"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Taken]

And GODS WILL POWER is that we BELIEVE IN and FOLLOW THE SON .
SO , GODS WILL POWER will never contradict HIS INSPIRED TRUTH my friend .

If and when I contradict Gods Word, quote me, then accuse me.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The question is ....... WHO ......... do all the warnings and reminders APPLY TO?
The next question is ........WHY.....does the Warnings APPLY to THEM?

Can you answer those questions amigo de chriso?
Can you answer those questions @Ferris Bueller ?

TY

The one's we are discussing are for saved believers.
Some think that for the genuine believer the warnings always accomplish what they were sent to do.
Some think they may or may not accomplish what they were sent to do for the believer.
But either way, the truth remains that the believer must keep believing to the very end to be delivered through the Judgment at the end of the age.
That is the important point. Be a believer and keep believing to the very end.

 

[ScottA]

The one's we are discussing are for saved believers.
Some think that for the genuine believer the warnings always accomplish what they were sent to do.
Some think they may or may not accomplish what they were sent to do for the believer.
But either way, the truth remains that the believer must keep believing to the very end to be delivered through the Judgment at the end of the age.
That is the important point. Be a believer and keep believing to the very end.

So...you don't believe that the End of your sin issue, is Christ in you?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So the difference in "the understanding of those passages" and why they are not the same for the gentiles, is that since the salvation of Christ has come (past tense), if we have received Christ, if "it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us"...then we did (past tense) "hold fast" "until the End" already, and "It is finished." The time of holding fast is finished.

The believers the author is talking to in Hebrews are no different than us gentiles in this regard. And yet he exhorts them to keep believing. I'm fine if someone wants to believe that true Christians will always without exception keep believing when warned and exhorted to do so. What I'm not fine with this ridiculous NEW OSAS in the church that says the true believer can stop believing and they remain saved. That's a joke. I'm fine with the old OSAS that said a true believer will always keep believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So...you don't believe that the End of your sin issue, is Christ in you?

I believe that Jesus' sacrifice is the payment for my sin that God accepts. And so my sin is not held to my account. But I can't have the benefit of a sacrifice for my sin that I do not believe in.

"5who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:5​

 

[ScottA]

The believers the author is talking to in Hebrews are no different than us gentiles in this regard. And yet he exhorts them to keep believing. I'm fine if someone wants to believe that true Christians will always without exception keep believing when warned and exhorted to do so. What I'm not fine with this ridiculous NEW OSAS in the church that says the true believer can stop believing and they remain saved. That's a joke. I'm fine with the old OSAS that said a true believer will always keep believing.

I believe that Jesus' sacrifice is the payment for my sin that God accepts. And so my sin is not held to my account. But I can't have the benefit of a sacrifice for my sin that I do not believe in.

"5who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:5​

I only acknowledge the words that are the acronym OSAS. Any other meaning would seem to be another issue...and Yes, a joke if one thinks they can stop believing.

However, I would say, that is putting too much emphasis on the wrong thing. For instance: I personally never did "believe" per se, and still don't--but rather came to "know" first, eliminating any need to "believe" for a time.

You can and may believe that Christ was and is the End, and it is best to acknowledge it now rather than wait for Him to confirm what has already long since been established...you too may "know" it to be true.

As for Paul's writings to the Hebrews and Peter's to Israel, if you cannot reconcile them with Paul's other writings to the gentiles (rightly dividing) them, then it is like the choice of preferring the law. It should be noted that all these things were on the cusp of what pertains only to Israel and that which only pertains to the gentiles, which are not to be mixed.

 

[amigo de christo]

No one is twisting warnings.
Warnings /Reminders apply to keep one from falling away.
...keep believing.
...keep your faith.
...guard yourself.
...be cautious of philosophies that will try to persuade you from believing.
...don’t practice sin.
Etc.

Scripture is FULL of warnings and reminders.



No one is saying it is a sin to heed the warnings, the reminders.

The question is ....... WHO ......... do all the warnings and reminders APPLY TO?
The next question is ........WHY.....does the Warnings APPLY to THEM?

Can you answer those questions amigo de chriso?
Can you answer those questions @Ferris Bueller ?

TY

The very church they were written to is who they apply too .
For the safety of the church . JESUS Knows how to keep the church safe and growing . Let us heed all reminders .
I know you know those letters paul , peter and jude and john and james wrote , WERE not written
to the world but rather to the CHURCHES . to the peoples . EVERY WORD is for our good
and by those words and reminders shall a peoples grow strong in the faith and no longer be tossed to and fro
by the deceptoins of many men gone wrong . Let all that has breath both praise and thank the glorious LORD .

 

[Taken]

The one's we are discussing are for saved believers.
Some think that for the genuine believer the warnings always accomplish what they were sent to do.
Some think they may or may not accomplish what they were sent to do for the believer.
But either way, the truth remains that the believer must keep believing to the very end to be delivered through the Judgment at the end of the age.
That is the important point. Be a believer and keep believing to the very end.

TY for your commentary, however it did not answer my questions.

 

[Taken]

The very church they were written to is who they apply too .
For the safety of the church . JESUS Knows how to keep the church safe and growing . Let us heed all reminders .
I know you know those letters paul , peter and jude and john and james wrote , WERE not written
to the world but rather to the CHURCHES . to the peoples . EVERY WORD is for our good
and by those words and reminders shall a peoples grow strong in the faith and no longer be tossed to and fro
by the deceptoins of many men gone wrong . Let all that has breath both praise and thank the glorious LORD .

TY for your commentary, however it did not answer my questions.

 

[amigo de christo]

TY for your commentary, however it did not answer my questions.

Look again my friend . it actually does . i said it was written to the churches
and i also answered the why .
Now let all that draweth breath both praise and thank the glorious Lord .

 

[Taken]

The Scriptures are FULL of WARNINGS and REMINDERS...

The question is ....... WHO ......... do all the warnings and reminders APPLY TO?

The ANSWER IS: BELIEVERS.

The next question is ........WHY.....does the Warnings APPLY to THEM?

The ANSWER IS: BECAUSE THEY CAN FALL AWAY.

Can you answer those questions amigo de chriso?
Can you answer those questions @Ferris Bueller ?
[/QUOTE]

@amigo de christo @Ferris Bueller .... no one is discouraging you from heeding the warnings and reminders! You are ARE revealing those warnings and reminders DO APPLY TO YOU. Hang on to your hope that you keep believing and thus, do not fall away.

And I, like you, can REVEAL what APPLIES to me, same as you REVEAL what APPLIES to you.

I CAN NOT FALL AWAY!

There IS a Plethora of Warnings and Reminders; BECAUSE there IS a Plethora of BELIEVING MEN, WHO CAN FALL AWAY.

Again, boldly I say with conviction; I CAN NOT FALL AWAY.
All the Warnings and Reminders DO NOT APPLY TO ME.
BECAUSE; I CAN NOT FALL AWAY.

WHY, can I NOT FALL AWAY?

Answer: BECAUSE: Christ is IN me, and I am IN Christ!

While there is a plethora of Warnings and Reminders in Scripture that APPLY TO YOU, Believers, that must keep believing to their end...

There ARE some 70+ Scriptures that are NOT WARNINGS, NOT REMINDERS....that DO Apply to me, and others “IN” Christ.

While YOU are heeding Warnings...
I am heeding what Applies to me now; IN Christ;
No condemnations, No wrath, faithful, truth, approved, forgiven, Saved, quickened, sanctified, wise, triumphed, liberty, created, saint, seed of God, son of God, perfected, bonded, reconciled, righteous, forever with the Lord God.

 

[Taken]

Look again my friend . it actually does . i said it was written to the churches
and i also answered the why .
.

Ofcourse it was written to the Churches, and the Cleric’s Job to speak to ALL who sit in the congregation.

The Churches are full of atheists, curious unbelievers, believers and converts IN Christ.

It is the individual “LISTENERS” (atheists, curious unbeliever, believers and converts IN Christ) WHO KNOW their own standing, and SHOULD be able to decipher WHEN the “cleric” is speaking ABOUT them or not.

When a cleric is speaking about, unbelievers, a gender other than myself, a baby, the unconverted, a person in a nation governing position, the unsure, men who worship other gods......I already KNOW by my own convictions and standing....the cleric is NOT preaching to me.

 

[amigo de christo]

Ofcourse it was written to the Churches, and the Cleric’s Job to speak to ALL who sit in the congregation.

The Churches are full of atheists, curious unbelievers, believers and converts IN Christ.

It is the individual “LISTENERS” (atheists, curious unbeliever, believers and converts IN Christ) WHO KNOW their own standing, and SHOULD be able to decipher WHEN the “cleric” is speaking ABOUT them or not.

When a cleric is speaking about, unbelievers, a gender other than myself, a baby, the unconverted, a person in a nation governing position, the unsure, men who worship other gods......I already KNOW by my own convictions and standing....the cleric is NOT preaching to me.

Yet when paul wrote he wrote specifically to believers on what they ought to do and what not to do in the churches .
Thus it all applies to us today as well . Keep a church safe , then follow and learn the pattern they set and taught .
OH what wonderous joy and good it does to the soul to simply live by those teachings and reminders
as opposed to trying to find a way around some of those things . Rather EMBRACE IT ALL . For its all to the good of the true believer .

 

[Taken]

Yet when paul wrote he wrote specifically to believers on what they ought to do and what not to do in the churches.
Thus it all applies to us today as well. Keep a church safe , then follow and learn the pattern they set and taught .
OH what wonderous joy and good it does to the soul to simply live by those teachings and reminders
as opposed to trying to find a way around some of those things . Rather EMBRACE IT ALL . For its all to the good of the true believer .

Paul taught to unbelievers AND believers. Gentiles at large, sitting governing gentiles and Jews.

Paul taught to believers Warnings and Reminders to hang on to their Faith.

AND...as you say;

... as opposed to trying to find a way around some of those things.

Paul taught to believers “NOT AN OPPOSITION (as you say) but rather
“A SECURITY” that is manifested to those WHO CHOOSE “IN CHRIST”.

You have elected to be a BELIEVER, continually, watching for “something” to cross your path, that you are REMINDED is a WARNING to watch out for....WATCH OUT FOR:
Evil spirits TRYING to dissuade you FROM Believing.
Wicked men TRYING to dissuade you FROM Believing.

WHY, HOW, can “something” dissuade you FROM Believing?
The WHY is.....Because you CAN fall away.
The HOW is....Because you ARE the WEAKEST up against; Evil spirits and Wicked men in Governing positions.

You SEE it all day long, all around you, happening World Wide...
Wicked Governing men; Oppressing, Taking men’s Liberties by Force, Silencing men, Closing Churches, Distancing and Separating people, Using military Force, Poisons for Free, Rounding up men who dare to NOT go along with their wicked agendas....
AND people in Droves WILLING to BE PERSUADED to BELIEVE Governing men ARE ‘their’ Savior and Safety net.

So how are you doing in this WORLD WIDE “Master” grab?
Feeling like the lone Sheep, trying to dodge and fend off the World Wide Governing Wolves desperately tying to BE YOUR savior and safety net Master?
Me personally, I HAVE CHOSEN My Master, My Savior, My Safety net, MY Peace, My Security, My Warrior, “IN Christ” ...that you somehow purport is:

... in trying to find a way around

* I have no need to debate or argue with you. Every man has his own Freewill. IF believing and watching for warnings and fending off unscrupulous men by your own will power, is your pleasure, so be it.
* Me, I have chosen and TRUST, Christ to be my Warrior, HIS POWER, IN me, WITH me, 24-7, THAT NO evil spirit, THAT NO wicked man, THAT NO man can persuade me, trick me, convince me THEY are my Savior, Safety net, Peace giver, Master.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ferris Bueller]

TY for your commentary, however it did not answer my questions.

↓↓↓

The question is ....... WHO ......... do all the warnings and reminders APPLY TO?

for saved believers.

The next question is ........WHY.....does the Warnings APPLY to THEM?

the believer must keep believing to the very end to be delivered through the Judgment at the end of the age.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Again, boldly I say with conviction; I CAN NOT FALL AWAY.
All the Warnings and Reminders DO NOT APPLY TO ME.
BECAUSE; I CAN NOT FALL AWAY.

But this is what Paul wrote to those in Christ:

"20...you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly notg spare you either.22Take notice, therefore, of the kindness and severity of God: severity to those who fell, but kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off." Romans 11:20-22

​

 

[Behold]

I don't remember if I addressed this.
Not holding on in faith is called UNBELIEF. It's a rejection of Christ. That is the one sin that is unforgivable.

Being born again, is proof you have given God the "belief' that caused Him to recreate the person as a "new creation in Christ".

Its DONE.

Welcome to Salvation.
Maybe one day you can understand it, and stop trying to deny that born again is Proof = God already accepting the faith of the Born again.
This is why they are born again, Ferris.

Its not that hard to understand..... but God knows, you are not understanding it at all.
How long have you been saved, yet can't understand the most basic and fundamental understanding regarding : redemption through Christ., that is the Gift of Salvation and The Gift of Righteousness.

over 30 Yrs?
Thats not something to be proud of, but it does explain why you CANT BELIEVE that Jesus who saved you, keeps you saved.

 

[amigo de christo]

↓↓↓

For some reason this seems to scare some folks . To simply remind the church to continue in Christ to the end
for we are made partakers of Christ IF we hold the confidence , IN HIM , firm to the end .
And yet its just the truth and a simple reminder to encourage and exhort the church to do this .
It is what our LORD first said and taught and later the apostels would teach .
They all knew JESUS alone was the only means by which they were saved and they all
knew we must continue in the faith , in HIM unto the end . To remind this to folks is not sin , its not legalism .
Its simply doing what even the apostels , BY the SPIRIT , had done .
All reminders simply work to the good of those who heed them . And how often we need to exhort one another daily
in the things of the LORD . ITs all the working of the SPIRIT , of CHRIST , of GOD to keep the church safe .
SO we need not to omit them , but rather TRUST IN CHRIST and all HE taught and the letters of truth in that bible .
It seems such a simple walk to me . But a walk that often men have made complicated . I say IF its already written in the bible
THEN JUST HEED and BELIEVE IT . THE LORD Knows how to keep us safe so i suggest we take every warning
serious and hold onto the promise in CHRIST and do so faithful to the end . Its real simple . Just learn those bibles
and embrace all reminders as good for us .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Being born again, is proof you have given God the "belief' that caused Him to recreate the person as a "new creation in Christ".

You keep saying this, but you won't answer the question how you know you are born again. You're not being helpful to anyone with this 'because I say so' gospel of yours. A gospel that's building straw and stubble into the building of God and which will be purged out by fire at the end of the age.

 

[Taken]

↓↓↓

Your Post # 1995

Ferris, First you say Warnings are for “SAVED BELIEVERS”...
Then you switch to “BELIEVERS”, to keep in Belief.

THOSE ARE TWO “DIFFERENT”
Believers and SAVED Believers are NOT the SAME people.

Believers, ARE WARNED, BECAUSE...Believers CAN FALL AWAY.
SAVED Believers, CAN NOT FALL AWAY...WARNINGS are irrelevant.

No. Warnings ARE NOT for the SAVED CONVERTED “IN” Christ.
To teach that, IS TO TEACH, keep heeding the Warnings TO: keep yourself from evil spirits and wicked men.......BECAUSE THE POWER of Christ “IN” a man, is not sufficient.