Renewable Salvation

[Behold]

Yes, here we go again with your idiotic lies . . .

Are you saying that water is not required for you to be saved?

Careful now, BreadofLife as you'll have another sin to confess if you say ""> no water is not required for Salvation"..


LOOK>.., and let the Church Father's help you ....

First lets look at the CATHOLIC Encyclopedia..

""""""Regeneration is a Biblico-dogmatic term closely connected with the ideas of justification, Divine sonship, and the deification of the soul through grace. Confining ourselves first to the Biblical use of this term, we find regeneration from God used in indissoluble connection with WATER baptism, which St. Paul expressly calls "the laver of regeneration" . In His discourse with Nicodemus , the Saviour declares: "Unless a man be born again of WATER.... """"""



Catholic Doctrine...

""""" WATER Baptism is defined as the “Sacrament of regeneration by WATER in the word” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 1213). The specific grace given by WATER Baptism produces a regeneration, a rebirth, within the one WATER baptized."""

Augustine​

“By this grace WATER baptized infants too are ingrafted into his [Christ’s] body, infants who certainly are not yet able to imitate anyone. ""

Jerome​

“This much you must know, that WATER baptism forgives past sins"""

Ambrose​

“The Lord was WATER baptized, not to be cleansed himself but to cleanse the waters, so that those WATERS, cleansed by the flesh of Christ which knew no sin, might have the power of water baptism."""

Tertullian​

“A treatise on our sacrament of WATER, by which the sins of our earlier blindness are washed away and we are released for eternal life will not be superfluous…. Taking away death by the washing away of sins. The guilt being removed, the penalty, of course, is also removed…. Water Baptism itself is a corporal act by which we are plunged into the WATER , while its effect is spiritual, in that we are freed from our sins”

 

[APAK]

@APAK still will not answer…

You know you have to give me something that is reasonable so I can actually answer you MI. Thus far you are running around with your chicken head cut off and raving on. Just look what you just gave @Charlie24 in post #337

So are you saying to him and I guess also to me that being obedient to God is not sinning at all? And your mental conclusion is that we can never be obedience to God because we sin, even say 4x a month, angel level status you know...so we are gonna go to the basement floor off the elevator of life. And then you might think we are all doomed since birth etc...wow...

Use scripture, it might help you, and I know it will.

 

[Johann]

Are you saying that water is not required for you to be saved?

Careful now, BreadofLife as you'll have another sin to confess if you say ""> no water is not required for Salvation"..


LOOK>.., and let the Church Father's help you ....

First lets look at the CATHOLIC Encyclopedia..

""""""Regeneration is a Biblico-dogmatic term closely connected with the ideas of justification, Divine sonship, and the deification of the soul through grace. Confining ourselves first to the Biblical use of this term, we find regeneration from God used in indissoluble connection with baptism, which St. Paul expressly calls "the laver of regeneration" . In His discourse with Nicodemus , the Saviour declares: "Unless a man be born again of WATER.... """"""



Catholic Doctrine...

""""" WATER Baptism is defined as the “Sacrament of regeneration by WATER in the word” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 1213). The specific grace given by Baptism produces a regeneration, a rebirth, within the one baptized."""

Augustine​

“By this grace WATER baptized infants too are ingrafted into his [Christ’s] body, infants who certainly are not yet able to imitate anyone. ""

Jerome​

“This much you must know, that WATER baptism forgives past sins"""

Ambrose​

“The Lord was WATER baptized, not to be cleansed himself but to cleanse the waters, so that those WATERS, cleansed by the flesh of Christ which knew no sin, might have the power of water baptism."""

Tertullian​

“A treatise on our sacrament of WATER, by which the sins of our earlier blindness are washed away and we are released for eternal life will not be superfluous…. Taking away death by the washing away of sins. The guilt being removed, the penalty, of course, is also removed…. Water Baptism itself is a corporal act by which we are plunged into the water, while its effect is spiritual, in that we are freed from our sins”

Well, I out of my depth here--personally, I don't enjoy speaking out against other churches, for in every church there are those who have been elected unto salvation--bearing this seal, the Lord knows those that are His--just my 2 cents, for what's it worth.

1Pe_5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

I lived for fourteen years in a block of flats with Muslims and I have witness powerful conversions with some and to this day I have friends among them, in fact, they will put the majority of Christians to shame with their assisting and helping the poor and needy.

I know you are outspoken @Behold but do so in gentleness, clothed with humility brother.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Is that whatever no, or no whatever? Either way works for me. I don't care about dribble posing for rebuke, because someone has run out of excuses against correction.

Petty accusations are the last resort of failed arguments.

I would think posting, "Whatever", first qualifies as dribble posting because one is unable to accept correction.

Whereas posting, "No.", in response simply recognized that fault as well as simply and directly addresses the falsity that persists.

No.
No.
No.

No. You do not have a thing to do with saving yourself. No, God's grace does not need human intercession to secure that which Jesus died and eternally sealed with his blood his new covenant.

No. We are not co-redemptors with Christ in saving ourselves. Insisting that is true nullifies the work of Jesus on the cross.

A false gospel is an act of Treason against God and his kingdom.

Every born again Christian knows how to respond to the false doctrine that seeks to lead people to that falsehood.

No.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@APAK @Charlie24 @mailmandan @Eternally Grateful

Here’s the deal (and you all probably already know it)…

You guys say that no one ever stops sinning.

In fact, that it’s practically impossible to stop sinning.

Despite scriptures that plainly say you can stop sinning (John 5:14, John 8:11, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 5:18, 2 Peter 4:1).

So if what you are all saying is true, then we have a God that unjustly kills and harms people for something they cannot control - sinning behavior.

So will all of you continue promoting a false doctrine that turns God into a heartless merciless unjust executioner of people who can never stop sinning?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Are you saying that water is not required for you to be saved?

Careful now, BreadofLife as you'll have another sin to confess if you say ""> no water is not required for Salvation"..


LOOK>.., and let the Church Father's help you ....

First lets look at the CATHOLIC Encyclopedia..

""""""Regeneration is a Biblico-dogmatic term closely connected with the ideas of justification, Divine sonship, and the deification of the soul through grace. Confining ourselves first to the Biblical use of this term, we find regeneration from God used in indissoluble connection with WATER baptism, which St. Paul expressly calls "the laver of regeneration" . In His discourse with Nicodemus , the Saviour declares: "Unless a man be born again of WATER.... """"""



Catholic Doctrine...

""""" WATER Baptism is defined as the “Sacrament of regeneration by WATER in the word” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 1213). The specific grace given by WATER Baptism produces a regeneration, a rebirth, within the one baptized."""

Augustine​

“By this grace WATER baptized infants too are ingrafted into his [Christ’s] body, infants who certainly are not yet able to imitate anyone. ""

Jerome​

“This much you must know, that WATER baptism forgives past sins"""

Ambrose​

“The Lord was WATER baptized, not to be cleansed himself but to cleanse the waters, so that those WATERS, cleansed by the flesh of Christ which knew no sin, might have the power of water baptism."""

Tertullian​

“A treatise on our sacrament of WATER, by which the sins of our earlier blindness are washed away and we are released for eternal life will not be superfluous…. Taking away death by the washing away of sins. The guilt being removed, the penalty, of course, is also removed…. Water Baptism itself is a corporal act by which we are plunged into the WATER , while its effect is spiritual, in that we are freed from our sins”

Nope - not what I said at all.
I said that YOU lied when YOU said that the Church teaches that we are saved "BY" water.

Even the excerpt above from the CATHOLIC Encyclopedia proves my point that the Church teaches that we are born again THROUGH the water of Baptism -- and not "BY" it. All of the quotes above from the ECFs also disprove your lie.

I guess YOU went to the Joseph Goebbels School of Apologetics, where the motto was:
"If you repeat a lie long enough - it becomes the truth" . . .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@mailmandan with his preconceived prejudices?
Catholic church aside, I'm not here to attack any church--what facts are you referring to written by HIS people? [mailmandan]
And the laughing emoji's?

We are to submit to one another

1Pe_5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

Please clarify this for me
Johann

it was in response to someone telling dan he was more worried about truth.

 

[ButterflyJones]

SELF promotion, SELF righteousness and SELF preservation all stems from PRIDE. For these folks it's all about SELF. Me, Me, Me, I, I, I.

It's Satanic.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The following quote is from a website railing on sinless perfectionism:

“No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. This holds true for everyone.”

Compare with:

“My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war. Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment. How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.” (Jeremiah 4:19-22)

But:

“No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. This holds true for everyone.”

WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE???

@mailmandan @Eternally Grateful @APAK @BreadOfLife

 

[Michiah-Imla]

It's Satanic.

No!

It’s sin that’s satanic!

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil…” (1 John 3:9-10)

 

[ButterflyJones]

No!

It’s sin that’s satanic!

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil…” (1 John 3:9-10

Where there is no law there is no sin is not imputed.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Where there is no law there is no sin is not imputed.

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” (Romans 3:31)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Where there is no law there is no sin is not imputed.

He does not comprehend that the law exposes sin so we can come to christ.

once we have been led to christ, we have no more need of the law

it is then established as it was intended.

He waters down the law.. then screams at everyone else to keep it.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

He waters down the law..

I don’t do that.

Neither does God.

Do you think it makes sense that God does these things to a people incapable of ceasing from sin?

“For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.” (Jeremiah 4:31)

??? @Eternally Grateful

 

[APAK]

@APAK @Charlie24 @mailmandan @Eternally Grateful

Here’s the deal (and you all probably already know it)…

You guys say that no one be ever stops sinning.

In fact, that it’s practically impossible to stop sinning.

Despite scriptures that plainly say you can stop sinning (John 5:14, John 8:11, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 5:18, 2 Peter 4:1).

So if what you are all saying is true, then we have a God that unjustly kills and harms people for something they cannot control - sinning behavior.

So will all of you continue promoting a false doctrine that turns God into a heartless merciless unjust executioner of people who can never stop sinning?

I'll tell you what, let me help you out with what might be troubling you. And by the way, God is never heartless or merciless and unjust. He is gracious and loving beyond our experience and understanding. I would never support such a notion or agree with you if you preached such a false claim, especially from scripture. Although you and I can be all of these things you just mentioned about God at times...and including committing unrighteous sin.

Now God is so loving and merciful and gracious that he provided us the way to overcome and discount sin MI. Yes, God hates sin indeed. You really know the answers to your own questions. It's right there in scripture.

You need to connect the concept of sinning in the flesh with the concept of personal salvation in the renewed spirit and heart of a person. The latter takes care of the former flesh nature that causes sin. And this salvation is the grace of God that clearly shows he is never those things you believe or think someone like me or others believe, as you do. So please do not mistake me and others thinking we preach a false doctrine. I'm afraid you might be doing just that here and if not you really are having a very difficult time explaining yourself as a faithful servant and believer in Christ....

just saying....

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@APAK still not answering the simple question.

Why?

 

[Behold]

Nope - not what I said at all.
I said that YOU lied when YOU said that the Church teaches that we are saved "BY" water.

I posted Church Father's quotes that state it.

I posted Catholic Encyclopedia that stated it.

I posted the literal catholic Doctrine, and the very bible's verse that states it.

I posted Jerome's very words, = who is responsible for the demonic Catholic bible.....and he said the water washes away sin., and you read it, and now you have no where to go but, ....... denial.

So, BreadofLife, i dont blame you for trying to hide the truth., as im sure if i was a water cult person, having given my iife to such junk, and realized it......it would be difficult to step away from a lifetime of deception.
But i would do it,, and i would get my family out of it.
You can't.

 

[Behold]

1Pe_5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

Its the teaching, the doctrine, that is what you are not to love or accept.


Jude told us......to .. "contend for the real faith"......and that means to deny deception with vigor.

Catholic Doctrine, the "cult of Mary", teaches that water washes away your sin.
That denies the Cross, Spits on the Grace of God, and is "another Gospel".
Paul said this stuff is a "doctrine of devils'... .. you dont 'LOVE" something that can destroy the faith of someone ELSE.

This is a Christian FORUM,. its words, text, teaching, that is often just incredible deception.....so, we dont have to "love" that...

See, .... the deceived are already so far in the dark that they are teaching the darkness in Public.
You dont "love" that. You EXPOSE that.......And that is a person's teaching against truth...usually against the Cross........so, the love is.........the LOVE is.....to keep them from harming a believer who isn't deceived as they are deceived.
There is the LOVE that is necessary. and that does fall under the domain of "fight the good fight of Faith".

 

[ButterflyJones]

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” (Romans 3:31)

Romans 5

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Romans 5​

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 5 - New English Translation

The Expectation of Justification - Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have also obtained access into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of God’s glory. Not only this, but we also...

www.biblegateway.com

The Amplification of Justification​

12 So then, just as sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all people[n] because[o] all sinned— 13 for before the law was given,[p] sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin[q] when there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam until Moses even over those who did not sin in the same way that Adam (who is a type[r] of the coming one) transgressed.[s] 15 But the gracious gift is not like the transgression.[t] For if the many died through the transgression of the one man,[u] how much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one man Jesus Christ multiply to the many! 16 And the gift is not like the one who sinned.[v] For judgment, resulting from the one transgression,[w] led to condemnation, but[x] the gracious gift from the many failures[y] led to justification.

 

[Charlie24]

That’s not the issue.

Question:

DOES GOD KILL AND HARM PEOPLE INCAPABLE OF OBEYING HIM, INCAPABLE OF CEASING FROM SIN?

What do you mean, "God kills people? Man kills himself through his own sin. "For the wages of sin is death."

Fallen man cannot help but sin. But when one comes to Christ he receives a new nature in Christ, he now sees things differently.

Nevertheless, the sin nature is not removed from those in Christ, that sin nature is checkpoint for the believer.

When we, and I mean all of us, take our eyes off Christ, that sin nature raises its ugly head and the "old man" is revived, just as Paul told us!

Yes, the born-again have a new nature, but you had better hurry up and believe that old sin nature will come alive the moment we are enticed by sin, and pursue it. There's not a single one of us who haven't done this, but that does NOT stop the flow of Grace from God through our faith.

The point is that when one comes to Christ, there is a change of heart, and that is what counts to God. That heart for God will always bring man to his knees in repentance for his wrong doing. But the Grace is still flowing toward that person just as if no sin was committed. That is the Grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. Make no mistake, as Paul told us, Grace is NOT a license to sin!