Renewable Salvation

[Johann]

Are dishonest.

They won’t answer the question because it exposes how flawed their doctrine is.

Case closed.

Yes, case closed, hopefully.
J.

 

[Johann]

He does not understand the purpose of the cross. And what Christ did on the cross sadly.

That's sad, and we are all getting older and some don't like to be corrected.
J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Catholics don't create history, even when the facts makes us look bad. Popes have publicly apologized for the sins committed by some crazy Catholics centuries ago, which has no relevance in todays world. Popes accept accountability for centuries old sins they had nothing to with with. It's called responsible leadership, something totally unheard of from the Protestant world.
The word of God contains history, but it is not a history book. You are faced with the IMPOSSIBLE task of re-writing early church history based on the Bible alone. We don't have that problem.

But this is an attack in itself, assuming the Pope replaces or supplants God. It's a stupid insult that you commit automatically, without thinking.
I presented 4 test questions that demolishes the pagan influence fallacy, based on facts, logic and reason. Not "Catholic history" (another insult).

1) Is there a parallel? Frequently, there is not.​

2) Is the parallel dependent or independent?​

3) Is the parallel antecedent or consequent?​

4) Is the parallel treated positively, neutrally, or negatively?​

Your response to these challenging questions is​

This is called cognitive dissonance.
View attachment 30146

The 4 questions makes mincemeat out of mailmandan's sick video that neither of you will deal with.

my friend,

You made history (your church)

They created history.. they even admit theyu destroyed anything that did not support them, or they considered heresy. then tell you no one believed different than you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, case closed, hopefully.
J.

he has been answered so many times, we just give up.

Don;t listen to his propoganda

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's sad, and we are all getting older and some don't like to be corrected.
J.

sadly, I was there once

 

[Johann]

he has been answered so many times, we just give up.

Don;t listen to his propoganda

1_Timothy 6:5
constant friction of people of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. Withdraw yourself from such.

2_Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks in rebellion, and not after the tradition which they received from us.

Scriptures is emphatically clear ............

2Ti_3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.

We all make mistakes, but if a person is not WILLING to receive correction--withdraw/turn away--strong words in Greek.

Shalom
J.

 

[Charlie24]

@mailmandan @Eternally Grateful @APAK

You all think it’s absurd to stop sinning.

So…

Do you all suppose God was just being cruel by giving his people these conditions that he knew they couldn’t keep according to the doctrine of “no one can be sinless”?

“If you will diligently listen to the voice of the LORD your God, and do that which is right in his eyes, and give ear to his commandments and keep all his statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you that I put on the Egyptians…” (Exodus 15:26)

They're not dishonest! They are telling the truth!

Jesus cried out through the streets of Jerusalem, "did not Moses give you the Law, yet none of you have kept it."

He was pointing to Himself, and what He was about to do for mankind.

Just as Paul said, "the Law was our schoolmaster to point us to Christ."

No man has ever kept the Law of Moses, but Christ, and no man will ever keep the Commandments of Christ, but by faith, depending on Him to fulfill that righteousness in us.

That's the purpose of Grace, God giving us something we don't deserve, His righteousness, that we can't achieve on our own.

Even though we don't want to fail God through sin, we are still fallen man and will fail Him at times, but His Grace through our faith holds us steadfast, places us in a position of righteousness that we don't deserve.

At the Council in Jerusalem, when the Apostles gathered together to decide if the Gentiles who were now being saved, were they to be held to the Law of Moses? What did Peter say, and they all agreed?

Acts 15:10-11

Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."

These Gentiles were saved by Grace through faith alone, "apart from the works of the Law or Commandments." Even as Peter is saying here!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Charlie24

Just answer the question.

Do you believe that God kills and harms people who cannot stop sinning?

Who cannot stop disobeying him?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Jesus cried out through the streets of Jerusalem, "did not Moses give you the Law, yet none of you have kept it."

Yes, because they chose not to keep it!

Just as Paul said, "the Law was our schoolmaster to point us to Christ."

For our sins that the law could not take away. This is Not the issue.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well I'm sorry if you feel that I used more words expressed than needed in my post, but I like to be thorough in my explanations. Not that you will care either way to seriously consider what I have to say. Your beliefs are obviously fixed and your conscience is seared.


I hear this argument all the time from thoroughly indoctrinated Roman Catholics who refuse to repent and believe the gospel. Former Roman Catholics who leave the RCC after coming to realize that the RCC teaches a false gospel (among other things) and come to believe the true gospel for themselves are typically accused of being a "nominal" Catholic and ignorant of what the RCC really teaches, which may even lead to gaslighting.


I read your post and what you said is what I've heard many times before from other Roman Catholics. Same old sugar coated double talk, deceit and rhetoric.


A distinction without a difference. Whether you call it faith + works or faith = belief + works (surrender/obedience) or faith "infused" with works t's still salvation by faith AND works no matter how much you try and sugar coat it. Faith that saves is belief, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and obedience which "follows" is works. The Roman Catholic church clearly mixes faith and works together for salvation and promotes a false gospel.


I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic on a different Christian forum who claims that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by faith AND works, then afterwards, he contradicted himself by saying this below:

We are saved by faith, as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is not simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: being water baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking of the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc...

His argument about the Roman Catholic church not teaching salvation by faith AND works then turning around and re-defining faith as not simply believing, but also INCLUDES these works listed above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith AND works no matter how much he tries to spin it or sugar coat it.


You sound like a crafty lawyer who is motivated by pride and it out to win his case for the RCC at all costs. Whatever it takes! So I really don't see this conversation going anywhere either. No matter how many times your arguments are refuted, you will simply dismiss what is said as lies and ignorance. A skilled lawyer can twist and manipulate anything to make it sound like they won their case.

I’m not a “skilled lawyer”. I’m just a Catholic who prefers to debate FACTS instead of preconceives prejudices.
YOU obviously don’t.

When I called you a ”nominal” former Catholic – it wasn’t meant as an insult. It was merely based on my observation of your perception of what you believe the Catholic Church teaches. Even your use of the “Roman Catholic Church” is flawed, as there is NO such thing. “Roman” refers to the Liturgical Rite that I belong to. There are about TWENTY others including the Maronite, Byzantine, Alexandrian, Melkite, Coptic and others. NONE of them are “Roman” Catholics – but they are ALL Catholics.

The official name of the Catholic Church is – “The Catholic Church”.

The Catholic Church doesn’t “mix” anything that the Bible doesn’t. YOUR idea that we don’t have to cooperate with God’s grace in order to be saved is what is anti-Biblical. This was a 16th century invention of your Protestant Fathers – and NOT a teaching of Jesus or the Apostles.

Tell me – in the Lesson of the Sheep and the Goats (Matt. 25:31-46) – WHO makes it into Heaven?
The Goats, that didn’t cooperate – or the Sheep that DID??

What does Jesus warn in Matt 7:21? That whoever calls on His name will be saved, as stated in Rom. 10:13 – or ONLY the one who DOES the will of the Father (Gal. 5:6)??

According to Paul – WHO will reap glory, honor and immortality? The one who DOES the will oif God – the one who doesn’t (Rom. 2:6-8)??

Does Peter teach that we will be judged merely by our belief – or by how we conduct ourselves (1 Pet. 1:17)??

In Rev. 20:12 – HOW are the people being judged? By their belief – or by their behavior??

As James taught – if ALL you do is “believe” – then you’re NO better off than the DEMONS who do the same (James 2:19).

YOUR problem – as is the problem with ALL anti-Catholics is that you erroneously teach that Catholic believe that the works we do are of our OWN. As I already told you – we teach that these are works prepared FOR us in advance by GOD (Eph. 2:10). We either cooperate with Him then – or we don’t.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1_Timothy 6:5
constant friction of people of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. Withdraw yourself from such.

2_Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks in rebellion, and not after the tradition which they received from us.

Scriptures is emphatically clear ............

2Ti_3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.

We all make mistakes, but if a person is not WILLING to receive correction--withdraw/turn away--strong words in Greek.

Shalom
J.

amen, This is what I have done

 

[Charlie24]

@Charlie24

Just answer the question.

Do you believe that God kills and harms people who cannot stop sinning?

Who cannot stop disobeying him?

It's the matter of the condition of the heart to God!

There is not a single person who has ever lived, minus Christ, who had no sin, who didn't deserve the flames of hell!

But by His Grace, we are placed in Christ, that which we all are undeserving.

I know myself of some who are trapped in sin, desiring to be released, and they are just as saved anyone.

That deliverance will come for them, but if it doesn't before they leave this world, through their faith they will spend eternity with Christ!

Through the fall of man some of us are weaker through the flesh than others, but God created an equalizer, so to speak, His Grace.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They're not dishonest! They are telling the truth!

Jesus cried out through the streets of Jerusalem, "did not Moses give you the Law, yet none of you have kept it."

He was pointing to Himself, and what He was about to do for mankind.

Just as Paul said, "the Law was our schoolmaster to point us to Christ."

No man has ever kept the Law of Moses, but Christ, and no man will ever keep the Commandments of Christ, but by faith, depending on Him to fulfill that righteousness in us.

That's the purpose of Grace, God giving us something we don't deserve, His righteousness, that we can't achieve on our own.

Even though we don't want to fail God through sin, we are still fallen man and will fail Him at times, but His Grace through our faith holds us steadfast, places us in a position of righteousness that we don't deserve.

At the Council in Jerusalem, when the Apostles gathered together to decide if the Gentiles who were now being saved, were they to be held to the Law of Moses? What did Peter say, and they all agreed?

Acts 15:10-11

Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."

These Gentiles were saved by Grace through faith alone, "apart from the works of the Law or Commandments." Even as Peter is saying here!

amen!!!!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I’m not a “skilled lawyer”. I’m just a Catholic who prefers to debate FACTS instead of preconceives prejudices.
YOU obviously don’t.

Remember @mailmandan He prefers HIS facts, written by HIS people. And his preconceived prejudices....

then he attacks you

the true meaning of hypocrisy

 

[APAK]

You don’t understand?

God punishes people for sinning.

Why does God do that if it’s true that no one can cease from sinning?

Well if this topic is so important to you as to bring it up to me as apparently you want my expert opinion and understanding of it, I believe I must be privileged by the way, then first take a chill pill and let's see what logic sequence you have used here aye?

Lightly paraphrasing your words and meaning...

1. We cannot stop sinning.
2. God punishes people for sinning
3. Therefore all mankind is punished

Now can you expound on this with some basis and understanding, especially if you have faith in Christ and are considered saved. Or are you currently unsaved and might be on the rebound, to be saved again in a few days time.

Thanks.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Remember @mailmandan He prefers HIS facts, written by HIS people. And his preconceived prejudices....

then he attacks you

the true meaning of hypocrisy

Thank you.
The "facts" I included in my last post were all Biblical.

You're right - they ARE my people . . .

 

[Michiah-Imla]

There is not a single person who has ever lived, minus Christ, who had no sin, who didn't deserve the flames of hell!

That’s not the issue.

Question:

DOES GOD KILL AND HARM PEOPLE INCAPABLE OF OBEYING HIM, INCAPABLE OF CEASING FROM SIN?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@APAK still will not answer…

 

[Johann]

Remember @mailmandan He prefers HIS facts, written by HIS people. And his preconceived prejudices....

then he attacks you

the true meaning of hypocrisy

@mailmandan with his preconceived prejudices?
Catholic church aside, I'm not here to attack any church--what facts are you referring to written by HIS people? [mailmandan]
And the laughing emoji's?

We are to submit to one another

1Pe_5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

Please clarify this for me
Johann

 

[Johann]

That’s not the issue.

Question:

DOES GOD KILL AND HARM PEOPLE INCAPABLE OF OBEYING HIM, INCAPABLE OF CEASING FROM SIN?

Maybe if you rephrase your question.....