Robots and Will Worshipers

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

"Where does the scriptures show us that God knew Adam would sin before he sinned?"

Is He not all knowing?

" Also, God is infallible and since you say God knew Adam was going to sin before he sinned, doesn't that mean that God chose for Adam since as I said God is infallible."

No, not at all. It just say's to me that God already knew the heart of man before He even created them. Just because God is infallible (which yes, He sure is) does not mean He created "perfect human beings" because, He didn't.

"So if, as you say, God knew Adam would sin, wouldn't that mean God gave Adam a impossible command to obey when he commanded Adam, "Do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and Evil?" Does God command or expect the impossible from us?"

No. He gave Adam free will to choose. I believe His heart was broken even before it even happened (partaking from the forbidden fruit) because He is ALL knowing. And, before the foundations of the earth, He had a plan.

"wouldn't that mean God gave Adam a impossible command to obey " NOTHING is impossible with our God.

While I agree God is all-knowing, I believe you're trying to hem God in with your definition of all-knowing. You certainly have the right to your definition of things such as all-knowing, that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. It also doesn't mean I'm wrong in disagreeing with you, it just means I disagree. We're both imperfect human beings with our thoughts on what we think is the right way to look at something like, "all-knowing."

 

[Nancy]

That's why Adam needed a help meet for him.

This is my question..
Whatsoever God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.

Why did God seperate the woman from the man?

It was not good that man should be alone.
But, if they two was already one flesh..

It has to be the kids.. is all I can figure.. LOL
Hugs

"It has to be the kids.. is all I can figure.. LOL"

Ahahaha...you are too funny.

 

[Nancy]

While I agree God is all-knowing, I believe you're trying to hem God in with your definition of all-knowing. You certainly have the right to your definition of things such as all-knowing, that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. It also doesn't mean I'm wrong in disagreeing with you, it just means I disagree. We're both imperfect human beings with our thoughts on what we think is the right way to look at something like, "all-knowing."

All knowing is just that, all knowing. The rest to me is just semantics to confuse the simple issue. And, I am not saying either one of us is right or wrong and, I disagree kindly with many on here. Or, at least I have tried.

 

[Ziggy]

"There is no marriage in Heaven."

Well that's what he told the Saducees because they didn't believe in things like that anyways.

They didn't believe in the resurrection or angels or eternal life or predestined fate.
They asked him about who's wife the woman would be after her 7 husbands died.. in the resurrection.

Jesus knew they was mocking him, so he mocked them back.
Gave them something to chew on.. lol

I don't know if there is or isn't.
I just know he hit them in their unbelief..
Hugs

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Well Barney,
It seems quite obvious to myself that, they were not created "perfect" or they would NOT have disobeyed.

The problem I see with that is that you're implying that God giving mankind freewill wasn't, "very good" as God claimed. Before even creating Adam and Eve, because you said, "It just say's to me that God already knew the heart of man before He even created them," it seems you're saying God knew even before creating the Angel that became a Satan and a Devil he knew that Angel would be a Satan and a Devil. Which means all the wickedness and evil that has happened existed in the mind of God before he began to create, then God put all that wickedness and evil in motion when he began creating. Such evil doesn't originate from God the scriptures tell us, but it seems to me the way you see things you are saying all the wickedness and Evil did originate with God. I totally disagree with your definition of the word all-knowing.

 

[Triumph1300]

Where does the scriptures show us that God knew Adam would sin before he sinned?

If you don't think the words, "very good" have the quality standard of "perfect" what quality do you apply, the words, "very good?"

Well, Barney, you and I both know that "very good" is not the same as perfect.
Everything which is very good will malfunction sometime in the future.

 

[Ziggy]

You know it's a matter of maturing.. growing..

1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Now here is an interesting verse:

Luk 13:31 The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.
Luk 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
Luk 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

there seems to be a perfecting happening..

What do you think of that verse??
Interesting

Hugs

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Well, Barney, you and I both know that "very good" is not the same as perfect.
Everything which is very good will malfunction sometime in the future.

No don't include me in how you believe. I don't agree with you.

 

[kcnalp]

No don't include me in how you believe. I don't agree with you.

Of course you don't. You believe whatever Kingdom Hall has washed your brain with.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Of course you don't. You believe whatever Kingdom Hall has washed your brain with.

Yes anyone who disagrees with you they have to be brainwashed, right kcnalp? No one has the right to disagree with you, right?

 

[Timtofly]

You got that right Gary! God NEVER said He made them "perfect"...just, "very good"...meaning His whole creation that is, :)

Then we only serve a very good God and not a perfect God? Being very good is being perfect just like God is perfect. Adam only had to "not do" one thing. Adam did not have to do it. He was told not to do one simple task. That simple act would bring sin and corruption into a perfect world.

 

[Timtofly]

Where does the scriptures show us that God knew Adam would sin before he sinned?

Also, God is infallible and since you say God knew Adam was going to sin before he sinned, doesn't that mean that God chose for Adam since as I said God is infallible. I mean Adams free will can't prove God wrong, that would prove God to be fallible and both you and I know that it's impossible to prove God wrong. So if, as you say, God knew Adam would sin, wouldn't that mean God gave Adam a impossible command to obey when he commanded Adam, "Do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and Evil?" Does God command or expect the impossible from us?

Do not reply to this post to prove how hard it is not to do something.

 

[Timtofly]

Well Barney,
It seems quite obvious to myself that, they were not created "perfect" or they would NOT have disobeyed.

Sounds like you are blaming God, that they could disobey God. Being perfect had nothing whatsoever to do with eating from a particular tree. They had the choice to not eat. The simple act of not eating means they were perfect and did not have to eat. Satan tempted Eve with the unknown knowledge. The knowledge that lead to imperfection. They did not have to eat to be perfect. They had to eat to become imperfect. The knowledge of knowing evil is very enticing. If they were not perfect and sinners, why would evil be enticing? Evil can only be enticing to those who never experienced evil or imperfection. God allowed them to avoid evil or embrace evil by disobedience. A free choice.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Do not reply to this post to prove how hard it is not to do something.

If you or anyone tells me that God knew Adam was going to sin before creating him, then you should show me in Scripture where that's written. I'm not going to agree with some imperfect human, or group of imperfect humans opinion.

 

[Nancy]

Sounds like you are blaming God, that they could disobey God. Being perfect had nothing whatsoever to do with eating from a particular tree. They had the choice to not eat. The simple act of not eating means they were perfect and did not have to eat. Satan tempted Eve with the unknown knowledge. The knowledge that lead to imperfection. They did not have to eat to be perfect. They had to eat to become imperfect. The knowledge of knowing evil is very enticing. If they were not perfect and sinners, why would evil be enticing? Evil can only be enticing to those who never experienced evil or imperfection. God allowed them to avoid evil or embrace evil by disobedience. A free choice.

I blame God for NOTHING! It all simply comes down to free will.

 

[Nancy]

Then we only serve a very good God and not a perfect God? Being very good is being perfect just like God is perfect. Adam only had to "not do" one thing. Adam did not have to do it. He was told not to do one simple task. That simple act would bring sin and corruption into a perfect world.

Sin entered the world because of dis obedience. The ONLY perfect human who ever walked the face of this earth was Jesus Christ. Only GOD is infallible and all knowing, since He knows the end from the beginning, how could He NOT know what they would choose? If Adam and Eve were "perfect" then they would not have disobeyed. How else could God have allowed free will? "Choose this day..."

"Being very good is being perfect just like God is perfect. " Perfect people do NOT disobey God, period.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Timtofly said:
Evil can only be enticing to those who never experienced evil or imperfection.[/QUOTE\]

I can understand that today, because mankind is born in sin and is imperfect, immortality or evil can be enticing. Does that however include Adam and Eve, before they sinned? The scriptures say Eve was deceived yes, but the scriptures say Adam wasn't deceived. So doesn't that mean Adam with full knowledge willfully and deliberately chose to disobey. I don't think what Adam did had to do with enticement. Adam showed no sorrow or regret, nor did he ask forgiveness. I'm not trying to make light on what Eve did but the scriptures show it was the sin of Adam that mankind is in the predicament it's in today and I don't see what he did having anything to do with enticement. Like I said I can see how immorality and evil may be enticing to us who are born in sin and live in a world ruled by Satan, I just don't know if I can say that about the first human created, Adam.

 

[kcnalp]

Yes anyone who disagrees with you they have to be brainwashed, right kcnalp?

Those who are brainwashed by Kingdom Hall for sure.

No one has the right to disagree with you, right?

Not when they try to rewrite the Christian Bible constantly.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Those who are brainwashed by Kingdom Hall for sure.

Not when they try to rewrite the Christian Bible constantly.

Well I think it's easy for someone who doesn't believe others have the right to disagree with them, to say such people are brainwashed. So you go ahead and call people who are simply exercising their right to disagree with you brainwashed, I find that interesting that you say such things because they're exercising their right to disagree with you.

 

[kcnalp]

Well I think it's easy for someone who doesn't believe others have the right to disagree with them, to say such people are brainwashed. So you go ahead and call people who are simply exercising their right to disagree with you brainwashed, I find that interesting that you say such things because they're exercising their right to disagree with you.

Did you forget? You admitted being brainwashed by Kingdom Hall for years.