Pre-Trib Dispensationalism IS False

[The Light]

Ok
1) you do no include and do not understand first fruits.( 144 JEWISH FIRSTFRUITS)

I know exactly what first fruits are, but have no idea what prompts you to make this statement. First fruits are first fruits of a harvest. The first fruits are remove from the field first and the main harvest comes separately.

You are not aware that we would have to have a JEWISH MAIN HARVEST?????

We are going to have a Jewish main harvest at the 6th seal. It will be the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth. But not the woman, Israel as the remnant is in a place of protection.

How can so many not actually read Rev 14??????

What are you talking about?

2) Rev 14 IN NO WAY fits you " all the tribes shall mourn, and Jesus coming in great glory.
Have you actually read Rev 14?

All tribes will mourn when they see Jesus come in great power and glory at the 6th seal which is what you are seeing in Revelation 14. Why are they mourning? They are mourning because they see Jesus and realize that they are going to be cast into the wrath of God

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

We can also see they will be cast into the wrath of God in Revelation 6

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The wrath of God is the 7th seal, one year, Day of the Lord which contains both the trumpets and vials.

Jesus sits on a cloud with a sickle.
You turned it into Jesus coming on horses in warrior mode.( Rev 19)
In no way does that even begin to fit.

No. You are misunderstanding what I am saying, because you are misunderstanding scripture.

I am saying that the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. This is the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. This is NOT the second Advent when Jesus sets His feet on the mount of Olives after Armageddon. When Jesus comes at the 6th seal, which is Revelation 14. which is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24, He comes for the second harvest, the fall fruit harvest. They are part of the great multitude seen in Revelation 7, that comes out of great tribulation. Then wrath begins

Do not let this verse mislead you...........................
Revelation 14
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

You need to understand what you are reading. The unrighteous mourn because they are going to be cast into the wrath of God. When the winepress is trodden it is not until......................here.

Revelation 16
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Look, you do not understand the Jewish gathering at all.
Romans 9 10 11.

How do even conclude this? It is the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman that are raptured at the main harvest, at the 6th seal. The Church is already in heaven.........before the tribulation..........which happens in the middle of the week.

The remnant of Israel, the woman, who flees to a place of protection remains on the earth during the wrath of God.

Isiah 26
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

The verses mean that the rapture could take place before the great falling away takes place

It actually says that day happens AFTER the falling away,

the rapture must take place before the Antichrist reveals himself as the man of sin

It actually says that day happens AFTER the man of sin is revealed!

Some folk don't let what God's Word says to get in the way of what they believe

Any belief of a rapture removal to heaven, is false and cannot happen.

That's what those that don't know God's Word very well keep saying

Hey, look everybody, another prophecy thread, woohoo.

It's on like Donkee Kong!

 

[Keraz]

That's what those that don't know God's Word very well keep saying

You mean these Words?
Jesus said:
1/ John 3:13 No one has gone up into heaven, except the One who came down from heaven, the Son of Man.
Jesus is talking about the things of heaven, truths that apply forever.

2/ Revelation 2-3 Those who are victorious over Satan and who persevere until the end, will receive the crown of Life.
They are the people seen in Revelation 6:9-14. On earth, as proved by the first 3 verses of Revelation 7.

3/ John 7:33-34…I am going away to Him who sent Me and where I go, you cannot come.
A plain statement that also applies forever.

4/ John 8:21-23 Again He said: Where I go, you cannot come. You belong to this world below, I to the world above….
Our home is the earth, we are earth people and not spirits and even after the Millennium, those worthy will become immortal, but will still remain on earth. Revelation 21:1-4

5/ John 17:15 I do not pray that You take My people out of this world, but to keep them from the evil one.
Jesus was talking to God and what He asked applies to all Christians. Remember: we pray for God’s Kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven and it will, with the New Jerusalem.

6/ Revelation 5:10 You have made them priests for our God and they shall reign on earth.
This refers to every faithful Christian, people from every tribe, race, nation and language, they shall reign on earth. That is our destiny, we never go to heaven, only our souls sleep under the Altar, if we are martyred. Revelation 6:9-11
That they can cry out at times, does not mean they are alive.

All scripture is as Written in the Revised English Bible.

 

[Douggg]

It actually says that day happens AFTER the falling away,

It is the day of Christ that begins after the falling away.

2Thessalonians2:1-2 contains two subjects.

1. the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ - and our gathering to Him - i.e. the rapture.
2. the troubling effect of rumors that of the day of Christ, i.e. the day of Lord, had begun already.

The day of the Lord, Paul had expressed in 1Thesslaonians5 is when God's wrath will be poured out, which is why it would be troubling. However, in 1Thessalonians5:9-11, Paul said that Christians are not appointed to God's wrath, to be poured out when the day of the Lord begins, but instead....

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. [i.e. the rapture/resurrection event]

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Later, when Paul wrote 2Thessalonians2, rumors had been circulating that the day of the Lord had begun already - yet the rapture had not happened. So the Thessalonians were very concerned.

So Paul said don't be concerned by those rumors (2Thessalonians2:2), because the beginning of the day of the Lord would not happen until...

1. the falling away take place.
2. the man of sin be revealed by the act described in 2Thessalonians2:4.

The rapture/resurrection event will happen before the revealing of the man of sin act of 2Thessalonians2:4. Stage 4 of the little horn person.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

It is the day of Christ that begins after the falling away.

If the Day of the Lord happens right after the rapture... then there is no 3 year reign of the anti-christ so yer timeline is messed up.

The rapture/resurrection event will happen before the revealing of the man of sin

Wrong yet again... That's not what 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 actually says.

1/ John 3:13 No one has gone up into heaven, except the One who came down from heaven

That was true at the time Jesus said that... later when Jesus rose from the dead and took captivity captive (Ephesians 4:7-9
) ... people are actually in Heaven now, and then Paul said to be absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord (Corinthians 5:8) so after Jesus went to the Cross and ascended to Heaven... those that die in the Lord go to be with Him while their body is "asleep" in the grave back here on earth to be reunited later as our bodies are resurrected and glorified

6/ Revelation 5:10 You have made them priests for our God and they shall reign on earth.
This refers to every faithful Christian, people from every tribe, race, nation and language, they shall reign on earth. That is our destiny, we never go to heaven

Nope, that's when the Lord returns with His Saints and we all have glorified bodies.

 

[Douggg]

If the Day of the Lord happens right after the rapture... then there is no 3 year reign of the anti-christ so yer timeline is messed up.

The rapture will take place "sometime" before the day of the Lord begins. "sometime" could be one day before or many years before. We don't know the exact day, nor hour. Anytime between right now and Stage 4.

The rapture could happen as pre-trib (pre-70th week) claims. Or it may not. But it has to happen before Stage 4.

The timeline of the 5 stages of the little horn is correct.

 

[Douggg]

@Dan Clarkston

Part of the confusion that has been generated by the term "pre-trib" began when the early advocates of that view stated that the entire 70th week of Daniel 9-27 is "tribulation".

Which is not correct, as for the most part of the first half of the 70th week will not be tribulation - but a false messianic age with people saying "peace and safety" during that time.

The pre-trib view should actually be thought of as the pre-70th week view.

 

[The Light]

"""Additionally...........the woman, Israel, that has fled to a place of protection prepared for her will be on earth during the wrath of God. But they won't experience wrath"""

Again you do not understand
Trib
Wrath

The tribulation is the tribulation of those days which includes the great tribulation. Wrath is the one year, seventh seal, Day of the Lord.

Cut and dried, that's it.

The woman ushered to safety is during the first part of the trib

If you mean the first part of the tribulation when the AOD is set up........ok. As long as you understand that the tribulation is not 7 years long

Rev 14 deals with the woman before thecwrath.

Revelation deals with THE SEED of the woman which are the twelve tribes across the earth. The woman, those who flee, go to a place of protection and remain on earth during the wrath of God.

Because you do not understand Rev 14, you are getting stuff wrong.

I understand that the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 occurs at the 6th seal and it is the coming of Jesus of Matthew 24 IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION and before the 7th seal wrath of God.

 

[The Light]

1 wrath ALWAYS HAS TRIBULATION.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.

The Word is talking about the tribulation of those days which is over with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal as proven by Matthew 24. Wrath is the 7th seal.

SEE this is how we know you are confusing trib and wrath.

You THINK the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs after Armageddon. Whereas I KNOW the coming of Jesus occurs at the 6th seal and is seen additionally in Revelation 14.'

We can be 100% sure this is correct because of the TIMESTAMP of the signs of the sun, moon and stars. Can you see the signs of the sun, moon and stars in Matthew 24?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Can you see the signs of the sun, moon and stars at the 6th seal?

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

A light should go on..............The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal.

Secondly.............It occurs immediately after the tribulation of those days................THE TRIBULATION IS OVER AT THE 6TH SEAL.

Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

This is simple logic. I don't know how to make it any clearer. The tribulation of those days is not the wrath of God.

There was no reason for Jesus to consult anyone on if he could call the 7 yr tribulation something else.

Please provide a scripture where Jesus says that the tribulation is 7 years long

Jesus had no reason to make it fit your doctrine.

The Word is my doctrine. If you can prove what I'm saying is wrong with scripture, I will change what I believe. But I don't think that will happen. You believe all the things that have been taught all these years........such as the tribulation and wrath are the same thing. I have used scripture to disprove this. Why you can't see it when I continually use scripture to show you, I don't understand.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. There is no question. Stop believing what is taught and look at the scripture. Everything fits together perfectly when you put things where scripture says they go.

Matt 24 is in fact the coming on white horses.

The signs of the sun, moon and stars are put in Matthew 24 so we have a timestamp that shows the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th. Until you put things where scripture says they go, you will not understand. Once you put the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 at the 6th seal it is going to mess up your timeline. It won't make sense because you have forced another error because of the error in the place of the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24.

Fix what is 100% accurate based on the Word of God and then figure out your other error.

Your verse DECLARES a warrior coming in judgement.
You torture it to fit something else.

I put it where it goes based on the Word of God. You think Jesus is coming on white horses in Matthew 24. I see no white horses, I see no Armageddon. I see the signs of the sun, moon and stars that tell us that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal.

You have Jesus on a cloud holding a sickle transposed onto Jesus on millions of horses coming in war and judgement.

I have Jesus coming for a harvest in Revelation 14 just as the Word says.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The righteous are reaped and the wicked remain on the earth for the wrath of God................immediately after the tribulation of those days.

Totally off my friend.
You need to go back and see that deal in NO WAY fits.

It fits perfectly. How could it not fit. We have a timestamp telling us where the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 fits. I don't care what has been taught for years. It's wrong. They haven't even figured out there are two raptures........grain and fruit.

 

[Davy]

That's not the rapture.,.. that's His second coming

Two different events

When you quote, you should quote the whole... sentence, and not just chopped pieces, which means you intend to take what someone says out of context. I'm sorry that the preachers you likely listen to do that on purpose all the time, but that is one of their tools to deceive.

Yet I realize what doctrine of men you are pointing to with that false idea that the rapture is not the second coming. That's the false Pre-trib Rapture theory of men, which is nowhere written in God's Word.

Lord Jesus Christ was emphatic that His future return will be AFTER... the great tribulation, as written per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27. That is His final SIGN that He gave the Church to 'watch' for like He showed in His Olivet discourse. Thus Christ's 2nd coming IS... when the events of 1 Thessalonians 4 will happen.

Where do you think Apostle Paul got the 1 Thess.4:13-17 events from? He got it from Lord Jesus, as those Matt.24 and Mark 13 Scriptures I referred to point to Jesus' future return to gather the TWO GROUPS of 1 Thess.4:

1st Group -- the "asleep" saints Paul said Jesus brings with Him from Heaven; parallel to Matthew 24:31.

2nd Group - saints still alive on earth when Jesus comes, "caught up" to Jesus (i.e., raptured), both groups joined together with Jesus in the "air"; parallel to Mark 13:27.

And ESPECIALLY... 1 Thess.4:16 which reveals that the "asleep" saints MUST BE RESURRECTED FIRST! That means those 1 Thess.4:13-17 events will ONLY happen on the LAST DAY of this present world when the future resurrection happens!

John 6:40
40 And this is the will of Him That sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
KJV

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Word is talking about the tribulation of those days which is over with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal as proven by Matthew 24. Wrath is the 7th seal.


You THINK the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs after Armageddon. Whereas I KNOW the coming of Jesus occurs at the 6th seal and is seen additionally in Revelation 14.'

We can be 100% sure this is correct because of the TIMESTAMP of the signs of the sun, moon and stars. Can you see the signs of the sun, moon and stars in Matthew 24?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Can you see the signs of the sun, moon and stars at the 6th seal?

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

A light should go on..............The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal.

Secondly.............It occurs immediately after the tribulation of those days................THE TRIBULATION IS OVER AT THE 6TH SEAL.

Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

This is simple logic. I don't know how to make it any clearer. The tribulation of those days is not the wrath of God.



Please provide a scripture where Jesus says that the tribulation is 7 years long

The Word is my doctrine. If you can prove what I'm saying is wrong with scripture, I will change what I believe. But I don't think that will happen. You believe all the things that have been taught all these years........such as the tribulation and wrath are the same thing. I have used scripture to disprove this. Why you can't see it when I continually use scripture to show you, I don't understand.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. There is no question. Stop believing what is taught and look at the scripture. Everything fits together perfectly when you put things where scripture says they go.


The signs of the sun, moon and stars are put in Matthew 24 so we have a timestamp that shows the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th. Until you put things where scripture says they go, you will not understand. Once you put the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 at the 6th seal it is going to mess up your timeline. It won't make sense because you have forced another error because of the error in the place of the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24.

Fix what is 100% accurate based on the Word of God and then figure out your other error.


I put it where it goes based on the Word of God. You think Jesus is coming on white horses in Matthew 24. I see no white horses, I see no Armageddon. I see the signs of the sun, moon and stars that tell us that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal.


I have Jesus coming for a harvest in Revelation 14 just as the Word says.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The righteous are reaped and the wicked remain on the earth for the wrath of God................immediately after the tribulation of those days.


It fits perfectly. How could it not fit. We have a timestamp telling us where the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 fits. I don't care what has been taught for years. It's wrong. They haven't even figured out there are two raptures........grain and fruit.

Quote: "once you put the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 at the 6th seal it is going to mess up your timeline. It won't make sense because you have forced another error because of the error in the place of the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24."

One you understand Jesus coming on white horses mid trib( or prewrath as you modern people insist) on white horses is impossible, then not only is your timeline messed up, but half your eschatology.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Word is talking about the tribulation of those days which is over with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal as proven by Matthew 24. Wrath is the 7th seal.


You THINK the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs after Armageddon. Whereas I KNOW the coming of Jesus occurs at the 6th seal and is seen additionally in Revelation 14.'

We can be 100% sure this is correct because of the TIMESTAMP of the signs of the sun, moon and stars. Can you see the signs of the sun, moon and stars in Matthew 24?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Can you see the signs of the sun, moon and stars at the 6th seal?

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

A light should go on..............The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal.

Secondly.............It occurs immediately after the tribulation of those days................THE TRIBULATION IS OVER AT THE 6TH SEAL.

Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

This is simple logic. I don't know how to make it any clearer. The tribulation of those days is not the wrath of God.



Please provide a scripture where Jesus says that the tribulation is 7 years long

The Word is my doctrine. If you can prove what I'm saying is wrong with scripture, I will change what I believe. But I don't think that will happen. You believe all the things that have been taught all these years........such as the tribulation and wrath are the same thing. I have used scripture to disprove this. Why you can't see it when I continually use scripture to show you, I don't understand.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. There is no question. Stop believing what is taught and look at the scripture. Everything fits together perfectly when you put things where scripture says they go.


The signs of the sun, moon and stars are put in Matthew 24 so we have a timestamp that shows the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th. Until you put things where scripture says they go, you will not understand. Once you put the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 at the 6th seal it is going to mess up your timeline. It won't make sense because you have forced another error because of the error in the place of the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24.

Fix what is 100% accurate based on the Word of God and then figure out your other error.


I put it where it goes based on the Word of God. You think Jesus is coming on white horses in Matthew 24. I see no white horses, I see no Armageddon. I see the signs of the sun, moon and stars that tell us that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal.


I have Jesus coming for a harvest in Revelation 14 just as the Word says.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The righteous are reaped and the wicked remain on the earth for the wrath of God................immediately after the tribulation of those days.


It fits perfectly. How could it not fit. We have a timestamp telling us where the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 fits. I don't care what has been taught for years. It's wrong. They haven't even figured out there are two raptures........grain and fruit.

We agree the 2 raptures.
The white horses before the wrath thingy is impossible.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Word is talking about the tribulation of those days which is over with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal as proven by Matthew 24. Wrath is the 7th seal.


You THINK the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs after Armageddon. Whereas I KNOW the coming of Jesus occurs at the 6th seal and is seen additionally in Revelation 14.'

We can be 100% sure this is correct because of the TIMESTAMP of the signs of the sun, moon and stars. Can you see the signs of the sun, moon and stars in Matthew 24?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Can you see the signs of the sun, moon and stars at the 6th seal?

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

A light should go on..............The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal.

Secondly.............It occurs immediately after the tribulation of those days................THE TRIBULATION IS OVER AT THE 6TH SEAL.

Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

This is simple logic. I don't know how to make it any clearer. The tribulation of those days is not the wrath of God.



Please provide a scripture where Jesus says that the tribulation is 7 years long

The Word is my doctrine. If you can prove what I'm saying is wrong with scripture, I will change what I believe. But I don't think that will happen. You believe all the things that have been taught all these years........such as the tribulation and wrath are the same thing. I have used scripture to disprove this. Why you can't see it when I continually use scripture to show you, I don't understand.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. There is no question. Stop believing what is taught and look at the scripture. Everything fits together perfectly when you put things where scripture says they go.


The signs of the sun, moon and stars are put in Matthew 24 so we have a timestamp that shows the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th. Until you put things where scripture says they go, you will not understand. Once you put the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 at the 6th seal it is going to mess up your timeline. It won't make sense because you have forced another error because of the error in the place of the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24.

Fix what is 100% accurate based on the Word of God and then figure out your other error.


I put it where it goes based on the Word of God. You think Jesus is coming on white horses in Matthew 24. I see no white horses, I see no Armageddon. I see the signs of the sun, moon and stars that tell us that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal.


I have Jesus coming for a harvest in Revelation 14 just as the Word says.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The righteous are reaped and the wicked remain on the earth for the wrath of God................immediately after the tribulation of those days.


It fits perfectly. How could it not fit. We have a timestamp telling us where the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 fits. I don't care what has been taught for years. It's wrong. They haven't even figured out there are two raptures........grain and fruit.

QUOTE
"what is 100% accurate based on the Word of God and then figure out your other error."

POT <> KETTLE BIG TIME

THE ONLY PLACE JESUS RETURNS IN POWER AND A WARRIOR IS REV 19.
YOU HAVE REV 19 AND THE AC DESTROYED PREWRATH

WAY, WAY OFF
ALL because you can not discern Matt24 is indeed Rev 19 the coming on white horses.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I know exactly what first fruits are, but have no idea what prompts you to make this statement. First fruits are first fruits of a harvest. The first fruits are remove from the field first and the main harvest comes separately.


We are going to have a Jewish main harvest at the 6th seal. It will be the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth. But not the woman, Israel as the remnant is in a place of protection.


What are you talking about?


All tribes will mourn when they see Jesus come in great power and glory at the 6th seal which is what you are seeing in Revelation 14. Why are they mourning? They are mourning because they see Jesus and realize that they are going to be cast into the wrath of God

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

We can also see they will be cast into the wrath of God in Revelation 6

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The wrath of God is the 7th seal, one year, Day of the Lord which contains both the trumpets and vials.


No. You are misunderstanding what I am saying, because you are misunderstanding scripture.

I am saying that the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. This is the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. This is NOT the second Advent when Jesus sets His feet on the mount of Olives after Armageddon. When Jesus comes at the 6th seal, which is Revelation 14. which is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24, He comes for the second harvest, the fall fruit harvest. They are part of the great multitude seen in Revelation 7, that comes out of great tribulation. Then wrath begins

Do not let this verse mislead you...........................
Revelation 14
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

You need to understand what you are reading. The unrighteous mourn because they are going to be cast into the wrath of God. When the winepress is trodden it is not until......................here.

Revelation 16
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

How do even conclude this? It is the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman that are raptured at the main harvest, at the 6th seal. The Church is already in heaven.........before the tribulation..........which happens in the middle of the week.

The remnant of Israel, the woman, who flees to a place of protection remains on the earth during the wrath of God.

Isiah 26
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Wow.
Way off.
You have transposed Jesus coming in power on white horses onto Jesus sitting on a cloud holding a sickle.
Your deal is impossible.

Jesus comes on white horses.
Destroys the ac and his army.

Hello...the ac is in power during the wrath.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Quote by light
"They do not overlap. Scripture clearly says immediately after the tribulation Christ will come and then the wrath of God will begin"

Way way off.
Read this.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

See that????
You have the ac thrown into the lake of fire before the wrath is over.

The lof is AFTER THE WRATH.
OOOOPS

You pulled that mid trib ( pre wrath ..roll eyes) second coming out of thin air friend

 

[The Light]

We agree the 2 raptures.
The white horses before the wrath thingy is impossible.

You are confusing what I am saying or I have made an error in what I am saying. I'll try again.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24, is the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14. It is a harvest, the second rapture. This event occurs at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God, as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. It is the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. All believers go to heaven for the marriage supper. Then the 7th seal is opened and the Day of the Lord, the wrath of God begins.

This has nothing to do with returning on white horses which we see in Revelation 19 AFTER the marriage supper. The white horses event occurs toward the end of wrath at the 6th vial which occurs in the 7th seal. The seventh trumpet sounds, and the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. Jesus has set up His kingdom on the earth and has already touched the Mount of Olives...........the Second Advent.

So, the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is a harvest and is not the coming of Jesus on white horses.

 

[The Light]

Quote by light
"They do not overlap. Scripture clearly says immediately after the tribulation Christ will come and then the wrath of God will begin"

Way way off.
Read this.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

See that????
You have the ac thrown into the lake of fire before the wrath is over.

The lof is AFTER THE WRATH.
OOOOPS

You pulled that mid trib ( pre wrath ..roll eyes) second coming out of thin air friend

You are way discombobulating what I am saying. This is not at all what I am saying. You are drawing an incorrect conclusion of what I have said

 

[The Light]

Wow.
Way off.
You have transposed Jesus coming in power on white horses onto Jesus sitting on a cloud holding a sickle.
Your deal is impossible.

Jesus comes on white horses.
Destroys the ac and his army.

Hello...the ac is in power during the wrath.

Where are you getting this stuff?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I know Jesus comes on white horses and destroys AC and his army. That is Revelation 19 which happens at the 6th vial.

I don't know what you mean when you say I have transposed Jesus coming in power on white horses onto Jesus sitting on a cloud holding a sickle.

This is NOT the same event. The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14. It is a harvest that occurs at the 6th seal. It has nothing to do white Jesus coming on white horses.

You think Matthew 24 is the white horse's event. It is not. We have proof that Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal and not at the 6th vial.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where are you getting this stuff?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I know Jesus comes on white horses and destroys AC and his army. That is Revelation 19 which happens at the 6th vial.

I don't know what you mean when you say I have transposed Jesus coming in power on white horses onto Jesus sitting on a cloud holding a sickle.

This is NOT the same event. The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus in Revelation 14. It is a harvest that occurs at the 6th seal. It has nothing to do white Jesus coming on white horses.

You think Matthew 24 is the white horse's event. It is not. We have proof that Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal and not at the 6th vial.

You just placed the LOF at the 6th seal.

Huh?????

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are way discombobulating what I am saying. This is not at all what I am saying. You are drawing an incorrect conclusion of what I have said

Nope
You are claiming the white horses at the 6th seal.
Ahem....which has the ac thrown into the lof
IOW you have the lof at the 6th seal

Way off