Reasons Jews Reject Jesus

[Eliyahu613]

The Talmud is more authoritative than the Torah

Bs"d

Mabye with you, but not with me. As I explained above, the Talmud is authoritative when it comes to explaining the law.

For the rest it is not taken literal.

 

[Eliyahu613]

From the Septuagint
Isa 53:1 O Lord, who has believed our report? and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Isa 53:2 We brought a report as of a child before him; he is as a root in a thirsty land: he has no form nor comeliness; and we saw him, but he had no form nor beauty.
Isa 53:3 But his form was ignoble, and inferior to that of the children of men; he was a man in suffering, and acquainted with the bearing of sickness, for his face is turned from us: he was dishonoured, and not esteemed.
Isa 53:4 He bears our sins, and is pained for us: yet we accounted him to be in trouble, and in suffering, and in affliction.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded on account of our sins, and was bruised because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and by his bruises we were healed.
Isa 53:6 All we as sheep have gone astray; every one has gone astray in his way; and the Lord gave him up for our sins.
Isa 53:7 And he, because of his affliction, opens not his mouth: he was led as a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before the shearer is dumb, so he opens not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken away from the earth: because of the iniquities of my people he was led to death.
Isa 53:9 And I will give the wicked for his burial, and the rich for his death; for he practised no iniquity, nor craft with his mouth.
Isa 53:10 The Lord also is pleased to purge him from his stroke. If ye can give an offering for sin, your soul shall see a long-lived seed:
Isa 53:11 the Lord also is pleased to take away from the travail of his soul, to shew him light, and to form him with understanding; to justify the just one who serves many well; and he shall bear their sins.
Isa 53:12 Therefore he shall inherit many, and he shall divide the spoils of the mighty; because his soul was delivered to death: and he was numbered among the transgressors; and he bore the sins of many, and was delivered because of their iniquities.

See your problem?--From the Septuagint?

Heck, you think I am ignorant? Who wrote the Septuagint?

Bs"d

I'm not saying you are ignorant, but your knowledge is lacking in some subjects, the LXX being one of them.

Who wrote the LXX? Well, the first five books are translated by Jews, all the rest; that is anybody's guess.

The Hebrew Torah is transmitted by the Jews in an extreme careful way:

There are very many rules that apply to the copying process of Torah scrolls: They may only be written on parchment of kosher animals, which must be sewn together with tendons of kosher animals. It may only be written by a Jew, dressed in a Jewish garment, in a state of ritual purity, which means that, amongst other things, he must wash himself in a ritual bath. Even his state of mind is subjected to certain rulings. The whole manuscript must be ruled before it is written upon, when three words are written without ruling, the whole manuscript is disqualified and must be buried. The ink may only be black, prepared according to an ancient recipe. The Torah scroll may only be copied from another authentic scroll, and absolutely no deviation is allowed. Absolutely no words may be written without first looking to the example. The length of each column must be between 48 and 60 rules, and the width must be 30 letters. Between the letters must be a space as wide as a hair, between the paragraphs a space of nine letters, between the books a space of three rules. Calculations have been made how many letters there are in the whole Torah, which letter is the middle, how many letters there are in every book of the Torah, how many times certain words and even letters appear in the text. And there are many, many more rules for copying Torah scrolls that are still in effect, up to this day. No other religion had such an extremely precise way of copying their holy texts. This shows the enormous respect that the Jewish people have for the sacred text, and this is the reason that the text is handed down through the millennia with an extreme grade of accuracy.

Every expert, and everybody knowledgeable in the field of Biblical texts, agrees upon the fact that the Old Testament, even though much older than the New Testament, is handed down much more accurate than the New Testament.


However, the LXX was not considered very important by the Jews, and was never under the protection of the Jews. The LXX is transmitted by Gentiles, and they say this about it:

Here are a few excerpts from the online Catholic Encyclopedia, here to be found:
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Home from the entry "Septuagint" which show the reliability of the LXX:

The Christians had recourse to it constantly in their controversies with the Jews, who soon recognized its imperfections, and finally rejected it in favour of the Hebrew text or of more literal translations (Aquila, Theodotion).
.....................
On account of its diffusion alone the hellenizing Jews and early Christians, copies of the Septuagint were multiplied; and as might be expected, many changes, deliberate as well as involuntary, crept in.
...............
The Septuagint Version, while giving exactly as to the form and substance the true sense of the Sacred Books, differs nevertheless considerably from our present Hebrew text.
...................
Again, we must not think that we have at present the Greek text exactly as it was written by the translators; the frequent transcriptions during the early centuries, as well as the corrections and editions of Origen, Lucian, and Hesychius impaired the purity of the text: voluntarily or involuntarily the copyists allowed many textual corruptions, transpositions, additions, and omissions to creep into the primitive text of the Septuagint.

So the LXX is not an argument.

 

[Eliyahu613]

While it is true that modern-day no longer regard Isaiah 53 as Messianic, the ancient authorities did!

Bs"d

I have given you proof for ancient rabbis and the Talmud saying that the suffering servant is Israel.

It seems you have overlooked these, so I'll give them again:

In the Midrash Rabba on Numbers it is clearly written that the suffering servant is Israel.

In the Talmud, finished around the year 500, in tractate Brachot 5A, it is written at least three times that the suffering servant is Israel.

The targum Jonathan ben Uzziel from the first century says in his comment on Isaiah 53 multiple times that the servant is Israel.

And there is of course the Christian father of the church, Origen, born in the year 185, who says that in a debate with wise Jews, they told him that the servant in Isaiah 53 is the nation Israel.

He says that in his book "Contra Celsus". That book can be found online here:

CHURCH FATHERS: Contra Celsum (Origen)

Look in book 1, the end of chapter 54, and the beginning of 55, There Origen writes:

"But He was wounded for our sins, and bruised for our iniquities. The chastisement of our peace was upon Him; by His stripes we were healed. We all, like sheep, wandered from the way. A man wandered in his way, and the Lord delivered Him on account of our sins; and He, because of His evil treatment, opens not His mouth. As a sheep was He led to slaughter; and as a lamb before her shearer is dumb, so He opens not His mouth. In His humiliation His judgment was taken away. And who shall describe His generation? because His life is taken away from the earth; because of the iniquities of My people was He led unto death." Now I remember that, on one occasion, at a disputation held with certain Jews, who were reckoned wise men, I quoted these prophecies; to which my Jewish opponent replied, that these predictions bore reference to the whole people, regarded as one individual, and as being in a state of dispersion and suffering, in order that many proselytes might be gained, on account of the dispersion of the Jews among numerous heathen nations."


This is very clear, Origen, debating Jews, is told by these Jews who are considered wise men, that Isaiah 53 is about Israel.

So not the messiah, but ISRAEL.

In the very beginning of Christianity.

Isaiah 53:1-3 Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; and when we [Gentiles] see Him [Israel], there is no beauty that we [Gentiles] should desire Him [Israel]. He [Israel] is despised and rejected by [Gentile] men, a Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we [Gentiles] hid, as it were, our faces from Him [Israel]; He was despised, and we [Gentiles] did not esteem Him.

You say that when Isaiah speaks about "we", he speaks about the Gentiles. But when he says "we", he includes himself.

When Isaiah says "we", he doesn't speak about the Gentiles, he speaks about the Jewish people.

So what we get then, is that the servant, (the Jewish people) is being punished for "our" (the Jewish people's) sin.

And that is a very normal concept, that the Jewish people are being punished for the sins of the Jewish people. That we see happening all through the Tanach.

The Jewish people or God being punished for the sins of the Gentiles is a concept that is nowhere to be found in the Tanach.

That just doesn't exist.

 

[Johann]

The Jewish people or God being punished for the sins of the Gentiles is a concept that is nowhere to be found in the Tanach.

That just doesn't exist.

You are not reading my posts,. Speed reading--The name Septuagint (from the Latin septuaginta, “70”) was derived later from the legend that there were 72 translators, 6 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, who worked independently to translate the whole and ultimately produced identical versions.
Anyway, as I have said--circular reasoning-especially since you put the blame on "Christianity" on altering the Septuagint.
I sense you are still learning Orthodox Judaism-tell me-have you been baptized and circumcised?
Since there are roughly 10 branches of Judaism, which one have you embraced?
Do you have a rabbi assigned to you?

I noticed there are many points you haven't answer me, circular reasoning-now that I know you, and the prominent Modern Day rabbi's are in a all out attack to "putting the blame on Christianity-Goyim"

Last question-what was your belief BEFORE you converted to Judaism?

 

[Eliyahu613]

You are not reading my posts,. Speed reading--The name Septuagint (from the Latin septuaginta, “70”) was derived later from the legend that there were 72 translators, 6 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, who worked independently to translate the whole and ultimately produced identical versions.
Anyway, as I have said--circular reasoning-especially since you put the blame on "Christianity" on altering the Septuagint.

Bs"d

I'm not putting the blame for messing up the LXX on Christianity, as you can see in my previous post; they take the blame upon themselves.

I sense you are still learning Orthodox Judaism-tell me-have you been baptized and circumcised?

Yes.

Since there are roughly 10 branches of Judaism, which one have you embraced?

I'm in mainstream charedi Judaism. That is about the most strict branch there is. All black hats and black suits.

Do you have a rabbi assigned to you?

No. But when I did my conversion here in Israel I had one rabbi I learned with all day and he went many times with me to the rabbinical court of the state of Israel, which in the end converted me.

I noticed there are many points you haven't answer me, circular reasoning-now that I know you, and the prominent Modern Day rabbi's are in a all out attack to "putting the blame on Christianity-Goyim"

Last question-what was your belief BEFORE you converted to Judaism?

I grew up as a 7th day adventist.

 

[Johann]

I grew up as a 7th day adventist.

Thank you for your honesty

Haredim (Charedim), or Ultra-Orthodox Jews | My Jewish Learning

You've seen Haredim black hats and long dresses--but who are the people underneath?

www.myjewishlearning.com

This the one?

 

[MatthewG]

Envy and jealousy


Matthew 27
For he knew it was out of self-interest that they had handed Jesus over to him.

 

[Eliyahu613]

Thank you for your honesty

Haredim (Charedim), or Ultra-Orthodox Jews | My Jewish Learning

You've seen Haredim black hats and long dresses--but who are the people underneath?

www.myjewishlearning.com

This the one?

Bs"d

Close, but I think these are more chassidic. But the general idea is good.

You don't see many fur hats where I live, but I'm thinking about getting one. But I like to be a bit different, so I'm thinking about this model:

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/AiNU7EHB5CaVut1OoFTlUoFQw7D.jpg

That'll

Thank you for your honesty

Haredim (Charedim), or Ultra-Orthodox Jews | My Jewish Learning

You've seen Haredim black hats and long dresses--but who are the people underneath?

www.myjewishlearning.com

This the one?

Bs"d

Looks like it, but these look more chassidic. But it's close.

 

[Eliyahu613]

Bs"d

Israel as the servant of God.

"Behold, my servant shall prosper, he shall be exalted and lifted up, and shall be very high."

>> As the prophets announce, Israel will be exalted, see Isaiah 60, 61, and 62.

"As many were astonished at him -- his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his form beyond that of the sons of men "

>> The servant Israel was no longer a nation when they were several times dispersed over the whole earth. People were astonished about what happened to the Jews; persecutions, crusaders who wiped out complete Jewish communities before they took off to the holy land, including women and children. There was the Christian inquisition, who had the horrible habit of torturing Jews to death, there was the holocaust in which Christian Europe murdered six million civilians, amongst them 1,500,000 children, there was plenty of reason to be upset about what befell the Jews.

"so shall he startle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him; for that which has not been told them they shall see, and that which they have not heard they shall understand."

>> The world will be very surprised when the Jews, after almost 2000 years of exile, will come back to the holy land, and against all odds, will become very prominent amongst the nations.

"Who has believed what we have heard? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground;

>> With 70 souls Jacob moved to Egypt, and there, in the arid ground, despite all the hardships imposed upon the Jews, Israel became a great people.


"he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him."

>> But it was a slave people, in a horrible way suppressed by the Egyptians, who also committed genocide on the Jewish boys.

"He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not."

>> In Egypt, but also during the other exiles, Israel was acquainted with disasters: deportations, torture, killings. Under those conditions nobody was very happy to be a Jew. The people of Israel was despised, even by the Jews themselves who had to endure all these disasters. In those circumstances, being a Jew was not something to be happy about.

"Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted."

>> Because Israel strayed away from Gods ways, it incurred the punishment connected to those sins, just like we see throughout the whole history of Israel. They correctly assumed that Israel was smitten and afflicted by God.

"He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, and with his stripes we are healed."

>> Israel was severely punished for the sins of Israel, and through the punishment acquired the cure, the total remission of sins.

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all."


>> Israel strayed away from the law of God, and God brought the punishment for those sins upon Israel.

"He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth."

Psalm 44: "But for Your sake we are killed all day long; We are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
A good example of that is the holocaust, in which the Jews went like sheep to the slaughter.

"By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living,"

>> When Israel was overrun by their enemies and led into exile, it was dead as a nation. The land of Israel didn't exist anymore.

"stricken for the transgression of my people".

>> Israel stricken for the sins of Israel.

"And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth."


>> Zephaniah 3:13 "The remnant of Israel will do no wrong And tell no lies, Nor will a deceitful tongue be found in their mouths;"
Israel was conquered by and led in exile to the nations who were then economically and military on top of the world: "With a rich man in his death".
The reason for the punishment was idolatry, and not violence or deceit.

"Yet it was the will of the LORD to bruise him; he has put him to grief;"

>> God punished Israel.

"when you make him an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand;"

>> When Israel repents, and accepts the punishment from God, Israel will live again, and God's plan with Israel shall proceed.

"he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;"

>> Because Israel has been punished for it's sins, "it's travail", their sins are abolished, and God's plan for Israel will play itself out, and Israel shall see it "until satisfaction".

"by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities."

>> Israel shall through it's knowledge of God and his laws, knowledge not revealed to any other nation, turn many Israelites to a righteous path: "Fear God and observe his commandments". But when Israel strays, it will receive the punishment from God.

"Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

Israel will be lifted up, because it repented from it's sins, and was severely punished for it's sins. It was (correctly) numbered with the transgressors, it bore the sins of many, and the righteous amongst them prayed for the sinners.

 

[Eliyahu613]

Bs"d

Why is Isaiah 53 not read in the synagogue?

Christians claim that the Jews skip the reading of Isaiah 53 in the synagogue, because of its christological implications.

Let me tell you something about the reading of the prophets in the synagogue.

The readings in the synagogue, are about the TORAH. That is what Judaism is all about, God and His law.


Therefore the TORAH, the first five books of Mozes which contain the laws, are being read in the synagogue. They are divided in parts, so that every week a portion is read, and in one year we go through the whole Torah, and then start again.

That is the essence of the synagogue service.


But, thousands of years ago, many years before JC, the Jews were under occupation of the Greeks, and they forbade the Jews to read from the Torah. So therefore, the Jews started to read from the rest of the Tanach, instead of the Torah.

Parts of the prophets or writings were then selected which bore resemblance to the weekly Torah portion in which place it was read.

When the yoke of the Greeks was removed from the Jewish people, they started to read the Torah again, but they continued to read also the part of the prophets or writings which used to be substituted for the Torah during the Greek oppression.

That part of the prophets being read was about the size of one chapter, and it followed the Torah reading tradition, and therefore it was repeated every year.

So since a year has 52 weeks, therefore about 52 chapters of the prophets were read over the year. If the readings would have been only from Isaiah, then already there would not have been enough weeks to make it to Isaiah 53. But the readings are not only from Isaiah, but also from, amongst others: Joshua, Jonah, Samuel, Jeremiah, Kings, Ezekiel, Habakuk, Zechariah, Malachi, and others. Therefore, from the prophet Isaiah, only a very small minority is read in the synagogue, and Isaiah 53 is just not one those.


So there is no such a thing as "The Jews skipping over Isaiah 53", because then the vast majority of Isaiah would be skipped.

 

[Johann]

You don't see many fur hats where I live, but I'm thinking about getting one. But I like to be a bit different, so I'm thinking about this model:
https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/AiNU7EHB5CaVut1OoFTlUoFQw7D.jpg

Goodness!--It looks like the Norse=Vikings are upon us!
Lol! Guess there is no way out-once you're in Judaism?
Are you Ultra-Orthodox?
Like I've said-I know more about Judaism than any here

Bs"d

Israel as the servant of God.

"Behold, my servant shall prosper, he shall be exalted and lifted up, and shall be very high."

>> As the prophets announce, Israel will be exalted, see Isaiah 60, 61, and 62.

"As many were astonished at him -- his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his form beyond that of the sons of men "

>> The servant Israel was no longer a nation when they were several times dispersed over the whole earth. People were astonished about what happened to the Jews; persecutions, crusaders who wiped out complete Jewish communities before they took off to the holy land, including women and children. There was the Christian inquisition, who had the horrible habit of torturing Jews to death, there was the holocaust in which Christian Europe murdered six million civilians, amongst them 1,500,000 children, there was plenty of reason to be upset about what befell the Jews.

"so shall he startle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him; for that which has not been told them they shall see, and that which they have not heard they shall understand."

>> The world will be very surprised when the Jews, after almost 2000 years of exile, will come back to the holy land, and against all odds, will become very prominent amongst the nations.

"Who has believed what we have heard? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground;

>> With 70 souls Jacob moved to Egypt, and there, in the arid ground, despite all the hardships imposed upon the Jews, Israel became a great people.


"he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him."

>> But it was a slave people, in a horrible way suppressed by the Egyptians, who also committed genocide on the Jewish boys.

"He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not."

>> In Egypt, but also during the other exiles, Israel was acquainted with disasters: deportations, torture, killings. Under those conditions nobody was very happy to be a Jew. The people of Israel was despised, even by the Jews themselves who had to endure all these disasters. In those circumstances, being a Jew was not something to be happy about.

"Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted."

>> Because Israel strayed away from Gods ways, it incurred the punishment connected to those sins, just like we see throughout the whole history of Israel. They correctly assumed that Israel was smitten and afflicted by God.

"He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, and with his stripes we are healed."

>> Israel was severely punished for the sins of Israel, and through the punishment acquired the cure, the total remission of sins.

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all."


>> Israel strayed away from the law of God, and God brought the punishment for those sins upon Israel.

"He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth."

Psalm 44: "But for Your sake we are killed all day long; We are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
A good example of that is the holocaust, in which the Jews went like sheep to the slaughter.

"By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living,"

>> When Israel was overrun by their enemies and led into exile, it was dead as a nation. The land of Israel didn't exist anymore.

"stricken for the transgression of my people".

>> Israel stricken for the sins of Israel.

"And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth."


>> Zephaniah 3:13 "The remnant of Israel will do no wrong And tell no lies, Nor will a deceitful tongue be found in their mouths;"
Israel was conquered by and led in exile to the nations who were then economically and military on top of the world: "With a rich man in his death".
The reason for the punishment was idolatry, and not violence or deceit.

"Yet it was the will of the LORD to bruise him; he has put him to grief;"

>> God punished Israel.

"when you make him an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand;"

>> When Israel repents, and accepts the punishment from God, Israel will live again, and God's plan with Israel shall proceed.

"he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;"

>> Because Israel has been punished for it's sins, "it's travail", their sins are abolished, and God's plan for Israel will play itself out, and Israel shall see it "until satisfaction".

"by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities."

>> Israel shall through it's knowledge of God and his laws, knowledge not revealed to any other nation, turn many Israelites to a righteous path: "Fear God and observe his commandments". But when Israel strays, it will receive the punishment from God.

"Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

Israel will be lifted up, because it repented from it's sins, and was severely punished for it's sins. It was (correctly) numbered with the transgressors, it bore the sins of many, and the righteous amongst them prayed for the sinners.

Give this a listen.

How a Orthodox Jewess changed her mind on Asham, plural deaths-intensified-do you know Hebrew?

Isaiah 52:13-53:12 in Jewish Tradition

In this post, I will be citing references from Jewish sources for the specific purpose of providing documentation that the Messianic interpretation of Isaiah 52:13-53:12 is anchored in early Jewish…

answeringislamblog.wordpress.com

1Who would have believed our report, and to whom was the arm of the Lord revealed? אמִ֥י הֶֽאֱמִ֖ין לִשְׁמֻֽעָתֵ֑נוּ וּזְר֥וֹעַ יְהֹוָ֖ה עַל־מִ֥י נִגְלָֽתָה:

2And he came up like a sapling before it, and like a root from dry ground, he had neither form nor comeliness; and we saw him that he had no appearance. Now shall we desire him? בוַיַּ֨עַל כַּיּוֹנֵ֜ק לְפָנָ֗יו וְכַשֹּׁ֙רֶשׁ֙ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צִיָּ֔ה לֹא־תֹ֥אַר ל֖וֹ וְלֹ֣א הָדָ֑ר וְנִרְאֵ֥הוּ וְלֹֽא־מַרְאֶ֖ה וְנֶֽחְמְדֵֽהוּ:

3Despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness, and as one who hides his face from us, despised and we held him of no account. גנִבְזֶה֙ וַֽחֲדַ֣ל אִישִׁ֔ים אִ֥ישׁ מַכְאֹב֖וֹת וִיד֣וּעַ חֹ֑לִי וּכְמַסְתֵּ֚ר פָּנִים֙ מִמֶּ֔נּוּ נִבְזֶ֖ה וְלֹ֥א חֲשַׁבְנֻֽהוּ:

4Indeed, he bore our illnesses, and our pains-he carried them, yet we accounted him as plagued, smitten by God and oppressed. דאָכֵ֚ן חֳלָיֵ֙נוּ֙ ה֣וּא נָשָׂ֔א וּמַכְאֹבֵ֖ינוּ סְבָלָ֑ם וַֽאֲנַ֣חְנוּ חֲשַׁבְנֻ֔הוּ נָג֛וּעַ מֻכֵּ֥ה אֱלֹהִ֖ים וּמְעֻנֶּֽה:

5But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were healed. הוְהוּא֙ מְחֹלָ֣ל מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ מְדֻכָּ֖א מֵֽעֲוֹֽנוֹתֵ֑ינוּ מוּסַ֚ר שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ עָלָ֔יו וּבַֽחֲבֻֽרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ:

6We all went astray like sheep, we have turned, each one on his way, and the Lord accepted his prayers for the iniquity of all of us. וכֻּלָּ֙נוּ֙ כַּצֹּ֣אן תָּעִ֔ינוּ אִ֥ישׁ לְדַרְכּ֖וֹ פָּנִ֑ינוּ וַֽיהֹוָה֙ הִפְגִּ֣יעַ בּ֔וֹ אֵ֖ת עֲו‍ֹ֥ן כֻּלָּֽנוּ:

7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he would not open his mouth; like a lamb to the slaughter he would be brought, and like a ewe that is mute before her shearers, and he would not open his mouth. זנִגַּ֨שׂ וְה֣וּא נַֽעֲנֶה֘ וְלֹ֣א יִפְתַּח־פִּיו֒ כַּשֶּׂה֙ לַטֶּ֣בַח יוּבָ֔ל וּכְרָחֵ֕ל לִפְנֵ֥י גֹֽזְזֶ֖יהָ נֶֽאֱלָ֑מָה וְלֹ֥א יִפְתַּ֖ח פִּֽיו:

8From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken, and his generation who shall tell? For he was cut off from the land of the living; because of the transgression of my people, a plague befell them. חמֵעֹ֚צֶר וּמִמִּשְׁפָּט֙ לֻקָּ֔ח וְאֶת־דּוֹר֖וֹ מִ֣י יְשׂוֹחֵ֑חַ כִּ֚י נִגְזַר֙ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ חַיִּ֔ים מִפֶּ֥שַׁע עַמִּ֖י נֶ֥גַע לָֽמוֹ:

I assume you know Hebrew? Continue--

 

[Johann]

Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? And to whom is the Zero'a Hashem [Yeshayah 52:10] revealed?

Isa 52:10 Hashem hath made bare His zero'a kedoshah [see Yeshayah 53:1] in the eyes of Kol HaGoyim; and all the ends of ha'aretz shall see the Yeshuat Eloheinu.

Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a Shoresh (Root, Shoresh Yishai, Moshiach, Yeshayah 11:10, Sanhedrin93b) out of a dry ground; he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire [Chaggai 2:7] him.


Isa 53:3 He is despised and chadal ishim (rejected by men); a man of sorrows, and acquainted with suffering; and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our sufferings, and nasah (carried [Vayikra 16:22; Yeshayah 53:12)] our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, [i.e., like a leper is stricken] smitten of G-d, and afflicted [see verse 8 below].

Isa 53:5 But he was pierced [Yeshayah 51:9; Zecharyah 12:10 Sukkah 52a, Tehillim 22:17 Targum Hashivim] for our transgressions, he was bruised mei'avonoteinu (for our iniquities); the musar (chastisement) (that brought us shalom [Yeshayah 54:10] was upon him [Moshiach]; and at the cost of his (Moshiach's) chaburah (stripes, lacerations) we are healed.

--now we turn from Singular to Plural

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own derech (way; see Prov 16:25); and Hashem hath laid on him [Moshiach] the avon (iniquity, the guilt that separates from G-d) of us all.

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a seh (lamb; see Shemot 12:3) to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who of his generation declared? For he was cut off [ Dan_9:26 ; Lev_17:10 ] out of Eretz Chayyim [this refers to the mot of Moshiach Ben Dovid, see Isa_53:12 ] mipesha ami (for the transgression of my people [Yisroel]) -nega (plague cf Psa_91:10 ) lamo ([fell] on him [i.e., Moshiach; in light of Psa_11:7 and Job_22:2 we are warranted in saying the suffix is a singular, "him," not "them". Cf Gen_9:26-27 ; Deu_33:2 ; Isa_44:15 ; also compare 1Ch_21:17 ]).

Isa 53:9 And he made his kever (grave) with the resha'im, and with the oisher (rich man; see Mt 27:57-60) bemotayv (in his deaths, intensive plural should be translated singular, death); because he had done no chamas (violence), neither was any mirmah (deceit) in his mouth. T.N. We stray as sheep; we return in Moshiach as children (zera); the Techiyas HaMoshiach (Resurrection of Moshiach) predicted in v.
10 [Dead Sea Scrolls Isaiah Scroll says Moshiach "will see the light [of life];" see also the Targum HaShivim]

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased Hashem to bruise him; He hath put him to suffering; when Thou shalt make his nefesh an asham offering for sin, he (Moshiach) shall see zera [see Psalm 16 and Yn 1:12 OJBC], He shall prolong his yamim (days) and the chefetz Hashem (pleasure, will of Hashem) shall prosper in his [Moshiach's] hand.

Isa 53:11 He [Hashem] shall see of the travail of his [Moshiach's] nefesh, and shall be satisfied; by knowledge of him [Moshiach] shall Tzadik Avdi ["My Righteous Servant," Moshiach, Zecharyah 3:8, Yirmeyah 23:5; Zecharyah 6:11-12, Ezra 3:8 Yehoshua, Yeshua shmo] justify many (Ro 5:1); for he [Moshiach] shall bear their avon (iniquities).

Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his nefesh unto mavet (death); and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he nasah (Lv 16:22, carried) (like the Yom Kippur scapegoat) the sin of many, and made intercession [did the work of a mafgi'a, intercessor] for the transgressors [see Lk 23:34 OJBC].

Quite the opposite to what your rabbis are saying--

PRE-CHRISTIAN EXEGESIS OF ISAIAH 52:13-53:12

With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) in 1947, we have now found what many believe is the oldest extant interpretation of Isaiah 52:13-53:12. This is due to some of the fragments that we…

answeringislamblog.wordpress.com

More Proof that Isaiah 52:13-53:12 Cannot Be National Israel

In this short post I will provide further evidence that national Israel cannot be the suffering Servant who suffers for the sins of the world and is exalted to divine status. According to the proph…

answeringislamblog.wordpress.com

 

[Johann]

ISAIAH 53 IS NOT ABOUT NATIONAL ISRAEL

There are certain Muslim polemicists and anti-Christian rabbis such as Tovia Singer who deny that Isaiah 52:13-53:12 is a prophecy of the vicarious suffering and substitutionary death of the Messiah, particularly Jesus. Some argue that this refers to the national Israel suffering for the sins of the nations in order to bring healing and restoration to the world.

Noted Messianic Jewish scholar and apologist Dr. Michael L. Brown explains why this interpretation is actually desperate and contrived:

THE IDENTITY OF THE SERVANT

Christian interpreters have identified four Servant songs in Isa 40-55, based on what appears to be the identity of the Servant in 42:1-4 (some include 5-7); 49:1-6 (some include 7-11); 50:4-10; and 52:13-53:12. While this is attractive, given the apparent thematic harmony of these four passages, it is best to examine every reference to the word servant (Hebrew ‘ebed) in chaps. 40-55 before isolating any of the texts from their larger context. This will bring 52:13-53:12 into clearer focus.

The noun ‘ebed (in the singular) appears a total of 17 times in Isa 40-51, sometimes with reference to the nation of Israel as a whole (41:8-9; 42:19 [2x]; 43:10; 44:21 [2x]; 45:4; 48:20), and sometimes with reference to a righteous individual within the nation (49:1-2, 4-7; 50:10). In several verses, it is not clear whether an individual or the nation (or, perhaps the righteous remnant within the nation) is referred to, although a good case can be made for the individual interpretation (42:1; 44:1-2).

The noun occurs again in 52:13 and 53:11, with an individual interpretation appearing to be the most likely, which would mean that the references to the servant as a people actually end with Isa 48:20, while the references to the servant as an individual come to the clearest focus beginning with Isa 49 and continuing through the end of chap. 53.

Accordingly, in chaps. 40-48, “Israel” occurs 34x and “Jacob” 19x, whereas in chaps. 49-53, “Israel” occurs 6x (5 in chap. 49) and “Jacob” 3x (all in chap. 49). Thus, by the time Isa 52:13 is reached, the spotlight is on a person, not a people, although the person is certainly connected to his people. (“Servant” in the singular does not occur again in Isaiah after 53:11; in the plural, see 54:17; 56:6; 63:17; 65:9, 13 [3x], 14-15; 66:14.)

Continue--

 

[Johann]

Rabbinic exegesis also recognizes an individual in several passages; cf. e.g., Targum to 42:1; 52:13 (the Messiah; this is expressed even more clearly in Midrash Tanchuma to 52:13; see below); Rashi and Ibn Ezra to 49:1 (the prophet); Radak to 42:1 (the Messiah), 49:1 and 50:10 (the prophet); Abravanel to 42:1 (the Messiah), 49:1 and 50:10 (the prophet); note also that Rashi interprets 50:10 with reference to the prophets.

It is therefore inaccurate to state that traditional Jewish exegesis always recognizes Israel as the servant of the Lord in Isa 40-55, since an individual servant (either the Messiah or the prophet) is identified by the rabbis in several passages outside of Isa 53. Significantly, in 49:1-6, the Servant, who is clearly an individual, is called “Israel” in v. 3 but has the mission of restoring Jacob and regathering Israel in vv. 5-6.

As stated in Metzudat David, “Behold, before Me, you [meaning the prophet] are like the multitude of Israel [hamon yisra’el], and I will be glorified in you as in all of them” (cf. Ibn Ezra, who explained that God views the servant, who is the prophet, as if he were all Israel). Thus, the servant of the Lord, as an individual within Israel, fulfills the mission of Israel, which includes being a light to the nations (49:6-7; see also 42:3-7; remember that Israel was first a personal name before being a corporate name, just as was the case with Jacob, so a personal use of the name in 49:3 is hardly inappropriate).

Note also that while the Servant of the Lord in Isa 53 is a righteous, guiltless sufferer (see further below), Israel as the servant is often anything but righteous. Thus, in 42:24-25, it is stated that the servant Israel was exiled because of sin, incurring God’s wrath; in 43:8, servant Israel is blind and deaf (see also 42:18-19); in 43:22-28, Israel fails to call on the Lord; in 47:6, God is angry with Israel; in 48:1-6, Israel is guilty again, with the exile and return foretold (see also 48:8b-11, 17-19); and in 50:1, God’s indictment is forthright: “for your iniquities you were sold, and for your transgressions your mother was sent away” (Isa 50:1 ESV; being “sold” and “sent away” is synonymous with being exiled). As noted by Hugenberger, “Deutero-Isaiah repeatedly stresses that contemporary Israel is a sinful people, who suffer on account of their own transgressions (40:2; 42:18-25; 43:22-28; 47:7; 48:18f.; 50:1; 54:7; 57:17; 59:2ff.) This point is made specifically with reference to the remnant in 43:22; 46:3, 12; 48:1, 8; 53:6, 8; 55:7; 58:1ff.; 63:17; 64:5-7.”

This is in harmony with the prophetic voices like Amos (e.g., 4:4-12) and Hosea (e.g., 5:7-15), along with the explicit testimony of 2Kg 17 (see esp. vv. 7-23), stating emphatically that the Assyrian exile of the 10 northern tribes of Israel was because of Israel’s persistent, unrepentant rebellion and sin. Consequently, prophets like Jeremiah (e.g., 32:28-36) and Ezekiel (e.g., 5:5-17), along with the explicit testimony of 2Chr 36 (see esp. vv. 15-16), state emphatically that the Babylonian exile of the southern tribes of Judah was because of Judah’s persistent, unrepentant rebellion and sin. This is confirmed by the retrospective testimony of Lamentations (1:5, 8, 14, 18, 20, 22; 2:14; 3:40-42; 4:12-13; 5:7, 16), along with Ezra (9:6-7), Nehemiah (9:26-36), Daniel (9:4-13), and Zechariah (1:1-6).

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[Johann]

Traditional Jewish exegesis primarily sees Israel (or, the righteous remnant of Israel) as the servant of Isa 53, understanding 52:14-53:8 to reflect the astonishment of kings of the nations, who, upon Israel’s future exaltation (52:13) are shocked to realize that the people of Israel, who were exiled in their midst, were not suffering for their own sins but rather for the sins of these foreign countries. And, these kings realize, it was Israel’s suffering that brought them forgiveness and healing.

Thus, Rashi and a number of other Jewish interpreters understood Isa 53 to be speaking of vicarious sufferings–indeed, even vicarious atonement–despite the difficulty of explaining how this applied to the effects of Israel’s sufferings in exile. Rashi commented (to 53:4) that the servant “was chastised with pains so that all the nations be atoned for with Israel’s suffering. … he was chastised so that there be peace for the entire world.” Similarly, the 11th century rabbi Yoseph Kara wrote that, “the Holy One created for Himself one just nation in the world, which carried on itself all iniquities in order that the whole world might be preserved; and by his stripes there was healing for us.” In keeping with this, the 13th century, anti-Christian apologist rabbi Yoseph ben Nathan explained, “But he carried our sickness: now we [meaning, the Gentile kings] see that that was not the cause: the sickness which ought to have come upon us, came upon him, and through them atonement was made for us: his chastenings were for our transgressions, and they resulted in our peace; the Holy One, did not, as he would otherwise have done, destroy the world for our iniquities.”

Rabbi Yehudah HaLevi Kuzari also understood Isa 53 to speak of vicarious suffering, with reference again to Israel’s sufferings in exile: “Now we are burdened by them [viz., the infirmities and diseases of Isa 53:4], whilst the whole enjoys rest and prosperity. The trials which meet us are meant to prove our faith, to cleanse us completely, and to remove all taint from us. If we are good the Divine Influence is with us in this world” [2:44. Hirschfield tr.]. And then, the heart of the matter from the Kuzari is as reproduced almost verbatim by Isaac Troki, the Karaite polemicist and author in his work Hizzuk Emunah, “Faith Strengthened”: “The reason for this is that Israel is the choicest of human kind, just as the heart is the choicest organ in the body; when, therefore, they are in exile in the midst of the nations, like the heart in the midst of the other organs, they bear all the calamities which fall upon the Gentiles in whose midst they are exactly as the heart bears the bitterness and anguish of all the body in the centre of which it resides.”

All this, however, is completely untenable in the larger biblical context (see above, with reference to the unanimous testimony of the prophets, priests, and leaders that Israel and Judah were justly exiled because of their many sins). Ezekiel tells us what the verdict of the nations will be regarding the cause of Israel’s exile: “And the nations shall know that the House of Israel were exiled only for their iniquity, because they trespassed against Me, so that I hid My face from them and delivered them into the hands of their adversaries, and they all fell by the sword. When I hid My face from them, I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and their transgressions” (Ezk 39:23-24 NJPS).

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[Johann]

So, far from the nations discovering that the people Israel were not suffering for their own sins but rather for those of the nations, these nations learn that “the House of Israel were exiled only for their iniquity.” Moreover, Israel’s sufferings in exile did not bring healing to the nations but rather judgment. As stated in Jer 50:17-18 (ESV): “Israel is a hunted sheep driven away by lions. First the king of Assyria devoured him, and now at last Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon has gnawed his bones. Therefore, thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I am bringing punishment on the king of Babylon and his land, as I punished the king of Assyria.” (for the general principle of God destroying the nations to which He exiled His people, see Jer 30:11; Zch 2:6-9).

In sum, the national servant, Israel, is loved by God but guilty, blind and deaf, suffering for its own sins. The individual Servant is righteous, suffering vicariously for the sins of others. This agrees with the Sinai theology of blessings for national obedience and curses for national disobedience (Lv 26; Dt 28). In light of this, righteous, national Israel would be established in the land, triumphing over her enemies; unrighteous Israel would be exiled for the nations, vanquished by her enemies. In the words of Daniel, uttered while in Babylonian captivity: “All Israel has transgressed your law and turned aside, refusing to obey your voice. And the curse and oath that are written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him” (Dn 9:11 ESV).

Could Isa 53 instead apply to the righteous remnant, as posited by some rabbinic commentators? The voice of that remnant appears to be heard in passages like Ps 44, where the author protests that terrible calamities have come upon his people “though we have not forgotten you, and we have not been false to your covenant.” (Ps 44:17 ESV).

Certainly, there were righteous individuals like Daniel and Ezekiel who suffered in exile because of the guilt of the nations as a whole. Yet once again, this interpretation breaks down since: (1) The suffering of the righteous remnant did not bring healing to the nations, which, instead, were severely judged by the Lord for their excessive treatment of Israel (see above, with reference to Jer 50:17-18; see also Mic 5:5-6, where God’s deliverance of His people means judgments for the oppressor nations); (2) In contrast to Ibn Ezra’s view, that the “healing” of the nations came through exiled Israel’s prayers for their wellbeing (in keeping with Jer 29:7), not only were those nations not healed, but it appears that the righteous remnant interceded for judgment (rather than healing) to come upon their enemies. See, e.g., Lam 1:22 and 3:61-66, and note that this righteous remnant identified with the sin and guilt of the rest of the nation of Israel, thereby recognizing that their suffering was just; (3) Since the servant is clearly an individual elsewhere in Isa 40-55 (see again above), and since Isa 53 reads more naturally as personal rather than collective, there is no good reason to apply it to the righteous remnant, unless that remnant is reduced to one, namely, the Messiah, the truly righteous One whose vicarious suffering brings healing to repentant Israel and the nations. (Brown, The Moody Handbook of Messianic Prophecy: Studies and Expositions of the Messiah in the Old Testament, Michael Rydelnik and Edwin Blum (general editors) [Moody Publishers, Chicago, IL 2019], Isaiah 52:13-53:12: The Substitution of the Servant of the Lord, pp. 962-966)

ISAIAH 53 IS NOT ABOUT NATIONAL ISRAEL

There are certain Muslim polemicists and anti-Christian rabbis such as Tovia Singer who deny that Isaiah 52:13-53:12 is a prophecy of the vicarious suffering and substitutionary death of the Messia…

answeringislamblog.wordpress.com

You are sitting with a problem--you are being taught wrong.

I also would suggest you listen to the video clips--since you are being refuted, and stands refuted-

This video is how the rabbis are lying-even to you, and it is permissible.

Continue--

 

[Johann]

In case you didn't know--

A Leading Jewish Rabbi Exposes the Duplicity of Jewish anti-Christian Missionaries!
One of the leading rabbinic Jewish philosophers and scholars, the late rabbi Joseph Immanuel Schochet, candidly admitted in his review of a work by a fellow Jewish scholar that rabbis often employ weak (meaning not so honest) arguments to refute Christians which they know do not necessarily reflect the actual Jewish position of a particular subject. One of the examples he uses to illustrate this fact is the counter-missionary claim that Isaiah 53 is not speaking of the Messiah, but of the nation of Israel!

Dr. Berger relies heavily on arguments in mediaeval [sic] polemics. It is of major concern to him that “one of the defining characteristics of Judaism in a Christian world will have been erased” by the possibility of a resurrected messiah (p. 31, and see also p. 35). In truth, of course, the Jewish faith is defined by its own tradition and not by its differences from Christianity. Polemical debates, regardless of its participants, are neither definitive nor authoritative. The Talmudic rabbis engaged in such debates as well. Oftentimes they conceded that they rebuffed their opponents with “straw” or “broken reeds,” i.e., that their responses were no more than polemical tactics and not their true positions.
A typical example would be the Jewish responses about “the suffering servant” of Isaiah 53. The polemicists follow the majority opinion of mediaeval [sic] Jewish exegetes that it speaks of the Jewish people, as opposed to the Christian claim that it speaks of the messiah. This view is found also among some Talmudic rabbis. IT DOES NOT NEGATE, however, the validity of the PERVASIVE Talmudic-Midrashic-Zoharic interpretation that the subject of that chapter IS INDEED MASHIACH.

In this self-same context, Dr. Berger draws ammunition for his attack from the fact that Christian missionaries now argue that the claims of messiahship for the Lubavitcher Rebbe support and vindicate the Christian allegations of a “second coming.” He ignores the fact that for the longest time they have claimed that authentic Jewish sources support and vindicate the messiahship of Jesus. They keep republishing books which cite numerous passages from Talmud, Midrash, Zohar, Jewish Bible-commentaries and other works, to validate their arguments. Are we now to erase these quotations from our heritage? (The Professor, Messiah, & Scandal of CalumniesThe Rebbe – The Messiah – and the Scandal of Orthodox Indifference by David Berger. The Littman Library of Jewish Civilization, Portland 2001;195pp. Review Essay by Rabbi J. Immanuel Schochet, https://web.archive.org/web/20020219192400/http://shmais.com/chabad_Detail.cfm?ID=279; bold, capital and underline emphasis ours)

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[Johann]

There you have it folks. Next time an anti-missionary tries to employs a “straw” or “broken reed” to rebuff the Messianic interpretation of Isaiah 53, simply quote to him the words of this prominent and renowned Jewish scholar and philosopher of the 20th-21st century.

Come back to Messiah--you are being led astray

Sam Shamoun, a man I highly respect-

 

[Eliyahu613]

Goodness!--It looks like the Norse=Vikings are upon us!
Lol! Guess there is no way out-once you're in Judaism?
Are you Ultra-Orthodox?

Bs"d

I'm normal orthodox, but there is no group that is more strict, so I'm on the most orthodox side.

Like I've said-I know more about Judaism than any here

Give this a listen.

How a Orthodox Jewess changed her mind on Asham, plural deaths-intensified-do you know Hebrew?

Bs"d

In verse 8 the plural points to the ones slain in the sea: "They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of [them
that are] slain in the midst of the seas." KJV.

In verse 10 it is even more obvious that the "deaths" refer to the "uncircumcised ones". The uncircumcised are plural, therefore the word "death" of them also has to be plural, that's the rule in Hebrew, that an adjective has to follow the noun in number.
There is no "intense death" in Hebrew.

 

[Johann]

Bs"d

I'm normal orthodox, but there is no group that is more strict, so I'm on the most orthodox side.


Bs"d

In verse 8 the plural points to the ones slain in the sea: "They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of [them
that are] slain in the midst of the seas." KJV.

In verse 10 it is even more obvious that the "deaths" refer to the "uncircumcised ones". The uncircumcised are plural, therefore the word "death" of them also has to be plural, that's the rule in Hebrew, that an adjective has to follow the noun in number.

And yet I can give you examples of the intensified plural, referring to echad/one individual-as I am sure you know--

Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who of his generation declared? For he was cut off [ Dan_9:26 ; Lev_17:10 ] out of Eretz Chayyim [this refers to the mot of Moshiach Ben Dovid, see Isa_53:12 ] mipesha ami -nega (plague cf Psa_91:10 ) lamo ([fell] on him [i.e., Moshiach; in light of Psa_11:7 and Job_22:2 we are warranted in saying the suffix is a singular, "him," not "them". Cf Gen_9:26-27 ; Deu_33:2 ; Isa_44:15 ; also compare 1Ch_21:17 ]).

And he made his kever with the resha'im, and with the oisher (rich man; see Mt 27:57-60) bemotayv (in his deaths, intensive plural should be translated singular, death); because he had done no chamas ), neither was any mirmah in his mouth. T.N. We stray as sheep; we return in Moshiach as children (zera); the Techiyas HaMoshiach predicted in v. 10 [Dead Sea Scrolls Isaiah Scroll says Moshiach "will see the light [of life];" see also the Targum HaShivim]

I am familiar with the grammar and morphologies of Hebrew.

To strengthen my case-many examples of the plural of a singular whole-