You're playing JW word games.
John 3
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
Question For JW's
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John 3
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The Last Adam is the Lord of Heaven. That, and this, hardly seem ambiguous to me.
:)
Before Abraham was, I am. That is . . . before Abraham did exist, I do exist. Only an eternal being can say that without lying.
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I have no problem admitting God's Anointed came from and went to heaven. Doesn't make him God.
"Prejudicial"? JW word games! God's Name is Jesus / Yeshua.
Isaiah 40
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness: "Prepare the way of the LORD; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God. Matthew 3
3 For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the LORD; Make His paths straight.' "
Jesus is God!
Typical JW EVASION!
John 3
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
JW doctrine: Evade, Twist, Smokescreen! And a few LIES like Barney threw in.
Google quotes watchtower authority
"
- The Watchtower Organization is God’s organization on earth.
- “It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose,” (1939 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses, p. 85).
- “Make haste to identify the visible theocratic organization of God that represents his king, Jesus Christ. It is essential for life. Doing so, be complete in accepting its every aspect,” (Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967, p. 591).
- “We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel of communication,” (Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967, p. 591).
- “No matter where we may live on earth, God’s Word continues to serve as a light to our path and a lamp to our roadway as to our conduct and beliefs. (Ps. 119:105) But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his “faithful and discreet slave,” made up of spirit anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do,” (Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1981, p. 27).
- The Watchtower Organization is the only way to understand the Bible.
- “Only this organization functions for Jehovah’s purpose and to his praise. To it alone God’s Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book,” (Watchtower, July 1, 1973, p. 402).
- “We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ organization,” (Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981).
- ” . . . people cannot see the Divine Plan in studying the Bible by itself . . . if he then lays them [Scripture Studies] aside and ignores them and goes to the bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the Scripture Studies with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures,” (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1910, p. 298).
- “Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible,” (Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967, p. 587).
- “The world is full of Bibles, which Book contains the commandments of God. Why, then, do the people not know which way to go? Because they do not also have the teaching or law of the mother, which is light. Jehovah God has provided his holy written Word for all mankind and it contains all the information that is needed for men in taking a course leading to life. But God has not arranged for that Word to speak independently or to shine forth life-giving truths by itself. His Word says: “Light is sown for the righteous.” (Ps. 97:11) It is through his organization that God provides this light that the proverb says is the teaching or law of the mother. If we are to walk in the light of truth we must recognize not only Jehovah God as our Father but his organization as our mother,” (Watchtower, May 1, 1957, p. 274).
- “Channel to understanding the Bible . . . All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the “greatly diversified wisdom of God” can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave,” (Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8).
- Individual thinking discouraged by Watchtower Organization.
- “From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah’s people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude…They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,’ they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom’s clergy were teaching 100 years ago . . . ” (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1981).
- “We should eat and digest and assimilate what is set before us, without shying away from parts of the food because it may not suit the fancy of our mental taste . . . We should meekly go along with the Lord’s theocratic organization and wait for further clarification, rather than balk at the first mention of a thought unpalatable to us and proceed to quibble and mouth our criticisms and opinions as though they were worth more than the slave’s provision of spiritual food. Theocratic ones will appreciate the Lord’s visible organization and not be so foolish as to put against Jehovah’s channel their own human reasoning and sentiment and personal feelings,” (Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1952, p. 79-80).
- “After being nourished to our present spiritual strength and maturity, do we suddenly become smarter than our former provider and forsake the enlightening guidance of the organization that mothers us? ‘Forsake not the law of thy mother’ (Prov. 6:20-23),” (Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1952, p. 80)."
Quotes Where Jehovah's Witnesses
claim "inspiration" - Part 2
1952 "Jehovah as the great interpreter makes known the meaning of his revelations in his due time, and speculation by men cannot bring to light the true meaning of prophecy before time. Jehovah has provided a channel, the faithful and discreet slave class, who are given spiritual food at the proper time, and this spiritual food includes among other things the understandings of the prophecies in the course of their fulfillments. (Matt. 24:45 NW) Jehovah's witnesses themselves are not nor can they be interpreters of prophecies. but as fast as the superior authorities Jehovah and Christ Jesus reveal the interpretations through their provided channel that fast do God's people publish them" (Watchtower, April 15, 1952, p. 253)
1952 "Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates (suppressives), even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship." (Watchtower, Nov 15, 1952 p703)
1952 "The agency which the Master uses to distribute or dispense his truth is called his 'faithful and discreet slave'. Matthew 24:45-47 says: 'Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.' (NW) This clearly shows that the Master would use one organization, and not a multitude of diverse and conflicting sects, to distribute his message. The 'faithful and discreet slave' is a company following the example of their Leader. That 'slave' is the remnant of Christ's spiritual brothers. God's prophet identifies these spiritual Israelites, saying: 'Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen.' Isaiah 43:10, AS; Yg. From and after A.D. 1918 this 'slave' class has proclaimed God's message to Christendom which still feeds on the religious traditions of men. The truth so proclaimed does a dividing work, as foretold, the ones accepting the truth being taken to the place of security, and the others abandoned. Those who have been favored to comprehend what is taking place, and who have taken their stand for Jehovah's Theocracy, have unspeakable joy now. The light of his truth is not confined to a small place; or one corner of the globe. Its proclamation is world-wide. In the thirty three years from 1919 to 1952 inclusive Jehovah's witnesses distributed more than half a billion bound books and booklets, hundreds of millions of magazines, tracts and leaflets, and delivered hundreds of millions of oral testimonies, in over 90 languages. Only by God's spirit and power could this witness have been given in the face of world-wide opposition and persecution; and the witness still continues and increases." (Let God Be True, 1952 editions pages 199-201.)
claim "inspiration" - Part 2
1952 "Jehovah as the great interpreter makes known the meaning of his revelations in his due time, and speculation by men cannot bring to light the true meaning of prophecy before time. Jehovah has provided a channel, the faithful and discreet slave class, who are given spiritual food at the proper time, and this spiritual food includes among other things the understandings of the prophecies in the course of their fulfillments. (Matt. 24:45 NW) Jehovah's witnesses themselves are not nor can they be interpreters of prophecies. but as fast as the superior authorities Jehovah and Christ Jesus reveal the interpretations through their provided channel that fast do God's people publish them" (Watchtower, April 15, 1952, p. 253)
1952 "Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates (suppressives), even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship." (Watchtower, Nov 15, 1952 p703)
1952 "The agency which the Master uses to distribute or dispense his truth is called his 'faithful and discreet slave'. Matthew 24:45-47 says: 'Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.' (NW) This clearly shows that the Master would use one organization, and not a multitude of diverse and conflicting sects, to distribute his message. The 'faithful and discreet slave' is a company following the example of their Leader. That 'slave' is the remnant of Christ's spiritual brothers. God's prophet identifies these spiritual Israelites, saying: 'Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen.' Isaiah 43:10, AS; Yg. From and after A.D. 1918 this 'slave' class has proclaimed God's message to Christendom which still feeds on the religious traditions of men. The truth so proclaimed does a dividing work, as foretold, the ones accepting the truth being taken to the place of security, and the others abandoned. Those who have been favored to comprehend what is taking place, and who have taken their stand for Jehovah's Theocracy, have unspeakable joy now. The light of his truth is not confined to a small place; or one corner of the globe. Its proclamation is world-wide. In the thirty three years from 1919 to 1952 inclusive Jehovah's witnesses distributed more than half a billion bound books and booklets, hundreds of millions of magazines, tracts and leaflets, and delivered hundreds of millions of oral testimonies, in over 90 languages. Only by God's spirit and power could this witness have been given in the face of world-wide opposition and persecution; and the witness still continues and increases." (Let God Be True, 1952 editions pages 199-201.)
Many more quotes at Quotes Where Jehovah's Witnesses claim "inspiration" - Part 2
current claims Watchtower quotes claiming to be guided by Holy Spirit and facts to prove it is not
Jehovah's Witnesses: Authority of the Watchtower Society or the Bible
Quotes Regarding the Watchtower Organization and Salvation
"
“17 But we are acting against Jehovah’s purpose if we do not obey the faithful and discreet slave or if we choose to obey only what we think is important. And if we act against Jehovah’s purpose, we cannot be his friends. In the next article, we will talk about some situations that give us the opportunity to show if we are obedient. The decisions we make in these situations will show if we have entered into God’s rest.” (SOURCE)
“We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval.” (SOURCE)
“By directing interested people to our official websites, we are connecting them with the one true source of spiritual food, “the faithful and discreet slave.” (SOURCE)"
JW.org Authority Quotes
current claims Watchtower quotes claiming to be guided by Holy Spirit and facts to prove it is not
Jehovah's Witnesses: Authority of the Watchtower Society or the Bible
Quotes Regarding the Watchtower Organization and Salvation
"
“17 But we are acting against Jehovah’s purpose if we do not obey the faithful and discreet slave or if we choose to obey only what we think is important. And if we act against Jehovah’s purpose, we cannot be his friends. In the next article, we will talk about some situations that give us the opportunity to show if we are obedient. The decisions we make in these situations will show if we have entered into God’s rest.” (SOURCE)
“We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval.” (SOURCE)
“By directing interested people to our official websites, we are connecting them with the one true source of spiritual food, “the faithful and discreet slave.” (SOURCE)"
JW.org Authority Quotes
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No concept of agency, whatsoever. When Isaiah said to prepare for the way of the LORD, why do you not conclude that he is God too? He also said I am the first and last.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Evasion? I agreed with the verse you posted. It's just that the verse does not say Jesus is God. If I come out of the White House, does that make me POTUS?
No, it doesn't, but then, you aren't called POTUS, while He is called the Lord of heaven. What does that title mean to you, the "Lord of heaven"?
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Lord does not mean LORD or God in Scripture. There are many lords. Jesus is another lord who was given authority by his God. Didn't you read 1 Corinthians 15:23-28?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
So you agree that Jesus was in Heaven and on Earth at the same time?
John 3
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
Yes Jesus is God.
"a Child is born"
"a Son"
"Mighty God"
Isaiah 9:6 (NKJV)
6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No. Your reading comprehension is not good. Try another translation, like NLT No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.
The verse is not claiming a man is in 2 places simultaneously.
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