Paul claimed 3 times that Revelation 20:4 was a current reality.

[Truth7t7]

It's true the destination of both those who have done good and those who have done evil will be the physical resurrection to either resurrection of life, or resurrection to condemnation, but the physical resurrection is for ALL who are in the graves in the same "hour". Since this bodily resurrection of ALL the physically dead comes at the same "hour" it's impossible to separate the "hour" it is for ALL.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

If Daniel 12 is speaking of the physical resurrection on the last day in "the hour coming" why does he write that "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake"? This cannot be the physical resurrection coming in "the hour" because it says only "many awake", not ALL.

Daniel 12:1-4 (KJV) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel is speaking of the age of the Messiah coming when after His death and resurrection many graves of saints were opened and ascended with Christ through the Spirit in them to the Holy City New Jerusalem in heaven as living (spirit) souls. Those who witnessed their spiritual resurrection to heaven are the multitude in heaven. The MANY that arose spiritually to everlasting life had part in the first resurrection, spiritual life that is of the resurrection of Christ. The rest will not have part in the first resurrection but will have part in the physical resurrection of ALL physically dead mankind on the last day. Their physical resurrection will be to shame and everlasting contempt. While those physically resurrected to life will have put on incorruptible and immortal bodies of flesh at His coming. (1Co 15:51-54)

Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Revelation 21:2 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Below we see the time of God's people being delivered that surrounds the future great tribulation, a time of trouble never seen in earth's history

You will closely note "At That Time" every one delivered will be found "Written In The Book" this is the "Final Judgement" when "The Book Of Life" is opened, it's parallel reading is seen in Revelation 20:11-15KJV where the resurrection of all is seen and the book of life is opened "Once"

Conclusion: Daniel 12:1-2 & Revelation 20:11-15 represents the last day resurrection and final judgment of all

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Revelation 20:11-15KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Marty fox]

It's true the destination of both those who have done good and those who have done evil will be the physical resurrection to either resurrection of life, or resurrection to condemnation, but the physical resurrection is for ALL who are in the graves in the same "hour". Since this bodily resurrection of ALL the physically dead comes at the same "hour" it's impossible to separate the "hour" it is for ALL.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

If Daniel 12 is speaking of the physical resurrection on the last day in "the hour coming" why does he write that "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake"? This cannot be the physical resurrection coming in "the hour" because it says only "many awake", not ALL.

Daniel 12:1-4 (KJV) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel is speaking of the age of the Messiah coming when after His death and resurrection many graves of saints were opened and ascended with Christ through the Spirit in them to the Holy City New Jerusalem in heaven as living (spirit) souls. Those who witnessed their spiritual resurrection to heaven are the multitude in heaven. The MANY that arose spiritually to everlasting life had part in the first resurrection, spiritual life that is of the resurrection of Christ. The rest will not have part in the first resurrection but will have part in the physical resurrection of ALL physically dead mankind on the last day. Their physical resurrection will be to shame and everlasting contempt. While those physically resurrected to life will have put on incorruptible and immortal bodies of flesh at His coming. (1Co 15:51-54)

Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Revelation 21:2 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Well said and great point about Daniel 12 it ties directly with Matthew 27.

 

[Marty fox]

Jesus will not walk on this earth again! When He returns the second time it will be to gather together His Church from this earth, where the Church will meet Him in the air, and be changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible until the fiery wrath of God that burns up the first heaven and earth is over. Then the new heaven and new earth will come down from heaven with the holy city New Jerusalem prepared as a bride adorned for her husband where the Lord and His faithful Church will walk with Him forever.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

2 Peter 3:10-12 (KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.



The only resurrection that assures mankind admittance to heaven is the first resurrection, that is the resurrection of Christ. When we partake of Christ in TIME, symbolized a thousand years, then we have part in the first resurrection for those who are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. When we have part in the first resurrection through Christ, we have overcome the second death, and live and reign with Christ in this gospel age, symbolized a thousand years.

Christ speaks of the first resurrection mankind must have part in to overcome the second death when He says the first resurrection man will be equal to angels, who are spirit, not flesh and blood. These spirit souls are children of the resurrection with Moses, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob because God is not of the dead, but of the living. If Christ had been speaking of the physical resurrection that shall be on the last day, He would not liken the children of the resurrection to spirit beings (angels). Because the bodily resurrection will be flesh and blood, which cannot enter into the Kingdom of heaven which is a spiritual habitation.

Luke 20:34-38 (KJV) And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Amen great post yes we are part of the first resurrection

 

[Marty fox]

Those beheaded souls John sees in heaven did not have their heads cut off and then have part in the first resurrection. They had their heads cut off because they were part of the first resurrection. Since they died in faith, they are seen ALIVE in heaven, having lived and reigned with Christ while alive on earth during the TIME John likens to a thousand symbolic years. Now spiritually alive in heaven they look forward to the physical resurrection on the last day when their mortal, corruptible bodies will be resurrected and changed to be re-united with their eternal spirit that will return with Christ.

Yes they died because of the first resurrection.

 

[rwb]

Below we see the time of God's people being delivered that surrounds the future great tribulation, a time of trouble never seen in earth's history

You will closely note "At That Time" every one delivered will be found "Written In The Book" this is the "Final Judgement" when "The Book Of Life" is opened, it's parallel reading is seen in Revelation 20:11-15KJV where the resurrection of all is seen and the book of life is opened "Once"

Conclusion: Daniel 12:1-2 & Revelation 20:11-15 represents the last day resurrection and final judgment of all

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Revelation 20:11-15KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Daniel 1:1-2 is speaking of the time when the promised Messiah would come. According to Scripture Michael stood up for "the children of thy people" with the advent of Christ's birth. At the birth of Christ there was a war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels, and the dragon and his angels were cast out of heaven to the earth. This is fulfillment of Daniel's prophetic words of the time when Michael would stand up for "the children of thy people."

Revelation 12:2-5 (KJV) And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 12:7-10 (KJV) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Salvation, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ had come with the advent of Christ's birth. Why? Because now prophesy is fulfilled when the babe becomes a man, lives a perfect sinless life, pays the penalty for sin by His death on the cross, then defeats death by His resurrection and ascension to heaven. Daniel writes that this time will be a time of trouble such has never before been and shall never be again. Christ confirms Daniel's prophesy when He speaks to His disciples on the Mount of Olives. Christ says with the proclamation of the gospel of the Kingdom unto all nations there shall be "great tribulation" such as never before and shall never again be. There has never before been any other entity on earth that has suffered greater tribulation then the Church on earth and yet continues to thrive and grow. Because God promised even though the Church would come under this great tribulation again and again as the gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth, the prosecution will not endure. The gates of hell though loosed against the Church on earth cannot prevent Christ from building His eternal Church. For the sake of His elect Church the tribulation would be cut short. And we see this truth throughout redemptive history as we count the many martyrs for The Christian Faith.

Matthew 24:14 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:21 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:22 (KJV) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Daniel writes at that day when Michael stands up, thy people shall be delivered whose names ARE FOUND written in the book. This is the spiritual resurrection and is not the physical resurrection that shall be of ALL people, and those who have done good to physical resurrection of life, and those who have done evil physically resurrected to condemnation. In the physical resurrection that shall come on the last day of this age it is "the dead" who are being judged by things written in the books and whose names are NOT FOUND written in the book of life. Daniel prophesies of thy people that shall be delivered, every one that shall be found in the book. But John prophesies of "THE DEAD" who shall be judged, not of thy people that shall be delivered.

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Revelation 20:11-12KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:15 (KJV) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If we conflate the first resurrection at beginning of the gospel age with the physical resurrection at the end of this age, then we will miss the fact that the first resurrection is the resurrection of Christ that man MUST partake of in this gospel age to have eternal life with Christ on the new earth. Daniel's prophesy covers the whole gospel age from the first advent of Christ coming to earth a man until the last day of this age and time shall be no more and the mystery of God should be finished, because the Kingdom of God will then be complete.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[Truth7t7]

Daniel 1:1-2 is speaking of the time when the promised Messiah would come. According to Scripture Michael stood up for "the children of thy people" with the advent of Christ's birth. At the birth of Christ there was a war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels, and the dragon and his angels were cast out of heaven to the earth. This is fulfillment of Daniel's prophetic words of the time when Michael would stand up for "the children of thy people."

Revelation 12:2-5 (KJV) And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 12:7-10 (KJV) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Salvation, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ had come with the advent of Christ's birth. Why? Because now prophesy is fulfilled when the babe becomes a man, lives a perfect sinless life, pays the penalty for sin by His death on the cross, then defeats death by His resurrection and ascension to heaven. Daniel writes that this time will be a time of trouble such has never before been and shall never be again. Christ confirms Daniel's prophesy when He speaks to His disciples on the Mount of Olives. Christ says with the proclamation of the gospel of the Kingdom unto all nations there shall be "great tribulation" such as never before and shall never again be. There has never before been any other entity on earth that has suffered greater tribulation then the Church on earth and yet continues to thrive and grow. Because God promised even though the Church would come under this great tribulation again and again as the gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth, the prosecution will not endure. The gates of hell though loosed against the Church on earth cannot prevent Christ from building His eternal Church. For the sake of His elect Church the tribulation would be cut short. And we see this truth throughout redemptive history as we count the many martyrs for The Christian Faith.

Matthew 24:14 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:21 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:22 (KJV) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Daniel writes at that day when Michael stands up, thy people shall be delivered whose names ARE FOUND written in the book. This is the spiritual resurrection and is not the physical resurrection that shall be of ALL people, and those who have done good to physical resurrection of life, and those who have done evil physically resurrected to condemnation. In the physical resurrection that shall come on the last day of this age it is "the dead" who are being judged by things written in the books and whose names are NOT FOUND written in the book of life. Daniel prophesies of thy people that shall be delivered, every one that shall be found in the book. But John prophesies of "THE DEAD" who shall be judged, not of thy people that shall be delivered.

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Revelation 20:11-12KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:15 (KJV) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If we conflate the first resurrection at beginning of the gospel age with the physical resurrection at the end of this age, then we will miss the fact that the first resurrection is the resurrection of Christ that man MUST partake of in this gospel age to have eternal life with Christ on the new earth. Daniel's prophesy covers the whole gospel age from the first advent of Christ coming to earth a man until the last day of this age and time shall be no more and the mystery of God should be finished, because the Kingdom of God will then be complete.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

We Disagree

Below we see the time of God's people being delivered that surrounds the future great tribulation, a time of trouble never seen in earth's history

You will closely note "At That Time" every one delivered will be found "Written In The Book" this is the "Final Judgement" when "The Book Of Life" is opened, it's parallel reading is seen in Revelation 20:11-15KJV where the resurrection of all is seen and the book of life is opened "Once"

Conclusion: Daniel 12:1-2 & Revelation 20:11-15 represents the last day resurrection and final judgment of all

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Revelation 20:11-15KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[rwb]

We Disagree

Below we see the time of God's people being delivered that surrounds the future great tribulation, a time of trouble never seen in earth's history

You will closely note "At That Time" every one delivered will be found "Written In The Book" this is the "Final Judgement" when "The Book Of Life" is opened, it's parallel reading is seen in Revelation 20:11-15KJV where the resurrection of all is seen and the book of life is opened "Once"

Conclusion: Daniel 12:1-2 & Revelation 20:11-15 represents the last day resurrection and final judgment of all

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Revelation 20:11-15KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You're right! We disagree! You repeat "at that time" insisting Daniel says EVERYONE when Daniel says only "thy people" shall be delivered. Thy people is not everyone delivered, but Jews of Old, because they are "thy people" from the nation of Israel, Daniel's people. Gentile believers after the advent of Christ will also belong to Israel of God, but Gentile believers are NOT "thy people" who lived of old, the Jews of faith. They are the faithful saints whose graves were opened after the resurrection of Christ and ascended to heaven with the Lord. They are the Jews of old, of faith whose names were found written in the book. They are not "THE DEAD" whose names are NOT found written in the book of life at the end of this age who are cast into the lake of fire. How do you prove the book of life is opened only once at the end of this age? Paul tells us who these faithful saints of old are. They are the prophets and saints of old consisting of seven thousand men whom God has reserved from the nation of old to Himself. The faithful saints of old, "thy people" Daniel's people from Israel of old.

Only the faithful from Old Covenant Jewish Israel and New Covenant Jew & Gentile together, Israel of God are written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

Romans 11:3-4 (KJV) Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Ezekiel 13:9 (KJV) And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

Psalm 69:28 (KJV) Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Luke 10:20 (KJV) Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Revelation 13:8 (KJV) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Truth7t7]

You're right! We disagree! You repeat "at that time" insisting Daniel says EVERYONE when Daniel says only "thy people" shall be delivered. Thy people is not everyone delivered, but Jews of Old, because they are "thy people" from the nation of Israel, Daniel's people. Gentile believers after the advent of Christ will also belong to Israel of God, but Gentile believers are NOT "thy people" who lived of old, the Jews of faith. They are the faithful saints whose graves were opened after the resurrection of Christ and ascended to heaven with the Lord. They are the Jews of old, of faith whose names were found written in the book. They are not "THE DEAD" whose names are NOT found written in the book of life at the end of this age who are cast into the lake of fire. How do you prove the book of life is opened only once at the end of this age? Paul tells us who these faithful saints of old are. They are the prophets and saints of old consisting of seven thousand men whom God has reserved from the nation of old to Himself. The faithful saints of old, "thy people" Daniel's people from Israel of old.

Only the faithful from Old Covenant Jewish Israel and New Covenant Jew & Gentile together, Israel of God are written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

Romans 11:3-4 (KJV) Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Ezekiel 13:9 (KJV) And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

Psalm 69:28 (KJV) Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Luke 10:20 (KJV) Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Revelation 13:8 (KJV) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Yes we disagree, there is one future resurrection of all that have lived, this takes place on the Last Day at the second coming of Jesus Christ

There Is One Book Of Life, Both Old And New Testament Believers Will Be In It, Those That Die In Faith, This Book Will Be Opened "Once" At The Final Judgement

Daniel 12:1-2 & Revelation 20:11-15 represents the last day resurrection and final judgment of all

The Horse Is Dead, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[rwb]

Yes we disagree, there is one future resurrection of all that have lived, this takes place on the Last Day at the second coming of Jesus Christ

There Is One Book Of Life, Both Old And New Testament Believers Will Be In It, Those That Die In Faith, This Book Will Be Opened "Once" At The Final Judgement

Daniel 12:1-2 & Revelation 20:11-15 represents the last day resurrection and final judgment of all

The Horse Is Dead, Jesus Is The Lord

There is one physical resurrection when dead bodies are resurrected to life to determine which will be changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible or resurrected to be condemned. This bodily resurrection is for ALL of humanity. But what about the "first resurrection" man must have part in to overcome the second death which is the lake of fire? The resurrection that Christ says those resurrected are not physical bodies, but are as, and equal to the angels in heaven? This is not the physical resurrection that will come at the end of this age, it is a spiritual resurrection. If it were physical Christ would not say in the resurrection, we will be as and equal to angels that are spirit.

 

[Truth7t7]

There is one physical resurrection when dead bodies are resurrected to life to determine which will be changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible or resurrected to be condemned. This bodily resurrection is for ALL of humanity. But what about the "first resurrection" man must have part in to overcome the second death which is the lake of fire? The resurrection that Christ says those resurrected are not physical bodies, but are as, and equal to the angels in heaven? This is not the physical resurrection that will come at the end of this age, it is a spiritual resurrection. If it were physical Christ would not say in the resurrection, we will be as and equal to angels that are spirit.

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[rwb]

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

There is only ONE resurrection "for the hour coming" at the end of this age. ALL who are in the grave will be resurrected at this specific hour to resurrection life or condemnation! Nowhere in Scripture do we find two separate physical resurrections of ALL who are in the graves.

Those living (spirit) souls John sees in heaven John says "have lived with Christ a thousand years". They lived and reigned with Christ because in life they had part in the first resurrection. We know they have part in the first resurrection because only those having part in the first resurrection are called blessed and holy and live and reign with Christ in time symbolized a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The rest of the dead (the dead of Rev 20:12 called to stand before God to be judged) will not live again until the thousand years were finished. Since they are not among the souls of vs 4 who have lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years, nor are they of those who shall reign with Christ in time, symbolized a thousand years how can they be part of the first resurrection? Because those of the first resurrection are called blessed and holy because they have part in the first resurrection, and only they live and reign with Christ a thousand symbolic years. One must be of the first resurrection in this age before time comes to an end, and live and reign with Christ during this age of TIME, symbolized a thousand years to have no fear of the second death. That means the first resurrection is not of the rest of the dead who will not live again until after the thousand years are finished. Therefore the first resurrection speaks of those who lived and reigned with Christ during this age of time (faithful saints, believers), and also those who shall live with Christ in this age of time symbolized a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 (KJV) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The only way to have no part in the second death is to be part of the first resurrection and live and reign with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years. This designation is given only to the living. It is not given to the rest of the dead which John says will not live again until the thousand years are finished.

John writes in life, in time, this age believers are already made kings and priests unto God.

Revelation 1:6 (KJV) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

We live and reign with Christ both in this age of time, symbolized a thousand years, and after we die we will be living (spirit) souls in heaven, and we shall reign with Him on the earth that shall come when this first earth has passed away.

Revelation 5:9-10 (KJV) And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[Truth7t7]

There is only ONE resurrection "for the hour coming" at the end of this age. ALL who are in the grave will be resurrected at this specific hour to resurrection life or condemnation! Nowhere in Scripture do we find two separate physical resurrections of ALL who are in the graves.

Those living (spirit) souls John sees in heaven John says "have lived with Christ a thousand years". They lived and reigned with Christ because in life they had part in the first resurrection. We know they have part in the first resurrection because only those having part in the first resurrection are called blessed and holy and live and reign with Christ in time symbolized a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The rest of the dead (the dead of Rev 20:12 called to stand before God to be judged) will not live again until the thousand years were finished. Since they are not among the souls of vs 4 who have lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years, nor are they of those who shall reign with Christ in time, symbolized a thousand years how can they be part of the first resurrection? Because those of the first resurrection are called blessed and holy because they have part in the first resurrection, and only they live and reign with Christ a thousand symbolic years. One must be of the first resurrection in this age before time comes to an end, and live and reign with Christ during this age of TIME, symbolized a thousand years to have no fear of the second death. That means the first resurrection is not of the rest of the dead who will not live again until after the thousand years are finished. Therefore the first resurrection speaks of those who lived and reigned with Christ during this age of time (faithful saints, believers), and also those who shall live with Christ in this age of time symbolized a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 (KJV) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The only way to have no part in the second death is to be part of the first resurrection and live and reign with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years. This designation is given only to the living. It is not given to the rest of the dead which John says will not live again until the thousand years are finished.

John writes in life, in time, this age believers are already made kings and priests unto God.

Revelation 1:6 (KJV) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

We live and reign with Christ both in this age of time, symbolized a thousand years, and after we die we will be living (spirit) souls in heaven, and we shall reign with Him on the earth that shall come when this first earth has passed away.

Revelation 5:9-10 (KJV) And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

We Disagree, There Is One Time Of Resurrection Of All, This Takes Place On The Last Day At The Second Coming, There Are (Two) Resurrection On This Last Day

The (First) Resurrection To Eternal life

The (Second) Resurrection To The Second Death In Eternal Damnation, The Lake Of Fire

We Disagree, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[rwb]

We Disagree, There Is One Time Of Resurrection Of All, This Takes Place On The Last Day At The Second Coming, There Are (Two) Resurrection On This Last Day

The (First) Resurrection To Eternal life

The (Second) Resurrection To The Second Death In Eternal Damnation, The Lake Of Fire

We Disagree, Jesus Is The Lord

Your reply lacks proof from Scripture??? The last day resurrection that John writes of is only for "the dead"! John makes no mention in Rev 20 of the resurrection of the righteous saints being judged at the GWTJ. Why? Because only "the dead" stand before God to give account according to what is written in the books, and the book of life. Where in the following passage do we find those living, who were changed from mortal to immortal and from corruptible to incorruptible when the seventh trumpet sounded, and they were physically resurrected and changed being judged from what is written in the books and the book of life?

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The living, being already clothed in immortal bodies were resurrected in the same hour coming, at the return of Christ, but their eternal fate is not judgment and the lake of fire it is for eternal life as complete living souls as man was at creation before sin and death entered into creation. They stand with Christ at the GWTJ, but not to be judged by what is written in the books. They have already been found in the book of life when they partook of the first resurrection in life, that is the resurrection of Christ, or they would not be standing on the right hand of Christ with immortal and incorruptible bodies.

Matthew 25:31-34 (KJV) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[Mr E]

First that is an assumption, and second Michael doesn't raise anyone from the dead only God can do that.

Seventh Day Adventists like @Brakelite teach that Michael is Jesus. (Jesus is Michael)

 

[Timtofly]

Verse 5 says that they are resurrected and I do give the beheaded ones a resurrection you keep say I say things that I don’t.

They are given permanent incorruptible physical bodies and then reign on earth with Christ for a thousand years. I agree with that statement.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus will not walk on this earth again! When He returns the second time it will be to gather together His Church from this earth, where the Church will meet Him in the air, and be changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible until the fiery wrath of God that burns up the first heaven and earth is over. Then the new heaven and new earth will come down from heaven with the holy city New Jerusalem prepared as a bride adorned for her husband where the Lord and His faithful Church will walk with Him forever.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

2 Peter 3:10-12 (KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.



The only resurrection that assures mankind admittance to heaven is the first resurrection, that is the resurrection of Christ. When we partake of Christ in TIME, symbolized a thousand years, then we have part in the first resurrection for those who are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. When we have part in the first resurrection through Christ, we have overcome the second death, and live and reign with Christ in this gospel age, symbolized a thousand years.

Christ speaks of the first resurrection mankind must have part in to overcome the second death when He says the first resurrection man will be equal to angels, who are spirit, not flesh and blood. These spirit souls are children of the resurrection with Moses, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob because God is not of the dead, but of the living. If Christ had been speaking of the physical resurrection that shall be on the last day, He would not liken the children of the resurrection to spirit beings (angels). Because the bodily resurrection will be flesh and blood, which cannot enter into the Kingdom of heaven which is a spiritual habitation.

Luke 20:34-38 (KJV) And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Revelation 20:4 is not about the church. It is about those beheaded and given a resurrection into a permanent incorruptible physical body. They reign with Christ on earth for 1,000 years. The camp of the saints includes those resurrected in Revelation 20:4. The camp is on earth, 1,000 years after the Second Coming. Those resurrected are on earth 1,000 years after the Second Coming. They can never die again physically.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes they died because of the first resurrection.

They have not even been beheaded yet. It happens during those 42 months in Revelation 13.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is one of the most controversial verses in the entire bible and a lot of Christians believe that it has to be a future event because they believe that it's on the resurrection day. But according to Paul he stated three times that it was a current reality back in his day.

Here below are the three texts.

Ephesians
2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

In the verses above Paul states that we were already made alive, raised up and seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 3:1
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Once again Paul states that we have already been raised up with Christ.

Romans 5:17
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Finally in the verse above Paul states that we reign in life through Jesus.

All of these verses were a current reality while alive in the physical body almost two thousand years ago. If it was a reality back, then it is still a reality today.

Paul ties three events directly to Revelation 20:4 "that we have been made alive", "seated with Christ in the heavenly realms" and that "we reign (in life) through Jesus".

Why do so many Christians not accept this even though Paul declares it? Because they are focused on it being physical not spiritual. They focus on the physical because it mentions saints that were beheaded by the beast and the thousand years.

But let's let scripture interpret scripture. Paul teaches that its spiritual and what John is saying in Revelation 20:4 is that even though the saints are beheaded they still live and reign spiritually the soul doesn't die with the body. It's a promise even though you may die for Jesus you will still live and reign spiritually. The beast can kill the body but not the soul.

Thus, according to Paul we reign in life now and have been for almost two thousand years we are not limited to a literal thousand years God has a better longer plan.

This does not take away a future physical resurrection at the end of our world.

No mark of the beast.

 

[Timtofly]

Those living (spirit) souls John sees in heaven John says "have lived with Christ a thousand years".

This is a direct misquote. The word "have" is not found in God's Word.

Amil change the text to fit their bias.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Shall reign. Not: have reigned.

 

[rwb]

Revelation 20:4 is not about the church. It is about those beheaded and given a resurrection into a permanent incorruptible physical body. They reign with Christ on earth for 1,000 years. The camp of the saints includes those resurrected in Revelation 20:4. The camp is on earth, 1,000 years after the Second Coming. Those resurrected are on earth 1,000 years after the Second Coming. They can never die again physically.

Yes it is about the Church. Why do you think they were beheaded? They were martyred for their faith because they are the Church! They will be physically resurrected with every human at the end of this age. They already lived and reigned with Christ in TIME, symbolized a thousand years. That's why they were martyred for the faith. Yes, the Church, though small in number no doubt will still be upon this earth when Satan is loosed for his little season to surround them. That's when the Church still alive at that time will be caught up to meet the Lord, and fire will come down from God out of heaven to utterly burn up all who are still alive on the earth.