SinSinSin

[Taken]

They decide grace is a license that makes sinning allowed for them.

Turning grace into a license to sin is the equivalent of denying the Lord Jesus.

@ marks-

Excuses, Accusations, Philosophies, Traditions, void of Understanding:
Rules men's MINDS...
And From their MINDS...flows Speech.

Sin-they can weaponize it, but can't define it.
Law-they can demand it, but can't
define it.

God is The Wholly Holy all Powerful With Purpose Unseen Creator.

From the Beginning of Gods Creation of mankind...
Gods ONE Desire is THAT mankind "Would" ...
* "FREELY Choose" TO:
•HEAR About God;
•BELIEVE Wholly IN GOD;
•HEART-FULLY (without reservation, without FEAR of consequence) Confess their BELIEF WHOLLY IN God;

•WHOLLY infinite God-
His WORD- His MIND- His POWER
•HOLY infinate God-
FLAWLESS, ENDLESS, PERFECT
Existence, Thought, Knowledge, Purpose, Understanding, Ability.

SIN SIN SIN is ONE THING ONLY;
ANY - Thought, Idea, Plan, Act, "AGAINST" God

Gods GRACE is ONE THING ONLY;
AN OFFERING of Gods POWER TO "MAKE" ANY man, Which IS "Naturally" "AGAINST" God;
TO BE "SUPERNATURALLY" "MADE" ... "WHOLLY and HOLY" "WITH" God "FOREVER". period!

The WORD of God...is the MANNER God communicates with His Created Mankind.

The LAW of God- ...IS the MANNER God introduces the "KNOWLEDGE" of Gods WAY for Mankind (Naturally AGAINST God) TO "KNOW"... "HOW TO" BECOME "MADE", "SUPERNATURALLY" "WITH" God.

The STATUTES are GOD EXPRESS Written Commands...(written by Gods Finger on Stone and immediately Broken by man).

The PRECEPTS of God are His Express "Guides" FOR BEHAVIORS "BETWEEN MEN" "FOR" A Most Beneficial Outcome "BETWEEN MEN".

GOD NEVER CHANGES.
Inanutshell...
• IT is the Whole of Man- body, soul, spirit
(God Desires TO Change)
• IT is the Whole of Man- a man Freely Chooses IF he Will Submit to Gods Changing Him....OR NOT.

Specifically...I will Speak For myself...
THE "WHOLE of me"; body, soul, spirit...

God OFFERED me A Way, Through His Word (that God Expressly Named Jesus), and Through His Power (that God Expressly Named Christ)...
• To BE Wholly Forgiven For having been Naturally Born AGAINST God.
• To BE Wholly Forgiven For having Committed Any and All Acts AGAINST God.
•...And I chose to Confess ONCE my SIN AGAINST God TO God, And ACCEPT Gods ONCE Forgiveness of my SIN AGAINST God.
(That was a ONE TIME Event Expressly Between the Whole...Lord God Almighty...and my Whole body, soul, spirit.
He changed me...He Freed me From the Power and Damnation of Sin. He Full-Filled me With His Power. He fulfilled the Law in me. He fulfilled His Statutes in me. He Perfected me to His Satisfaction.
I am wholly prepared TO DO WORKS that Glorify God.
I am wholly prepared to Worship and Praise Him as He is Deserves.
I am wholly prepared to Receive His Understanding of His Word.
I am wholly prepared for the day "God" has prepared for His Angel to call me up to my Lord in the clouds, AS the ONCE Again Anger of God is Revealed Against this World's Corruption.

Doesn't matter what Any other man believes, likes, doesn't like, opinionates, criticizes, accuses.... The Lord God Almighty Offered me...and....I Freely Desired and Accepted His Offer...and FOREVER nothing whatsoever...
Can Corrupt, Break, Sever, Destroy,
The BOND of The Relationship Between The Lord God Almighty and My Whole (body, soul, spirit) self.

That PRECEPT "Thing"...of Behavior of MAN Between MAN...is STILL the Same. Still for me to follow His Guide, or not...and the consequences Thereof are between A Man becoming A Brother IN Christ, Or a Man whom TRESPASSES can flow Back and Forth Betwix A Man and Myself.

I am not sinless.
I Do Not Sin.
Works did not Save me or Keep me Saved.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Gideons300]

Your posts don't make other Christians feel guilty Gideon. From what I have read... that you have written... your posts are filled with STRIVING and SELF-EFFORT mixed in with JUDGEMENT of the brethren... so your posts more likely than not... simply make Christians angry.

Your reflections of WHO GOD is and WHAT HE "expects" from our own works ( which are like dirty rags ) is simply giving GOD a bad name.

It is HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS that makes us righteous... There is NOTHING we can think... say... or DO to add to the wonderful gift of SALVATION. It is our LOVE for HIM... our DEVOTION to HIM... our INTIMACY with HIM that leads to us NOT sinning...When a soul KNOWS that they are GLORIOUSLY loved by CHRIST... they cannot help but RADIATE this by acting in a becoming way that is Christ-like... This is a life-long process called sanctification... and has nothing to do with self-talk... discipline... or self-effort. Sanctification is also a SACRED process between creator and sinner... Sadly... a great number of believers seem to think it's their business to step in and misjudge others' situations and conditions.

I used to be angry with Christians who condemned others as you do.... but now I am just sad... as it mis-represents the heart of Father... and the love HE has for His children.

I have spent the better part of a year trying to petition your heart on the matter of God's Grace and I am finished. In your eyes I am not getting it and in my eyes.. you are not wanting it... therefore we are at a stalemate. I bless you Gideon... and I wish you PEACE and REST.

i wish you the best as well.

blessings to you Addy,

Gideon

 

[CharismaticLady]

Really? A "license to sin" is a "license to be a sexual deviant"?

And where exactly does a sexual deviant "get such a license"?

Satan, the master they have chosen when choosing false doctrines. The Nicolaitans practiced this perverted grace.

 

[CharismaticLady]

And what is an Example, according to you, of one "going out" of the Spirit?

Righteous anger turning to rage.

 

[ChristisGod]

Righteous anger turning to rage.

who did that in the New Testament ?

any examples ?

 

[CharismaticLady]

I can see grace as being very powerful indeed but I don't see grace and power as being synonymous. I hope this clarifies my earlier statements regarding this matter.

Our modern definition of grace can get some western civilizations in trouble if they superimpose their own style or meaning to the writing of the apostles. First, the apostles were all Jews. They wrote in Semitic styles of writing. One of those styles is parallelisms. You can easily identify a parallelism by the common words associated with them (black) in two sentences in close proximity. Some modern translations make it difficult to identify because of changing the key words or phrase. What a parallelism does is clarify and establishes the true meaning of a particular phrase of word (red).

1 Corinthians 1:6-8
6 just as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you eagerly await the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 4:33
33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. (@Christophany double confirmation)

2 Peter 1:2-3
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

 

[CharismaticLady]

who did that in the New Testament ?

any examples ?

Jesus was angry, but did not sin. He turned over the tables, but didn't kill anyone.

Righteous indignation is not sin. But you can let it go too far and sin. Like killing abortionists and their employees.

Epeshians 4:26
Be ye angry, and sin not

If you and your spouse get angry, walk away and cool off. Then come back together and discuss. It could just be a misunderstanding.

Paul was angry with Peter, but did not sin a sin unto death, just a trespass by writing only his side. It doesn't say what Peter did in retaliation if anything to explain. (One-sided, and not enough information to take sides)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What do I expect from following the law?

I don’t expect anything. I follow the law because I love the Lord:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And this benefit also happens to come with that as well:

John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

What saved me to begin with was repenting and believing the gospel. Keeping the law before this would not avail me to salvation.

John 14:15 does that mean the Mosaic commandments?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

All this text that you copied and pasted pertains to the unsaved person. The unsaved person cannot establish the law until he believes the gospel for salvation FIRST. Then he can establish the law.

You are the one that needed clarification.

What do you mean by establish?

 

[BarneyFife]

John 14:15 does that mean the Mosaic commandments?

It means God's commandments. Unless you think Jesus and His Father are not One and therefore have different commandments. Why complicate a simple thing?

 

[BarneyFife]

What do you mean by establish?

It's a biblical term found in Romans 3:31. Read the context. However erroneous @Michiah-Imla's interpretation of Scripture may be, he knows it nonetheless.

 

[BarneyFife]

Our modern definition of grace can get some western civilizations in trouble if they superimpose their own style or meaning to the writing of the apostles. First, the apostles were all Jews. They wrote in Semitic styles of writing. One of those styles is parallelisms. You can easily identify a parallelism by the common words associated with them (black) in two sentences in close proximity. Some modern translations make it difficult to identify because of changing the key words or phrase. What a parallelism does is clarify and establishes the true meaning of a particular phrase of word (red).

1 Corinthians 1:6-8
6 just as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you eagerly await the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 4:33
33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. (@Christophany double confirmation)

2 Peter 1:2-3
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

But, Dear Lady, parallelism is a style, not code for synonymity. Am I right?
Surely, not all words used to describe God have the same meaning (e.g. graceful; powerful).

 

[ChristisGod]

But, Dear Lady, parallelism is a style, not code for synonymity. Am I right?
Surely, not all words used to describe God have the same meaning (e.g. graceful; powerful).

ditto

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Turning grace into a license to sin is not synonymous with denying the Lord Jesus.

Actually it is synonymous with denying the Lord.

Jude 1:4
They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Titus 1:16
They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him.

Not living for him is synonymous with denying him. I don't think very many people in the church realize this. They are denying him when they don't live for him. I suppose their claim to know God is why they don't consider themselves to be in denial of Christ.

There are other ways to deny Him.

I suppose so. But as we can see from the Bible, purposely making grace your license to freely sin is definitely a denial of Christ. Those should be pretty sobering words for the Christian who is purposely sinning thinking their behavior doesn't matter because salvation is not by works. They're living in denial of Christ and they don't realize it.

 

[BarneyFife]

Actually it is synonymous with denying the Lord.

Jude 1:4
They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Titus 1:16
They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him.

Not living for him is synonymous with denying him. I don't think very many people in the church realize this. They are denying him when they don't live for him. I suppose their claim to know God is why they don't consider themselves to be in denial of Christ.


I suppose so. But as we can see from the Bible, purposely making grace your license to freely sin is definitely a denial of Christ. Those should be pretty sobering words for the Christian who is purposely sinning thinking their behavior doesn't matter because salvation is not by works. They're living in denial of Christ and they don't realize it.

"By their actions is a pretty broad term. It certainly doesn't prove your case. Words are important. License may constitute denial, but it does not define it. Not simple semantics. Let's move on.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

John 14:15 does that mean the Mosaic commandments?

Yes.

Christ himself did not come to destroy the law, but to magnify it, fulfill it, and to make it honorable (Isaiah 42:21; Matthew 5:17).

What do you mean by establish?

We do not make it void, as the scripture says:

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Establish means:

To make stable or firm; to fix immovably or firmly; to set (a thing) in a place and make it stable there; to settle; to confirm.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, if I do not lose my forgiveness when I fail to keep the law, how is the law a requirement?

We were saved for the express purpose of obeying his commands.

Titus 2:14
14He gave Himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

Ephesians 2:10
10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

Besides, the Bible makes it very clear that by virtue of being new creations in Christ our OBLIGATION is to walk according to the Spirit, not the flesh.

Romans 8:12
12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.

There are no consequences for the believer who violates the law; he is forgiven.

As long as a person is believing in Christ their is no eternal consequence for their sin. His sins are immediately covered by the blood of Christ, because he believes and trusts in the blood to do that for him. The purposely sinning person, on the other hand, is removing himself from the forgiveness of sin. Purposely sinning is a choice to not care about or trust in the forgiveness of God. He is in denial of Christ. The deceiving part being, he may think he's still covered by the blood for doing that. As the verse says, he claims to know God but by his actions he denies Jesus. Christ will deny the one who denies him.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

It means God's commandments. Unless you think Jesus and His Father are not One and therefore have different commandments. Why complicate a simple thing?

Agreed!

Also, Jesus’ words are God’s words:

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

 

[justbyfaith]

so every word he penned in his epistles is the gospel ?

yikes

What about that idea is "yikes" to you?

Is there something in the epistles that you feel isn't the gospel? What is it?

 

[justbyfaith]

We were saved for the express purpose of obeying his commands.

Titus 2:14
14He gave Himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

Ephesians 2:10
10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

Besides, the Bible makes it very clear that by virtue of being new creations in Christ our OBLIGATION is to walk according to the Spirit, not the flesh.

Romans 8:12
12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.


As long as a person is believing in Christ their is no eternal consequence for their sin. His sins are immediately covered by the blood of Christ, because he believes and trusts in the blood to do that for him. The purposely sinning person, on the other hand, is removing himself from the forgiveness of sin. Purposely sinning is a choice to not care about or trust in the forgiveness of God. He is in denial of Christ. The deceiving part being, he may think he's still covered by the blood for doing that. As the verse says, he claims to know God but by his actions he denies Jesus. Christ will deny the one who denies him.

My point has been that the law is not a requirement if, for the believer, there are no consequences for violating it. For we are forgiven; and our relationship to the law has changed. We are not under it any longer (Romans 6:14), we are dead to it (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and we are delivered from it (Romans 7:6). So there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (John 5:24 (kjv), Romans 8:1) who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

Now, we are certainly obligated to not obey the flesh; but this is not the exact same thing as being obligated to obey the law.

The law is not a requirement; it is the desire of the Lord that we keep it; and the Holy Ghost within us motivates us, by His love, to walk in such a way that the law is not violated by our behaviour.

The person who willfully sins against the Lord is not covered by the blood; but the one who "blows it" has grace...the law does not point the finger at him because he is not under the law, is dead to the law, and is delivered from the law. The one who sins willfully is in a different boat because his behaviour indicates that he is not born again.