Question For JW's
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NWT John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".
NWT Isaiah 44 This is what Jehovah says,The King of Israel and his Repurchaser, Jehovah of armies: ‘I am the first and I am the last.
NWT Rev 1
17 I am the First and the Last, 18 and the living one, and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever,
No one else in the Bible is called "the first and the last" but Jesus and "Jehovah". They are the same being!
Keiw
Well-Known Member
You / Kingdom Hall are the ones who says our Bibles are errors and Satanic, just like Satan would do!
As usual, you evade even what your JW bible says! Jesus is God and Hell fire is eternal!
Last edited:
Keiw
Well-Known Member
God is love, or God is a sadist--Which is it Jack?
You're still evading your JW bible. Why don't JW's answer questions? Do you need permission from Kingdom Hall? Does this make God a "sadist"?
NWT Gen 7:4 For in just seven days, I will make it rain on the earth for 40 days and 40 nights, and I will wipe from the surface of the ground every living thing that I have made.
How about this?
NWT Rev 20:15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.
Have you ever read your JW bible?
Dr. Mantey's Letter to WTS
July 11 , 1974
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society
117 Adams St.,Brooklyn,
New York 11201
Dear Sirs,
I have a copy of your letter addressed to Caris in Santa Ana, California, and I am writing to express my disagreement with statements made in that letter, as well as in quotations you have made from the Dana-Mantey Greek Grammar.(1) Your statement: "their work allows for the rendering found in the Kingdom Inter-linear Translation of the Greek Scriptures at John 1: 1.'' There is no statement in our grammar that was ever meant to imply that "a god" was a permissible translation in John 1:1.
A. We had no "rule" to argue in support of the Trinity.
B. Neither did we state that we did have such intention. We were simply delineating the facts inherent in Biblical language. .
Your quotation from page 148 ( 3 ) was in a paragraph under the heading: "With the Subject in a Copulative Sentence." , Two examples occur there to illustrate that "the article points out the subject in these examples,'' But we made no statement in this paragraph about the predicate except that, "as it stands the other persons of the Trinity may be implied in theos." And isn't that the opposite of what your translation "a god" infers? You quoted me out of context. on pages 139 and 140 (VI) in our grammar we stated: "without the article theos signifies divine essence. . "theos on ho logos" emphasises Christ's participation in the essence of the divine nature.''
0ur interpretation is in agreement with that in NEB and the TEV: "What God was, the Word was": and with that of Barclay: "The nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God'' , which you quoted in your letter to Caris.
(2) Since Colwell's and Harner's articles in JBL, especially that of Harner, it is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1: 1 "The Word was a god" . Word order has made obsolete and incorrect such a rendering .
(3) Your quotation of Colwell 's rule is inadequate because it quotes only a part of his findings. You did not quote this strong assertion: "A predicate nominative which precedes the verb cannot be translated as an indefinite or a ''qualitative'' noun soley because of the absence of the article. ''
(4) Prof. Harner, Vol. 92.1 (1973) in JBL, has gone beyond Colwell's research and has discovered that anarthrous predicate nouns preceding the verb function primarily to express the nature of character of the subject . He found this true in 53 passages in the Gospel of John and 8 in the Gospel of Mark, Both scholars wrote that when indefiniteness was intended, the Gospel writers regularly placed the predicate noun after the verb, and both Colwell and Harner have stated that theos in John l: 1 is not indefinite and should not be translated "a god".
Watchtower writers appear to be the only ones advocating such a translation now. The evidence appears to be 99% against them.
( 5) Your statement in your letter that the sacred text itself should guide one and "not just someone's rule book". We agree with you. But our study proves that Jehovah's Witnesses do the opposite of that whenever the "sacred text" differs with their heretical beliefs. For example, the translation of kolasis as cutting off when punishment is the only meaning cited in the Lexicons for it. The mistranslation of ego eim as "I have been" in John 8:58. The addition of "for all time" in Hebrews 9:27 when nothing in the Greek New Testament supports it.
The attempt to belittle Christ by mistranslating arche tes ktisoos "beginning of the creation" when he is magnified as "the creator of all things" (John 1 :2) , and as "equal with God" (Phil. 2:6) before he humbled himself and lived in a human body here on earth. Your quotation of "The Father is greater than I am" (John 14:28) to prove that Jesus was not equal to God overlooks the fact stated in Phil: 12: 6-8, when Jesus said that he was still in his voluntary state of humiliation. That state ended when he ascended to heaven.
Why the attempt to deliberately deceive people by mispunctuation by placing a comma after "today" in Luke 23:43 when in the Greek, Latin, German and all English translations except yours, in the Greek in even your KIT, the comma occurs after lego (I say)?-- "Today you will be with me, in Paradise". 2 Cor. 5:8, "to be out of the body and at home with the lord'' These passages teach that the redeemed go immediately to heaven after death , which does not agree with your teachings that death ends all life until the resurrection (Ps. 23:6 and Heb. 1: 10 ) .
The above are only a few examples of Watchtower mistranslations and perversions of God's Word.In view of the preceding facts, especially because you have been quoting me out of context I here with request you not to quote the Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament again, which you have been doing for 24 years. Also, that you not quote it or me in any of your publications from this time on.Also, that you publicly and immediately apologise in the Watchtower magazine, since my words had no relevance to the absence of the article before theos in John 1: 1. And please write to Caris and state that you misused and misquoted my "rule".
On the page before the Preface in the grammar are these words: "All rights reserved no part of this book may be reproduced in any form without permission in writing from the publisher". If you have such permission, please send me a photocopy of i t. If you do not heed these requests, you will suffer the consequences .
Regretfully yours ,
Julius R. Mantey
Dr Mantey's Letter
JehovahÕs Witnesses quote Dr. Mantey for support. Find out what he thought of the matter.
mmoutreachinc.com
pro and con best site For an Answer: Christian Apologetics - Scholars & NWT
jashow.org
Q: Have you also made yourself familiar with Hebrew?
A: (Franz) Yes.
Q: So that you have a substantion linguistic apparatus at your command?
A: Yes, for use in my biblical work.
Q: I think you are able to read and follow the Bible in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Spanish, Portuguese, German, and French?
A: Yes.
—-LATER, DURING THE SAME CROSS-EXAMINATION:
Q: You, yourself, read and speak Hebrew, do you?
A: I do not speak Hebrew.
Q: You do not?
A: No.
Q: Can you, yourself, translate that into Hebrew?
A: Which:
Q: That fourth verse of the second chapter of Genesis?
A: You mean here?
Q: Yes.
A: No.
We asked a Hebrew teacher at Biola College/Talbot Theological Seminary if the fourth verse of the second chapter of Genesis was a particularly difficult verse to translate. After all, the pursuer’s question would hardly have been fair if it were the hardest verse in the Old Testament to translate. The professor said that he would never pass a first-year Hebrew student who could not translate that verse.
Has the Watchtower Ever Lied, Covered Up, or Changed Important Doctrines, Dates, and Biblical Interpretations?/Program 4 - JA Show Articles
Ankerberg: Welcome! During this program we’re going to be examining a new documentary film that has just come out entitled Witnesses of Jehovah. And it’s
Fred Franz Court Transcripts, November 24, 1954
From the Pursuer’s Proof of the cross-examination held on Wednesday, November 24, 1954, p. 7, paragraphs A-B. Examining Fred W. Franx, vice-president of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and sent as representative of the Society and the Translation Comm.Q: Have you also made yourself familiar with Hebrew?
A: (Franz) Yes.
Q: So that you have a substantion linguistic apparatus at your command?
A: Yes, for use in my biblical work.
Q: I think you are able to read and follow the Bible in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Spanish, Portuguese, German, and French?
A: Yes.
—-LATER, DURING THE SAME CROSS-EXAMINATION:
Q: You, yourself, read and speak Hebrew, do you?
A: I do not speak Hebrew.
Q: You do not?
A: No.
Q: Can you, yourself, translate that into Hebrew?
A: Which:
Q: That fourth verse of the second chapter of Genesis?
A: You mean here?
Q: Yes.
A: No.
We asked a Hebrew teacher at Biola College/Talbot Theological Seminary if the fourth verse of the second chapter of Genesis was a particularly difficult verse to translate. After all, the pursuer’s question would hardly have been fair if it were the hardest verse in the Old Testament to translate. The professor said that he would never pass a first-year Hebrew student who could not translate that verse.
Metzger on the errors of the New World Translation
www.bible-researcher.com
Fred Franz Court Transcripts, November 24, 1954 - Christian Research Institute
From the Pursuer’s Proof of the cross-examination held on Wednesday, November 24, 1954, p. 7, paragraphs A-B. Examining Fred W. Franx, vice-president of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and sent as representative of the Society and the Translation Comm. Q: Have you also made yourself...
Scholars, Bias, and the New World Translation
If reviews of a film all rot, that tells me the movie's a stinker. If reviews gush with praise, that tells me the film's great. But if some reviewers savage a film and others praise it - the same film...
carriertom.typepad.com
What Do Greek Scholars Think of the Watchtower Society's New World Translation of the Bible?
In their small book The Facts on Jehovah's Witnesses , authors John Ankerberg and John Weldon contend that "Greek scholars, Christian and...
truthbomb.blogspot.com
The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures – Part 2 - JA Show Articles
Dr. Robert Countess’ published doctoral thesis, The Jehovah’s Witness New Testament: A Critical Analysis of the New World Translation of the Christian Greek
Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar, said "it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."
British scholar H.H. Rowley stated, "From beginning to end this volume is a shining example of how the Bible should not be translated."
"Well, as a backdrop, I was disturbed because they (Watchtower) had misquoted me in support of their translation." (These words were excerpted from the tape, "Martin and Julius Mantey on The New World Translation", Mantey is quoted on pages 1158-1159 of the Kingdom interlinear Translation)
Dr. Julius Mantey , author of A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, calls the NWT "a shocking mistranslation." "Obsolete and incorrect." "It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 'The Word was a god.'"
"I have never read any New Testament so badly translated as The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of The Greek Scriptures.... it is a distortion of the New Testament. The translators used what J.B. Rotherham had translated in 1893, in modern speech, and changed the readings in scores of passages to state what Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach. That is a distortion not a translation." (Julius Mantey , Depth Exploration in The New Testament (N.Y.: Vantage Pres, 1980), pp.136-137)
the translators of the NWT are "diabolical deceivers." (Julius Mantey in discussion with Walter Martin)
Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar, said "it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."
Google Bruce Metzer, Marcus Borg, N.T. Wright, Elaine Pagels, Dominic Crossan-they all believe the NWT is a travesty. It is very bad. These people studied Koine Greek and the social/political world for decades.
The New Testament-A New Translation and Explanation based on the Oldest Manuscripts, by Johannes Greber is a case in point.
They cited him at least nine times in their publications dating from 1956 to 1983. Some examples are:
Aid to Bible Understanding (1969), pages 1134 and 1669
Make Sure of All Things—Hold Fast to What Is Fine (1965), page 489
The Watchtower, 9/15/62, page 554
The Watchtower, 10/15/75, page 640
The Watchtower, 4/15/76, page 231
The Word—Who Is He? According to John (1962), page 5
Yet The Watchtower of February 15, 1956, contains nearly a full page devoted to warning readers against Johannes Greber and his translation. It refers to his book titled Communication with the Spirit-World: Its Laws and Its Purpose and states, “Very plainly the spirits in which ex-priest Greber believes helped him in his translation” (The Watchtower, 2/15/56, p. 111).
Greber was popular with Jehovah’s Witnesses for many years because his Bible supported their translation of John 1:1, ‘…and the Word was [a] god.’ As recently as Summer 2016 an inquiry to our offices saw Greber appealed to again in a copy of The Word-Who is He? According to John (1962).
Why would Jehovah’s Witnesses persist in putting this forward as an argument for their reading of John 1:1? It doesn’t help the typical Witness that the Society itself misleadingly cited this ‘translation’ up until 1983. Further, there is so much redundant Watchtower material out there and a Jehovah’s Witness will regard any publication under the banner ‘Watchtower Society’ as authoritative.
Johannes Greber
Johannes Greber was born in Wenigerath, Germany, and was ordained a Catholic priest. The whole course of his life changed in 1923 when he attended a séance. Renouncing his vows, he left the Catholic church and, in 1929, emigrated to the USA. It was in New York that he began prayer and healing sessions. He later produced and published The New Testament, A New Translation and Explanation Based on the Oldest Manuscripts (1937).
But this was no ordinary scholarly work. Greber claimed that he translated with his wife acting as a medium. This authority Jehovah’s Witnesses use claimed that, where there was doubt, or in he absence of original sources, he happily used the text given by the spirits. While the claim is that this translation is ‘based on the oldest manuscripts,’ this is patently not true. Jehovah’s Witnesses, in using Greber, are being led by spirit guides.
It was only after ex-Witnesses drew attention to the fact that Greber was a spiritualist that The Watchtower of April 1st 1983 published the following:
“This translation was used occasionally in support of renderings of Matthew 27:52, 53 and John 1:1, as given in the New World Translation and other authoritative Bible versions. But as indicated in a foreword to the 1980 edition of The New Testament by Johannes Greber, this translator relied on “God’s Spirit World” to clarify for him how he should translate difficult passages. It is stated: “His wife, a medium of God’s Spirit world was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God’s Messengers to Pastor Greber.” The Watchtower has deemed it improper to make use of a translation that has such a close rapport with spiritism. (Deuteronomy 18:10–12) The scholarship that forms the basis for the rendering of the above-cited texts in the New World Translation is sound and for this reason does not depend at all on Greber’s translation for authority. Nothing is lost, therefore, by ceasing to use his New Testament.”
This makes it look as though they have just discovered his background and decided to drop him. However, as we have seen, the Watchtower Society had known about Greber’s spiritualism as far back as 1956.
In ‘The Word, Who is He’ (1962) they introduce Greber’s translation thus: ‘Similar is the reading by a former Roman Catholic priest.’ Given the unrelenting attacks the Society makes on the Roman Catholic Church, one might infer that they are celebrating a disaffected priest who has come to disavow his faith because of a Bible translation. The truth is he gave up his calling because he attended a seance and became convinced of spiritualism. Its not what you say, its the way that you say it – as well, of course, as what you fail to mention.
Emphatic Diaglott:
A favourite translation is this by Benjamin Wilson. He is described by commentators as an autodidactic Bible scholar. In other words, self-taught and bringing to the task of Bible translation no formal qualifications; rather like the translators of the NWT. Wilson, starting out as a Baptist, became an Adventist, joining with the Cambellites for a while, then becoming a Christadelphian. He denied completely the pre-mortal existence of Jesus, his deity, and the whole doctrine of incarnation. Is it any wonder he would agree with Jehovah’s Witnesses?
Jehovah's Witnesses, Translations, and the New World Translation - Reachout Trust
Jehovah’s Witnesses, in support of their New World Translation, make extensive use of obscure, questionable Bible translations. You won’t find them in your local Christian...
reachouttrust.org
Bad Translations of the Jehovah's Witness' Bible, the New World Translation (NWT)
The New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses has changed the text to suit its own theological bias against the deity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
carm.org
Getting over the Hurdles of the New World Translation - Christian Research Institute
This article first appeared in the Christian Research Journal, volume29, number3 (2006). For further information or to subscribe to the Christian Research Journal go to: http://www.equip.org SYNOPSIS Believers who attempt to present the message of Christ to Jehovah’s Witnesses face several...
Johannes Greber, a medium of “God’s spirit world” – quoted by the WT to support its NWT
Johannes Greber (1876-1944), ordained Catholic priest, then spiritist
His “New Testament” is used to back the Watchtower’s New World Translation in John 1:1 and Matthew 27:52, 53, and more
Also by Greber, Communication with the Spirit World of God/It’s Laws and Purpose
Born in Germany, ordained a Catholic priest, Johannes Greber then renounced his vows after engaging in a séance. He became a spiritist communicating with “God’s spirit world.” He emigrated to the United States in 1923 where he “translated” the New Testament with the aid of the mediumship of his wife.Why is Johannes Greber important? The Watchtower Society has used him to give credibility to some of their more outrageous “translations” of the New Testament, such as John 1:1 and Matthew 27:52, 53, but there appear to be other verses the Watchtower has emulated, too.
The New Testament by Johannes Greber “translates” some of the verses word for word, or nearly so, as the Watchtower’s New World Translation. Greber explains in the Introduction (written in 1937) of the 1980 edition of his “New Testament” that “The day came, however, when I involuntarily took my first step toward such communication [with the world of God’s spirits], and experienced things that shook me to the depths of my soul…Many readers of this book [Communication with the Spirit-World: Its Laws and Its Purpose] who have sought to communicate with God’s spirit-world have had experiences similar to my own and found the same truths that I have found.”
In an open letter from the Johannes Greber Memorial Foundation found just before this Introduction [of his book], we are given the details of how Greber communicated with “God’s spirit-world”: “At times he was given the correct answers in large illuminated letters and words passing before his eyes. Other times he was given the correct answers during prayer meetings. His wife, a medium of God’s Spiritworld was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God’s Messengers to Pastor Greber.”
The Watchtower magazine, dated April 1, 1983, p. 31, states in “Questions From Readers?”:
However, look what they stated in the February 15, 1956, issue of the Watchtower magazine, page 110, 27 years BEFORE the above Watchtower quote:
Let’s look at some of these verses in both the New World Translation (NWT, copyright 1961, 1981) and Greber’s “Bible”:
These following verses are “translated” in Greber’s “New Testament” in a manner very similar to the NWT. In each verse, the clear meaning of the original Greek has been changed to another meaning consistent with Greber’s theology and with the Watchtower’s theology—two theologies with much in common!John 1:1 – NWT: “In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.”
Greber’s “New Testament”: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God; and (v. 2) the Word was a god.”
Matthew 27:52, 53 – NWT: “And the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up. 53 (and persons, coming out coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy city,) and they became visible to many people.” [Why the Watchtower used Greber’s “New Testament” to bolster their own translation is beyond this writer’s understanding.]
Greber’s “New Testament”: “Tombs were laid open, and many bodies of those buried there were tossed upright. In this posture they projected from the graves and were seen by many who passed by the place on their way back to the city.”
Hebrews 1:8 – NWT: “But with reference to the Son: ‘God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.'”
Greber’s “New Testament“: “…Of His angels He says, ‘He makes the spirit-world His messengers, and flames of fire His servants.’ But of His son He says, ‘God is your throne for ever; …'”
https://www.witforjesus.org/downloads/english/articles/bible-study/know-the-truth-workbook-02-23.pdf
They made reference to him at least 7 times in various Watchtower publications from 1962 through 1976.
- 1932: Greber wrote his book where he gives his personal testimony as an occult spiritist: "Communication with the Spirit World of God--Its Laws and Purpose"
- 1937: Greber produces his Bible translation, upon which the New World Translation was based: "New Translation and Explanation by Greber"
- Before 1956: The Johannes Greber Memorial Foundation provided a photo-copy of a letter from the Watchtower Society acknowledging receipt before 1956, of several of his New Testaments, as well as Greber's book "Communication with the Spirit World of God."
- 1956: They published an article in the Watchtower of February 15, 1956 where they stated that Johannes Greber was involved with spirits: "Communication with the Spirit World: Its Laws and Its Purpose."... In keeping with his Roman Catholic extraction Greber's translation is bound with a gold-leaf cross on its stiff front cover. In the Foreward of his aforementioned book ex-priest Greber says: "The most significant spiritualistic book is the Bible." Under this impression Greber endeavors to make his New Testament translation read very spiritualistic...Greber's translation of these verses [1 John 4:1-3] reads: "My dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, to learn whether they come from God. For many false spirits have emerged from the abyss...and are speaking through human mediums ..." Very plainly the spirits in which ex-priest Greber believes helped him in his translation. (Watchtower 2/15/56 pg. 111)
- 1961: New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures: With absolute full knowledge of Greber's occult connection with the spirit world, they deliberately used his "translation" of the bible as a basis for their "NWT", in 1961.
- 1962: "Similar is the reading by a former Roman Catholic priest: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. (The Word-Who is He? -According to John, 1962, p5; quoting, The New Testament - A New Translation and Explanation...by Johannes Greber. Footnote at bottom of Watchtower booklet page: "The New Testament -- a New Translation and Explanation" Based on the Oldest Manuscripts, by Johannes Greber (a translation from German into English), edition of 1937, the front cover of this bound translation being stamped with a gold cross.")
- 1965: Johannes Greber translation referred to in "Make Sure of All Things Hold Fast to What is Fine " 1965 ed., page 489.
- 1971: "A translation by the former Roman Catholic priest Johannes Greber (1937 ed.) renders the second appearance of the word "god" in the sentence as "a god."" (Aid to Bible Understanding 1971, p 1669)
- 1971: "Tombs were laid open, and many bodies of those buried were tossed upright. In this posture they projected from the graves and were seen by many who passed by the place on their way back to the city." (Aid to Bible Understanding pg. 1134, quoting, The translation by Johannes Greber, 1937, in support of the Watchtower's translation of Matt 27:52, which is rendered to eliminate the reference to the resurrection of the dead which occurred at the time of the death of Jesus: )
- 1976: References to Greber's translation appears several times in the Watchtower, as late as 1976.
- After 1976 they never again used him as a reference source.
- 1983: They finally condemned him in 1983: On page 31 of the April 1, 1983 Watchtower magazine: "Why, in recent years, has The Watchtower not made use of the translation by the former Catholic priest, Johannes Greber? ... This translator relied on "God's Spirit World" to clarify for him how he should translate difficult passages. It is stated: "His wife, a medium of God's spirit world, was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God's Messengers to Pastor Greber. The Watchtower has deemed it improper to make use of a translation that has such a close rapport with spiritism (Deuteronomy 18:10-2)."
Remember, the Watchtower believes that the Holy Spirit communicates with the "governing body" in the production of the Watchtower magazine and the translation process of the NWT. Greber was making the identical claim that JW's make!
Prior to the introduction of this New Testament by Greber, we find the following statements about the man himself and his prayers for guidance in his translating task: "Prayers that were answered, and discrepancies clarified to him, by God's Spirit World. At times he was given the correct answers in large illuminated letters and words passing before his eyes. Other times he was given the correct answers during prayer meetings. His wife, a medium of God's Spirit World was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God's Messengers to Pastor Greber."
As we examine Johannes Greber's New Testament further we find constant references to God's holy spirits [plural], and it becomes more and more obvious that we are dealing with a man deep into spiritism. This, of course, is forbidden by God's word. Leviticus 19:31 says, "Do not turn to mediums or spiritualists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them".
We are told by Johannes Greber's foundation, "Late in the summer of 1923 God's holy spirits contacted Pastor Greber... In his spare time he started to work on his book "Communication with the Spirit World". Later he translated the New Testament with the help of God's spirit world."
The Johannes Greber Memorial Foundation provided a photo-copy of a letter from the Watchtower Society acknowledging receipt (before 1960) of not only several of his New Testaments, but also Greber's book "Communication with the Spirit World of God.". This is the irrefutable proof that the Watchtower fully knew that Greber was an occult spiritist. Why has the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's witness willingly and knowingly been in communication with a spiritistic society? Because the Watchtower believes that God communicates in a similar fashion with them!
It's true that in the April 1, 1983 Watchtower, page 31, under "Questions from the Readers", the Society claims that they found out from the 1980 Edition of the New Testament by Johannes Greber that he was involved with spiritism, and therefore they would not quote from his bible in the future. However, the facts are that the Watchtower Society knew, at least from 1956, that Johannes Greber was involved with demon spirits. They published an article in the Watchtower of February 15, 1956 where they stated that Johannes Greber was involved with demon spirits. With this knowledge, they deliberately used his "translation" of the bible as a basis for their "New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures", in 1961.
Prior to the introduction of this New Testament by Greber, we find the following statements about the man himself and his prayers for guidance in his translating task: "Prayers that were answered, and discrepancies clarified to him, by God's Spirit World. At times he was given the correct answers in large illuminated letters and words passing before his eyes. Other times he was given the correct answers during prayer meetings. His wife, a medium of God's Spirit World was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God's Messengers to Pastor Greber."
As we examine Johannes Greber's New Testament further we find constant references to God's holy spirits [plural], and it becomes more and more obvious that we are dealing with a man deep into spiritism. This, of course, is forbidden by God's word. Leviticus 19:31 says, "Do not turn to mediums or spiritualists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them".
We are told by Johannes Greber's foundation, "Late in the summer of 1923 God's holy spirits contacted Pastor Greber... In his spare time he started to work on his book "Communication with the Spirit World". Later he translated the New Testament with the help of God's spirit world."
The Johannes Greber Memorial Foundation provided a photo-copy of a letter from the Watchtower Society acknowledging receipt (before 1960) of not only several of his New Testaments, but also Greber's book "Communication with the Spirit World of God.". This is the irrefutable proof that the Watchtower fully knew that Greber was an occult spiritist. Why has the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's witness willingly and knowingly been in communication with a spiritistic society? Because the Watchtower believes that God communicates in a similar fashion with them!
It's true that in the April 1, 1983 Watchtower, page 31, under "Questions from the Readers", the Society claims that they found out from the 1980 Edition of the New Testament by Johannes Greber that he was involved with spiritism, and therefore they would not quote from his bible in the future. However, the facts are that the Watchtower Society knew, at least from 1956, that Johannes Greber was involved with demon spirits. They published an article in the Watchtower of February 15, 1956 where they stated that Johannes Greber was involved with demon spirits. With this knowledge, they deliberately used his "translation" of the bible as a basis for their "New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures", in 1961.
Remember, the Watchtower believes that the Holy Spirit communicates with the "governing body" in the production of the Watchtower magazine and the translation process of the NWT. Greber was making the identical claim that JW's make!
Prior to the introduction of this New Testament by Greber, we find the following statements about the man himself and his prayers for guidance in his translating task: "Prayers that were answered, and discrepancies clarified to him, by God's Spirit World. At times he was given the correct answers in large illuminated letters and words passing before his eyes. Other times he was given the correct answers during prayer meetings. His wife, a medium of God's Spirit World was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God's Messengers to Pastor Greber."
As we examine Johannes Greber's New Testament further we find constant references to God's holy spirits [plural], and it becomes more and more obvious that we are dealing with a man deep into spiritism. This, of course, is forbidden by God's word. Leviticus 19:31 says, "Do not turn to mediums or spiritualists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them".
We are told by Johannes Greber's foundation, "Late in the summer of 1923 God's holy spirits contacted Pastor Greber... In his spare time he started to work on his book "Communication with the Spirit World". Later he translated the New Testament with the help of God's spirit world."
The Johannes Greber Memorial Foundation provided a photo-copy of a letter from the Watchtower Society acknowledging receipt (before 1960) of not only several of his New Testaments, but also Greber's book "Communication with the Spirit World of God.". This is the irrefutable proof that the Watchtower fully knew that Greber was an occult spiritist. Why has the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's witness willingly and knowingly been in communication with a spiritistic society? Because the Watchtower believes that God communicates in a similar fashion with them!
It's true that in the April 1, 1983 Watchtower, page 31, under "Questions from the Readers", the Society claims that they found out from the 1980 Edition of the New Testament by Johannes Greber that he was involved with spiritism, and therefore they would not quote from his bible in the future. However, the facts are that the Watchtower Society knew, at least from 1956, that Johannes Greber was involved with demon spirits. They published an article in the Watchtower of February 15, 1956 where they stated that Johannes Greber was involved with demon spirits. With this knowledge, they deliberately used his "translation" of the bible as a basis for their "New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures", in 1961.
What the Watchtower knew about Johannes Greber before 1960:
Johannes Greber was a Catholic priest in Germany in the 1920's. In 1923, he was invited by one of his parishioners to a prayer meeting. Greber describes what he encountered there:
Click here to see similarities between Greber's experience and the occult!
The boy Greber describes was a medium, and the meeting was a seance. The spirit, speaking through the boy, answered several of Greber's questions, including one about why Christianity was no longer exerting an influence on people in his day:
"What captivated me most of all, and I might say, irresistibly, was the clear-cut reasoning and convincing logic of that to which I had listened for the first time in my life. Only the truth could exert so great an influence upon me, an influence from which I had not the power to withdraw, even had I been so inclined. ... In the end, I resolved to follow the directions I had received [from the spirit] , even though it meant the greatest personal sacrifice, the loss of my position and my means of support." (Johannes Greber, "Communication with the Spirit World of God--Its Laws and Purpose.)
Greber sought confirmation of the validity of the seance experience by seeking out other seances and mediums, where he heard many of the same "truths" proclaimed. Ultimately he relinquished his position as a Catholic priest, and wrote a book in 1932 entitled Communication with the Spirit World of God--Its Laws and Purpose, which detailed his journey into spiritism, and depicted the truths and principles of his new understanding of Christianity, revealed to him through his communication with the spirits. He also wrote a translation of the New Testament in 1933, aided by his communication with the spirit world. It was this work that the Watchtower Society used to support its own translation of selected verses in their New World Translation.
Johannes Greber was a Catholic priest in Germany in the 1920's. In 1923, he was invited by one of his parishioners to a prayer meeting. Greber describes what he encountered there:
- "Scarcely was the prayer ended when the boy fell over forward with a slump and an exhalation of breath so suddenly that I was startled...After a few seconds he was pushed upright in a series of jerks as though by an invisible hand, and remained sitting with his eyes closed." (Johannes Greber, "Communication with the Spirit World of God--Its Laws and Purpose.)
The boy Greber describes was a medium, and the meeting was a seance. The spirit, speaking through the boy, answered several of Greber's questions, including one about why Christianity was no longer exerting an influence on people in his day:
- "The teachings of Christ are no longer found in their original purity and clearness in those documents which have come down to you. In what is called the New Testament, several paragraphs, indeed entire chapters, have been omitted. What you have now are mutilated copies...Even the last letter of the Apostle Paul addressed to all Christian communities has been destroyed. In it he carefully explained those passages in his earlier writings that had given rise to misunderstanding. But his explanations were not in accord with many erroneous doctrines that had subsequently crept into the Christian faith." (Johannes Greber, "Communication with the Spirit World of God--Its Laws and Purpose.)
- "You are right to ask me who I am, for it is your first duty to test the spirits that speak to you and to assure yourself that they were sent by God ... I swear to you before God that I am one of His good spirits , indeed one of His highest spirits, but my name keep to yourself ... From the days of the first man down to the present, the spirit-world has communicated with mankind. That is true of both the good spirit-world and the bad. ... [T]he World of spirits, which is separated from you materially, has various ways of communicating with you by means perceptible to your senses ... [W]hen the Bible says: "God spoke", it was not God himself who spoke, because as a rule, God speaks only through his spirit-messengers." (Johannes Greber, "Communication with the Spirit World of God--Its Laws and Purpose.)
"What captivated me most of all, and I might say, irresistibly, was the clear-cut reasoning and convincing logic of that to which I had listened for the first time in my life. Only the truth could exert so great an influence upon me, an influence from which I had not the power to withdraw, even had I been so inclined. ... In the end, I resolved to follow the directions I had received [from the spirit] , even though it meant the greatest personal sacrifice, the loss of my position and my means of support." (Johannes Greber, "Communication with the Spirit World of God--Its Laws and Purpose.)
Greber sought confirmation of the validity of the seance experience by seeking out other seances and mediums, where he heard many of the same "truths" proclaimed. Ultimately he relinquished his position as a Catholic priest, and wrote a book in 1932 entitled Communication with the Spirit World of God--Its Laws and Purpose, which detailed his journey into spiritism, and depicted the truths and principles of his new understanding of Christianity, revealed to him through his communication with the spirits. He also wrote a translation of the New Testament in 1933, aided by his communication with the spirit world. It was this work that the Watchtower Society used to support its own translation of selected verses in their New World Translation.
Comparison of doctrines:
Doctrines revealed by demons to Greber COMPARED TO doctrines revealed to Jehovah's Witnesses through the "faithful and discrete servant". In fact, the Watchtower felt that the doctrines the spirit revealed to Greber, were true. Remember, the Watchtower believes that the Holy Spirit communicates with the "governing body" in the production of the Watchtower magazine and the translation process of the NWT. Greber was making the identical claim that JW's make!
The most difficult thing for JW's to accept is that a demon revealed to Greber, all the same doctrines that JW's believe! If this doesn't wake up the blind army of this demons door to door apostates, nothing will.
When Greber's spirit-channeled doctrines are compared with those of the Watchtower Society, the similarity is at once striking and troubling. Listed below is a comparison between these doctrines and those of the Jehovah's Witnesses. It is important to keep several things in mind as one reads these comparisons:
Doctrines revealed by demons to Greber COMPARED TO doctrines revealed to Jehovah's Witnesses through the "faithful and discrete servant". In fact, the Watchtower felt that the doctrines the spirit revealed to Greber, were true. Remember, the Watchtower believes that the Holy Spirit communicates with the "governing body" in the production of the Watchtower magazine and the translation process of the NWT. Greber was making the identical claim that JW's make!
The most difficult thing for JW's to accept is that a demon revealed to Greber, all the same doctrines that JW's believe! If this doesn't wake up the blind army of this demons door to door apostates, nothing will.
When Greber's spirit-channeled doctrines are compared with those of the Watchtower Society, the similarity is at once striking and troubling. Listed below is a comparison between these doctrines and those of the Jehovah's Witnesses. It is important to keep several things in mind as one reads these comparisons:
- First, these are not Greber's opinions or beliefs, but those of the spirits with whom Greber communicated.
- The Society accurately depicts the Bible's condemnation of such communication with spirits as contact with demons. Secondly, keep in mind that Greber was originally a Roman Catholic priest, and therefore held beliefs in harmony with those taught by all the major orthodox denominations of Christendom--beliefs which the Watchtower Society condemns as originating with Satan.
- It is worth considering why the demons with whom Greber communicated would want to "enlighten" him by teaching him doctrines which the "faithful and wise servant" of the Watchtower Society is now distributing as "meat in due season", i.e., Biblical truths taught by the anointed leaders of the Society.
Johannes Greber, "Communication with the Spirit World of God--Its Laws and Purpose. Revealed to him by demon spirits:
- It is worth considering why the demons with whom Greber communicated would want to "enlighten" him by teaching him doctrines which the "faithful and wise servant" of the Watchtower Society is now distributing as "meat in due season", i.e., Biblical truths taught by the anointed leaders of the Society.
| Doctrine | Johannes Greber, "Communication with the Spirit World of God--Its Laws and Purpose. Revealed to him by demon spirits: | Watchtower doctrines revealed by the "faithful and Wise servant" |
| God Has a Body | Material forms are images of spiritual forms, and since all material things have form and shape, so, too, have all spiritual things, and so, also, has God. ... Inasmuch, then, as God has a shape, He can be seen by the other spirits. (p. 260-61) | The bodies of spirit persons (God, Christ, the angels) are glorious. (Insight on the Scriptures p.348) |
| God Is Not Omnipresent | Inasmuch as God possesses shape and personality, He is not omnipresent ... as a personified spirit He is not everywhere. (p.261) | The true God is not omnipresent, for he is spoken of as having a location. (Insight on the Scriptures p.969) |
| God Is Not Omniscient | You have plenty of proof that I am a truthful spirit ... When I tell you that God has no foreknowledge of the voluntary actions of men, I am not detracting from His greatness. ... such unerring foreknowledge is possessed by no spirit, nor even by God Himself. (p. 263,265) | Jehovah has the ability to foreknow events, but the Bible shows that he makes selective and discretionary use of that ability ... (Reasoning from the Scriptures p.141) |
| Christ is God's First & Highest Creation | Christ is the highest of the spirits created by God and the sole one to be created directly. ... Christ Himself was not God, but only the first of God's sons. ... Christ is the highest spirit which the omnipotent God could create. Christ ... is the first created "son of God", and as such, His highest and most perfect Creature.(p. 301, 267) | Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God's first creation, his firstborn Son. (Insight on the Scriptures Vol. 2 p.52) ... This means that [Jesus] was created before all the other spirit sons of God, and that he is the only one who was directly created by God. (You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth p. 58) |
| Christ not divine | Christ was therefore the Son of God, and claimed to be nothing more. He was not the Deity. Not once did he say: "I am God." (p. 330) | Well, did Jesus ever say that he was God? No, he never did. Rather, in the Bible he is called "God's Son." (You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth p.39 |
| Christ is God's Agent in Creation, Not the Creator | Save for the first created Son of God, the entire spirit-world was brought into existence not by direct Divine creation ... but was called into being through the Son upon whom God had conferred creative power.(p.267-8) | The Son's share in the creative works did not make him a co-Creator with his Father. The power for creation came from God through his holy spirit... ((Insight on the Scriptures Vol. .2 p.52) |
| Scriptures That Show Christ Is Not God John 10:33 | You see how illogical it is for your [Greber's] former religion to base its contention of the Divinity of Christ upon the phrase: "I and the Father are one", in the face of the fact that the same oneness that exists between them is promised to all who believe. (p. 333) | This charge of blasphemy arose as a result of Jesus having said, "I and the Father are one." (Joh 10:30) ...this did not mean that Jesus claimed to be the Father or to be God... ((Insight on the Scriptures Vol. 2 p.54) |
| John 20:17 | After His resurrection, Christ said: "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.(John 20:17) (p. 364) | He taught men, not to worship him, but to worship Jehovah his Father ... "I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (Make Sure of All Things p.283) |
| Mt 24:36 | Again, nothing is known by the Son of the Day of Judgment, the knowledge of which is God's alone: "The day and the hour of fulfillment are known to no one, neither the angels of heaven, nor to the Son, but to my Father alone. (Matt 24:36) | Also, Jesus explained that there were some things that neither he nor the angels in heaven knew, but that only God knew (Mark 13:32) (You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth p. 39) |
| Christ Did Not Rise Bodily From The Dead | Not even of Christ was the natural body raised. (p.385) | Jesus Christ was spoken of as "the first resurrected from the dead."(Acts 26:23) This means he was the first to be resurrected of those who would not have to die again. Also, he was the first to be raised as a spirit person. (Paradise on Earth pg. 172) |
| Christ's Post-Resurrection Appearances Were Material-izations | Materialized in human form, Christ appeared to those who had been closest to Him in life ... The fact Christ after his death upon earth appeared to his followers in material form has led you to the erroneous conclusion that His spirit re-entered His former physical body. In reality He made Himself visible in the same manner in which all spirits do so, namely by materialization of his spiritual body. (p. 351, 387) | Jesus Christ ... his resurrection was "in the spirit," to life in heaven. .... However, for 40 days after his resurrection Jesus appeared to his disciples on different occasions in various fleshly bodies, just as angels had appeared to men of ancient times. ((Insight on the Scriptures Vol. 2 p.786) |
| Trinity is a Human Creation | You teach the union of three persons in one Godhead ... This is a piece of human fallacy and is an absurdity. (p.265) ... Christ taught a unipersonalist God ... He knows of no triune God of Whom the Catholic and other Christian denominations teach. Only the Father is God. (p. 364) | The reason the Bible does not clearly teach the Trinity doctrine is simple: It is not a Bible teaching. Had God been a Trinity, he would surely have made it clear so that Jesus and his disciples could have taught it to others. And that vital information would have been included in God's inspired Word. It would not have been left to imperfect men to struggle with centuries later. (Watchtower 11/1/91 p.23) |
| Hell | A doctrine to which you cling with astonishing tenacity ... is that of an "eternal Hell." ... This is a wholly mistaken, manmade idea. ... there is no authority in the bible to support your inhuman and untrue doctrine of an everlasting Hell. (p. 377, 379) | Did Almighty God create such a place of torment? ... If the idea of roasting people in fire had never come into God's heart, does it seem reasonable that he created a fiery hell for these who do not serve him? (Paradise on Earth p.81) |
Questions for Thoughtful Jehovah's Witnesses- Why would an organization that believes the Bible's warnings about mediums, seances, and spiritism use a translation written by a spiritist to support its own Bible translation ?
- Can doctrines put forth by demons be true?
- Why would demons try to convince Greber that his beliefs were wrong, and convert him to doctrines containing Jehovah's light and truth, when Greber's beliefs were those of apostate Christendom to begin with?
- Should you associate with an organization whose teachings agree with those taught by demons?
Johannes Greber and Watchtower's Involvement in Spiritism
Johannes Greber was known to use his spirit medium wife to translate the bible. Ricky Gonazales shows how his bible has supported Watchtower teachings.
avoidjw.org
Library : How The Watchtower Relied On A Spiritualist Bible Translation
How The Watchtower Relied On A Spiritualist Bible Translation In this article Father Mitch Pacwa points out the contradictions presented by defenders of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. One by one, he disassembles the claims made by the organization by demonstrating the truth of the...
www.catholicculture.org
No wonder JW's TWIST nearly every verse in the Bible to change the clear meanings!Johannes Greber and Watchtower's Involvement in Spiritism
Johannes Greber was known to use his spirit medium wife to translate the bible. Ricky Gonazales shows how his bible has supported Watchtower teachings.Library : How The Watchtower Relied On A Spiritualist Bible Translation
How The Watchtower Relied On A Spiritualist Bible Translation In this article Father Mitch Pacwa points out the contradictions presented by defenders of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. One by one, he disassembles the claims made by the organization by demonstrating the truth of the...
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