PAST-Millennialism

[PinSeeker]

You're just being honest about yoursel(f)...

And trying to get you to do the same. :) You're nowhere near perfect, Ghada. None of us are.

Christians saints... Christian sinners.

We are both, for now. One day, though, we will no longer be the latter, but only the former.

You preach man's progressive religion of walking less after the flesh then before.

As does Paul, when he exhorts us to put off the old man and put on the new:

"...put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness" (Ephesians 4:22-24). And the writer of Hebrews, who ~ again ~ says, "...since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith" (Hebrews 12:1-2).​

That's why you never fail to testify of it, lest you be a liar about having no lust and sin still in your heart and life.

You're deceiving yourself, Ghada, just as John says:

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8).​

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:...

Ah yes, and this is after Peter has just said:

"His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him Who called us to His own glory and excellence, by which He has granted to us His precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:3 and following)​

So he's saying here precisely what Paul said in two places in particular:

• "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13)
• "...the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires" (Galatians 5:22-23)

Your salvation unto partial repentance...

You misunderstand.

There is no mind repentance with God, but only of deeds.

Both. You're refuting what Paul says in Ephesians 4:22 (cited above), among several other passages.

Jesus was tempted in all points, yet without sinning. So with His born sons.

Do you not pray continually as Jesus taught us to pray, namely, "...lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil..."?

I feel your hope. Really.

Great! Well, live it. :)

I'm always amused by how ungodly sinners are so 'concerned' for the righteous, and so 'sad', that we don't repent and return to our old righteousness for your conscience sake.

I just want you to quit deceiving yourself, Ghada, thinking you're perfect.

It's only the hypocrites that justify their unrepented works of the flesh...

Those would be unbelievers, who do not know the Redeemer.

Finally got to this old base.

LOL! It is what it is... LOL! There are certainly still consequences for sin; God disciplines those He loves. But even so, there is no condemnation for those in Christ, and nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Yes, I will stand on that "base" until the cows come home ~ or, until I die or until Christ returns, whichever comes first... :)

Are there repented saints living holy in all manners of life, and doing righteousness at all times?

Unfortunately, no. Not yet. But if they confess, and ask forgiveness in the name of Christ, and repent, then they are imputed the righteousness of Christ. And one great day, they will truly have that righteousness with Him. This is God's great promise.

Those who confess doing so, are they being true and righteous altogether, or being false and self-righteous?

Neither.

While it can be taught that there is the spiritual resurrection of the inner man, by repentance unto the NT new birth salvation, there is no such spirit-only Millennium. There are no flesh and blood saints reigning with Christ over nations of the earth, and especially not for a thousand years.

Ah, here we go with the future-only millennium... stuff. :)

You can believe you are reigning in whatever capacity you like on earth today, but it certainly isn't the thousand year Millennium of the resurrected Lord and saints to come at His return.

But since your 'reign' does not include ousting any unjust rulers, even from the smallest township, then it's of no practical use on earth.

It's as unpractical as being inwardly pure and justified in the spirit only, while outwardly corrupt and unjustified by works.

Ugh.

Grace and peace to you, Ghada. Especially grace, since it seems you are lacking in it ~ which is sinful, so you're actually proving my point with every post that you make here ~ at least in this conversation. But yes, grace and peace to you.

 

[ewq1938]

But there are other places which speak of regular history continuing on this planet AFTER Christ's second coming and the AD 70 resurrection event.

There was no resurrect event in AD70. It hasn't happened yet.

2Ti_2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[Mr E]

There was no resurrect event in AD70. It hasn't happened yet.

2Ti_2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

There was one around 33 though. It’s specifically mentioned in scripture.

 

[ewq1938]

There was one around 33 though. It’s specifically mentioned in scripture.

A mortal resurrection as all resurrections up until that time. The resurrection of the dead in Christ, known as the first resurrection is of all the saved dead and they resurrect to immortality not mortality. There is only one more after that, the resurrection of damnation.

Scripture only speaks of these two as part of prophecy.


Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life ; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"


Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

First group resurrection: "the just"
Second group resurrection: the "unjust"

 

[Mr E]

A mortal resurrection as all resurrections up until that time. The resurrection of the dead in Christ, known as the first resurrection is of all the saved dead and they resurrect to immortality not mortality. There is only one more after that, the resurrection of damnation.

Scripture only speaks of these two as part of prophecy.


Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life ; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"


Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

First group resurrection: "the just"
Second group resurrection: the "unjust"

I'm referring to Matt 27...

 

[ewq1938]

I'm referring to Matt 27...

We are talking about the resurrections of all who have died, not one person.

 

[Timtofly]

I believe you are reading a translation which says "...and they came to life and reigned with Christ the thousand years...". The translation I am reading simply says "...and they lived and reigned with Christ the thousand years..." Just the ordinary lifetime of these individuals in which they "reigned with Christ" at some point during the millennium years.

They lived as beheaded? Because the living part was after they are beheaded. John never implied they stopped living when they were beheaded. He literally said those beheaded were judged first, and then lived and reigned. How do you define and include this judgment that you seem to keep ignoring? The judgment awarded was the first resurrection. The judgment was awarded after they were beheaded.

 

[Timtofly]

All I know is that you can't seem to comprehend the Israelite concept of the "First-fruits" harvest - the FIRST of three harvest seasons celebrated in Israel at Passover, Pentecost, and the Feast of Tabernacles.

The wave sheaf of the barley harvest along with the single he-lamb at Passover was called the "First-fruits".
The next was the wheat harvest celebrated at Pentecost.
The Feast of Tabernacles was the "feast of ingathering" at the close of the agricultural year in Israel.

God as the "husbandman" was going to wait patiently for the "precious fruit of the earth" until all of these three "harvests" of the saints' bodies out of the ground were gathered.

And the first harvest already happened. The OT redeemed are already physically made alive. The second harvest is at the Second Coming. The third harvest is at the end of the Day of the Lord, the Millennium kingdom. A harvest is not necessarily a resurrection. A harvest is an ingathering.

All Revelation 20:5 is saying is that the rest of the dead have to wait until after the Day of the Lord. The first resurrection is simply physical. Nothing special about it. Because the Second Birth is the spiritual side of redemption. The first resurrection is the physical side of redemption. Obviously the rest of the dead have not experienced either the second birth nor the first resurrection.

You are trying to prove that God was totally finished with creation, and has walked away since the first century, and that is all the Bible has to offer.

There has been one harvest already. The church calls that "Christ the firstfruits". But every one interprets that defined reality by their own human understanding. The OT redeemed only needed the first resurrection. They already had the second birth naturally as natural branches not needing to be grafted in. The Covenant of the Law was sufficient as long as they remained obedient in faith. The rest of the dead still include thousands of OT Israel cut off and waiting for the GWT Judgment. They are the dead because they were cut off in unbelief and disobedience.

 

[3 Resurrections]

We are talking about the resurrections of all who have died, not one person.

There was more than just one person ("Christ the First-fruits") who was raised that same day. There were 144,000 more "First-fruits unto God and the Lamb" who were raised to immortal life that same day. These 144,000 "First-fruits" were the many Matthew 27:52-53 saints from those listed Jewish tribes who came out of their graves around Jerusalem and went into that city, to be seen of many. These individuals were the ones Hymenaeus and Philetus were referring to when they said that the resurrection was past already. Their error was in thinking that this group resurrection was the only one that would ever take place, when there would actually be another in the very near future (AD 70).

The title "First-fruits" is representative of a group that is harvested - not a single stalk of grain.

 

[3 Resurrections]

They lived as beheaded? Because the living part was after they are beheaded.

No, the "living and reigning" was done during their natural lifetime, and was BEFORE their martyrdom. Not all of these in Rev. 20:4 were martyred. Some living during the millennium years, like Daniel, died a natural death, but still did not worship that ancient Sea Beast which began with Nebuchadnezzar's first deportation of Jews from Jerusalem (including Daniel). John saw the souls of those who had once been martyred, and he also saw the souls of "those which had not worshipped the Sea Beast". This second category was not necessarily martyred as the others were. Like Daniel.

How do you define and include this judgment that you seem to keep ignoring?

I'm not "ignoring" anything. The thrones of Rev. 20:4 with those sitting on those thrones, and judgment given unto them was the twelve Apostles that Christ promised would sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribe of Israel after His resurrection (Matthew 19:28). During the days of the early church, the disciples were given the responsibility of establishing Christ's New Covenant doctrines in the early church, starting at Jerusalem. They decided issues of choosing deacons for helping widows, settling the circumcision debate, commissioning evangelists to go out, passing judgment on Ananias and Sapphira and Simon bar Giora, etc. This was when the twelve tribes were still present.

These "thrones" in Rev. 20:4 as the twelve enthroned disciples given the ability to pass judgment on the twelve tribes of Israel in the days of the early Jerusalem church links this entire passage with the "First resurrection" of Christ in AD 33. It was this group resurrection event in AD 33 in which Christ "sat on the throne of His glory" after His ascension (Acts 2:29-36). It was then at the "First resurrection" of "Christ the First-fruits" when the disciples were authorized by Christ to sit on those twelve thrones.

You are trying to prove that God was totally finished with creation, and has walked away since the first century, and that is all the Bible has to offer.

This is false. I have not said this. The single verse Revelation 10:4 with the sealed up prophecies that the seven thunders uttered (which John was forbidden to write down) shows us that there was going to be prophecy reserved for times future to the AD 70 period.

 

[ewq1938]

There was more than just one person ("Christ the First-fruits") who was raised that same day. .

We still aren't discussing that. You claim 3 resurrections when scripture only speaks of two. There have been MANY resurrections prior to the resurrection of Christ, and more when he resurrected but multiple passages still speak of only two. The reason for that is the focus on HUGE amounts of dead people being resurrected. That only happens two times.

The first resurrection is of ALL THE SAVED from all of human history. This happens at the second coming.
The next resurrection is for all of THE REST OF THE DEAD that did not resurrect with the saved dead. They are the unsaved dead, unbelievers and the wicked. All of them resurrect at a separate time.

 

[Timtofly]

No, the "living and reigning" was done during their natural lifetime, and was BEFORE their martyrdom. Not all of these in Rev. 20:4 were martyred. Some living during the millennium years, like Daniel, died a natural death, but still did not worship that ancient Sea Beast which began with Nebuchadnezzar's first deportation of Jews from Jerusalem (including Daniel). John saw the souls of those who had once been martyred, and he also saw the souls of "those which had not worshipped the Sea Beast". This second category was not necessarily martyred as the others were. Like Daniel.

I'm not "ignoring" anything. The thrones of Rev. 20:4 with those sitting on those thrones, and judgment given unto them was the twelve Apostles that Christ promised would sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribe of Israel after His resurrection (Matthew 19:28). During the days of the early church, the disciples were given the responsibility of establishing Christ's New Covenant doctrines in the early church, starting at Jerusalem. They decided issues of choosing deacons for helping widows, settling the circumcision debate, commissioning evangelists to go out, passing judgment on Ananias and Sapphira and Simon bar Giora, etc. This was when the twelve tribes were still present.

These "thrones" in Rev. 20:4 as the twelve enthroned disciples given the ability to pass judgment on the twelve tribes of Israel in the days of the early Jerusalem church links this entire passage with the "First resurrection" of Christ in AD 33. It was this group resurrection event in AD 33 in which Christ "sat on the throne of His glory" after His ascension (Acts 2:29-36). It was then at the "First resurrection" of "Christ the First-fruits" when the disciples were authorized by Christ to sit on those twelve thrones.

This is false. I have not said this. The single verse Revelation 10:4 with the sealed up prophecies that the seven thunders uttered (which John was forbidden to write down) shows us that there was going to be prophecy reserved for times future to the AD 70 period.

You keep saying the opposite of what John wrote. John said they were beheaded before they lived and reigned. Why is it hard to understand grammar? This resurrection in Revelation 20 was not representing the church nor even a segment of the church. These were those beheaded during the previous 42 months, which you change into something else other than what was written. No one is beheaded during the 1,000 years.

The point about those thrones is not who is on them, and you may be right. The point is that these thrones do not hand down this judgment until after the Second Coming.

You cannot use Revelation 10 to justify a futurist view. Those Thunders will sound before those in Revelation 20:4 are even beheaded. You have to have those Thunders in the first century as well, because they happen prior to the 7th Trumpet which sounds before those beheaded souls choose life over the mark of the beast. That life is by faith through the act of chopping one's head off. That is their alter call and testimony to Jesus Christ. They are not part of the church nor are ever said to be. They just get to reign with Christ, before the rest of the dead are given one final opportunity to live again themselves. Those who live again after the thousand years don't reign with Christ. They get to live on the New Earth outside of the New Jerusalem, and probably wishing they had not spent thousands of years in sheol, and wasted all that time. Except no one will remember their former selves in Adam's dead corruptible flesh, nor the time spent in sheol.

These beheaded souls cannot live and reign until after they are judged. They cannot be judged until after they are physically dead, and Satan is bound. They cannot physically die, until their head is cut off. They cannot chop off their head, until after the 7th Trumpet has sounded and Satan rules as the 8th king of the 8th world empire, after Jesus is pronounced the 7th King of the 7th Kingdom, when the 7th Trumpet sounds in Revelation 11. The 7th Trumpet only sounds after the 7 Thunders have sounded. John sees the events of the 7 Thunders and writes like he does after evey event when he starts out, "I saw...." Except when he starts to write this time, he was told not to write them down. What he witnessed, will be sealed until the actual events happen themselves. These events are written about in Matthew 13 as parables as well. The Thunders are the final harvest where Jesus Himself is on earth as King sowing the seeds for His Millennial Kingdom. The wheat and tares are removed prior to there even being beheaded souls, as seen in Revelation 20. So these events have not happened yet in Revelation, and none of them have to do with the first century one iota. The generation that sees the 7 Seals, will see the 7 Trumpets and 7 Thunders.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The first resurrection is of ALL THE SAVED from all of human history. This happens at the second coming.
The next resurrection is for all of THE REST OF THE DEAD that did not resurrect with the saved dead. They are the unsaved dead, unbelievers and the wicked. All of them resurrect at a separate time.

All of this above is wrong, according to Jesus in John 5:25-29. Jesus said, "The hour is coming, and NOW IS when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." This was an hour future to when Jesus was talking when the dead would rise to life again. But also, at the time Christ was speaking, individual dead saints were then being raised to immortal life by the ministry of Christ and the Apostles - which was the "NOW IS" part of Jesus's statement. In this verse, the hour that was coming for the righteous dead to live again was the Matthew 27:52-53 saints rising to live again on the same day as Christ's resurrection. This was not described as "ALL" the dead, because only saints participated in that resurrection event.

But Christ went further to describe yet another resurrection event coming: "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; AND they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." This was during the same single "HOUR" in which both righteous and evil dead would participate together in that particular resurrection event. You would like to divide this up into two separate resurrections (one for all the evil dead, and one for all the righteous dead), but Christ did not do that.

It is the same thing with the single Acts 24:15 resurrection which Paul told Felix was "ABOUT TO BE". In that single resurrection event, both the just AND the unjust would participate. This was the same as the AD 70 bodily resurrection event which Christ and the NT authors predicted for that first-century generation to experience.

Daniel 12:2 also wrote about that AD 70 bodily resurrection, with both good AND evil dead participating. And Daniel predicted the exact 1,335 day countdown to that resurrection. This countdown would begin with two particular historical events taking place together in the same season of time. We today can do the math and discover the actual date of Christ's second coming back in the first century. To be exact, it was on Pentecost day in AD 70, after counting down 1,335 days from when Jerusalem was first surrounded by armies in AD 66.

 

[3 Resurrections]

You keep saying the opposite of what John wrote. John said they were beheaded before they lived and reigned. Why is it hard to understand grammar?

No, John did not say that. He said he saw those who were beheaded, and then he proceeded to mention what they did during their natural lifetime before they were beheaded for the word of God. Their deaths by martyrdom took place at varying points during the millennium years.

These beheaded souls cannot live and reign until after they are judged.

When John wrote in Rev. 20:4 about those thrones, saying that "judgment was given unto them", this was the authority for those on the thrones to DO that judging of others. Just as the enthroned twelve Apostles were given authority by Christ to judge the twelve tribe of Israel during the years of the early church, just after Christ's resurrection and ascension to heaven, and after the millennium years were finished.

John sees the events of the 7 Thunders and writes like he does after evey event when he starts out, "I saw...." Except when he starts to write this time, he was told not to write them down. What he witnessed, will be sealed until the actual events happen themselves.

The prophecies of the seven thunders in Rev. 10:4 were sealed up so that they could be fulfilled at a later time than all the rest of Revelation's prophecies. Everything else would be unsealed and fulfilled in John's near future. John was quite clear in both his introduction and his conclusion to Revelation (Rev. 1:3 and 22:10) that everything else of his prophecies of future things that were "about to be" were then "at hand", or presently in the process of being fulfilled in his own days. This is simple grammar which shouldn't be that difficult to understand.

 

[Timtofly]

This is simple grammar which shouldn't be that difficult to understand.

Obviously your definition of simple grammer only works to prove your own bias. You have yet to prove the simple grammar in Revelation 20 means what you claim.

 

[ewq1938]

All of this above is wrong, according to Jesus in John 5:25-29. Jesus said, "The hour is coming, and NOW IS when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." This was an hour future to when Jesus was talking when the dead would rise to life again.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,



There will come a time/hour that all baseball teams will play against another team but that doesn't mean all on the same day. A time will come for all the dead to be raised. First, the dead in Christ rise, then after a thousand years "the rest of the dead" will rise. That's what we find when looking at all of the related passages. Leaving the most detailed passage out of this is clear error.

Another analogy:

"For the hour is coming, in which all who start and complete high school shall graduate."

No one would argue that every single person who completes high school will all graduate the same hour, or same day, or even the same year. Obviously, freshmen don't graduate when seniors do.



To understand this even more fully the word "hour" must be understood:

"hour" can be any amount of time since it can be literal or figurative:

G5610
??´?a
ho¯ra
ho'-rah
Apparently a primary word; an “hour” (literally or figuratively): - day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.
Total KJV occurrences: 108

It's been translated as hour, day and even season.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

So, in this unknown amount of time there will be two resurrections. First (called the first resurrection) the dead in Christ will be resurrected. Then much later in this same "hora", at it's end, will the second and last resurrection take place and that's "the rest of the dead" who did not rise with the first group.


Your name is wrong. There are two notable resurrections prophecy speaks of.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Your name is wrong. There are two notable resurrections prophecy speaks of.

Of course there were "two notable resurrections prophecy speaks of". But that doesn't limit the number of group resurrection events to only two.

If I had a family photo I was showing you, and I said, "These two kids are my grandchildren", this doesn't necessarily limit the number of my grandchildren to only two kids. Neither does the mention of two group resurrection events in scripture prohibit a third group resurrection event from occurring.

The two resurrection events upon which the scripture concentrated the most attention was necessary for that persecuted generation of believers, since there was "about to be" a resurrection of both the just and the unjust before their first-century generation had passed away. Of course the scriptures would give the most attention to this since it was on the near horizon for those who would be martyred in the early church. Just knowing that a bodily resurrection was soon coming for them at Christ second coming gave them the encouragement to persevere through some of the most daunting persecution periods they were then going to experience in the first century. The NT is full of this encouragement for the saints to remain faithful, even unto death, because they would soon receive the "crown of life" which would not pass away.

 

[Mr E]

Of course there were "two notable resurrections prophecy speaks of". But that doesn't limit the number of group resurrection events to only two.

Nor to three..... you get that right?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Nor to three..... you get that right?

God planned a massive group resurrection in AD 70 to put a wrap on all things Old Covenant related. He planned another final one in our future to resurrect the saints who will have lived exclusively under the New Covenant. It's like God authored a play with the title "Redemption", which has an Act 1, and then an Act II, with an intermission in the middle.

Or if you don't like that comparison, then I can use the parable Christ used about the kingdom of heaven being like leaven which a woman hid in three measures of meal until the whole was leavened. If you have ever seen someone make a decent loaf of bread from scratch, the bread dough has two risings, with the dough punched down flat and kneaded in between. In the first rising of the dough, there are huge unsightly holes of air pockets which are not well distributed throughout. In the second rising, the dough has been strengthened and given elasticity by the kneading process, and tiny air pockets are now finely distributed throughout the whole loaf. At the peak of this development of leaven in the dough, the loaf is baked and the growth of the leaven ceases.

In the first ages of humanity, God revealed Himself openly to only a few scattered individuals. The patriarchs and the people of Israel were in concentrated pockets only here and there, just like leaven in the first rising of the bread dough. Then came Christ and the effects of the gospel. Widespread persecution of the early church in the first century then appeared to flatten every evidence of God's people present in the world. But that pounding and pummeling of the "dough" merely served to strengthen the church and to drive the effects of the gospel further into the nations of the world. By the time of Christ's final return, that "dough" of humanity will have tiny "air pockets" of the gospel's influence which will completely fill the entire "loaf" with its effects. At this peak development of the kingdom of heaven in the world, Christ will return for the final time and the last resurrection event.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Not physically, no. I would answer your question with a question: Did Adam and Eve really die as God told Adam he would on the very day he ate from the forbidden tree (Genesis 2:17)? And, regarding us believers, Paul and Peter both say we were made alive when we were converted to Christ; Paul even explicitly says we were formerly dead like the rest of mankind before this happened to us…


Absolutely. Again, a question: Is God the god of unbelievers?


Well no… that’s a rather puzzling question to ask. Relevance?


Um… what? Is this like an invitation or something? :)


That he is. :) Just a little… He’snot alone; there’s plenty of that in this forum, that’s for sure… :)

Grace and peace to you!

Did Adam and Eve really die as God told Adam he would on the very day he ate from the forbidden tree

Yes… Depending on how one interprets scripture. What I would clarify though is that Adam indeed would have lived forever had he not sinned, for in Genesis 6:3 God announces that Adam's 'days' shall be 120 years. Adam died exactly 120 years from that time at the age of 930 years old. Is a day not a 1000 years?
Is God the god of unbelievers?

Is God the god of unbelievers?

Yes… But again interpretation of scripture.

Are unbelievers dead? Then one would say..
He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

However, if God is not the the God of the dead (unbelievers) then what are what are we to do with the following?

"To this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and of the living”