Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Except that the Bible really does warn genuinely born again people to keep believing.
"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
It dont . exactly . I mean do we think that JESUS is high preist to ONLY the beleiving jews and not to the believing gentiles .
What was wrote in hebrews Was wrote to the church itself and is truth my friend .
Just cause paul was explaining to the jews dont mean it would not apply to gentile believers to do the same .
I MEAN does having to continue in HIM apply ONLY to believing jews . e xactly . IT applies to ALL BELIEVERS .
Just as JESUS is HIGH PREIST to ALL BELIEVERS whether jew or whether gentile .
I think folks forget something . Many can claim the letters of the apostels , the canon etc was INSPIRED by GOD
and yet how often they say , OH well some parts JUST DONT APPLY TO US . IT ALL APPLIES TO US .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Taken has taken verses out of text . How so , cause even paul tells the church to forgive one another .
Remember the pattern JESUS set for us and the power he has given the church .
If your brother trespass against you , rebuke Him and if he repent FORGIVE HIM .
Let us read continously those bibles . It will become rightly divided upon our hearts by grace . The more time we spend reading the bible FOR OURSELVES
the simplier things become . Be encouraged my friend .
an apostate rejects Christ his church and the faith
You were describing reprobate
the one true church that Christ founded has the seven sacraments that Christ instituted
Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25
Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18
Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22
Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6
Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20
Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14
The ark of salvation: one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!
Taken
Well-Known Member
Yes, the Bible does teach Believers to hold on to their Faith, by their own will power.
Yes, the Bible also teaches the Faith of a Converted man is securely Kept by the Power of God.
Taken
Well-Known Member
I must surely continue, IS by my will-power.
I relinquished my will-power, TO Gods will-power.
It’s called “submission”.
Taken
Well-Known Member
No. I keep verses IN CONTEXT.
Sin is Against God. Only God forgives Sin.
Men trespass against one another, and men forgive men of trespasses.
IN CONTEXT......
SIN Against God, IS NOT Believing IN God.
IN CONTEXT.....
IF you have asked God to FORGIVE YOU....FORGIVE you FOR WHAT?
FOR WHAT is your SIN AGAINST GOD for having NOT Believed in Him.
IN CONTEXT....
Have you ever BEEN required BY GOD to BELIEVE IN other men?
IS it a sin if you don’t believe in men?
IS it a sin if don’t trust men?
IS it a sin if don’t believe what a man says?
IN CONTEXT....
God offers a ONE on ONE relationship between ONE man and God.
What does THAT ^ have to do with your relationship with your wife, kids, neighbors, politicians, kings, employers, governors or any other man?
NOTHING!
IN CONTEXT.....a man LAYING DOWN his LIFE in submission of his COMPLETE believe IN the Lord God......HAS WHAT to do with any other man?
NOTHING!
IN CONTEXT....
IF you choose to believe in God..that has zero affect on me.
IF you choose to Submit BY VOW, your Life unto God...that has zero affect on me.
IF you choose to Submit your Life BY VOW, to a marriage with ONE woman, who is a godly woman, an unbeliever, a liar, a prostitute, a drunk, Sunday school teacher....that has zero affect on me.
IN CONTEXT...
All day long men can believe, then doubt, then believe, then deny, their BELIEF IN God....that has zero affect on me.
BELIEVING is ONLY one step...and is called a Works.
A man FAILING to complete the NEXT step....WITH SERVICE...
IS WARNED repeatedly, he is on a dangerous, slippery slope.
The Next step AFTER BELIEVING (works), IS SERVICE.....which is CONFESSING his True Heartful belief IN the Lord God, TO the Lord.
There are PLENTY of BELIEVERS....that have FAILED to complete their SERVICE of CONFESSING their belief to the Lord....
One day they are shouting....I believe, I believe...
And the next day they can be blaspheming the Lords name, having a jolly ole time Discussing their DOUBTS of existence of God....WHICH IS THEM SINNING AGAINST GOD....and the next day drop to their knees and say oh, oh, Lord Forgive my sin against God....and Repeat, Repeat, Repeat.
IN CONTEXT....they are riding the Slippery slope. Hailing their BELIEF....
While at their convenience continuing to SIN against God.
IN CONTEXT...
UNTIL a Believing man ...... Completes the SERVICE of laying down His LIFE unto DEATH FOR the Lord God......he is in danger of at ANY moment succumbing to physical death, a being SINNING Against God at his (unknown) moment of Death, and oops, SHALL NOT BE SAVED!
IN CONTEXT...
Wishy washy Belief DOES NOT MEASURE UP, to Gods requirement for that man to RECEIVE Gods gift of salvation.
IN CONTEXT....
Should YOU decide to marry a woman, who tells you to your face, sometimes she loves you, sometimes she doesn’t love you; sometimes she is faithful to you, sometimes she is not faithful to you....
YOU have the option to or not to marry her.
God has options too. His options requires your fullness of your TRUE Confessed LOVE and FAITHFULNESS to Him only.
BECAUSE “IF” you are not Wholly WITH Him......you ARE Against Him.
And “IF” you are Against Him......uh, He is Against you.
And NO, God does NOT save the souls, quicken the spirit, make a man a NEW creature, WHO IS AGAINST Him.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Speaking of being wholly for HIM , how can any of us claim such a thing , WHEN WE TWIST HIS OWN WARNINGS
and HIS OWN reminders about continuing faithful to HIM unto the end .
WHY is it such a sin to so many when i come simply saying , WE MUST CONTINUE IN HIM to the end .
Was it a sin when JESUS said it . OR was it a sin when the apostels later said it .
SO WHY IS IT legalism or error , or not trusting in GOD or in CHRIST , when i SIMPLY remind the same WAY they did .
I mean if we say we TRUST IN JESUS then how come we only trust some of what HE SAID and NOT ALL OF IT .
Just a reminder . As for me I TRUST IN JESUS WHEN HE SAID IF YOU DONT CONTINUE IN ME YOU WILL BE CAST OUT .
I trust in JESUS when HE said IF a man hears MY SAYINGS and does them not , HIMS HAS NO FOUNDATION .
The way i see , no matter how much good i do , it cannot add to the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD
FOR IN CHRIST ALONE AM I SAVED . BUt i also see that if i live the old life i once lived , I DONT KNOW HIM
anymore than i once did , WHEN I COULD LIP HIS NAME , LIP THE GOSPEL and YET embraced sin .
I hope that scares the socks off of folks . CAUSE YOU better believe that many within christendom
are lipping HIS NAME right now , JUST AS I DID , BUT THEY JUST As lost AS I ONCE WAS .
i suggest we stop following the version of this lovey lovey unity unity stuff our sold out churches are preaching
and start following CHRIST and preaching the TRUE LOVE that cometh of GOD and not of this world . many aint gonna make
it taken . BUT i wont be partaker of their demise . ME IS GONNA WARN against sin , against following another jesus
and another false love gospel all inclusive piece of dung junk that most men of christendom preach today .
I aint no mans enemy . THUS I DO WARN and remind all , FOLLOW JESUS and not the men that created another version of said JESUS .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
And GODS WILL POWER is that we BELIEVE IN and FOLLOW THE SON .
SO , GODS WILL POWER will never contradict HIS INSPIRED TRUTH my friend .
I dont see you as the enemy , but rather i have come to do what most will no longer do .
Get folks to actually open and read the bible for THEMSELVES and to stop reading it through the lenses of men .
The sooner we do this , THE BETTER . You are dearly loved my friend . I aint the son of perdition nor anti christ
that some in other places have called me . I simply come to remind us is all .
To remind us of what you might ask , well to remind us of THE JESUS that many men did not teach
But rather the one in that bible . TO remind us of what the true apostels also taught .
The gospels nor the letters from paul and others are some big hidden mystery that was written
to scholars alone . NO they were letters , THOUGH INSPIRED BY GOD , were written to the church .
The bible is not difficult to grasp . Some things might be a bit harder at first , but in large
IT MEANS EXACTLY what it said .
Start reading again and afresh , The beauty you will find is beyond anything
this world can ever offer . THE riches of every word of GOD and every WORD HE DID INSPIRE is a treasure
that even this poor man , poor according to the world but rich in CHRIST , rich in faith , can and does EMBRACE .
ITS SO PURE when its read from the eyes of a child who loveth GOD . FOR GOD is with a lamb and all lambs .
ALL WE NEED , NEED , and NEED , IS CHRIST . on that i bank everything . PEROID .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
All is wasted if we use scripture to justify an evil . GO ye and learn that .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
By ourselves, you and I couldn't believe our way out of a wet paper sack, lol. It's only by the enabling power of God's gift of faith that anyone is able to then believe, placing their trust in the blood of Christ for salvation. And even then it's with loads and loads of God's encouragement to do so.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Your first part needs to be cleared up . TO warn folks to CONTINUE is not by the will of man
but cometh rather of the WILL OF GOD . JESUS said it first , paul and others said it later and did so BY THE SPIRIT .
SO how come today if we remind folks to continue , THAT IS SEEN somehow as being by our own means and own abilty
when in truth , ITS ONLY A HOLY SPIRIT REMINDER TO DO SO . WHO is heeding the POWER OF GOD NOW
And who is heeding the power of men who say to do such a thing is somehow being dependant on us .
PUAL DID IT . WAS HE DEPENDANT on HIS ABILITY , OR DID HE simply KNOW and Was he SIMPLY INSPIRED BY THE SPIRIT
TO DO SUCH A THING . TIME WE OPEN BIBLES AND FAST . MEN are making such a simple walk way too complicated .
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
...through faith.
"5who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:5
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
YEAH and that means they are reprobate . JUST LIKE i once was . I TOO could cliam to believe
yet my mind was reprobate concering the true faith . Faith without good works is dead .
I Lived in sin , my mind was reprobate towards the VERY GOD and VERY CHRIST , the very FAITH i tried to claim i had .
SO yeah , BEING reprobate is APOSTATE . TRUTH is , GOD has always depised the middle ground the most .
Those who holler HIS name yet do evil all the same . LUKE WARM , MIDDLE GROUND . BAD NEWS .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Yeah , even the devils believe . SO yeah for sure i do know that to be true . BUT and this is one big ol BUTT
THEY DONT KNOW CHRIST . PEROID . THEY are lost and follow another jesus another gospel .
Either we embrace CHRIST , HIS TEACHINGS and that would include the letters left to us in the bible by the true apostels
OR we are seriously decieving ourselves and we are and have been deceived . PEROID . i DONT PAINT WITH A GRAY PAINT BRUSH .
ITS BLACK OR WHITE TO ME . PEROID .
The house of Israel (those Paul was preaching to in the book of Hebrews) had a reason to "hold fast" to the idea of salvation coming--because their whole lives and that of all other previous generations were waiting and only looking forward to Messiah and salvation. Which is also true of anyone even now who has not net received salvation in Christ.
So the difference in "the understanding of those passages" and why they are not the same for the gentiles, is that since the salvation of Christ has come (past tense), if we have received Christ, if "it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us"...then we did (past tense) "hold fast" "until the End" already, and "It is finished." The time of holding fast is finished.
Think about what it would mean for Christ to "hold fast" after going to the cross. If we have come to that place with Christ, then that is our position also. So--what are you saying, if you are telling Christ He still needs to "hold fast" as if to a promise yet unfulfilled? Such an accusation should be considered blasphemous. It is as if to say that Jesus has not yet gone to the cross and "It is [not] finished." Why would you even think that Christ should continue to "hold fast" to the promise of salvation?
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Taken
Well-Known Member
No one is twisting warnings.
Warnings /Reminders apply to keep one from falling away.
...keep believing.
...keep your faith.
...guard yourself.
...be cautious of philosophies that will try to persuade you from believing.
...don’t practice sin.
Etc.
Scripture is FULL of warnings and reminders.
No one is saying it is a sin to heed the warnings, the reminders.
The question is ....... WHO ......... do all the warnings and reminders APPLY TO?
The next question is ........WHY.....does the Warnings APPLY to THEM?
Can you answer those questions amigo de chriso?
Can you answer those questions @Ferris Bueller ?
TY
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