Robots and Will Worshipers

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kcnalp

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Daniel 4:35 (NKJV)
35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?"
 
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Renniks

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. God does not promise that He does not toy with your faculties, so your trust appears to be on thin ice to begin with.
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
 

DNB

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[Part 1]


You straight up determine God's righteousness according to your judgement.

"We do not charge God. As a result of this, His work is righteous."

Do you think that is man-centered?

You say you trust God that He is not toying with your faculties in commanding men to uphold the law for at least about 1,500 years, but there are atleast three issues with this.

1. God does not promise that He does not toy with your faculties, so your trust appears to be on thin ice to begin with.

2. God does toy with your faculties, in the sense that He provides the existence of your faculties according to His purpose.

3. God upholds the law in order to Glorify Himself. The law is the schoolmaster that leads to Christ.

The law isn't as much about you as you seem to think it is.
'Those that obey the Law, shall live by it'. Romans 10:5, Leviticus 18:5, Deuteronomy 4:1, Nehemiah 9:29, Ezekiel 20:11, ........

The Law is all about me, ....and everyone else.
 

Rudometkin

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Because we are convicted by the Spirit first, and Christ's blood is what actually saves us. I think you are misinterpreting that verse. It doesn't say Christ belived for us.

I think you are twisting scripture and my position so they fit your belief and your argument. Scripture says Christ is the Author of our faith, and I say.

Regardless of that, you help to prove my point about man's incapability when you say that man is first convicted by the Spirit.
 

Renniks

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I think you are twisting scripture and my position so they fit your belief and your argument. Scripture says Christ is the Author of our faith, and I say.

Regardless of that, you help to prove my point about man's incapability when you say that man is first convicted by the Spirit.
Convicted doesn't equal inability to respond.
God convicts everyone. Only a few respond.
 

DNB

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@Rudometkin
...ok, maybe I'm beginning to appreciate your position after a bit more thought.
If God created everything in the entire universe, from the grandiose, to the infinitesimal, then of course that includes all personalities, emotions and characters. That is, if He is the almighty Creator, then there is absolutely nothing that is outside of His control in any manner whatsoever, including man's inclinations, desires and enticements.

Therefore, invariably, God knows exactly what will occur in His universe at any given moment in time, from anywhere on any planet or galaxy, from every thought that passes through man's mind. He knows this not only by omniscience, anticipation or wisdom, but more so, because He laid the blueprint, and that there was not an iota of anything that was made without precise deliberation. Everything has a purpose, nothing is frivolous. Again, He did not create to a point that some things were left to chance, that some things were outside of His control and had a trajectory of their own - impossible.

But, because I do recognize a paradox in both God's sovereignty, and His over-arching decrees for man to be obedient and righteous, I must conclude that there is a free-will innate in man - but this is from man's perspective. As far as man's heart, maturity and wisdom are concerned, he grows, develops and makes countless decisions every day, and can conclude that effort causes change, and being sedentary causes stagnation. God created the environment that is conducive to each individuals character, to act as God pre-planned. Man does not feel possessed by some inexplicable force acting upon him, making himself do something that never entered his mind. Thus, man does have free will, within the confines that God gave him. Not an oxymoron. Again, man knows himself, his strings are not being pulled by some extraneous source. God defined the limits, but man has complete free-will within the capacity that God gave him. Thus, he is still held accountable.
 

Rudometkin

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@Rudometkin
...ok, maybe I'm beginning to appreciate your position after a bit more thought.
If God created everything in the entire universe, from the grandiose, to the infinitesimal, then of course that includes all personalities, emotions and characters. That is, if He is the almighty Creator, then there is absolutely nothing that is outside of His control in any manner whatsoever, including man's inclinations, desires and enticements.

Therefore, invariably, God knows exactly what will occur in His universe at any given moment in time, from anywhere on any planet or galaxy, from every thought that passes through man's mind. He knows this not only by omniscience, anticipation or wisdom, but more so, because He laid the blueprint, and that there was not an iota of anything that was made without precise deliberation. Everything has a purpose, nothing is frivolous. Again, He did not create to a point that some things were left to chance, that some things were outside of His control and had a trajectory of their own - impossible.

But, because I do recognize a paradox in both God's sovereignty, and His over-arching decrees for man to be obedient and righteous, I must conclude that there is a free-will innate in man - but this is from man's perspective. As far as man's heart, maturity and wisdom are concerned, he grows, develops and makes countless decisions every day, and can conclude that effort causes change, and being sedentary causes stagnation. God created the environment that is conducive to each individuals character, to act as God pre-planned. Man does not feel possessed by some inexplicable force acting upon him, making himself do something that never entered his mind. Thus, man does have free will, within the confines that God gave him. Not an oxymoron. Again, man knows himself, his strings are not being pulled by some extraneous source. God defined the limits, but man has complete free-will within the capacity that God gave him. Thus, he is still held accountable.

Are you a Hard Determinist?
 

Ronald Nolette

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'Those that obey the Law, shall live by it'. Romans 10:5, Leviticus 18:5, Deuteronomy 4:1, Nehemiah 9:29, Ezekiel 20:11, ........

The Law is all about me, ....and everyone else.


Live by the law, die by the law. As it is written, the law cannot make anyone righteous!
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Wow! How polite. What a nice surprise. :)

Actually, I wasn’t saying that neither is true. I was saying that both are true. It’s a dichotomy (seeming contradiction).

Edit: I'm adding this. I just wanted to clarify that this is what I'm saying: God made man with a will to choose between obeying Him or not, but God is also sovereign. This doesn't mean that God controls everything that man does or thinks. IOW, God doesn't cause man to think or act in evil ways. But God's ultimate plans will be accomplished even though man has free will.

I agree that God created Mankind with the ability to obey him, but I believe that when God created Adam and Eve with the ability to obey him God never wanted them to abuse this gift.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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I wouldn't say that God "wanted" Adam and Eve to sin but He already KNEW that they would?

Where does the scriptures show us that God knew Adam would sin before he sinned?

Also, God is infallible and since you say God knew Adam was going to sin before he sinned, doesn't that mean that God chose for Adam since as I said God is infallible. I mean Adams free will can't prove God wrong, that would prove God to be fallible and both you and I know that it's impossible to prove God wrong. So if, as you say, God knew Adam would sin, wouldn't that mean God gave Adam a impossible command to obey when he commanded Adam, "Do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and Evil?" Does God command or expect the impossible from us?
 

Nancy

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Where does the scriptures show us that God knew Adam would sin before he sinned?

Also, God is infallible and since you say God knew Adam was going to sin before he sinned, doesn't that mean that God chose for Adam since as I said God is infallible. I mean Adams free will can't prove God wrong, that would prove God to be fallible and both you and I know that it's impossible to prove God wrong. So if, as you say, God knew Adam would sin, wouldn't that mean God gave Adam a impossible command to obey when he commanded Adam, "Do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and Evil?" Does God command or expect the impossible from us?

"Where does the scriptures show us that God knew Adam would sin before he sinned?"

Is He not all knowing?

" Also, God is infallible and since you say God knew Adam was going to sin before he sinned, doesn't that mean that God chose for Adam since as I said God is infallible."

No, not at all. It just say's to me that God already knew the heart of man before He even created them. Just because God is infallible (which yes, He sure is) does not mean He created "perfect human beings" because, He didn't.

"So if, as you say, God knew Adam would sin, wouldn't that mean God gave Adam a impossible command to obey when he commanded Adam, "Do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and Evil?" Does God command or expect the impossible from us?"

No. He gave Adam free will to choose. I believe His heart was broken even before it even happened (partaking from the forbidden fruit) because He is ALL knowing. And, before the foundations of the earth, He had a plan.

"wouldn't that mean God gave Adam a impossible command to obey " NOTHING is impossible with our God.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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You got that right Gary! God NEVER said He made them "perfect"...just, "very good"...meaning His whole creation that is, :)

If you don't think the words, "very good" have the quality standard of "perfect" what quality do you apply, the words, "very good?" Remember these words, "very good" came from the mouth of the Sovereign creator, so I don't see how these words, "very good" could have any standard other than perfect. Also you know the word, "perfect" has various definitions, absolute perfection can only be applied to God.
 

Nancy

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If you don't think the words, "very good" have the quality standard of "perfect" what quality do you apply, the words, "very good?" Remember these words, "very good" came from the mouth of the Sovereign creator, so I don't see how these words, "very good" could have any standard other than perfect. Also you know the word, "perfect" has various definitions, absolute perfection can only be applied to God.
Well Barney,
It seems quite obvious to myself that, they were not created "perfect" or they would NOT have disobeyed.
 

Ziggy

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"Where does the scriptures show us that God knew Adam would sin before he sinned?"

Is He not all knowing?

" Also, God is infallible and since you say God knew Adam was going to sin before he sinned, doesn't that mean that God chose for Adam since as I said God is infallible."

No, not at all. It just say's to me that God already knew the heart of man before He even created them. Just because God is infallible (which yes, He sure is) does not mean He created "perfect human beings" because, He didn't.

"So if, as you say, God knew Adam would sin, wouldn't that mean God gave Adam a impossible command to obey when he commanded Adam, "Do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and Evil?" Does God command or expect the impossible from us?"

No. He gave Adam free will to choose. I believe His heart was broken even before it even happened (partaking from the forbidden fruit) because He is ALL knowing. And, before the foundations of the earth, He had a plan.

"wouldn't that mean God gave Adam a impossible command to obey " NOTHING is impossible with our God.
That's why Adam needed a help meet for him.

This is my question..
Whatsoever God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.

Why did God seperate the woman from the man?

It was not good that man should be alone.
But, if they two was already one flesh..

It has to be the kids.. is all I can figure.. LOL
Hugs
 
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