Revelation - chapters 19 and 20

[Hobie]

Well, I am now nlooking into chapters 19 and 20...... and even without looking back to other relevant verses in both the old and the new testament, it is extremely difficult to understand the timing of His return, the 1000 years - symbolic or literal, whether it is on earth or in heaven, and how can anyone who has been with Christ for those 1000 years even consider the words that come out of the mouth of satan when he is released for a short time? This has got to be symbolic and at this time, very difficult to put together.... and once again, it is without considering the other verses outside of Revelation. Does anyone have thoughts on these events, their timing and how anyone could possibly be tempted by Satan after being with God?

It is as direct as the prophecies of when Christ first came, and will happen just as real. But one has to have eyes that see and to allow discernment as the words are a revelation from Christ Himself, with the events that will happen and we will see and hear shortly.

 

[tailgator]

Well, I am now nlooking into chapters 19 and 20...... and even without looking back to other relevant verses in both the old and the new testament, it is extremely difficult to understand the timing of His return, the 1000 years - symbolic or literal, whether it is on earth or in heaven, and how can anyone who has been with Christ for those 1000 years even consider the words that come out of the mouth of satan when he is released for a short time? This has got to be symbolic and at this time, very difficult to put together.... and once again, it is without considering the other verses outside of Revelation. Does anyone have thoughts on these events, their timing and how anyone could possibly be tempted by Satan after being with God?

Satan does not decieve any of the resurected saints who reign with Christ for that 1000 years.

He decieves the nations outside the promised land into coming against the resurected saints.He decieves mortals,not the immortals.

 

[tailgator]

Revelation 19
Christ comes and destroys the beast and false prophet .Kingdom of beast consumed at this time.

Revelation 20
Satan is bound.

Martyrs of Christ are resurected first and reign with Christ in his kingdom upon earth.(The land promised to Abrahams seed).The land currently governed by the beast.

1000 years =1 day =that day is the Lords Sabbath

After the Sabbath,Satan is released and decieves the nations into advancing upon the seed of Abraham.Fire comes down from heaven and devours the nations.


Then the rest of the dead are resurected and judged by their works.

 

[Timtofly]

Thus there will be generations who will be born and die during the thousand years. Those who turn to Jesus for atonement of their sins, during their lives, although they will die during the thousand years will be resurrected at the Great White Throne Judgement to eternal life, as part of the resurrection of the rest of the dead.

No, that is how it works now. After the Second Coming, life will not be the same as now. All you have is a post millennial view, that things will not change until after the thousand year reign. If all of Israel is changed, and no longer in a state of death, then all Gentiles will be as well. No verse states that Gentiles continue on, in death, while those of Israel cannot die.

The only people dying in the millennium will be immature children, who disobey one time, and then tossed into the LOF. There will be no grace nor Atonement for a single act of disobedience. The first offence is death.

We know that under the Law of Moses, disobedient children were to be stoned to death. Tell me how many children were actually stoned to death, when the parents were just as guilty of being sinners themselves?

Israel became so degenerate that they were offering their children as human sacrifices instead of obeying the Law of Moses. That cannot happen in the Millennial Kingdom. The only offenders will not get a second chance to disobey. The only blanket punishment without instant death, will be, if a nation votes to not send a delegation to Israel. The whole nation will not be tossed into the LOF. But they will not have any rain or blessings until the next year.

 

[Douggg]

No, that is how it works now. After the Second Coming, life will not be the same as now. All you have is a post millennial view, that things will not change until after the thousand year reign. If all of Israel is changed, and no longer in a state of death, then all Gentiles will be as well. No verse states that Gentiles continue on, in death, while those of Israel cannot die.

People will be born and die during the 1000 years, regardless whether they are Israelite's or Gentiles.

 

[TribulationSigns]

People will be born and die during the 1000 years, whether are Israelite's or Gentiles.

They did, since the cross until today. LOL

 

[ewq1938]

They did, since the cross until today. LOL

And way before the cross LOL

That wasn't the thousand years, neither was the last two. It is not the Mill now either.

 

[TribulationSigns]

And way before the cross LOL

That wasn't the thousand years, neither was the last two. It is not the Mill now either.

Christ established His kingdom at the cross. Look it up.

 

[ewq1938]

Christ established His kingdom at the cross. Look it up.

The bible says the kingdom was within believers and that was before the cross. The Millennium is the first time the kingdom literally is upon the Earth and ruling over non-believers while at the same time satan is imprisoned and unable to deceive those people for the first time in history.

 

[tailgator]

People will be born and die during the 1000 years, regardless whether they are Israelite's or Gentiles.

The 144000 Israelites who are resurected before the millinium don't die.They have received everlasting life and do not suffer a second death.

 

[tailgator]

Christ established His kingdom at the cross. Look it up.

I looked it up.
The 7th Trump has not sounded yet.


Revelation 11
15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

 

[Douggg]

The 144000 Israelites who are resurected before the millinium don't die.They have received everlasting life and do not suffer a second death.

I agree, but the 144,000 are not born during the millennium. There will be people, regardless of ethnicity, that will be born and die during the millennium.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I looked it up.
The 7th Trump has not sounded yet.


Revelation 11
15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

That is referring to when Jesus delivers His kingdom to the Father when He comes again (1 Corinthians 15:22-24). That's why it refers to "the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah". The kingdom of the Father and His Son, in other words. But, right now, we are in Christ's kingdom. The Father has given Him all authority in heaven and on earth (Matthew 28:18).

Colossians 1:12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Davidpt]

They did, since the cross until today. LOL

Both Amil and some Premils disagree with what is recorded in Rvelation 20. Nowhere in that chapter does it ever say anyone dies during the millennium. It says they die after the millennium, verse 9---and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


Which means there is only death before and after the millennium and not during it as well. Meaning when anyone can die. Though, you are correct they did, since the cross until today, what you are not correct about is, that it is meaning during the millennium. Once again that contradicts Revelation 20:9 which is after the millennium not during it. And @Douggg contradicts Revelation 20:9 as well if he insists some die during the millennium.

Not to mention, per my view the following is involving the millennium and satan's little season.

Daniel 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time

This agrees with Revelation 20, therefore telling us that their lives are prolonged until the time of Revelation 20:9.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Both Amil and some Premils disagree with what is recorded in Rvelation 20. Nowhere in that chapter does it ever say anyone dies during the millennium.

Yes, it does. The Thousand years spanned from the Cross to the Second Coming with the Church as New Testament representation of God's Kingdom on Earth while Satan was bound (restrained) until the building of the church is finished. You just are in denial so you do not have spiritual understanding of God's Kingdom.
Rev 20:4-6
(4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

All Saints who took part of the First Resurrection (Born Again), physically died, their souls will go to heaven (lived) and reign with Christ. The rest of the dead (those who did not take part of the first resurrection), will remain in the grave until Christ returns to resurrect them for judgment.

It says they die after the millennium, verse 9---and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev 20:7-9
(7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
(8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

When the Church is finished build, the thousand years for binding Satan is over. He will gather his army of counterfielt Christians against the Saints in the churches (camps of the Saints) all over the world where God will sent judgment upon them so they will believe a lie. This is NOT the Second Coming YET! For the hour of the judgment of God's house (Revelation 11:13 and 18:8-10) has to be fulfilled first!

Which means there is only death before and after the millennium and not during it as well.

Sigh!!

Meaning when anyone can die. Though, you are correct they did, since the cross until today

Duh!

what you are not correct about is, that it is meaning during the millennium.

Yes, it has been during the millennium. Where do you suppose where their souls are now when they were physically dead? Read verse 4-6 carefully. The problem is that you do not understand what the first resurrection is.

Once again that contradicts Revelation 20:9 which is after the millennium not during it.

Fire from heaven is NOT literal nor will it be the Second Coming. It is the fire (judgment/plagues) upon the false prophets and christs and all professed Christians deceived by them. Consider wisely:

Rev 13:11-14
(11) And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
(12) And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
(13) And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
(14) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Fire comes from God upon false prophets and christs and all CHristians who have not yet sealed (Revelation 9:4) so they will believe a lie. This is how they are deceived so they will not be saved, even if they have desire to die, or seek death but cannot find it. The Days of salvation is over because all Elect has been secured already and the beast has come out to be used by God as a judgment against His House. This will only happen during the "little season" AFTER CHurch is built and Satan loosened! Selah!

Daniel 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time

Their dominion was taken away at the Cross! Their power to deceive has been removed or restrained so that Christ could build his church. Get it! AFTER THAT, after the millennial kingdom, their power to deceive will be restored (granted by God!) which you can see them as the first beast of Revelation 13!

This agrees with Revelation 20, therefore telling us that their lives are prolonged until the time of Revelation 20:9.

Do you even understand? They had their dominion taken away, because they were bound, defeated at the cross, yet they were allowed to continue after thousand years, FOR a season and a time. This is when Satan is marshalling (and deceiving) professed Christian together to come against True Witnesses to wage spiritual war against them, to overcome them, and kill them (silence their testimony).

 

[Davidpt]

Their dominion was taken away at the Cross! Their power to deceive has been removed or restrained so that Christ could build his church. Get it! AFTER THAT, after the millennial kingdom, their power to deceive will be restored (granted by God!) which you can see them as the first beast of Revelation 13!



Do you even understand? They had their dominion taken away, because they were bound, defeated at the cross, yet they were allowed to continue after thousand years, FOR a season and a time. This is when Satan is marshalling (and deceiving) professed Christian together to come against True Witnesses to wage spiritual war against them, to overcome them, and kill them (silence their testimony).

Do you even understand, lol, that what you are proposing is making total nonsense out of the chronology involved?

Meaning how do you reconcile that with the following recorded in that same chapter?

Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.


Clearly, verse 12 is meaning once verse 11 is fulfilled. Do you seriously expect us to believe Preterist nonsense that verse 11 was already fulfilled 2000 years ago? But I thought you weren't even a Preterist? Yet, only Preterists could propose verse 11 has already been fulfilled 2000 years ago. And once again, and I suspect you still don't grasp it, verse 12 cannot come to pass until verse 11 comes to pass first.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Do you even understand, lol, that what you are proposing is making total nonsense out of the chronology involved?

Meaning how do you reconcile that with the following recorded in that same chapter?

Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.


Clearly, verse 12 is meaning once verse 11 is fulfilled.

Its not chronology.
Dan 7:9-12
(9) I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
(10) A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
(11) I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
(12) As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Verse 9-10 speaks of Judgment Day at Second Coming.

Verse 11 speaks of a little season when the little horn (short season of power of the beast) spoke until the beast (body of unbelievers) was slain and thrown in Lake of Fire (obviously when the "judgment was set.) Verse 12 explain who the beast was, that they were once before the Cross deceiving the world, had their dominion taken away by Christ at the Cross so He can built the church then the beasts are allowed to come out of bottomless pit and prolonged for a little season. Remember, the beast cannot come out of bottomless pit until the testimony of Two Witnesses for the purpose of building the church is finished first!

Do you seriously expect us to believe Preterist nonsense that verse 11 was already fulfilled 2000 years ago? But I thought you weren't even a Preterist? Yet, only Preterists could propose verse 11 has already been fulfilled 2000 years ago. And once again, and I suspect you still don't grasp it, verse 12 cannot come to pass until verse 11 comes to pass first.

That is right. I am NOT a Preterist, whether mild, moderate, and extreme (full) as long as they insisted on 70AD theories.