would still be living in grass huts.
Camille Paglia

And my friend added, and feminists would still be complaining about it!

 

[Mink57]

I disagree. When Paul gave an opinion, he specified that it was so. I believe this.

While I agree that he did MOST of the time, I'm not inclined to believe that he did ALL of the time.

2 Timothy 3:16
King James Version
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If this is not true, it becomes all too easy to ignore Scriptures we don't personally like based on passing trends and fads of culture that are temporary anyway. Paul's teachings have been explained away as not being relevant today because it contradicts feminist trends about gender roles being destructive and obsolete.

How do we know if Scripture is 'Divinely Inspired'? Because someone else says so? Because they themselves say so? Too many Books were eliminated over time from the Bible we have today.

I don't believe that because something is "in the Bible" necessarily makes it a 'good' thing.

Thus we miss the blessing of simply obeying God even when it doesn't appear to make sense culturally and 'leaning not on our own understanding'.

O.k. Then how about paying more attention to what God and Jesus said in the Bible, and less attention to anyone else? Once again, God NEVER told ADAM to 'rule over' Eve.

But living out every Word of God the best I can has done nothing but blessed me, even though I look weird to onlookers. God's ways are so much better than my individual wisdom and the fads that sound wise to everyone else.

....which is GREAT...for YOU. As an unmarried woman, I also get the 'weird onlookers' who believe that women my age 'should' be married...that it's somehow 'wrong' for me to be 66 and single (widowed).

 

[Wrangler]

@Mink57, your silence on the plight of men is a testament to the insincerity of your commitment to equality.

Your covetousness always goes back to this. Why not focus on the inequality men suffer, like:

1. early death,
2. sexist laws that make 10 of 11 prisoners male,
3. homeless and suicide whose rates are nearly as bad,
4. 9 out of 10 killed in war and on the job,
5. reproductive male rights ignored.
6. unequal parental custody?

Your post shows feminists sin of coveting. Only looking where women are not equal while turning a blind eye to the inequality men suffer. Bad form.

 

[MA2444]

LOLOL!!! Tell THAT to the women who have been THRIVING in the 'woman ONLY' village of Umoja for the past 34+ years! Men are BANNED from that village. And after the banning, the men went so far as to try to legally shut down the village (they failed). They even tried to start their own 'Men Only' village in competition with the women. They also failed. But the interesting thing was the reason behind WHY they failed. Their problem was that ALL of the men wanted to be The Boss, whereas, the women worked together in a spirit of fairness and cooperation with one another.

I dont get it. What is umoga village? On some island somewhere or some cult of girls somewhere in the States? Men are banned from there? So what do they do when a sewer pipe breaks of the air conditioning goes out? Those girls fix that stuff too? If I need a bricklayer can I hire some girls to do that?

If this is some island village somewhere then they prolly dont need sewer lines or brick layers, so in that case big deal, the world's a big place. There's always an exception to the rule about everything. If this village a girls cult where their mad at men it was prolly started by a bunch of divorced women who raked their exhusbands across the coals to fund their getaway, lol. So I dont really see your point.

Besides, if God thought that a man could live without a woman 'easier', then why did He create a woman FOR him?

Hey I didnt divorce her. She divorced me. It is not good for the man to be alone. I liked being married. But she wanted to leave so I had to let her go. But she left to go try and marry a milionaire. When I dropped below 6 figures because of the economy, she couldnt hang with that and left. She divorced me and then (from what I hear) she demanded that the Lawyer boyfriend marry her because she deserved it and had given him her all....He showed her the door!
She said she would come back to me if I promised to buy her a BMW. I said heck no!
(she should have just come back as I would have taken her back...and then if she needed a car so what if she wanted a BMW?! But she had to play games so got turned down again. She's still working paying hr own bills and doesnt own her house. I own mine clear, no more payments! I'm content, I have it easier than she does. I wish her well but she made a mistake.

ONE example is HARDLY a testimony to ALL men or ALL women. If those same teenage boys played a different team, who KNOWS what may have happened. I could easily use the example of Bobby Riggs vs. Billie Jean King as "proof" that WOMEN are 'better' in sports because she BEAT Riggs.

So what? Yes it was one example. I notice you gave "one example" also. Dont you have a dozen examples of where women dominated over the men? Lol.
You want more examples about woen being beaten i sports by men? Ok
There was a video I watched the whole match! The girl was a black belt in...Jui Jitsu I think. And she took on a non martial artist young man in the ring, and he beat the crap out of her! He was tossing her all around. He had some body mass on her and the black belt didnt help.
There is Those Transformers in vollyball, boxing and a couple other sports playing against real women and the women dont stand a chance against a biological male.
In the volleyball video the transformer spiked the ball real hard and hit some girl in the face with the ball when he spiked it, and it knocked her to the ground flat!
I can prolly dig up some of these videos if you's like to watch some...??....!!! Want to?

Women can "make magic" in other ways besides childbirth.

And THAT'S the whole point!

I'll agree to that. Boy oh boy could my ex-wife cook! She was magic on the stove.
Can you make donuts over an open fire camping? She did! (I can now) Jelly filled and glazed, mmmm! Can you do that magic?

I'm not saying that women arent good at stuff. I'm not saying women are not valuable. I'm saying that it's laughable to think that women are superior to men. A woman completes a man. A man completes the woman. That's even scripture.

Tell me about how you can make magic in other ways besides childbirth?
Do you change your own flat tires?
If the roof leaks, are you the one to repair it?