Romans

[stunnedbygrace]

It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.

That's in Roman's, chapter 2 I think?

In chapter 1, he says God makes us right in His sight and it is accomplished from start to finish by faith.

Can you tie them together? Usually all I hear is arguments of 2 sides. I have not heard them tied together by men.

 

[Cristo Rei]

It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.

That's in Roman's, chapter 2 I think?

In chapter 1, he says God makes us right in His sight and it is accomplished from start to finish by faith.

Can you tie them together? Usually all I hear is arguments of 2 sides. I have not heard them tied together by men.

Im not much of a theologian but i'll give this one a crack.

Paul tells us first that we are made right through faith.
Paul then seems to contradict himself next chapter by saying that obeying the law will make us right.

So, Paul says we a first made right by faith then our deeds, both are required.
If u truly have faith then u will do your very best to produce good deeds.
A person who claims to have faith but has only bad deeds is in error

At risk of opening a pandoras box...
I don't think we "get saved" until we are judged in God's court house with Jesus as our defence barrister
There we will be judged on our faith and deeds. I can back that with scripture if requested but we should all know that is the Word.

This is a pandoras box ladies and gentlemen. It's what Satan wants. Division.
And it saddens me that he is achieving this. But we're not just ping pong balls on mouse traps.
We aren't even just animals like mice without consciousness. We are Gods children.
It's fun to ponder questions such as these but it should never be dividing us like ping pong balls. We are not ping pong balls
We must be strong in these times and unite in what we all believe in, Christ

I would love to remake that meme with God's children ping pong balls.
You have the slo mo of the first ball (Satan) dropping onto the traps... Then... Nothing...
The ping pong balls all remain firm in Christ... LoL... Ye i like that thought

May God's grace and peace be with us all through our Lord Christ

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.
Addressing the OP. I would like to talk to stunnedbygrace by JESUS...... (smile).
our righteousness is not found in us, but in him. for he has fulfilled all righteousness. let's look at Romans chapter 3,
Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." WELL THAT JUST KILLED KEEPING THE LAW IN "HIS SIGHT" DEAD AS A DOOR NAIL.
Romans 3:21 "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;"
Romans 3:22 "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:"
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" WE ALL MIGHT WANT TO READ THAT AGAIN.
Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" THAT'S THE ANSWER OUR FIGHTEOUSNESS IS IN CHRIST JESUS. .... BINGO.
Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"
Romans 3:26 "To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."

THE WORD "JUST" IS SHORT FOR JUSTIFICATION WHICH MEANS DECLARED RIGHTEOUS.

now as the apostle said, 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, (WE DON'T HAVE TO GO AND FIND THIS, WE JUST READ IT IN ROMAN CHAPTER 3 ABOOVE) that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,"
1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

uh o ... "false dorctine" come under the judgment of the law. many might need to read that again... "false Doctrine" that is contrary to sound doctrine".

so if one is in Christ Jesus, then they are NOT under the Law, for Christ fulfilled the Law for us. as clearly stated, 1 Timothy 1:9a "Knowing this that the law is not made for a righteous man". .... and our righteousness is in him, Christ Jesus. BINGO.

PICJAG.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.

That's in Roman's, chapter 2 I think?

In chapter 1, he says God makes us right in His sight and it is accomplished from start to finish by faith.

Can you tie them together? Usually all I hear is arguments of 2 sides. I have not heard them tied together by men.

Paul's teaching on sin, obedience and the Law in total is from chapter one through chapter eight. People make whole false doctrines out of taking any of the middle chapters and only focusing on the Law, or only on Grace. But doing that is taking verses out of context of the whole eight chapters. It is chapter eight that is the New Covenant of the Spirit.

This is why in the sixth chapter Paul tries to put an end to that kind of out of context nonsense. Some go so far as to believe in Antinomianism (no laws whatsoever, and a total misinterpretation of grace that turns grace into licentiousness Jude 1:4), completely missing the law of chapter eight - The law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

Romans 6:

1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

 

[DPMartin]

It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.

That's in Roman's, chapter 2 I think?

In chapter 1, he says God makes us right in His sight and it is accomplished from start to finish by faith.

Can you tie them together? Usually all I hear is arguments of 2 sides. I have not heard them tied together by men.

read further this is how Paul raps it up:

Rom 3:26　 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.　
Rom 3:27　 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.　
Rom 3:28　 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.　
Rom 3:29　 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:　
Rom 3:30　 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.　
Rom 3:31　 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.　

 

[CharismaticLady]

read further this is how Paul raps it up:

Rom 3:26　 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.　
Rom 3:27　 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.　
Rom 3:28　 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.　
Rom 3:29　 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:　
Rom 3:30　 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.　
Rom 3:31　 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.　

Paul "wraps it up" in chapter 8.

 

[101G]

if one is not in Christ, he or she will face the Law, be ye jew or gentile. but, and that's with only one "t", but, lets see what Law is in effect for both Jews and Gentiles who are not in Christ Jesus.
Romans 2:7 "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:"
Romans 2:8 "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath," (ONE NEED TO READ THAT AGAIN)
Romans 2:9 "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;"
Romans 2:10 "But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:"
Romans 2:11 "For there is no respect of persons with God."
Romans 2:12 "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: (BINGO). and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;" (tHERE IT IS).
Romans 2:13 "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (BUT NO ONE HAVE KEEPED THE LAW BUT THE LORD JESUS).
Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:"
Romans 2:15 "Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)"
Romans 2:16 "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

AS SAID, IF ONE IS NOT IN CHRIST JESUS ................. Oooop ...

PICJAG.

 

[brionne]

It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.

That's in Roman's, chapter 2 I think?

In chapter 1, he says God makes us right in His sight and it is accomplished from start to finish by faith.

Can you tie them together? Usually all I hear is arguments of 2 sides. I have not heard them tied together by men.

Vs 5 is good to consider in the context

Rom 1:5 Through him we received undeserved kindness and an apostleship with a view to obedience by faith among all the nations+respecting his name

A person with faith will also have obedience. And if a person says they have faith but does not have obedience, then their faith is dead. So righteousness is counted by 'faithful obedience' ....that is, an obedience motivated by faith.

 

[Agios]

It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.

That's in Roman's, chapter 2 I think?

In chapter 1, he says God makes us right in His sight and it is accomplished from start to finish by faith.

Can you tie them together? Usually all I hear is arguments of 2 sides. I have not heard them tied together by men.

They can be tied together, those verses are about the law of righteousness, doing what is right in God's eyes is righteousness and he makes it so. A person obeying the law (Mosaic) is righteous, doing the Will of the Father is Righteous. When we walk in Christ, we are righteous. People from the Old Testament were found righteous, prior to the Mosaic Law.

God deems someone righteous, what God says goes.

Yet, it's also through the blood we are made righteous, so that we can say Jesus is my righteousness (as a believer). The problem is, we stop short here, we forget that we will be judged by our works and we don't build upon this and some just think they have His righteousness, but there is no fruit in that person's life, they are not building upon it to Holiness (because if you act like the world, how is this being set apart?).

God can deem anyone righteous.

 

[quietthinker]

It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.

That's in Roman's, chapter 2 I think?

In chapter 1, he says God makes us right in His sight and it is accomplished from start to finish by faith.

Can you tie them together? Usually all I hear is arguments of 2 sides. I have not heard them tied together by men.

All who love God love God's Law. Loving Gods Law means one upholds it by keeping it. It's simple as that. This is Paul's angle as well as that of all the Apostles. It is also the angle of all the Prophets. Any wrestling of scripture to say otherwise puts one on the side of the rebellion against God.

All who attempt to negate God's Law, to make it void, namely the covert/overt desire to break it are in league with the father of lies who presents himself as an angel of light.

 

[farouk]

Justification by faith is a reckoning right in the sight of God, through faith in the Person and Work of Christ. Romans 5 is clear.

 

[quietthinker]

Justification by faith is a reckoning right in the sight of God, through faith in the Person and Work of Christ. Romans 5 is clear.

Faith is manifest by obedience.....God's word is clear. A mental assent to what is true does not qualify as Faith.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So, Paul says we a first made right by faith then our deeds, both are required.
If u truly have faith then u will do your very best to produce good deeds.
A person who claims to have faith but has only bad deeds is in error

I dont see anything wrong with doing your best to do good deeds, helping the poor He puts in your path, etc. You care when people are in need or are hurting. You care about them as much as you care about yourself. That's good.

But that's outward deeds. The law goes deeper, into your very heart, where you get offended at people all the time, where you hold grudges, where you see selfishness and impurity. You see that you dont murder outwardly, but that you murder inwardly where its hidden. So you see what a hypocrite you are in your heart and how helpless you are to be truly good. (If you are angry in your heart at your brother, you have murdered him, you have broken the law.) And if you cant love your brother who you see, how are you loving the God who loves that brother?

The answer cannot be that God does not see my murder. Doesnt He want me to actually BE lawabiding?

 

[bbyrd009]

The answer cannot be that God does not see my murder. Doesnt He want me to actually BE lawabiding?

wadr i think two concepts are being blended there that may not necessarily go together

 

[stunnedbygrace]

There we will be judged on our faith and deeds. I can back that with scripture if requested but we should all know that is the Word.

I agree. I have this thought that we will ACTUALLY fulfill the law if our faith grows enough.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

wadr i think two concepts are being blended there that may not necessarily go together

Well...its like we have settled for the idea that we will never BE like Jesus, or can never be like Jesus, in this life. And yet He is our example of how to walk on earth.

And we have settled for the idea that no human can be law abiding in their heart while on earth, therefore Gods law is done away with.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Is that only after we die physically? Stephen saw God before he died. John saw God. They had not physically died yet (although Stephen died right after.)

They had to have been pure in heart to 1. See God at all and, 2. To see Him and live.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well...its like we have settled for the idea that we will never BE like Jesus, or can never be like Jesus, in this life.

And we have settled for the idea that no human can be law abiding in their heart while on earth, therefore Gods law is done away with.

ya, i guess that would be an inevitable part of the way we usually come to faith, plus our desire to stay in the drivers seat? Trying to have a foot in both worlds iow?
or, Why do little kids get a pass?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It's fun to ponder questions such as these but it should never be dividing us

And yet, two must be in agreement to walk together...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

ya, i guess that would be an inevitable part of the way we usually come to faith, plus our desire to stay in the drivers seat? Trying to have a foot in both worlds iow?
or, Why do little kids get a pass?

Inevitable why though?