Proof of Rapture before Tribulation

[Spiritual Israelite]

Such Wonderful conversations:

"you poor saps," totally ignorant of the NT, "total nonsense", most ridiculous arguments, "your teaching is a lie from the pits of hell," etc, "etc." etc.
"Many of its (pre-trib) main arguments are petty, ridiculous and nonsensical!"

Woud you like to see some of the things pre-tribs have said? You're a bit biased here, it seems. Those are criticisms of the doctrine. We have been called "Satan" and accused of being possessed by evil spirits and all kinds of nasty nonsense like that. But, you don't care about that, of course.

Sounds to me like "the gates of hell Are prevailing" not only with pre-trib rapture, but even the basics of "saved by Grace" NO, saved by works, ONE baptism OR MANY baptisms, etc. etc. etc.

What does The LORD God Really Think Of all this?

Amen.

I believe He thinks that pre-trib dispensationalism is a doctrine of demons and a total joke because it's not taught in His word anywhere.

 

[Jack]

I didn't smokescreen you.

Why do you not quote or address God's Book? Are you sacred of it? Do you not know it? Does it expose what you have been taught?

Your avoidance exposes what you promote.

I refer you back to my post that forbids your opinions.

I LOVE God's Book!

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[Jack]

That's right. I'm not. And I never claimed to be. Any other straw man arguments you want to make?

No, it's perfectly clear. You choose to be like these:

Zechariah 14:12
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

 

[Jack]

In Galatians 6:15, Paul declares that in Christ Jesus, circumcision and uncircumcision no longer avail anything.

What is your understanding of Galatians 6:15?

It clearly teaches us that YOU aren't Israel!

 

[Atarah]

You apparently didn't read my post at all. No, my position is NOT "that we don't become one new man", my position is that the blood of Christ already made us (Jew and Gentile believers) into one new man long ago, as Paul said. Did you not read this:

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

This says Jesus "hath MADE both one". It says He "abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man". He has reconciled "both unto God in one body by the cross". Jew and Gentile believers are now "fellowcitizens" in the church that is "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone". Why are you acting as if this hasn't happened yet when scripture says it has?

So what then is the 'new man' that we become, 'Spiritual Israelite?' Look more like a 'refurbished' man. What was Adam, an Israelite, a Jew, a Gentile? or a new man?
Are you as a Spiritual Israelite Torah compliant?

 

[Atarah]

Paul's writing clearly reveals the rapture, or 'caught up' event. The debate on when it will happen could be settled if we determine why it is necessary. So why do you think believers must be removed from the scene for a time?

 

[Atarah]

You combined the OT with the NT which is NOT what i posted to you.

The Purpose of the OT was/is to bring us to MESSIAH = Galatians 3:21-25

Under the OT, God gave a covenant to His people UNDER the Passover lamb which Began with Moses in Egypt.

This OT passover of the blood of a lamb is PROPHECY of the TRUE LAMB of God which takes away the sins of the world.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”

Does the New Covenant replace or nullify the Old, or is it a New one for a different people group and runs parallel to the Old?

 

[David in NJ]

Does the New Covenant replace or nullify the Old, or is it a New one for a different people group and runs parallel to the Old?

The NEW Covenant nullifies the Old = Jeremiah 31:31-34

“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 CONFIRMED = Hebrews 8:7-13

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete.
Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

The NEW Covenant is for the Jew, the Gentile and for EVERYONE who Believes
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life.​

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, it's perfectly clear. You choose to be like these:

Zechariah 14:12
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

So, you think I'm not saved and will have God's wrath come down on me. How nice. May God have mercy on your soul for condemning me like this.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Does the New Covenant replace or nullify the Old, or is it a New one for a different people group and runs parallel to the Old?

The better new covenant replaced the faulty old covenant, as scripture says.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So what then is the 'new man' that we become, 'Spiritual Israelite?' Look more like a 'refurbished' man. What was Adam, an Israelite, a Jew, a Gentile? or a new man?
Are you as a Spiritual Israelite Torah compliant?

The new man we have become, Atarah, is the one body of Jew and Gentile believers united by the blood of Jesus Christ. Otherwise known as the temple of God or the church. Do you not agree with what it says in Ephesians 2:11-22? Or is Judaism a more appealing religion to you than Christianity?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Paul's writing clearly reveals the rapture, or 'caught up' event. The debate on when it will happen could be settled if we determine why it is necessary. So why do you think believers must be removed from the scene for a time?

Precious friend (same age as me), appreciate the 'kind' statement - doesn't seem to be too much encouragement around here:

1) I believe "The Dispensation Of Grace" is a temporary ( parenthetical ) Age of God Revealed As His Mystery.

2) I believe it must { be Necessary to } End With God 'removing' all of His Saved ambassadors, Before Declaring War and Judgment
on an Unbelieving world.

3) I see The Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided Between God's Two Different Programs, showing the rapture of His Grace Church
( Mystery } as a Separate And Distinct Event from His Prophetic Event of His Second ( Prophesied ) Coming - ie:

God's Great GRACE Departure!

Please Be Very Richly Encouraged In Christ And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided.

Amen.

 

[WPM]

I LOVE God's Book!

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Good! Where is your 7 years trib (or any trib) following this?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Since when???

Such Wonderful conversations:

"you poor saps," totally ignorant of the NT, "total nonsense", most ridiculous arguments, "your teaching is a lie from the pits of hell," etc, "etc." etc.
"Many of its (pre-trib) main arguments are petty, ridiculous and nonsensical!"

Sounds to me like "the gates of hell Are prevailing" not only with pre-trib rapture, but even the basics of "saved by Grace" NO, saved by works, ONE baptism OR MANY baptisms, etc. etc. etc.

What does The LORD God Really Think Of all this?

Amen.

Maybe add something meaningful?
Contribute something?

 

[Jack]

So, you think I'm not saved and will have God's wrath come down on me. How nice. May God have mercy on your soul for condemning me like this.

I think those who try to STEAL Israel's identity are heading for eternity in Hell Fire!

Good! Where is your 7 years trib (or any trib) following this?

I don't worry about that. I just want to be ready for what is dead ahead.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I think those who try to STEAL Israel's identity are heading for eternity in Hell Fire!

I think those who unjustly and wickedly condemn others to hell the way you do are in danger of eternity in the lake of fire. That should concern you. No one is trying to steal national Israel's identity, so that is a false claim. Scripture speaks of two different Israels, not one, and the one does not steal the identity of the other. The difference between the two is described here:

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

This passage indicates that national Israel is made up of those who are Abraham's physical descendants. Physical descendants of the nation of Israel. Spiritual Israel is made up of those who are Abraham's spiritual descendants which are the children of God and of the promise.

So, the following describes those who are part of Spiritual Israel because it describes who are the children of God and of the promise:

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[WPM]

I think those who try to STEAL Israel's identity are heading for eternity in Hell Fire!

I don't worry about that. I just want to be ready for what is dead ahead.

Exactly, you have nothing. All you have is running off your mouth with insults.

 

[Jack]

I think those who unjustly and wickedly condemn others to hell the way you do are in danger of eternity in the lake of fire. That should concern you. No one is trying to steal national Israel's identity, so that is a false claim. Scripture speaks of two different Israels, not one, and the one does not steal the identity of the other. The difference between the two is described here:

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

This passage indicates that national Israel is made up of those who are Abraham's physical descendants. Physical descendants of the nation of Israel. Spiritual Israel is made up of those who are Abraham's spiritual descendants which are the children of God and of the promise.

So, the following describes those who are part of Spiritual Israel because it describes who are the children of God and of the promise:

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I'm not trying to STEAL Israel's identity. Look in your mirror, wannabee!

 

[Jack]

Exactly, you have nothing. All you have is running off your mouth with insults.

The Bible insults you? You have my SYMPATHY!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm not trying to STEAL Israel's identity. Look in your mirror, wannabee!

Neither am I, liar. Read post #1,416 and learn something so that you stop slandering me.