Recovery from complex childhood abuse'

[Hepzibah]

I must tell the story of the last church I was in, where the pastor did not want me there, old sick woman, no support, not filling the collection tray, and likely a burden if anyone got involved. He wanted young people in the church and played the music too loud for us oldies.

I think that is why he jammed me in, in the carpark with his Jaguar XJ6 (he likes top end cars) right up to my rear end. To put me off. I had to inch my way out and felt very stressed by it. Next thing I heard the car had gone to the garage for a service and one of the mechanics had run it into a wall or something. However it was not a write off.

Until a week or two later when it was in a collision and then was a write off. Hmm.

 

[marks]

I have moved this discussion from another thread, if there is interest in the subject apart from marks and my self. It is a very misunderstood subject and not much is known about it in the church. I have found that church can be a toxic environment for sufferers because of this ignorance and belief that once you come to Christ, you don't have any problems like this.

The problems is that it can stay buried and the person even in denial if the y had a 'normal' looking home and family. Neglect also causes cPTSD. Here is a coach that is very practical in te help she gives, herself growing up in an alcoholic family Though not a Christian she believes in God and has high morals:

@marks

I just watched the video, I'm a fan! I'll be checking out more.

Much love!

 

[PS95]

Yes I think that you are right - getting church leaders to understand is a herculean task, unless of course the Holy Spirit convicts them of sin towards the damaged brethren and that can take place in a moment. But as you say, they are more interested in other things, like attracting the young top the church.

I was spiritually abused by the leaders of the last three churches I was in. The first one was because I had become an ex-Calvinist though and was excommunicated for that, but now I think surely the pastor should have recognized he was dealing with a severely dissociated person. And so I was tossed out even when they knew I was very sick physically and had no family to support me. But that is by the by and all behind me and I have no anger towards these leaders.

Now that is interesting - I could not decide whether I should protect myself from harmful situations like going to my brothers family again this Christmas and let them abuse me or be healed and not triggered. Not sure about that one. If I am there though, it tempts them to sin? Maybe save them from that temptation. I have to work on that one

Many thanks.

I don't think they are sinning. They simply do not understand you. How can they? they didn't experience your life. What helps is for you to understand you. It's not their fault that you feel triggered by words. The trigger is in YOU, not them. Try to see that. It's not them who has this trigger problem.- they don't even understand it. The problems in you, deeply rooted in pain & fear, not love. This not blaming you! it's proper perspective.

Go back to your earliest injuries. What you will see everytime is-- no love. The person who injured you is the person who has THE problem. It truly never was ABOUT YOU. It was about that person and his/her pain. If you look further you will see that the person who injured you was injured by someone else. It's cycle of no love.

 

[Hepzibah]

I don't think they are sinning. They simply do not understand you. How can they? they didn't experience your life. What helps is for you to understand you. It's not their fault that you feel triggered by words. The trigger is in YOU, not them. Try to see that. It's not them who has a problem. The problems in you, deeply rooted in pain & fear, not love.
Go back to your earliest injuries. What you will see everytime is-- no love. The person who injured you is the person who has THE problem. It truly never was ABOUT YOU. It was about that person and his/her pain. If you look further you will see that the person who injured you was injured by someone else. It's cycle of no love.

Agreed if it is just lack of knowledge. However, when it comes to downright nastiness - yes that is sin. Making someone feel unwelcome by the lack of normal civility. For example, being told that this year there is no room at the table because to nieces are having their boyfriends for Christmas lunch so you have to go sit in the lounge with a small table to eat from, on your own. And no-one bought you a present this year even though you bought them each one. And as always we did not cater for your allergies.

This is known as scapegoating.

 

[PS95]

Agreed if it is just lack of knowledge. However, when it comes to downright nastiness - yes that is sin. Making someone feel unwelcome by the lack of normal civility. For example, being told that this year there is no room at the table because to nieces are having their boyfriends for Christmas lunch so you have to go sit in the lounge with a small table to eat from, on your own. And no-one bought you a present this year even though you bought them each one. And as always we did not cater for your allergies.

This is known as scapegoating.

Of course, that is nasty. Do they say they are Christians? -

If that is the normal way that they treat you- perhaps you should find somewhere else to go next year. Now you know the heat there, so if you choose to go again- expect similar treatment.

 

[marks]

I don't think they are sinning. They simply do not understand you. How can they? they didn't experience your life. What helps is for you to understand you. It's not their fault that you feel triggered by words. The trigger is in YOU, not them. Try to see that. It's not them who has a problem. The problems in you, deeply rooted in pain & fear, not love.

I agree to an extent here, however, there are people who are able to both spot this kind of damage in a person, and then use it for their own ends, whether 'merely' to self affirm, or to victimize them further.

There are people . . . I know this personally . . . who, once they've learned someone's triggers, to intentionally trigger them, for various reasons. To manipulate them.

Some people don't understand others, and want to, so they try to. Others might just see a difficult person, and may be off-putting to make go away something they don't understand.

Real love, particularly Christian love, seeks to comfort and heal the broken and hurting. There will be a balancing point in people, how difficult will a person need to be before we throw up our hands and turn away?

Helping someone to heal means being committed because we love them that our love and acceptance and forgiveness will not end for them, even as they are acting out.

I fully agree that the triggers are our own, and our responsibility for our actions remains our own. Have you ever witnessed a Malignant Narcissist predating on someone with untreated cPTSD? Evil in action. Shepherds of the sheep do very well to understand those over whom they shepherd, so that they can do so with wisdom. I say these things really just to say that we are the ones with the disease, yes, however, we are wise to consider how other people participate in our condition, for good and for ill.

I'd also add that sometimes abusers know exactly what they are doing to those whom they abuse, and do so for that express purpose, to knowingly inflict lifelong harm. Yes, that comes from their own reponsibility, and you can say they were hurt, or you could say they were evil, and maybe both are true. You could hardly say in such cases, "it wasn't about you", because in fact it was. Yes, there is a lot of collateral damage, but there is much intentional as well.

Some cultures even have practices built in that cause cPTSD across entire segments of the population. This is one of the tools in the devil's toolbox to destroy humanity.

Consider why the Caananites were to be completely destroyed? Their cultural practices caused this damage to all or virtually all the children, so that the entire people group had no more means of returning to normalcy.

Our culture's media, I believe, intentionally triggers people knowing that the triggered reaction helps insure repeat viewership among those who don't know better.

Much love!

 

[Hepzibah]

Have you ever witnessed a Malignant Narcissist predating on someone with untreated cPTSD? Evil in action.

Indeed. Well said,

 

[PS95]

I agree to an extent here, however, there are people who are able to both spot this kind of damage in a person, and then use it for their own ends, whether 'merely' to self affirm, or to victimize them further.

There are people . . . I know this personally . . . who, once they've learned someone's triggers, to intentionally trigger them, for various reasons. To manipulate them.

Some people don't understand others, and want to, so they try to. Others might just see a difficult person, and may be off-putting to make go away something they don't understand.

Real love, particularly Christian love, seeks to comfort and heal the broken and hurting. There will be a balancing point in people, how difficult will a person need to be before we throw up our hands and turn away?

Helping someone to heal means being committed because we love them that our love and acceptance and forgiveness will not end for them, even as they are acting out.

I fully agree that the triggers are our own, and our responsibility for our actions remains our own. Have you ever witnessed a Malignant Narcissist predating on someone with untreated cPTSD? Evil in action. Shepherds of the sheep do very well to understand those over whom they shepherd, so that they can do so with wisdom. I say these things really just to say that we are the ones with the disease, yes, however, we are wise to consider how other people participate in our condition, for good and for ill.

Much love!

It's difficult for me to discern who Hepzibah is referring to at times, for me. Those in the church? or the relatives? I would think that the relatives are nasty people from what's been said. I was raised by narccisists and still have family members who echo them. The damage is incredible, and until we learn that THEY have the problem, and not us, we can not learn to have sympathy for them.

As I've said, that's no easy task on our own. When attacked with hatred, the person spewing the hate is the one with the problem. I'm not talking about debating on a board like these, where sometimes we get annoyed. I'm speaking to people with a patteren of attacking others verbally ( and sometimes by actions) as a continuous behavior..
It may sound to you as if I am defending them. Not at all! what I'm saying is to flip it!
Try to see them as the victim instead of yourself. Crazy? no.. If you see yourself as the victim,, you will remain one. If you think deeper about it- that nasty person is in bondage of evil- a victim in the hands of evil. Seeing that person as the " victim" and speaking softly back not allowing them to ruffle you regardless of the hate being spewed can go a long way. Seeing them as the victim stuck in the cycle of needing to hurt others in order to feel better is a sick twisted thing.
Maybe I jumped a head to quickly here? I'm sorry if I did. Idk. I am just showing you some of what i learned.

 

[Hepzibah]

Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go Prov 22:24

I think that settles it. If you are able to avoid him that is. If you meet him in the street it is different.

 

[marks]

Try to see them as the victim instead of yourself. Crazy? no.. If you see yourself as the victim,, you will remain one.

Seeing them as the victim stuck in the cycle of needing to hurt others in order to feel better is a sick twisted thing.

Rather then "to feel better", I'd be more specific, "to self affirm". Among the many dynamics of abuse is that someone may be seeking to justify themself by what they can do to you.

"The way I am isn't my fault, and I can prove that to myself. If I can mess you up, then it proves that I was messed up, and I'm not responsible."

I would call that the sick and twisted thing. Recognizing it, understanding it, and correctly applying it, that is living in reality.

This is for that person their "repetition compulsion", compulsively victimizing others as a means of gaining control over their internal state. It doesn't work, and becomes the continually repeated experiment, that maybe this time I can gain control. Find some kind of release. That never happens, not until one shuts down the process.

I have found 2 major keys towards healing, the first being grounded in God's love, and the second is to live in reality.

God's love, He wounds, and He binds up. Reality, wounds hurt, and binding isn't always quick, or painless.

Much love!

 

[PS95]

I remember a few times in my life I had become so disgusted with myself, and the sin I was in, how degraded my mind was . . . I remember just holding it all up to God, PLEASE TAKE THIS AWAY! And I was able to leave it with Him. The first time, I went emotionally numb for a couple of weeks, the last time it lasted a couple of months. But at the end of the emptiness I had a kind of "reset" and was able to go in in a clean life.

The symptoms would always return, my mind would start going off the tracks, until the next time.

Doctors say that the brain damage continues to accrue throughout life, getting worse and worse, if not addressed, resulting in greater difficulties the older we get. I remember reading one doctor, who seemed to say the same as many of them, there was a quote I remember, something like,

". . . this man only came to me in his mid-50's, when this has become so entrenched, the best I can generally do for this kind of patient is to hopefully help them feel better about themself."

I think what was happening when I'd find a temporary reset was successful sublimation. Burying it deep enough to not be a problem, except, it's still there, and would reappear.

Wow! So much to try to organize so that I can express it, without getting weird!

It was early 2018 and I was in the throes of my repetition complulsion, which refers to the victim feeling compelled to repeat the abuse, or the circumstances of the abuse, or to put one's self into a "younger emotional state", that is, before it all became so bad. The idea is "this time, I'm going take control". This is why some who are abused become the abuser. They are repeating their abuse but now from the power position. No longer victim! This is why someone might marry an abusive person, to put themselves back into that place. There is information online about this, and I'm open to any questions someone may want to ask.

Anyway . . . 2018 . . . that was when God started to pull the rug out from under me. First came a crashing realization about how self-driven I'd become, no place for God, or anyone else. He let that confidence fall like a rock. Then my health took a big hit, an infection reduced me to skin and bones, no strength. By 2020 or so I was starting to recover my strength, and had become very dependant on God.

But I was still having the trouble in my mind. At least now I was at war with it, but still! So many times I failed, crushed, begging God for answers, opening my Bible to read, and reading words of how much He loves me, forgives me, He was making me fall in love with Him by His show of love for me.

And one night, I opened to Psalm 129, and read,

Psalms 129:1-4 KJV
1) A Song of degrees. Many a time have they afflicted me from my youth, may Israel now say:
2) Many a time have they afflicted me from my youth: yet they have not prevailed against me.

This was the problem!

3) The plowers plowed upon my back: they made long their furrows.

Yes, this is me! My attention as rivetted!

4) The LORD is righteous: he hath cut asunder the cords of the wicked.

And when I read "cut" I felt something fall as a mass from inside me away into the shadows. What just happened?? It's like He cut the darkness away from within me! But I'd long since become very wary of hope. I told myself, if this is real, I'll know it soon enough, and went to bed.

The next day, I seemed new. I was at peace. And I was untroubled by any fleshy thought for the next 5 weeks or so. I told my wife, It's like, maybe I'm who I would have been if all that never happened! I still am not certain how to explain what was happening, only, I realize this is the life of faith, of sanctification, of walking in the Spirit. For about 5 weeks or so that continued, but then one morning, that fleshy voice reawakened, I was was back like I had been.

Except . . . now I knew a kind of life that I wanted, and having tasted, I knew that this was real, available.

It was after this that I learned about repetition complusion, and brain structures, and like that. This knowledge that my lifetime of horror was due to a biological recipe of underdeveloped brain structures, and the resultant lack of function, and reduction of neurotransmitters, and the hyperactivity of other functions. Everything that was corrupting my life was a chemical and electrical echo in my brain from my childhood.

And as that realization sunk in, I sunk into a deep and black depression for the next 5 weeks or so, before I started to see sunlight again.

And since then it's not been a matter of, Just take this all away! It's more like, I've done this because of that . . . this is why I feel that way in that time, and, this is something that triggers me. I feel like I'm now working with the mechanics of my disorder, making true progress, real healing.

It's always difficult to choose what to share, how much, there is so much to our stories!

Much love!

Rather then "to feel better", I'd be more specific, "to self affirm". Among the many dynamics of abuse is that someone may be seeking to justify themself by what they can do to you.

"The way I am isn't my fault, and I can prove that to myself. If I can mess you up, then it proves that I was messed up, and I'm not responsible."

I would call that the sick and twisted thing. Recognizing it, understanding it, and correctly applying it, that is living in reality.

This is for that person their "repetition compulsion", compulsively victimizing others as a means of gaining control over their internal state. It doesn't work, and becomes the continually repeated experiment, that maybe this time I can gain control. Find some kind of release. That never happens, not until one shuts down the process.

I have found 2 major keys towards healing, the first being grounded in God's love, and the second is to live in reality.

God's love, He wounds, and He binds up. Reality, wounds hurt, and binding isn't always quick, or painless.

Much love!

I agree. I just also see them as fellow humans who haven't received love somewhere along the way. Misguided and lost like we all were.

 

[marks]

I am just showing you some of what i learned.

I think that's what we are here for, to compare notes. I find this all to be incredibly complex, in the various parts of the brain, and how they function differently. For instance emotional regulation is handled largely by the ventril cortex. The vetril cortex also moderates certain kinds of pain, and also, interestingly, tinnitus.

I never had a problem with tinnitus until I began to regain my emotional memory. Now I have very interesting problems with it.

One night I found myself in a triggered state, active compulsions/obsessive thoughts, and I responded NO! and shut it all down. Emptied my mind except to focus on God, and to pray. And immediately my hearing literally exploded with ringing, the normal tone, plus another tone, plus an intermittant tone, wild! And loud! My ventril cortex was moderating my tinnitus, until I yanked if from that activity to moderate my emotional state.

Interestingly, over the course of writing my last few posts on this thread, my ear ringing has dramatically increased, now with two levels, one continuous, and one like a waveform.

Much love!

 

[PS95]

Rather then "to feel better", I'd be more specific, "to self affirm". Among the many dynamics of abuse is that someone may be seeking to justify themself by what they can do to you.

"The way I am isn't my fault, and I can prove that to myself. If I can mess you up, then it proves that I was messed up, and I'm not responsible."

I would call that the sick and twisted thing. Recognizing it, understanding it, and correctly applying it, that is living in reality.

This is for that person their "repetition compulsion", compulsively victimizing others as a means of gaining control over their internal state. It doesn't work, and becomes the continually repeated experiment, that maybe this time I can gain control. Find some kind of release. That never happens, not until one shuts down the process.

I have found 2 major keys towards healing, the first being grounded in God's love, and the second is to live in reality.

God's love, He wounds, and He binds up. Reality, wounds hurt, and binding isn't always quick, or painless.

Much love!

to add to my post above. I'm not saying to purposefully put yourslef around them if it triggers you. I'm saying to view them in this way changes things.

 

[marks]

I agree. I just also see them as fellow humans who haven't received love somewhere along the way. Misguided and lost like we all were.

Absolutely! These are sinners for whom Christ died.

After my mother had died, I learned that she had been struck by a car when she was 5, and had lain in a coma for 2 days. Her younger sister said she was odd after that. I learned her mother would lock her in a dark closet for up to 6 or 8 hours during the day. Who knows what else happened!

Much love!

 

[PS95]

Absolutely! These are sinners for whom Christ died.

After my mother had died, I learned that she had been struck by a car when she was 5, and had lain in a coma for 2 days. Her younger sister said she was odd after that. I learned her mother would lock her in a dark closet for up to 6 or 8 hours during the day. Who knows what else happened!

Much love!

horrible. hate births hate. without Christ it doesnt heal. it manifests.. was your mom narcissistic?

my mom had an alcoholic father.

 

[marks]

to add to my post above. I'm not saying to purposefully put yourslef around them if it triggers you. I'm saying to view them in this way changes things.

Something else important to healing, real forgiveness.

With my mother, that didn't come until after she died. And whether waking or sleeping I don't know, only that I saw the fluffy whiteness of clouds surrounding my mother shoulders up. She wore a white robe, she turned and looked at me, she was young, beautify, radient, she said, "Mark, it's So Wonderful!!" and that was all, but it was enough. I had already known with certainty she was redeemed, and so I knew what this brief vision, or dream, portrayed was true. She was all better now! And my bitterness was gone, just like that!

Much love!

 

[TLHKAJ]

I understand what you were asking of me now. Without putting persoanl details of mine or others online- I can give an overview. Previously,I was like this-- Symptoms of Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. <--that was me.

Since, I have gotten closer to the Lord. Those things are ALL GONE. I did not expect that outcome, nor did I specifically ask. I did pray to be "restored" several times. There were times when I was given what I would call " visions" of something that triggered me. I had many triggers. The Lord was with me this time though, and showed me how to release from it. Scripture would come to mind- (not of me, but HS) and it would be gone.
I am having a hard time explaining. It's very personal. It involved pain- but seems I had to go through it to learn how to be released.
There were several other ways He accomplished releases, but all of them took me to the same place.. HIM.
I'm sorry if I can't make this clear for you.
He made me new. My past is dead and buried and does not haunt me. It has NO control over me. I can actually look at my past now, and smile knowing that is how I got where I am now.
..and yes, In the end, I was able to forgive my enemies.<--- ( without going into detail abt why) and I found that also was to free myself. But i would never have gotten to forgiveness if I was not brougth through those painful triggers.
As to physical damage in the brain- all that I know is that I'm free!!

This is the very same process God has taken me through. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free. Mind renewal. And for many of us, this is multilayered, and God will go deeper and deeper to get at all the facets of an issue. When we bring our brokenness to God, and stay on His potter's wheel, He is faithful and will complete the work He has begun in us.

We all have different degrees of trauma and wounding ....even shattering. And God is gracious to take us through our very individual processes to healing, wholeness, and freedom.

The process isn't fun a lot of the time. And we are all individuals. As long as we are in His hands, we are exactly where we need to be. No guilt, no shame @Hepzibah. Our healing processes and the length of time of our processes are as individual and unique as we are. But as believers, the commonality is ... Jesus.

 

[marks]

So instead of getting miraculous healing, I can now help others to regain their health because of the studying I had to do if they are not in the position perhaps through trauma themselves, to seek diving healing. Well that is of course if God still heals that way.

When I was freed from my fleshiness, or whatever I should call it I don't really know, but there came the time when I realized that though my problems seemed over, that there was nothing I could do for others. "God freed me, I hope He will do the same for you." I had friends who had similar struggles. What could I give to them?

I prayed that God would give me the means to share this. It was a few days later that season ended, but what I learned was that by faith in walking in the Spirit, the flesh could be fully transcended. Due to my inconsistency of faith, I find myself not walking in the Spirit, and during such times, the physical, neurological healing is manifest, and and I see how far He has brought me.

I didn't expect that would be my answer to my prayer, but there it is, and now I know God both lifts us up, and leads us up. By faith we can walk in the Spirit.

Much love!

 

[marks]

horrible. hate births hate. without Christ it doesnt heal. it manifests.. was your mom narcissistic?

my mom had an alcoholic father.

I'm thinking narcissist/major depressive. My father was an alcoholic, absent from age 2, except when I lived with him in my mid teens for a year and a half.

He was friends with the proprietors for a restaurant/bar, and my sister and I, we had both moved in with him, quickly discovered our favorite drink was the Vodka Gimlet, as he'd drop us at the bar, to go spend time with his friends in a booth.

Then it was back to mom's.

Much love!

 

[Hepzibah]

There were two things that kept me from seeing my family as it was. First, there was no alcohol, drugs, gambling, illegal actions whatsoever, and at a distance, they looked like hard working law abiding people with a well kept home, home cooking, clean and decently dressed children. My father often worked seven days a week at a steel works, my mother on an evening in a factory. I was left to take care of my two siblings, after the age of 13 though, 3 or 4 evenings a week though as he liked ballroom dancing, and probably the women.

I spoilt the perfect family image though, having been given the 'teething powders' that contained 50% mercury and was severely ill in hospital. It was called Pink Disease. Many babies died till it was taken off the market. The infants were known to scream a lot and not sleep. I believe that I had CFS/ME from that time and was always ill as a child, suffering severe headaches and fatigue.

My parents probably did not know about the mercury and I quickly gained the reputation as a difficult child and a hypochondriac. They never accepted my illness. So the family got to blame me for everything and take out their everyday annoyances on me as I became the whipping boy. My mother had strong narcissistic traits and perhaps something else, and she was always hostile towards me, sometimes chasing me with a carving knife.

I later attended Celebrate Recovery and one of the steps like in AA, was to forgive. I had already forgiven them, but it was too soon as I had not worked out at that point the extent of abuse in my childhood and how it had affected me. How can you forgive if you do not know what you are forgiving?

I believe that I remained in the state of dissociation because of that. I think it is only then that you can look upon your tormentors with pity, but that does not mean that you must remain in their territory as that Bible verse shows.

Communicating with people who deny your reality (illness) with ongoing abuse, is something that each person must decide, with prayer of course.