Renewable Salvation

[BreadOfLife]

BoL I don't think we have ever agreed on anything, but I do share your belief that our works are prepared for us and they are not our own, but credited to us through faith in the finished work of Christ.

But the things you are saying here are not what I'm hearing from the RCC. They have a firm belief that faith and works are necessary for salvation. This means faith + works = salvation, this is not Biblical.

No - what I explained is the Catholic position.
It's not Faith + Works - it's Faith = Belief + Works (surrender/obedience)

 

[mailmandan]

The Catholic Church doesn't teach that we are saved BY works.
WHO told you that?

I did not say works alone, but faith AND works. I've heard it all my life. I was raised in the Roman Catholic church.

The Church teaches that we are saved by the grace of God because of what Jesus did on the cross and His Resurrection.
HOWEVER, as the Bible clearly teaches - works are an essential element of faith - and NOT just a byproduct of it.

There it is. A distinction without a difference. Faith "infused" with works (essential element) of faith and not just a by product of it. You just made my case.

Paul makes this crystal clear . . .
1 Cor. 13:11-3
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

In 1 Corinthians 13, Paul is stressing that love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after the "evidence of things not seen" are now seen (Hebrews 11:1) once we are in the presence of the Lord and we are no longer looking for the "blessed hope" - (expectation of what is sure) and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13) because He has appeared and believers will be with Him forever, love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity in the new heaven and new earth. So Paul is not teaching that we are saved by faith "plus acts of love/works." All genuine BELIEVERS love Christ. Why? Because we have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel. (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. (1 John 4:7-8)

Gal. 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

Those with genuine faith have love and faith works through love. (Galatians 5:6) If we have faith, then we have hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1) Paul is simply using hyperbole in 1 Corinthians 13 to stress the importance of love and is not teaching salvation by faith and works.

He explains that the works that are PART of out faith were prepared for us in advance by God (Eph. 2:10). They are not our own – otherwise, they would NOT be efficacious.

Works are not part of faith. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but works are NOT the very essence of faith and are also not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation. The saved by "these" works and just not "those" works argument is also bogus. We are not saved by works in general. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..)

Jesus drives this point ho mini the Lesson of the Sheep and the Goats (Matt. 25:31-46).

After a casual reading of the lesson of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-46), these verses "on the surface" seem to suggest that salvation is the result of good works. However, all Scripture proves itself right and non-contradictory when compared with the totality of Scripture. This passage has to be taken alongside the whole of Scripture. Jesus was not advocating salvation by works. That would be contrary to Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9; etc... One's works are an effect of (and therefore indication of) one's salvation status, rather than being a cause of one's salvation.

The good deeds mentioned in Matthew 25:35-36 is the fruit that is manifest in the lives of the redeemed. Those who are placed at Christ's right hand are not there based on the merits of their good deeds, but because the righteousness of God has been imputed to them. (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) When works are mentioned in connection with salvation, the works are always the result of, not the condition of, obtaining salvation. The stress is on works as a manifestation of one's faith (or lack thereof) and not simply on faith from which these works "follow" and are produced by. So it is understandable that in this context, Matthew would stress the works that are a manifestation of "faith by which one receives eternal life."

Notice how love for other Christians is an indication of one's salvation status: 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. He who practices righteousness and loves his brother does so BECAUSE he is "of God" and not in order to become of God. 1 John 3:14 - We know that we have (past tense) passed from death to life, because we love our brothers (present tense). Loving our brothers is the result of, not the condition of passing from death to life.

This is why James warns that faith without works is DEAD (James 2:24).

That's because authentic faith in Christ results in producing works. Although all genuine believers are fruitful, not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23) James' warning is in regards to an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14) Man is saved through faith and not by works, yet genuine faith is evidenced by works. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Simple.

He explains that if ALL you do is “believe” – then you’re NO better off than the DEMONS (James 2:19).
Faith = Belief + Surrender/Obedience

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. Faith is belief in, trust in, reliance in and obedience which "follows" is works. You don't seem to make a distinction between faith AND works. You basically wrap both faith AND works up in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package. Catholics clearly teach salvation by faith AND works.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Pope told you that., BreadofLife

The Pope teaches that "baptismal regeneration" is how you are saved.
He lied to Billions and enjoys it every time.

His entire "cult of mary" priesthood teaches it.

1.) "water is required for salvation', or as the demonic Douay Rheims "bible" teaches., in John 3

>"Born again BY water".<

God says we are born again by the Holy Spirit., not by the city water supply.

Here is an eternal update for you, BreadofLife, .. the water didn't wash away your sin.. even if you were sprinkled, confirmed, and dunked 53 more times this week.

Now.. BreadofLife......did.you want to tell us again.... that Noah & Family were saved by the water that was killing everything that moved by drowning everything that had breath on the entire surface of the planet including NOAH and FAMILY had they got in that "saving water".?

Good with that "water cult"...= nonsense.

What you should do, is go any Jehovah's Witness forum, as they teach that theological garbage, also.
You'd be a hero there, but here, on a Christian forum, you're just a obvious deceiver, who's deceived and exposed again.

See you there, "Einstein"...

Yes, here we go again with your idiotic lies . . .

That’s NOT what the Douay-Rhiems translations says in John 3:5 – and I have repeatedly corrected you on this point.

John 3:5 (Doiuay-Rhiems Version)
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again OF WATER and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:5 (King James Version)
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born OF WATER and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

As for your moronic drivel with regard to Noah, as described in 1 Pet. 3 – you go that one WRONG , too.
NOBODY was saved BY water in that passage – but THROUGH water:

1 Pet. 3:19-22
After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved THROUGH WATER, and this water symbolizes BAPTISM THAT NOW SAVES YOU ALSO—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

NOT sure if it’s because you just have a simple reading problem – if maybe you’re just NOT that bright . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I did not say works alone, but faith AND works. I've heard it all my life. I was raised in the Roman Catholic church.


There it is. A distinction without a difference. Faith "infused" with works (essential element) of faith and not just a by product of it. You just made my case.


In 1 Corinthians 13, Paul is stressing that love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after the "evidence of things not seen" are now seen (Hebrews 11:1) once we are in the presence of the Lord and we are no longer looking for the "blessed hope" - (expectation of what is sure) and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13) because He has appeared and believers will be with Him forever, love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity in the new heaven and new earth. So Paul is not teaching that we are saved by faith "plus acts of love/works." All genuine BELIEVERS love Christ. Why? Because we have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel. (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. (1 John 4:7-8)


Those with genuine faith have love and faith works through love. (Galatians 5:6) If we have faith, then we have hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1) Paul is simply using hyperbole in 1 Corinthians 13 to stress the importance of love and is not teaching salvation by faith and works.


Works are not part of faith. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but works are the essence of faith and are also not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation. The saved by "these" works and just not "those" works argument is also bogus. We are not saved by works in general. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..)


After a casual reading of the lesson of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-46), these verses "on the surface" seem to suggest that salvation is the result of good works. However, all Scripture proves itself right and non-contradictory when compared with the totality of Scripture. This passage has to be taken alongside the whole of Scripture. Jesus was not advocating salvation by works. That would be contrary to Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9; etc... One's works are an effect of (and therefore indication of) one's salvation status, rather than being a cause of one's salvation.

The good deeds mentioned in Matthew 25:35-36 is the fruit that is manifest in the lives of the redeemed. Those who are placed at Christ's right hand are not there based on the merits of their good deeds, but because the righteousness of God has been imputed to them. (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) When works are mentioned in connection with salvation, the works are always the result of, not the condition of, obtaining salvation. The stress is on works as a manifestation of one's faith (or lack thereof) and not simply on faith from which these works "follow" and are produced by. So it is understandable that in this context, Matthew would stress the works that are a manifestation of "faith by which one receives eternal life."

Notice how love for other Christians is an indication of one's salvation status: 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. He who practices righteousness and loves his brother does so BECAUSE he is "of God" and not in order to become of God. 1 John 3:14 - We know that we have (past tense) passed from death to life, because we love our brothers (present tense). Loving our brothers is the result of, not the condition of passing from death to life.


That's because authentic faith in Christ results in producing works. Although all genuine believers are fruitful, not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23) James' warning is in regards to an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14) Man is saved through faith and not by works, yet genuine faith is evidenced by works. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Simple.


In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. Faith is belief in, trust in, reliance in and obedience which "follows" is works. You don't seem to make a distinction between faith AND works. You basically wrap both faith AND works up in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package. Catholics clearly teach salvation by faith AND works.

After reading your verbose response – a couple things are clear . . .

1. You MAY have once been a nominal Catholic – but you were an ignorant one. That’s why you left.
Your post does NOT reflect the correct Catholic teaching.

2. It is abundantly-clear that you either didn’t’ read my post – or you simply dismissed it and continued with your original anti-Catholic rant. Most of your post above has already been addressed.

I never claimed anything about “faith + Works”. In fact – I flatly- rejected that description.
I said that Faith itself includes works. Works are an element – a building block of faith – not an addendum too it.

A nd although I find it immensely satisfying to publicly-refute anti-Catholic lies – I just don’t see this conversation going anywhere if you’re simply going to dismiss everything I say as if I never said it. Your buddy, Behold thrives on that sort of bizarre fantasy - but I only deal in FACTS . . .

 

[Raccoon1010]

No - what I explained is the Catholic position.
It's not Faith + Works - it's Faith = Belief + Works (surrender/obedience)

That actually sounds pretty smart and better than what I was explaining. I have noticed the Catholics have thought a lot thru regarding the scriptures. I'm not convinced they have it all correct though.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

After reading your verbose response

Verbose - good word usage there.

 

[robert derrick]

You and a few others here don't need Christ crucified to forgive your sins. It is evident you can keep the Laws of God perfectly.

We all need Christ crucified to forgive our sinning. Not all are sinning with need to be forgiven.

It is evident you do not keep the law of Christ perfectly, if at all. That can only be due to a double heart, that is not whole and perfect with God.

Repent of your double minded spiritual uncleanness, and the outward will also be every whit clean.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

So rather than be exempt from judgement through faith in Christ,

Rather than exempt, you are judged worse than them that don't claim Christ at all.

you will be judged on your performance in keeping those Laws and Commandments.

We all are. Your performance is obviously dismal.

But with a pure spirit first, so that there is no need to judge wickedness, since it is impossible for evil fruit to come from good and hole roots.

You've already judged yourself as guilty for not keeping the law and commandments of the Lord.

In my case, I can do nothing to earn salvation,

You case is comes pitifully short

so I trust totally in the performance of Christ.

Christ performs perfectly, your performance is dismal.

Any good works that are accomplished through me are the works He prepared for me,

You have no good works while doing works of the flesh.

I don't claim those works,

That's because you don't have them.

I'm just doing what God expects me to do,

Then do His word, keep His commandments, and stop blaspheming His law.

So good luck on that, Robert.

I want nothing to do with that.

 

[robert derrick]

Your offense against God's grace and eternal irrevocable grace gift of Salvation blinds you.

I have no eyes for your gospel.

 

[robert derrick]

the credit due HIM ALONE for saving us and keeping us saved.

Believing in Jesus alone as the one true Christ of God, and doing His word only, is not the heresy of OSAS being saved by faith alone while doing unrighteousness.

Why?
Because that is the "Preaching of THE CROSS" that is.... ""THE Gospel of the GRACE of God. ""
That's PAUL's Gospel....and that is all i preach, as all i teach is "Pauline Theology."

Paul preaches against works without faith, and James preaches against faith without works.

Paul rebukes self-righteous Pharisees, and James rebukes self-justifying OSAS Christians.

What did you say Robert Derrick.... "you say they dont exit"? Yes i know, but you can spell "cross"in your next post, if you like., or you can go and edit ALL your Threads and Posts that dont have the Cross in them,

Lot's of Scripture have no cross in them.

when you are talking about Salvation... You can add a few "crosses" to them..

No man is saved without taking up his own cross for Christ's sake. Piggy backing Jesus's cross is not only impossible, but lazy and hypocritical.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge...

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

Robert, Notice how many times you state in most of your posts or Threads that discuss SALVATION... that Jesus isn't enough

Still you're same old lie. Repeating a lie doesn't make it true with me.

and some works and commandments and repenting and confessing, need to be up there on the CROSS with Him.

Up on our cross. You can't climb up on Jesus's cross, because you aren't there at the time. And if you were there, you wouldn't have climbed up on His cross, just like all the rest that forsook Him.

You imaginary climbing on his cross is a wild boast, that you would not have done, given the chance a couple thousand years ago.

You're not fooling me .....

I'm not trying to. I'm not even trying to convince you. You mistake my purpose here. The only reason I respond to you is an exercise in rebuking false teaching. I have nothing personal against you. I wouldn't be surprised you live a spiritually pure and clean life, but you will be judged for your doctrine of saved by faith alone that increases ungodliness for those who actually practise it.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Jesus doesn't say Jezebel is committing fornication, but only teaching others how to do so, without being condemned with fornicators.

Do You want to see some CONFUSION being birthed,??? = then read anything "the" Episkopos posts.....Videos, Threads... any of it.
He's mastered it., and so have you.

My mastery mostly comes from correcting errors like yours. Until I saw them here, I would have never guessed there are Christians that actually believe and teach it. I mean, I heard of OSAS, but I never saw the dirty little details of it before with need to correct them. So thank you.

 

[robert derrick]

Good day sir.. You are not sincere. all you want to do is argue. I will do to you as I do with another one that is puffed up and just not respond to you anymore

You've said that before once or twice. You'll be back in due time, like a moth to the flame. In the meantime, I will enjoy the peace and quiet.

 

[ButterflyJones]

I have no eyes for your gospel.

You have no eyes for Jesus Gospel. Which is why you first believe he needs your help to save you.

You, you, you.

 

[robert derrick]

You have no eyes for Jesus Gospel. Which is why you first believe he needs your help to save you.

You, you, you.

Whatever.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Whatever.

No.

 

[robert derrick]

No.

Is that whatever no, or no whatever? Either way works for me. I don't care about dribble posing for rebuke, because someone has run out of excuses against correction.

Petty accusations are the last resort of failed arguments.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have no eyes for Jesus Gospel. Which is why you first believe he needs your help to save you.

You, you, you.

thats the problem with the legalist. they can not stop with the me me me

they can;t stop boasting, and are so unaware of their pride. they can;t even see they are doing it

 

[mailmandan]

BreadOfLife said: After reading your verbose response – a couple things are clear . . .

Well I'm sorry if you feel that I used more words expressed than needed in my post, but I like to be thorough in my explanations. Not that you will care either way to seriously consider what I have to say. Your beliefs are obviously fixed and your conscience is seared.

1. You MAY have once been a nominal Catholic – but you were an ignorant one. That’s why you left.
Your post does NOT reflect the correct Catholic teaching.

I hear this argument all the time from thoroughly indoctrinated Roman Catholics who refuse to repent and believe the gospel. Former Roman Catholics who leave the RCC after coming to realize that the RCC teaches a false gospel (among other things) and come to believe the true gospel for themselves are typically accused of being a "nominal" Catholic and ignorant of what the RCC really teaches, which may even lead to gaslighting.

2. It is abundantly-clear that you either didn’t’ read my post – or you simply dismissed it and continued with your original anti-Catholic rant. Most of your post above has already been addressed.

I read your post and what you said is what I've heard many times before from other Roman Catholics. Same old sugar coated double talk, deceit and rhetoric.

It's not Faith + Works - it's Faith = Belief + Works (surrender/obedience)

A distinction without a difference. Whether you call it faith + works or faith = belief + works (surrender/obedience) or faith "infused" with works t's still salvation by faith AND works no matter how much you try and sugar coat it. Faith that saves is belief, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and obedience which "follows" is works. The Roman Catholic church clearly mixes faith and works together for salvation and promotes a false gospel.

I never claimed anything about “faith + Works”. In fact – I flatly- rejected that description.
I said that Faith itself includes works. Works are an element – a building block of faith – not an addendum too it.

I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic on a different Christian forum who claims that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by faith AND works, then afterwards, he contradicted himself by saying this below:

We are saved by faith, as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is not simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: being water baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking of the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc...

His argument about the Roman Catholic church not teaching salvation by faith AND works then turning around and re-defining faith as not simply believing, but also INCLUDES these works listed above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith AND works no matter how much he tries to spin it or sugar coat it.

And although I find it immensely satisfying to publicly-refute anti-Catholic lies – I just don’t see this conversation going anywhere if you’re simply going to dismiss everything I say as if I never said it. Your buddy, Behold thrives on that sort of bizarre fantasy - but I only deal in FACTS . . .

You sound like a crafty lawyer who is motivated by pride and is out to win his case for the RCC at all costs. Whatever it takes! So, I really don't see this conversation going anywhere either. No matter how many times your arguments are refuted, you will simply dismiss what is said as lies and ignorance. A skilled lawyer can twist and manipulate anything to make it sound like they won their case.

 

[mailmandan]

You have no eyes for Jesus Gospel. Which is why you first believe he needs your help to save you.

You, you, you.

2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Jesus does not need our help to save us. We need Him. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:24-28) No supplements needed.

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well I'm sorry if you feel that I used more words expressed than needed in my post, but I like to be thorough in my explanations. Not that you will care either way to seriously consider what I have to say. Your beliefs are obviously fixed and your conscience is seared.


I hear this argument all the time from thoroughly indoctrinated Roman Catholics who refuse to repent and believe the gospel. Former Roman Catholics who leave the RCC after coming to realize that the RCC teaches a false gospel (among other things) and come to believe the true gospel for themselves are typically accused of being a "nominal" Catholic and ignorant of what the RCC really teaches, which may even lead to gaslighting.


I read your post and what you said is what I've heard many times before from other Roman Catholics. Same old sugar coated double talk, deceit and rhetoric.


A distinction without a difference. Whether you call it faith + works or faith = belief + works (surrender/obedience) or faith "infused" with works t's still salvation by faith AND works no matter how much you try and sugar coat it. Faith that saves is belief, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and obedience which "follows" is works. The Roman Catholic church clearly mixes faith and works together for salvation and promotes a false gospel.


I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic on a different Christian forum who claims that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by faith AND works, then afterwards, he contradicted himself by saying this below:

We are saved by faith, as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is not simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: being water baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking of the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc...

His argument about the Roman Catholic church not teaching salvation by faith AND works then turning around and re-defining faith as not simply believing, but also INCLUDES these works listed above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith AND works no matter how much he tries to spin it or sugar coat it.


You sound like a crafty lawyer who is motivated by pride and it out to win his case for the RCC at all costs. Whatever it takes! So I really don't see this conversation going anywhere either. No matter how many times your arguments are refuted, you will simply dismiss what is said as lies and ignorance. A skilled lawyer can twist and manipulate anything to make it sound like they won their case.

Like I have said many times.. If I was going to be a legalism. I would be a catholic

they have the most ways to heaven, if if all their works fail. You still have purgatory..

I also believe it is why it is the most popular church. inspite of its history of rape carnage and murder

 

[mailmandan]

Like I have said many times.. If I was going to be a legalism. I would be a catholic

they have the most ways to heaven, if if all their works fail. You still have purgatory..

I also believe it is why it is the most popular church. inspite of its history of rape carnage and murder

Purgatory is a travesty on the justice of God. It's a disgraceful lie that robs Jesus Christ of His glory and honor. Jesus Christ alone satisfied divine justice, once and for all, by His ALL-sufficient sacrifice. The fatal deception of purgatory blinds Roman Catholics from the glorious gospel of the grace of Christ. It is just another lie from Satan which keeps his captives from trusting in the sufficiency of Jesus Christ alone. Purgatory denies the sufficiency of Christ's atonement for sin on the cross. I can't begin to imagine all the money that has been paid out to Roman Catholic priests over the years to obtain relief from imaginary sufferings in purgatory.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

the legalist. they can not stop with the me me me

Well it’s YOU YOU YOU that needs to do this to make your salvation guaranteed!

“…brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall…” (2 Peter 1:10)