Question for non-JW's

[Wrangler]

Can you see how the devil could have done to “Christianity” exactly what he did to Judaism?

Insightful. I look forward to a thoughtful reply.

 

[Wrangler]

You will find those with expertise in theology are too often totally ignorant of the Bible in other important areas, outside of the doctrines that are taught.

I found this in spades!

A dear friend of mine blew past the fact that God gave Jesus the revelation in Rev 1:1 - even after I pointed it out to him. Once I had him slow down and recognize the word of God he was amazed that he never saw it before. It was so eye opening to him. This man was a church leader for decades, even founded a church.

There are many other examples of people who believe they are into the Bible actually only study the parts they are told - and how to interpret these parts.

 

[Wrangler]

History is repeating and the majority of those who identify as “Christians” don’t seem to notice.

For certain, the devil knows Scripture. Twisting it is his speciality. However, this is not the subject of this thread. Here we are talking about honest truth seekers who do not have humility. IMO, such verses are not misinterpreted but misapplied.
Romans 16:17-18
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, MARK them which cause divisions and offences

The people who start such threads attacking denominations falsely apply such verses to "the OTHER" (denomination) when it is they themselves who are violating the verse, they are the ones who are causing divisions and offenses, labeling their offensives as "defense."

The Bible is a highly personal book. Such verses apply to individuals, not denominations. In short, those who attack denominational differences are not righteous but self-righteous. And this hubris is not the Spirit of God. "Causing divisions ought to be rebuked" for thee, not for me they scream.

 

[Cassandra]

every soul is immortal.

what is important, is where that soul will spend eternity.

do they have eternal life, or eternal death (also called the second death)

That is not true.
1Tim 15-16
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Also look at John 3:16. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So if you don't believe, you perish, not are eternally in the process of perishing.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Those denominations or individuals who deny the word of God & twist it's truths are not fruitful but deceptive!

Titus 3:10-11

10 A man that is an heretick after the FIRST and SECOND admonition REJECT;

11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

 

[BlessedPeace]

False doctrines are to be reproved & exposed and the individuals that promote such are to be marked as not among the brethren, and avoided. If ppl give these the attention they crave, they increase in their promotions.

Romans 16:17-18
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, MARK them which cause divisions and offences CONTRARY to the doctrine which ye have learned; and AVOID them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Debating, discussing, exposing and reproving such is not a personal attack. Saying someone is ignorant, foolish, heretical, a liar or such directed at that person is.

Denominations and their doctrines are too many to count in a discourse for debate. What should be reasoned is the foundation of salvation and the truths used to build our walk upon.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV
ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

1Timothy 1:
.......that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, [4] Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Once these are acknowledged, the only way to remove their theology is to stop feeing into their posts.

As the OP in this thread noted, the JW thread has become a thread full of personal attacks.

Has any OP started here and questioning the doctrine of any denominational teaching remained civil throughout?

 

[BlessedPeace]

every soul is immortal.

what is important, is where that soul will spend eternity.

do they have eternal life, or eternal death (also called the second death)

True. Every soul is from God. And when the body has returned to the dust, the soul has returned to the Father from whom it was bestowed.

Glorious.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

As the OP in this thread noted, the JW thread has become a thread full of personal attacks.

Has any OP started here and questioning the doctrine of any denominational teaching remained civil throughout?

No it does not profit any to question, debate nor discuss denominal doctrine.
However the word is clear of it's purpose in instruction, reproof, correction ect. unto those whom sincerely want to KNOW GOD!

 

[BlessedPeace]

No it does not profit any to question, debate nor discuss denominal doctrine.
However the word is clear of it's purpose in instruction, reproof, correction ect. unto those whom sincerely want to KNOW GOD!

I think we are mistaken if we think the only way to know God is to encase ourselves in an ideology that presumes to put the immensity of the Father into a box.

Christianity is Judaism, graduated to recognizing the prophesied Messiah has arrived. Because it was within the teachings of Judaism that the whole idea of fallen nature and salvation from it through a future savior,Messiah,arrived.

Judaism is exclusive. And so too is its offspring, Christianity.
Only one way to know God,Jesus,Salvation. We say.

However, Jesus said no one comes to him unless his Father leads them.

And I would say that communication is unique between that sinner and our Lord.

Certainly there is the teaching of how Jesus arrived and gave his life to seal the new salvation covenant.

But I believe insisting there is only one strict closed way to be in relationship with God is wrong.

Denominational constructs divide the church and ask us to take sides when we align with any one of them. I believe that is also wrong.

I'm an Episcopalian Christian, as example, puts Christ second. And the doctrine that imparts what it means to hold faith in Christ while practicing that faith according to Episcopalian doctrine of faith, comes first.

The first people's following Christ did not ascribe to a denomination. They weren't even Christians. That label attached later in Antioch.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Say whaaaaaat ????
Are you talking to me......
Whatever denom one identifies with if Christ comes SECOND in your allegiance of your church, I'll just say hmmmmmm...........

 

[BlessedPeace]

Say whaaaaaat ????
Are you talking to me......View attachment 36604
Whatever denom one identifies with if Christ comes SECOND in your allegiance of your church, I'll just say hmmmmmm...........

Know any denominational Christians ?
"Are you a Christian?"
"Yes, I'm Methodist "

Are all church statements of faith identical?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I do not recognize believers by the label " christian" even if they identify as such.
I also do not recognize ppl by the label of their denomination even if they do.
I recognize fellow believers by the Spirit that bears witness that we are the" children of God", in their belief of God's word.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Even Biblegateway promotes this deliberate deception. I've noticed when I copy a verse with the word "LORD" from Biblegateway, it pastes "Lord." This is no mistake. I even contacted them about it. No reply. Please try it and tell me what you find.

Yes, I did notice the same problem. The capitalisation in translations of the Hebrew Scriptures indicates where the divine name has been substituted some 7,000 times......that is no small substitution.

The one place that annoys me more than all others is Exodus 3:13-15 where God’s name is omitted from the most important verse given to Israel about God’s name.....”The LORD” is not God’s name, and Israel were told “this is my name forever”. They disobeyed all through their history and because of a superstitious attitude toward “the name” translated his title instead, without his sanction or permission. When speaking they would use “hasham” (literally “the name”) when reading Bible verses or speaking about God, instead of using “Yahweh” (Jehovah in English). There was no excuse for God’s name to be lost.

 

[Jack]

Yes, I did notice the same problem. The capitalisation in translations of the Hebrew Scriptures indicates where the divine name has been substituted some 7,000 times......that is no small substitution.

The one place that annoys me more than all others is Exodus 3:13-15 where God’s name is omitted from the most important verse given to Israel about God’s name.....”The LORD” is not God’s name, and Israel were told “this is my name forever”. They disobeyed all through their history and because of a superstitious attitude toward “the name” translated his title instead, without his sanction or permission. When speaking they would use “hasham” (literally “the name”) when reading Bible verses or speaking about God, instead of using “Yahweh” (Jehovah in English). There was no excuse for God’s name to be lost.

Wow! Kingdom Hall BLASPHEMY! It just gets more and more Satanic!

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, I did notice the same problem. The capitalisation in translations of the Hebrew Scriptures indicates where the divine name has been substituted some 7,000 times......that is no small substitution.

Indeed. I doubt most trinitarians realize the insult to God in removing his divine name from the Bible.

IMO, it is a first principle in keeping both the 1st and 2nd Commandments. This begs the question of where are people’s loyalty.

Contrast to the American pledge of Allegiance - but removing any reference to a specific entity to be loyal to …

I pledge allegiance to <a banner> of <what we hold dear> and to <the organization> for which it stands one <team>, under <the Big Guy>.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I think we are mistaken if we think the only way to know God is to encase ourselves in an ideology that presumes to put the immensity of the Father into a box.

Jehovah is so much bigger than any box that man wants to put him in....

Christianity is Judaism, graduated to recognizing the prophesied Messiah has arrived. Because it was within the teachings of Judaism that the whole idea of fallen nature and salvation from it through a future savior,Messiah,arrived.

Thank you.....this fact seems to be lost on a lot of Christians. There was a reason why God chose Israel to produce his Messiah....to honor his “friend”, Abraham. Jesus did not come to start a new religion but to institute a new covenant, different from the old one, as Jeremiah had foretold.

Jeremiah 31:31-33....
“Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant. 32 It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, ‘my covenant that they broke, although I was their true master,’ declares Jehovah.”

33 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”

If we read Jeremiah’s words there we see something interesting.....the new covenant was to be made with “the house of Israel” at a future time. This covenant is not written on parchment, but on hearts. It was prophesied that although Israel would be great in numbers, only a remnant would be saved. (Isa 10:22-23; Romans 9:27-29)

When Jesus Christ came to the nation of Israel, the majority rejected him. Only a remnant expressed faith and became followers of him. These became a new “Israel”....”the Israel of God”, (Gal 6:6) made up of that Jewish remnant, along with the Gentiles believers who came to Christ after his death. This is spiritual Israel.

Judaism is exclusive. And so too is its offspring, Christianity.
Only one way to know God,Jesus,Salvation. We say.

However, Jesus said no one comes to him unless his Father leads them.

Yes.....’no one can come to the Father except through Jesus’, BUT ‘no one can come to Jesus without an invitation from the Father’. (John 6:44, 65) No one comes into the true Christian congregation uninvited. God chooses us as much as we think we choose him. There are not many ways to come into a relationship with Jesus and his God and Father......there is only one way to God. All who follow Christ must be united in faith and beliefs, because Holy Spirit does not divide brothers. (1 Cor 1:10)

And I would say that communication is unique between that sinner and our Lord.

Certainly there is the teaching of how Jesus arrived and gave his life to seal the new salvation covenant.

But I believe insisting there is only one strict closed way to be in relationship with God is wrong.

There has never been another way to come to the true God. He does not recognise labels, but he does read hearts and will give an invitation only to those he sees are ready to obey hm in faith, regardless of how unpopular it makes them. (John 15:18-21) There is only one truth, and those invited into God’s family know it.

Denominational constructs divide the church and ask us to take sides when we align with any one of them. I believe that is also wrong.

There were no denominations when Jesus and his apostles were alive. There was just one “Christian” congregation, the members of which met in various places, not to participate in repetitive rituals, but to study God’s word and train to make disciples of others. It was the last command Jesus gave his followers. (Matt 28:19-20)

I'm an Episcopalian Christian, as example, puts Christ second. And the doctrine that imparts what it means to hold faith in Christ while practicing that faith according to Episcopalian doctrine of faith, comes first.

The first people's following Christ did not ascribe to a denomination. They weren't even Christians. That label attached later in Antioch.

It took a while for the followers of Jesus to completely separate from corrupted Judaism, but it had to happen.....these “Christians” were to uphold all that Jesus taught them and separating from the corrupted Jewish religious system that people grew up believing was the correct way to worship God, had to happen.

Jesus sealed the fate of natural Israel.....
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you. 39 For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’”

To this day, individuals from natural Israel have come to Christ, accepting hm as Messiah, but the nation as a whole never will. They will never “bless the one who came in Jehovah’s name”. Their pride will not allow them to accept responsibility for the murder of their own savior.

 

[face2face]

Can you see how the devil could have done to “Christianity” exactly what he did to Judaism?

@Wrangler

Sincerely Wrangler... do you think it’s only right to ask Jane if she can substantiate this above comment, by providing evidence that Jesus attributes this creatures work to influencing Judaism?

I mean where in the NT do we have a chapter where Jesus works through the destructive influences on the Pharisees? Every passage I read he lays their guilt and adultery at their feet!

I know Jane won't respond, I get it...too many hard questions with absolutely no Bible based repsonses. I sense there is a growing interest in this forum for those who believe in this so called rebel angel to start defending their belief otherwise comments like this one above should be shown for what they are...notions in the mind.

F2F

 

[Wrangler]

Can you see how the devil could have done to “Christianity” exactly what he did to Judaism?

Sincerely Wrangler... do you think it’s only right to ask Jane if she can substantiate this above comment, by providing evidence that Jesus attributes this creatures work to influencing Judaism?

Appeal to Strawman. Just because one man did not speak a truth does not mean it is not true. There is no evidence that Jesus attributes circles as being round. Yet, round they are!

I think only one theologically driven to deny it, could not find Biblical evidence of what @Aunty Jane wrote. Again, I bring you to the verses right after Jesus baptism. Satan offered the world to Jesus because he is the god of this world. And Judaism is a part of this fallen world.

Friend, I think you are in spiritual denial. You do not know who we contend with; it is not merely the darkness within. Please comment on this verse.


We are not fighting against humans. We are fighting against forces and authorities and against rulers of darkness and powers in the spiritual world.
Ephesians 6:12 (CEV)

 

[Wrangler]

Michael is the JW savior. Jesus / God is the Christian Savior.

Jack. This thread is not to get JW's to defend their doctrine but to get non-JW to defend the practice of theirs.

 

[Jack]

Jack. This thread is not to get JW's to defend their doctrine but to get non-JW to defend the practice of theirs.

I just did.

Michael is the JW savior. Jesus / God is the Christian Savior.