So what does the divinity of Jesus really mean, anyway?

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Ritajanice

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Paul did, in Philippians 2:6. I posted a graphic of it in post #232 for your convenience.
That is what you believe, I don’t believe that.

Are you going to continue to push your belief onto me?

I’m more than happy to agree to disagree..I don’t believe Jesus is fully God.you believe he is.

Shall we stop batting that ball back and forth...I’m open minded,but, only to the Spirit, there is nothing in the word, that says Jesus is fully God.as far as the Spirit has led me to see.

Unfortunately man/ woman have a habit of forcing others to believe what they believe...that is not of God...it’s to do with pride and ego, imo.
 

Lambano

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Paul did, in Philippians 2:6. I posted a graphic of it in post #232 for your convenience.
Paul also said in Colossians 1:16 that Jesus was instrumental in Creation. That is something that is usually credited to God.

Colossians-1-Verse-16.jpg
 

Lambano

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That is what you believe, I don’t believe that.

Are you going to continue to push your belief onto me?

I’m more than happy to agree to disagree..I don’t believe Jesus is fully God.
I'm okay with saying Paul overstepped his bounds there in Philippians 2:6 and Colossians 1:16. Does that reflect poorly on his letter to the Romans?
 

Ritajanice

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I'm okay with saying Paul overstepped his bounds there in Philippians 2:6 and Colossians 1:16. Does that reflect poorly on his letter to the Romans?
As I said..I’m not pushing what I believe on to anyone, you are, that says a lot about you, good day.
 

Lambano

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Anyway, this thread is about "what does it really mean"? And the purpose of Philippians 2:6 is to exhort us to not hold on to our rights and privileges in order to serve God's purposes. THAT'S "what it really means".
 

Lambano

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As I said..I’m not pushing what I believe on to anyone, you are, that says a lot about you, good day.
Sigh. You asked for verses; I gave you verses.

Of course you are pushing what you believe, but that's okay. This is a discussion forum; it's where we push what we believe. And I don't necessarily believe it myself, but I do think I understand why the doctrine is what it is.

Good day to you too, Ma'am.
 

Ritajanice

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The wonderful thing about the Spirit is.

He will NEVER force his will onto us..he knows exactly how to get us to do the will of God...

Through his discipline and his Love....there is no better teacher/ helper than the Spirit.....a wonderful teacher....not soft not harsh...pure perfection..Praise God.

Being conformed into Jesus image, by the power that indwells our spirit, mind Blowing.the flesh wants to argue, the Spirit does not..I like to keep that at the forefront of my mind...beware as the enemy knows our weaknesses, will have us arguing before we are even aware of it.
 
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APAK

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Paul also said in Colossians 1:16 that Jesus was instrumental in Creation. That is something that is usually credited to God.

Colossians-1-Verse-16.jpg
Well first off, in Phil 2:6 it is seriously incorrect to say the Christ had the (exact) nature of God, as I believe you intended or meant. He was the image or in the form of God, and that also makes him not God, not deity and not divine. Over 95 percent of the translations I've read, and I've read dozens, does not say 'nature,' if you bothered to look. In fact he more precisely had the mental image of his Father. Look at the context and see what is being said. Tell me, how is one to have the mind of Christ as Paul was teaching, if he has the exact same nature of God? Kind of impossible..

And for your latest other ONE verse of Col 1:16 is also a bust. Paul is not speaking of the first Genesis here. Again feel free to browse, and move around and examine more surrounding verses to get the gist of what is really been said here, if that is your intention of of course.

And further, to the image of God once more...Col 1:15 has it right, or in a better form...

(Col 1:15) who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

So Jesus as the image, cannot possibility be God according to this verse either. He is the first born of all creation and the Greek word 'pas' being specific and not all encompassing, for 'all,' in that it means ONLY for the creation of the first human being, Jesus, gaining immortality.

He is the father of it, this new creation and is the head of the ekklesia as Paul wrote, to maintain and create for it...

You're welcome......
 

CadyandZoe

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Christians stick with the Bible! It tells us all we need to know about God!
Okay, if we stick with the Bible, and I agree, then we must abandon the doctrine of the Trinity. As I say, the Trinity Doctrine is Bible plus Philosophy.
 
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CadyandZoe

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Another question that I have asked @CadyandZoe ..if Jesus was fully God, why is he seated at his Father’s right hand,
Trinitarians believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one being, sharing a single essence, yet they also view God as consisting of three distinct individuals. Therefore, it is consistent with Trinitarian belief for God the Son to sit next to God the Father, which is not a problem for their understanding of the Trinity.

The Bible shows us that Jesus speaks to the Father on our behalf. Romans 8:34says that Jesus “is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.” In 1 John 2:1 we read that Jesus is our “advocate with the Father,” and from Hebrews 7:25 we learn that Jesus “always lives to intercede” for us.
Praise the Lord. Yes, Jesus is our advocate.Regarding the nature of Jesus, Trinitarian doctrine introduces the concept of "hypostasis," which refers to an underlying reality or substance, in contrast to mere attributes or qualities that lack substance. Essentially, on one level of existence, Jesus is a man with human attributes; however, his "hypostasis" is divine, as he is God. Therefore, the notion that Jesus possesses his own will and desires and serves as an advocate for us before the Father aligns with Trinitarian doctrine.
plus Jesus doesn’t know the day hour of his own return.

If he was fully God, then he would know when his return is imminent would he not?
That is an excellent question, in my opinion.
 

CadyandZoe

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Paul did, in Philippians 2:6. I posted a graphic of it in post #232 for your convenience.
Paul argues that Jesus existed in the form of a servant, even though he was a king. That's his point.
 

CadyandZoe

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Sure, not in doubt or question.

Do you believe your Lord was/ is a human terrestrial man?
Yes. That is what I believe. I also believe that Jesus is deity in the sense that he is representationally equal to God.
 
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Taken

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Apart from the virgin birth, he was born like any other man.
A birth is something Alive coming forth from something Alive.

Every time God Spoke the Living Word Came Forth out From the Living God.

The Word of God Came Forth out from Gods Mouth….thus born of God.

John 1:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And then What after Gods Word was Born forth out of Gods Mouth?

Gen 1:
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And then what Did God tell Isaiah?

Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

To where Did God Send “His” “Holy Thing” (Gods Word)?

To a Virgin Womb of a Faithful Jewish Female betrothed to a man OF the House of David.

Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Why was “the House of David” important?
Because only a LAWFUL direct descendent of king David can legally Sit as King on King David’s “everlasting Throne”.

Why is King David’s Throne Everlasting?
Because God Established his Throne everlasting.
2 Sam 7:
[16] And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

(This goes into the future of The Promised land, the Throne, being Christ Jesus’ Earthly Kingdom for 1,000 years).

Gods Kingdom IS presently Heaven…
When Mortal, (Terrestrial earthly men, no longer Exist… )… the whole of Heaven and Earth will become Gods Kingdom…

It’s a step by step process.

Back to “that Holy Thing”…Born of God, and Sent to a virgin Womb…
What did that “holy thing Look Like, when it came Forth out of that virgins Womb?

He looked LIKE a “human Baby Boy”.
How so, if he was Not a Human? (because remember…John 1:13 he was Not born of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man).

Where did that “holy things body come from, if not from a mans seed (sperm)?

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

A Body God PREPARED FOR His Holy thing, which God Sent to a Virgin Womb.

And?
Who and What was that Holy thing Named?
God Named Him Jesus.

And When Did God Declare (fully the promise He “WOULD BE” called “the Son of God?

Thirty years Later, on the Day John Baptized Jesus with Water.

Acts13:
[33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Why did God call Jesus…His Personal begotten Son?

Review…Jesus came forth out From Within God.

Can God REPRODUCE anything that has no “beginning”… No. By default something that IS “reproduced”, Has a beginning.

Is something that COMES Forth From With-IN…anything Other than which “IS” God? No.

God “Declares”…and it is so.

Why Does God call His Word “His Son”?

Because God declared He would sit in Heaven, His Throne, and Send His Word to Earth (Gods Footstool)…and While this was the situation…
God would BE A Father “To Him”…and “He would be to God, A Son.

Heb 1:
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Spiritual Things ARE Spiritual and the Understanding of Spiritual Thing is Spiritual…(meaning Spiritual Things Make no Sence to a natural Carnal Mind).

The mystery is ONCE a man has Accepted Gods Offering of His “spiritual Baptism” of The Lamb of God, The man is Forgiven for his Sin Against God for Having “Not Believed”…and The mans Soul Restored (back to Very Good, as when God gave that body (man) a soul, and the man receives the Seed of God which Births that man An Everlasting spirit…and thus that man IS prepared to “Receive From God…Gods Spiritual Understanding Of Gods Word.”

The Word of God IS Jesus.
The Lamb of God is Lord Jesus.
The Seed of God Is Christ.
The Power of God Is Christ.

Gods Order and Way, little by little…step by step is how a man, born IN SIN, can freely choose (or not) to become born Again…IN Christ….and BE Free from SIN, Forgiven., washed, cleansed, Sanctified (set apart), his Forgiven Sin Covered (with Gods Indwelling light, that God no longers sees or remembers the mans sin, and that Sanctified man, can Sin no more…OSAS
That man IS Justified to be Risen Up by His Lord and Savior and His Power…Christ the Lord Jesus…RAPTURE.

No, my Lord and Saviour, CHRIST JESUS was Never a Created Earthly Human man of Dust.
I don't know what you mean by "the seed of God." I don't know what the Holy Spirit supplied to Mary, whether it was sperm or a zygote.
Neither.
 

Lambano

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Okay, if we stick with the Bible, and I agree, then we must abandon the doctrine of the Trinity. As I say, the Trinity Doctrine is Bible plus Philosophy.
Theology is just a subset of Philosophy.

Even the logic we use to argue Theology with follows rules developed by the Greek philosopher Aristotle. Steve Brown, a Reformed preacher I admire, stated that the doctrine of God's sovereignty and the doctrine of Human responsibility as understood in the Reformed sense are mutually contradictory using Aristotelian logic. John MacArthur said the same thing in his commentary on John 6:44 in the MacArthur Study Bible. But if we throw out Aristotelian logic, we have no tools with which to argue. Nevertheless, I'm willing to concede that Reformed Theology is inherently illogical. :Broadly:
 
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Taken

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Paul argues that Jesus existed in the form of a servant, even though he was a king. That's his point.
Whatever at any point in time you think Jesus IS… a human man or God…Jesus is the Same He always was.

Heb 10:
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 

Ritajanice

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And Jesus set the example for us, who likewise need to learn to rely on God, and no longer on our self or other people. Which includes relying on His wisdom and understanding, not on our own. He says to any that lack wisdom to ask HIM for it and He will give it liberally without upbraiding......and so I recommend you seek the LORD for understanding and answers to your questions.
I recommend that you seek God out with your heart, just as his word says.

As for the rest of your post...I will not be going over the same old ground that you continually repeat...

We are a new creation in Christ, the Born Again, partaker Of his divine nature, we are being conformed into the image of Jesus.

Not by our own strength and might, but, by the power of the Spirit who has birthed our spirit into his.

Flesh gives birth to flesh.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

I understand God’s word the way he has brought me to understand his word.

You and I most definitely do not understand God’s word the same as each other....

I do not understand your teaching of Gods word, that you try and preach / teach to me.

I’m on my own journey with the Lord, you are not part of my journey, you’re on your own journey..

Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God The Creator

1. Matthew 24:36
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.
Here Jesus makes a distinction between what he knows and what the Father knows.

2. Matthew 26:39
My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me, yet not as I will, but as Thou will.
Jesus’ will is likewise autonomous from God’s Will. Jesus is seeking acquiescence to God’s will.

3. John 5:26
For as the Father has life in Himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.
Jesus received his life from God. God received his life from no one. He is eternally self-existent.

4. John 5:30
By myself, I can do nothing: I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who has sent me.
Jesus says, “by myself, I can do nothing.” This indicates that Jesus is relying upon his own relationship with God. He is not trying to “please myself” but rather is seeking to “please the one who sent me.”

5. John 5:19
The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees the Father doing, because whatever the Father does, the Son does also.
Jesus declares that he is following a pattern laid down by God. He is expressing obedience to God.

6. Mark 10:18
Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone.
Here Jesus emphatically makes a distinction between himself and God.

7. John 14:28
The Father is greater than I.
This is another strong statement that makes a distinction between Jesus and God.

8. Matthew 6:9
Our Father, which art in Heaven.
He didn’t pray, Our Father, which art standing right here!”

9. Matthew 27:46
My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Inconceivable if he is God the Creator.

10. John 17:21-23
. . .that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. . ..that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me.
In this prayer Jesus defines the term “to be one.” It is clearly accomplished through the relationship of two autonomous beings. Christian believers are to model their relationship (to become one) after the relationship of God and Christ (as God and Christ are one). Notice that “to be one” does not mean to be “one and the same.”

11. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Paul declares that God put everything under Christ, except God himself. Instead God rules all things through Christ. (remember: “through him all things were made.”)

12. Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.
Jesus is the exact representation of his being. I send my representative to Congress. He is not me, myself. He is my representative.

13. Hebrews 4:15 (compared with James 1:13)
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet without sin.
Jesus has been tempted in every way, just as we are, yet he never sinned. See

James 1:13: When tempted, no one should say, God is tempting me. For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt.
Jesus was tempted in every way, but God cannot be tempted. This is why Jesus said, “don’t call me good, none are good, only God.”

14. Hebrews 5:7-9
During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
Jesus had to walk a course of faith and obedience in order to achieve perfection. By achieving perfection, Jesus “became” the source of eternal salvation

Good day @Lizbeth ....no point going over the same ground, that we constantly do,...you have your beliefs, I have mine.
 
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APAK

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Yes. That is what I believe. I also believe that Jesus is deity in the sense that he is representationally equal to God.
C&Z, the serious issue though that arises with you saying Jesus as only representationally equal to God is that folks will automatically think and link you are saying he is God. I believe it sends the wrong message or a mixed signal you want to say. I do know what you mean as Jesus being the agent of God as even the prophets of old.

By definition a deity is a god, immortal, or even godlike, or even dangerously meaning with godlike characteristics that is not a god. The only definition that most on this site will think of for deity is being God, period.

This is one of the reasons I opened this thread on divinity for Christ. Folks seem to have a very difficult time in distinguishing divinity as of God, the Father and then having divine-like attributes or characteristics, that does not mean God or deity.

The subject can get muddled very quickly I afraid.
 

CadyandZoe

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Whatever at any point in time you think Jesus IS… a human man or God…Jesus is the Same He always was.

Heb 10:
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
The point is, Paul wants us to emulate the attitude of Jesus, i.e. his humility. Just as Jesus was a king and was worthy of our respect and honor, he lived as a humble servant. Paul exhorts his readers, and us, to adopt that same attitude. No matter our status before men, we should not think to grasp that status at all costs. We should live as humble servants just as our Lord did.
 
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Ritajanice

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We should live as humble servants just as our Lord did
We should, but, we can’t do anything in our own strength, we can only look to the Spirit,I ask him daily to make me more humble..we must come before him with a sincere heart...I am and can do nothing without him...I need his strength to get me through ......
 
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