Paul claimed 3 times that Rev 20:4 was a current reality.

[Mr E]

Those resurrected in Matthew 27:52-53 are called “many” which means many(high in number); multitudinous, plenteous, "much"; "great" in amount (extent).

In Acts 2:29 David was both dead and buried at that time so he wasn’t one of many that were resurrected in Matthew 27:52-53.

How is it then that the “rest of the dead” in Revelation 20 doesn’t include David?

Yes-- many. 144,000 even, according to scripture.

David did die and was buried. And when he died, his spirit-- his "Lord" -the master of his house did not die with that physical body--that "house." The spirit, returned to God.

David died and was buried-- the writer says.... you can go to his sepulcher and look at his bones. But Jesus taught that to be dead physically is not equivalent to our spiritual "life" in fact-- he taught that 'dead physically' is akin to falling asleep-- a temporary state.

He taught--

I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

When he said this, Abraham, Issac and Jacob were most assuredly-- dead. In the physical sense. But that isn't what he was talking about.

So too with David. In almost the same breath as he taught this above, he also said concerning David>>>

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

You can read it-- God, said to David.......

David had a Lord. He is quoted in Acts speaking of this Lord, this way>>>

For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

He recognized the difference between the physical flesh-- the David, that was his body, and the spirit that was within him-- that he had been anointed with, by God.

 

[Timtofly]

I agree, I don’t think the dead that live again is meant as them being resurrected.




If you see the “rest of the dead” as those is Sheol and when they live again it’s not a resurrection, then what is it?

Why ask me what a resurrection is?

If those in Christ since the Cross are not physically resurrected, why would those in sheol ever be physically resurrected? Sheol has always been understood as the grave.

Yet one does not take a physical body to sheol. The point is that prior to the Cross, even Abraham's bosom was the grave an extension of sheol, but without the torment.

You are literally saying that being in Christ is still literal death and the grave/sheol. Because the grave itself is the lack of a body, call it natural, spiritual, or physical. So if they lack a body even in heaven, then you deny a resurrection period. Because the soul and spirit never die as they are not physical to begin with.

From conception, the soul is in a state of death, not dead, in a physical body. In the grave the soul is still in a state of death, not dead, without a physical body. The state of death does not change whether there is a body or not. The soul is always alive but always considered as "the dead". In Revelation, John is not saying he sees souls without bodies. He is saying he sees souls as no longer part of those in a state of death.

A soul in Christ has been removed from that state of death since the second birth and placed into life. This is true with or without a physical body. Now the second birth was not discussed in the OT, but they were still in Christ and still tasted the grave/death, without being still in a state of death. Those in Abraham's bosom were never "the dead". So the dead that stand at the GWT can never include the redeemed, unless they are afforded the second birth at that time.

Yet many say, even those in Christ cannot obtain a physical body until the GWT judgment. So what is a resurrection then out of the grave, unless it is a physical body? Lazarus was said to have a physical body when he was resurrected out of death/the grave. It is not that those in sheol live again just as a soul. They have always lived as a soul. As has been pointed out by many, even if they are still wrong in their timing, that living again can only mean having a physical body. The second birth which is spiritual is not living again, it is no longer living in a state of death as a soul. But it is not a resurrection of the soul. It is a new state of being never experienced before.

Adam and Eve were the only ones spiritually alive, as they passed on that state of death to all their descendants after Seth. But many refuse to accept they also physically died. That is why there are two physical bodies. One of death. One of life.

One cannot say that the body returns to dust while at the same time is changed. The body of death returns to dust. The body of life is given to the soul at physical death, because that is the day of redemption of the soul with a body. That is the first resurrection. But not to earth, as that physical body is experienced in Paradise a physical place as part of heaven. The timing is immediate on the basis no human in Christ remains in death, or even tastes death, after the soul leaves this body of death.

 

[grafted branch]

Yes-- many. 144,000 even, according to scripture.

David did die and was buried. And when he died, his spirit-- his "Lord" -the master of his house did not die with that physical body--that "house." The spirit, returned to God.

David died and was buried-- the writer says.... you can go to his sepulcher and look at his bones. But Jesus taught that to be dead physically is not equivalent to our spiritual "life" in fact-- he taught that 'dead physically' is akin to falling asleep-- a temporary state.

He taught--

I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

When he said this, Abraham, Issac and Jacob were most assuredly-- dead. In the physical sense. But that isn't what he was talking about.

So too with David. In almost the same breath as he taught this above, he also said concerning David>>>

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

You can read it-- God, said to David.......

David had a Lord. He is quoted in Acts speaking of this Lord, this way>>>

For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

He recognized the difference between the physical flesh-- the David, that was his body, and the spirit that was within him-- that he had been anointed with, by God.

I agree, David wasn’t spiritually dead. In Matthew 27:52-53 it’s the bodies <4983> of the saints that came out of the graves. I don’t know if you follow the idea that it was their spiritual bodies that arose or not, but if so then the question arises as to how Moses could’ve been on the mount of transfiguration if both his physical body and spiritual body were still in the grave.

Also in Matthew 27:58, just a few verses after 52-53, Arimathaea asked for the body <4983> of Jesus, obviously His physical body.

Another problem with claiming it was their spiritual bodies only, is seen in Daniel 12:2 where you have a resurrection of many, which again just means many and not all. Where ever you place this resurrection, which includes both saved and unsaved, it means there had to be another resurrection besides this one, which puts any idea of only a single one time bodily resurrection in doubt.

 

[Davidpt]

How can this symbolic TIME said to begin when Satan is bound, that does not end until he is set free, not be the same TIME the Church is sent unto all the world to proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom of God?

Roger, granted, that indeed makes sense, yet that is not all there is to consider before deciding where the thousand years logically fit. For example, what I posted per #147. Can't see how any of that doesn't support Premil but somehow supports Amil instead.

 

[Davidpt]

I agree, David wasn’t spiritually dead. In Matthew 27:52-53 it’s the bodies <4983> of the saints that came out of the graves. I don’t know if you follow the idea that it was their spiritual bodies that arose or not, but if so then the question arises as to how Moses could’ve been on the mount of transfiguration if both his physical body and spiritual body were still in the grave.

Also in Matthew 27:58, just a few verses after 52-53, Arimathaea asked for the body <4983> of Jesus, obviously His physical body.

Another problem with claiming it was their spiritual bodies only, is seen in Daniel 12:2 where you have a resurrection of many, which again just means many and not all. Where ever you place this resurrection, which includes both saved and unsaved, it means there had to be another resurrection besides this one, which puts any idea of only a single one time bodily resurrection in doubt.

Whatever came out of the graves, it was obviously transformed into something logical. Meaning that skeletons nor dust of the earth were walking around the holy city being seen by others. And that it didn't include OT saints such as Daniel if Daniel was told to rest until the end of the days. Meaning to me the last day of this present age.

 

[Mr E]

I agree, David wasn’t spiritually dead. In Matthew 27:52-53 it’s the bodies <4983> of the saints that came out of the graves. I don’t know if you follow the idea that it was their spiritual bodies that arose or not, but if so then the question arises as to how Moses could’ve been on the mount of transfiguration if both his physical body and spiritual body were still in the grave.

Also in Matthew 27:58, just a few verses after 52-53, Arimathaea asked for the body <4983> of Jesus, obviously His physical body.

Another problem with claiming it was their spiritual bodies only, is seen in Daniel 12:2 where you have a resurrection of many, which again just means many and not all. Where ever you place this resurrection, which includes both saved and unsaved, it means there had to be another resurrection besides this one, which puts any idea of only a single one time bodily resurrection in doubt.

Bodies, yes (soma) -not (sarx) mortal flesh.

We know that Moses (for example) wasn't physically on Mt Tabor because his scripture tells us that he died at the age of 120 after which he was buried in a valley in the land of Moab.

Secondly, we know it was in spirit that Moses appeared on Mt Tabor, because scripture tells us Jesus described the event as a vision (in 'the cloud).

 

[grafted branch]

Whatever came out of the graves, it was obviously transformed into something logical. Meaning that skeletons nor dust of the earth were walking around the holy city being seen by others. And that it didn't include OT saints such as Daniel if Daniel was told to rest until the end of the days. Meaning to me the last day of this present age.

Yes, we can’t know exactly what those bodies looked like but we know that a spirit doesn’t need to have the grave opened nor does it make sense that a spiritual body which slept arose.

I suppose someone could try to argue that this is soul sleep but then they would have to apply that to believers which makes no sense.

As far as if Daniel was in that lot, I don’t know but I wouldn’t argue one way or the other.

We know from 2 Timothy 2:17-18 that Hymenaeus and Philetus were saying that the resurrection had passed already and it would seem to be nearly impossible to make that claim unless there were some empty graves from the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrection.

 

[grafted branch]

Bodies, yes (soma) -not (sarx) mortal flesh.

We know that Moses (for example) wasn't physically on Mt Tabor because his scripture tells us that he died at the age of 120 after which he was buried in a valley in the land of Moab.

Secondly, we know it was in spirit that Moses appeared on Mt Tabor, because scripture tells us Jesus described the event as a vision (in 'the cloud).

I personally have no problem saying the first resurrection happened at the cross or including those in Matthew 27:52-53 as the first resurrection. It’s when we come to “the rest of the dead” and who they are that seems to be the issue.

Ok, so back to the initial group (my term) in Revelation 20:4. I think most everyone sees them as dead, I think they are figuratively dead, do you see them as physically dead or figuratively dead?

 

[Mr E]

I personally have no problem saying the first resurrection happened at the cross or including those in Matthew 27:52-53 as the first resurrection. It’s when we come to “the rest of the dead” and who they are that seems to be the issue.

Ok, so back to the initial group (my term) in Revelation 20:4. I think most everyone sees them as dead, I think they are figuratively dead, do you see them as physically dead or figuratively dead?

The 'initial group' were those who had been witnesses of Jesus at the time of the crucifixion/resurrection and had died prior to that event-- so that they were those 'in spirit' (not physical, because they were physically dead) who saw Christ overcome death.

The rest-- were all those who died/were killed after this (his) resurrection and after a period (thousand years) of rest.

 

[Marty fox]

Our life together with Christ shall never end! As a spiritual body of believers in heaven we still spiritually live with Christ there. When we are bodily raised and changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible who or what will there be to reign over? All will be made new on the new earth, where there will be no evil or death. Ruling and reigning is given for this earth where sin and death still exist. We rule and reign over the Kingdom of God in this life that the Kingdom of God might be complete, as the saints engage in this great spiritual warfare against Satan and the enemies of Christ. Once the Kingdom of God is complete what would be the purpose of ruling and reigning over our fellow saints? When Christ is with us on the new earth He will "wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Jesus alone will then be our King, and He shall reign over His Kingdom forever! Saints on the new earth won't need another ruler to reign over us, for He is the King of kings and there is no other.

Okay but to answer the question when the thousand years ends and satan is released do you not think that Jesus and us still reigns? What happens between his release and the end of our world with fire?

 

[grafted branch]

The 'initial group' were those who had been witnesses of Jesus at the time of the crucifixion/resurrection and had died prior to that event-- so that they were those 'in spirit' (not physical, because they were physically dead) who saw Christ overcome death.

The rest-- were all those who died/were killed after this (his) resurrection and after a period (thousand years) of rest.

Ok, I’m not sure how long this period of rest is, but if someone physically dies during this rest, where would you place them? And are you seeing believers as part of the “rest of the dead” group?

 

[Marty fox]

The misunderstanding of the thousand years comes from a more basic misunderstanding of what it means to reign with Christ. It doesn't mean, sitting beside him on a throne. It means serving alongside him. To be in his service, like a soldier is a servant, or the way a priest is (supposed to be) a servant. You serve as priest and king...

To think of this as ruling, is a complete misunderstanding of the role of a ruler.... Any good king recognizes himself as a servant. The revelation of Jesus Christ after all, is a review of the life of Christ-- the annointed one. The story of the spirit alive in the man and life of Jesus.

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever.

Yes of course I agree but my question still stands I don't believe that the reigning ends untill the end of our world which is after the binding ends

 

[Timtofly]

In this chapter John has shown us the fates of not only all who shall be saved, but also the fate of all who remain in unbelief. This chapter includes all of humanity.

How does it include all humanity? Was Satan bound at the Flood? Does your symbolic "thousand years" span all of humanity from Noah on?

At some point you have to really define this thousand years, and all of humanity have not been alive and or been dead since the Cross. Now if you meant the dead in the grave, I agree. But those in Christ never even entered death nor the grave since the Cross. No one in Christ is waiting to be made alive. That happens at the second birth spiritually and physically when the soul leaves this body of death for the body of life in Paradise.

 

[Mr E]

Yes of course I agree but my question still stands I don't believe that the reigning ends untill the end of our world which is after the binding ends

Thunder only happens when it's reigning....

And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

I don't want to take this conversation too far afield, but in a nutshell, these crowns of gold that are set aside represent the rest/reward that these elders were given. They fall down (casting their crowns) and descending from the heavens to the earth below, in service to the anointed one.

 

[Marty fox]

Thunder only happens when it's reigning....

And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

I don't want to take this conversation too far afield, but in a nutshell, these crowns of gold that are set aside represent the rest/reward that these elders were given. They fall down (casting their crowns) and descending from the heavens to the earth below, in service to the anointed one.

Soooo are you agreeing with me?

 

[Davidpt]

Yes, we can’t know exactly what those bodies looked like but we know that a spirit doesn’t need to have the grave opened nor does it make sense that a spiritual body which slept arose.

I suppose someone could try to argue that this is soul sleep but then they would have to apply that to believers which makes no sense.

As far as if Daniel was in that lot, I don’t know but I wouldn’t argue one way or the other.

We know from 2 Timothy 2:17-18 that Hymenaeus and Philetus were saying that the resurrection had passed already and it would seem to be nearly impossible to make that claim unless there were some empty graves from the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrection.

Good points about spirit bodies. The only way I can see to rationalize this is like such. IOW, it looked like the following once their graves were opened and their bodies walked into the holy city and they were seen by others.

Ezekiel 37:5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

For the record, I'm not remotely saying this passage is involving Matthew 27 and the passage in question. My point has to do mostly with this...I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live. Keeping in mind that they would either be bones or dust of the earth, depending on how long they have been in the graves before the graves opened.

IOW, they would resemble this instead when their bodies walked out of the opened graves--I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you.

Which BTW, apparently this was also what inititially occured in Genesis 2 when God formed man out of the dust of the ground. Until He breathed life into Adam, his status was the same as recorded in verse 8 above---the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. Thus Adam didn't become a living soul until God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.

Initially man was formed out of the dust of the ground then returns to the dust of the ground, and that God is able to form them out of the dust of the ground yet again, but this time in order to live forever in bodies that can't die. Basically then, the resurrection of the dead is Genesis 2:7 being repeated, so to speak.

 

[grafted branch]

Good points about spirit bodies. The only way I can see to rationalize this is like such. IOW, it looked like the following once their graves were opened and their bodies walked into the holy city and they were seen by others.

Ezekiel 37:5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

For the record, I'm not remotely saying this passage is involving Matthew 27 and the passage in question. My point has to do mostly with this...I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live. Keeping in mind that they would either be bones or dust of the earth, depending on how long they have been in the graves before the graves opened.

IOW, they would resemble this instead when their bodies walked out of the opened graves--I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you.

Which BTW, apparently this was also what inititially occured in Genesis 2 when God formed man out of the dust of the ground. Until He breathed life into Adam, his status was the same as recorded in verse 8 above---the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. Thus Adam didn't become a living soul until God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.

Initially man was formed out of the dust of the ground then returns to the dust of the ground, and that God is able to form them out of the dust of the ground yet again, but this time in order to live forever in bodies that can't die. Basically then, the resurrection of the dead is Genesis 2:7 being repeated, so to speak.

I’ve thought the same thing, that Ezekiel 37 was pointing to Matthew 27:52-53.

Someone posted on another forum that some Jews even today insist on being buried facing Jerusalem/Israel when they die because they expect to be raised as Ezekiel 37 says in vs 12 I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. Apparently they think Ezekiel 37 hasn’t happened yet and they want to be prepared once they come out of their graves, so they won’t wonder which direction to go, they will just go straight forward to Israel.

 

[ewq1938]

Sorry.... I can see that this is a pet project for you, but it's nonsense.

God is spirit. God is záō. God is not alive in the body--

God is love and truth also so not limited to only being spirit and Jesus is God and is very much ZAO in body so that defeats any false concept of God only being a bodiless spirit.

 

[rwb]

When was Satan bound?

Was he not defeated with the victory of the lamb?

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

The victory of the lamb over death, is directly tied to the living and reigning with him.... (Rev 5)

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

And it already happened. Two thousand years ago. -- Or a thousand-years twice, if you insist.

Rev 9-- There was one to whom was given power and authority, and with that he held the key to the bottomless pit (where Satan is bound). The one who binds him there for 'periods' of time, is the same one who looses him for a little season.

And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

It would help if you could get your head around the idea of "purpose" for all these things. To do that, understand 'the seasons' and to do that, think in terms of nature. Springtime and harvest. Planting and sowing and growing, of seeding and weeding, of pruning and gathering. Really do it. Make the effort to understand these things.

I understand that time is measured through seasons. But I don't understand why you believe a thousand symbolic years of time of Rev 20 should be discerned as different seasons. Nor do I believe Satan is bound for "periods" of time. IMO a thousand years symbolizes all seasons of all time that began with the binding of Satan and won't end until the seventh trumpet begins to sound. Because a thousand years is time for Satan to be bound as the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is proclaimed in all the nations of the world, so the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven would be complete as people throughout the world hear of Christ and turn to Him in repentance, believing in Him for everlasting life. The fear of death has been removed from all who believe in Christ. This bondage to death that Satan had power to hold the nations of the world in fear of is done away through the resurrection of Christ.

IMO this chapter of Revelation was written that we might know the fate of the whole human race. As the Gospel is proclaimed when Satan is bound, people who believe the Gospel have entered the spiritual Kingdom of God through Christ's Spirit within us. John was to show us those who have been born again never die, who after the breath of life (spirit) has left our mortal body of flesh & bone, we (believers) are still alive, living souls, a spiritual body of believers who leave this earth and ascend to heaven.

John was also to show us what shall become of all who die in unbelief. When John writes of the DEAD who have not in life lived and reigned with Christ during this period of time symbolized a thousand years, they are the dead who shall be called to stand before God at the GWTJ after all time given this earth has come to an end. That is not only this time symbolized a thousand years, but also Satan's little season. Which btw is the only season John mentions in this chapter.

In this chapter we are to know that whosoever, during this period of time symbolized a thousand years, turns to Christ in repentance, believing the Gospel of the Kingdom of God through the power of the Holy Spirit, HAVE everlasting life, just as Christ promised that all who live and believe in Him shall NEVER die. AND we also know that a GWTJ awaits whosoever within this same symbolic period of time never repent and believe the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, shall be cast into the LOF that is the second death. We must understand the importance of knowing the fate of humankind, because our eternal destiny is dependent upon how all people hear and respond to Christ as the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Once this symbolic period of time has expired, it will be too late for mankind to be saved and have everlasting life. There won't be another one thousand literal years to come after this symbolic thousand years is finished, and that is the reason why we must know not only the fate, but also the period of time given when our fate is determined by who we believe Christ is when we hear the Gospel of the Kingdom of God proclaimed

 

[rwb]

How could they not be the fact this little season they are told to rest is paralleling a little season back on earth involving the martyring of their brethren? Regardless where one wants to place the timing of this little season back on earth, it is obviously meaning after Christ already died, already rose, and already ascended to heaven. Therefore, when they are crying out for vengeance, it parallels when their brethren are being martyred back on earth. IMO, this little season can only be meaning one thing, the 42 month reign of the beast per Revelation 13. And that this 42 month reign is what precedes the 2nd coming, therefore, placing this 42 month reign in the final days of this age, or at least it ends in the final days of this age. Which means the beast has to ascend out of the pit first, and that John during the time of seeing these visions indicated that was a future event.

You're assuming these under the altar lived and died after the first advent of Christ. If that were true, why are they seen under the altar and not in heaven as John says of those who were martyred for the witness of Jesus (Rev 20:4)?