Passover vs Eucharist

[Marymog]

Because belief in the head is not trust in the heart. The belief necessary for salvation is more than head belief. As I said, it will produce changes in one's life, but the good fruit it produces is not our salvation.

LOL...I think Satan trusts in his heart that Christ is the son of God and Satan believes all the same things we Christians believe about Jesus. The only difference between Satan and a Christian is that Satan rejects Him. Sooooo, once again, your theory doesn’t work.

 

[Renniks]

I believe ALL of Scripture. Not the cherry picked passages that support what you personally believe instead of what Christ and the Apostles taught.

The real question is: Why don’t you believe ALL of Scripture?

Then you believe salvation is by grace through faith, nothing added. Because that's what is clearly taught by the scripture.

 

[Renniks]

LOL...I think Satan trusts in his heart that Christ is the son of God and Satan believes all the same things we Christians believe about Jesus. The only difference between Satan and a Christian is that Satan rejects Him. Sooooo, once again, your theory doesn’t work.

That makes absolutely no sense. You can't s simultaneously trust and reject Jesus. Trust is more than belief in certain facts. The kind of belief necessary includes trust, not just knowledge.

 

[Marymog]

Then you believe salvation is by grace through faith, nothing added. Because that's what is clearly taught by the scripture.

Faith without works is dead kiddo....Just like Scripture says so that destroys your “nothing added” theory.

Scripture says Baptism saves you...that destroys your theory.

Scripture says who endure to the end will be saved....that destroys your theory.

Scripture says that if you confess with your mouth you will be saved....that destroys your theory.

See what I mean by reading ALL of Scripture???

But I get it. You are following the teachings of Protestant men instead of the 2,000 year teaching of Christianity. Now that I have given you the truth I hope it will set you free. (John 8:32)

 

[Marymog]

That makes absolutely no sense. You can't s simultaneously trust and reject Jesus. Trust is more than belief in certain facts. The kind of belief necessary includes trust, not just knowledge.

Trust: firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability, or strength of someone or something.

Satan has firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability and strength of Jesus. So therefor Satan does “simultaneously trust and reject Jesus” :)

 

[Grailhunter]

A spiritual reality, not a physical reality. It's not physically flesh and blood. It's fruit of the vine and bread. Just as the spiritual reality is that Jesus is a door or gate to God's kingdom. He's not those things physically.

lol Spiritual and physical reality...It is more difficult for some to get a grip on what that means. Many...most juggle concepts and understandings. What is the reality of the spiritual? What is the substance of the water in the baptismal....What is the substance of the bread and wine....what is the substance of the blood that dripped from the cross....If stepping in the baptismal only get you wet...if the bread and wine ritual is about baked flour and fermented grapes...if the blood that dripped from the cross only stained the ground....We are all in trouble. Spiritual and physical, what affect does the spiritual have on the physical? Is it reality or make believe? We better hope it is some sort of reality.

Some people are never so blessed to see a healing. Some people have never been so blessed to speak in tongues. Some people have never felt the movement of the Holy Spirit. Some people have not seen angels. So can we blame them if they never experienced or saw a miracle that they do not believe in any spiritual event or substance. I have had so many that people actually ask me to pray for them to have some, and I am sure there are people out their that have been asked the same.

Do you believe? Do you believe in some of it? It is quite the leap to believe that someone's blood can save you. How strong is your belief? So believe that all you have to do is believe and you are saved....that Christ merely existed or what He said? how much do you believe....is it enough?

 

[Renniks]

Faith without works is dead kiddo....Just like Scripture says so that destroys your “nothing added” theory.

I'm over 50, not a kiddo... And no, it doesn't. Real faith will produce works, that's not adding to faith only for salvation.

Scripture says Baptism saves you...that destroys your theory.

No it doesn't. In fact it says the water doesn't save you, in the very verse you all mis use.

Scripture says who endure to the end will be saved....that destroys your theory.

No it doesn't, because you will endure only if your faith endures. It's still faith that is saving you, not works.

Scripture says that if you confess with your mouth you will be saved....that destroys your theory.

Yes, you will have a testimony if your faith is sincere. How about if you are a mute? Is using a mouth to confess the only way?
Acts 16:30-31 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Baptism, confession by mouth or writing or however, are things we do after salvation.

See what I mean by reading ALL of Scripture???

But I get it. You are following the teachings of Protestant men instead of the 2,000 year teaching of Christianity. Now that I have given you the truth I hope it will set you free. (John 8:32)

I do read it all. And the bottom line is depending on your works will make Christ of no use to you.
" This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[Renniks]

Do you believe? Do you believe in some of it? It is quite the leap to believe that someone's blood can save you. How strong is your belief? So believe that all you have to do is believe and you are saved....that Christ merely existed or what He said? how much do you believe....is it enough?

Of course I believe his blood saves me. His real blood. This has no bearing on the wine having to be blood. We aren't called to be vampires.

 

[Renniks]

Trust: firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability, or strength of someone or something.

Satan has firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability and strength of Jesus. So therefor Satan does “simultaneously trust and reject Jesus” :)

Does he? Does he trust in those things for his salvation? Don't be silly.

 

[Grailhunter]

Of course I believe his blood saves me. His real blood. This has no bearing on the wine having to be blood. We aren't called to be vampires.

Don't you think the blood thing is pretty grose!? Could you explain how sticky blood could save you? The Jews use to rub it on themselves. Christ told us to drink His blood. Do you think He was of the occult? Then He made them do it! How grose! Was He sick! Do you think he just like to pretend people were eating His body and drinking His blood? What do ya think there grasshopper? If it has powers, oh my gosh! Maybe it came from a vampire? Was Christ a vampire? He seemed to be all about blood! Is it going to make us vampires? Maybe you believe that the whole saving grace thing is a kin to witchcraft. Maybe we need to drop the whole blood saving thing completely....and don't believe anything about salvation if it has to deal with blood!

 

[Renniks]

Don't you think the blood thing is pretty grose!? Could you explain how sticky blood could save you? The Jews use to rub it on themselves. Christ told us to drink His blood. Do you think He was of the occult? Then He made them do it! How grose! Was He sick! Do you think he just like to pretend people were eating His body and drinking His blood? What do ya think there grasshopper? If it has powers, oh my gosh! Maybe it came from a vampire? Was Christ a vampire? He seemed to be all about blood! Is it going to make us vampires? Maybe you believe that the whole saving grace thing is a kin to witchcraft. Maybe we need to drop the whole blood saving thing completely....and don't believe anything about salvation if it has to deal with blood!

You are spouting nonsense. Jesus didn't make anyone drink blood. He poured wine, he didn't slash his veins. I don't think that blood saving us is gross. I also don't see any evidence that we have to literally have blood sprinkled on us, when Christ already poured out his to make those rituals obselete.
It's spiritual, not physical. We don't physically eat the man's flesh.

 

[Marymog]

I'm over 50, not a kiddo... And no, it doesn't. Real faith will produce works, that's not adding to faith only for salvation.

No it doesn't. In fact it says the water doesn't save you, in the very verse you all mis use.

No it doesn't, because you will endure only if your faith endures. It's still faith that is saving you, not works.

Yes, you will have a testimony if your faith is sincere. How about if you are a mute? Is using a mouth to confess the only way?
Acts 16:30-31 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Baptism, confession by mouth or writing or however, are things we do after salvation.


I do read it all. And the bottom line is depending on your works will make Christ of no use to you.
" This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Lol....I use kiddo as a friendly term. I see you didn’t take it that way. It seems your were offended. If so I apologize.

What I wrote is what Scripture says: “baptism now saves you” 1 Peter 3:21
“But he who endures to the end shall be saved.“ Matthew 24:13
“Confess with your mouth....thou shall be saved” Romans 10:9

And your response is “No, it doesn’t..”??? What a bizarre and dishonest response. You can deny and twist Scripture all you want. It does not change what it says.

YUP...that’s what Acts 16 says.....You are right. All one has to do is believe. You win.

BTW....Peter is Satan and there is no way you can deny that. After all, that’s what Scripture says.

Keeping it real......Mary

 

[Grailhunter]

You are spouting nonsense. Jesus didn't make anyone drink blood. He poured wine, he didn't slash his veins. I don't think that blood saving us is gross. I also don't see any evidence that we have to literally have blood sprinkled on us, when Christ already poured out his to make those rituals obselete.
It's spiritual, not physical. We don't physically eat the man's flesh.

Spouting real sense but you cannot take it. This is my blood. Maybe you believe in a liar god, Maybe you do not know what you believe? Lets see.... Explain in detail how the dripping blood of Christ could save you? Yahweh is a wrathful God, explain how killing His Son could better our relationship? Explain why Christ's disciples abandoned Him over the ritual of bread and wine? Explain why He gave His Apostles no choice? Explain why Christ insisted on them performing something so overtly sacrilegious to their beliefs? Lets hear your non-sense.

 

[Renniks]

Lol....I use kiddo as a friendly term. I see you didn’t take it that way. It seems your were offended. If so I apologize.

What I wrote is what Scripture says: “baptism now saves you” 1 Peter 3:21
“But he who endures to the end shall be saved.“ Matthew 24:13
“Confess with your mouth....thou shall be saved” Romans 10:9

And your response is “No, it doesn’t..”??? What a bizarre and dishonest response. You can deny and twist Scripture all you want. It does not change what it says.

YUP...that’s what Acts 16 says.....You are right. All one has to do is believe. You win.

BTW....Peter is Satan and there is no way you can deny that. After all, that’s what Scripture says.

Keeping it real......Mary

I guess I expected some real interaction, not just quoted pieces of verses. Anyone can take snippets out of context and slap em down like playing cards, that is not rightly dividing the word.
Peter 3:21, NLT: "And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

What saves you? Your response to God, not the removal of dirt from being dunked.

" the word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Pretty self explanatory that the speaking isn't what saves but the faith. But you can cross reference plenty of other verses to confirm this. Such as:
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already."
1 John 4:2
Those that are of God will obviously confess Jesus. And by quoting this verse, you are arguing against your salvation by works theology, BTW.

 

[Renniks]

Spouting real sense but you cannot take it. This is my blood. Maybe you believe in a liar god, Maybe you do not know what you believe? Lets see.... Explain in detail how the dripping blood of Christ could save you? Yahweh is a wrathful God, explain how killing His Son could better our relationship? Explain why Christ's disciples abandoned Him over the ritual of bread and wine? Explain why He gave His Apostles no choice? Explain why Christ insisted on them performing something so overtly sacrilegious to their beliefs? Lets hear your non-sense.

The blood of Christ saves because the blood symbolizes his complete and perfect sacrifice for our sins.
1 Peter 1:18-19, “For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid was not mere gold or silver. He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.”

Every human born has sinned against God and fallen short of His standard (Romans 3:23). We do not and cannot earn salvation by doing good works.
The act of communion does not save us, but it is a wonderful gift from God with as a way to remember His sacrifice.
John the Baptist called Jesus the “Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world” (John 1:29). The Lamb of course, referenced the unblemished animal sacrifice of the old testament.
And in John 6:40, Jesus says that all who believe in Him will receive everlasting life -- with Him.We are only asked to believe (have faith), repent (turn from sin), and receive salvation through Jesus. Have you done this, or are you counting on your works to save you?

Those who abandoned him were following him for the food.
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. " Follow John 6 all the way through, instead of picking out verses and you will see that Jesus is equating eating his flesh with believing in him. This passage isn't about Communion.
I don't know what you mean about no choice, since some Catholic seem to believe he gave Judas the choice to partake or not. Where was any one forced to partake?

 

[Philip James]

Jesus is equating eating his flesh with believing in him.

Indeed...

This passage isn't about Communion.

??

'this is My Body, take and eat'

'this is My Blood, take and drink'

Can you say you believe in Him and not eat His flesh?

As you said:

'Jesus is equating eating his flesh with believing in him.'

Peace!

 

[Grailhunter]

The blood of Christ saves because the blood symbolizes his complete and perfect sacrifice for our sins.
1 Peter 1:18-19, “For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid was not mere gold or silver. He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.”

Every human born has sinned against God and fallen short of His standard (Romans 3:23). We do not and cannot earn salvation by doing good works.
The act of communion does not save us, but it is a wonderful gift from God with as a way to remember His sacrifice.
John the Baptist called Jesus the “Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world” (John 1:29). The Lamb of course, referenced the unblemished animal sacrifice of the old testament.
And in John 6:40, Jesus says that all who believe in Him will receive everlasting life -- with Him.We are only asked to believe (have faith), repent (turn from sin), and receive salvation through Jesus. Have you done this, or are you counting on your works to save you?

Those who abandoned him were following him for the food.
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. " Follow John 6 all the way through, instead of picking out verses and you will see that Jesus is equating eating his flesh with believing in him. This passage isn't about Communion.
I don't know what you mean about no choice, since some Catholic seem to believe he gave Judas the choice to partake or not. Where was any one forced to partake?

The blood of Christ saves because the blood symbolizes his complete and perfect sacrifice for our sins.
lol One of the most common failures of biblical study is superimposing your beliefs on and above the scriptures. Please provide a scripture that specifically states that He paid for you with the “symbolic” precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.”

This scriptures --> He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. Proves my point, not yours.

We do not and cannot earn salvation by doing good works.
Define “works” Believing is an action.

The act of communion does not save us, but it is a wonderful gift from God with as a way to remember His sacrifice. John the Baptist called Jesus the “Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world”

Straight up, the bread and wine ritual does not save us but, what condition are we in if we are saved but….He does not abide in us or us in Him, there is no life in us, and He does not raise us up on the last day….you need to read the scripture….

Jesus says that all who believe in Him will receive everlasting life
Define belief….believe in Him and live like you want? Do not do what He says? Do not pay any attention to what He says? Go live in a closet?

John 6:53 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. Do you know what it means when Christ said truly, truly.

I don't know what you mean about no choice,

His disciples left Him...no longer walked with Him... and He asked His Apostles if they wanted to leave. No choice given. Then He performed the ritual at the Last Supper.

 

[Renniks]

Indeed...



??

'this is My Body, take and eat'

'this is My Blood, take and drink'

Can you say you believe in Him and not eat His flesh?

As you said:

'Jesus is equating eating his flesh with believing in him.'

Peace!

The John 6 passage isn't about Communion, it's about belief in him. Of course you can believe in him and not take communion. But you have to partake by trusting him. Jesus said at the supper to do this to remember him, not for salvation.

 

[Renniks]

The blood of Christ saves because the blood symbolizes his complete and perfect sacrifice for our sins.
lol One of the most common failures of biblical study is superimposing your beliefs on and above the scriptures. Please provide a scripture that specifically states that He paid for you with the “symbolic” precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.”

This scriptures --> He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. Proves my point, not yours.

We do not and cannot earn salvation by doing good works.
Define “works” Believing is an action.

The act of communion does not save us, but it is a wonderful gift from God with as a way to remember His sacrifice. John the Baptist called Jesus the “Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world”

Straight up, the bread and wine ritual does not save us but, what condition are we in if we are saved but….He does not abide in us or us in Him, there is no life in us, and He does not raise us up on the last day….you need to read the scripture….

Jesus says that all who believe in Him will receive everlasting life
Define belief….believe in Him and live like you want? Do not do what He says? Do not pay any attention to what He says? Go live in a closet?

John 6:53 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. Do you know what it means when Christ said truly, truly.

I don't know what you mean about no choice,

His disciples left Him...no longer walked with Him... and He asked His Apostles if they wanted to leave. No choice given. Then He performed the ritual at the Last Supper.

You are confusing the John 6 passage with the last supper. Nothing about Communion, in John 6. Again, you warp what I said. I didn't say his blood was not real. I said it symbolizes his sacrifice. If he spilt some blood, but didn't die, it would not have purchased our redemption.

 

[Philip James]

The John 6 passage isn't about Communion, it's about belief in him

It isnt either/or, it is both!

'Jesus is equating eating his flesh with believing in him.'

How do we eat His flesh?

'this is My Body, take and eat'

If we believe, we will act accordingly!

Peace be with you!