OSAS is the result of the finished work of the cross

[Taken]

I agree. This is what I would call free agency. Not free will. But still, I get the point.

I favor the words, will, choose, election...r
Rather than "agent", that indicates to me more of a "middle man" acting on your behalf to "choose and elect" for you.

My Preference, and why.

John 7:17
If any man will do his will....

Josh 24:15
.. choose you this day whom ye will serve;

1 Thes 1:4
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Mjh29]

I favor the words, will, choose, election...r
Rather than "agent", that indicates to me more of a "middle man" acting on your behalf to "choose and elect" for you.

My Preference, and why.

John 7:17
If any man will do his will....

Josh 24:15
.. choose you this day whom ye will serve;

1 Thes 1:4
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

I agree, and probably miscommunicatied. Free agency is the ability to chose for yourself things like what to wear, where to go, what movie to watch, ect. But our wills have been corrupted by sin, and in order to come to Christ, God must change the old, sinful will into one that loves Him. Once he changes your will you then want to choose him. I guess you could say that we don't have a free will, but rather God frees our wills.

And Merry Christmas to you as well!

 

[bbyrd009]

te gift is free though, no cigar
?

ah, what is the gift, again?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Ditto. :)



I had no doubt.



Yes. A Person, saved or not, is responsible for their "actions": person to person.
<Jane snip for length>

Ummm... ok, my understanding got totally lost here. Could you give me a short condensed answer just to my questions?

Seeking clarification of your beliefs here: do you believe a Christian is culpable for their actions? Particularly the things they do which are not align with Christ's ways?

 

[Helen]

Salvation is something you have by faith. If your faith fails, ie if you do not complete the race, will you still have assurance of salvation....will you still have salvation?

Intersting point.

It made me think of Peter...he lost his faith on the water. He lost his faith when he denied the Lord.

I believe that he never 'lost' his calling. I believe that once we have 'heard the voice' however far away we get , like the lost sheep of the 99 ...my faith is in HIM not in me, to get me to the end...He will seek out the strays ...and just like Acts 27.
I love that 'picture' there in the scripture. 44 " And the rest, some on boards, and some on broken pieces of the ship. And so it came to pass, that they all escaped all safe to land."
That is my hope anyway.
I believe He is a a very Good and faithful shepherd. :)

 

[Helen]

Once again...as with so many other subjects.
There will always be the believers and the non believers , on this subject also. :)

 

[Heb 13:8]

You need to go back somewhat to ear lier in the chapter to get some context...

KJV Ephesians 4
Live as God's People
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

Notice what Paul is saying here. Don't walk as the gentiles walk... alienated from the life of God. Then he went on to describe all the things that characterise a life that separates someone from God. Lying, stealing etc etc etc. Paul is saying that Christians who practice such things are no different from unbelievers. They are not "saved". Paul is telling believers that they must put that life behind them. He wasn't giving them a choice... He quoted several of the commandments and several things Jesus spoke of in his sermons. A life of sin cancels any profession of belief.

That's correct. Sanctification, discipline and godly sorrow will eventually catch up to you through His teachings. Tell me, does being a prisoner for the Lord involve saving yourself or being obedient out of thankfulness to the cross.

Eph 4:1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received.

Eph 4:21-22 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

 

[Heb 13:8]

But @Heb 13:8 you didn't address my question as to the so called "finished work of the cross". I put it to you that whatever finished work you think you believe in regarding a person's ultimate Salvation, was not finished at the cross.

But it is finished at the cross, remember we're obedient out of thankfulness to the cross not to save ourselves. God bless u

 

[Heb 13:8]

ah, what is the gift, again?

wut do you think bb -eternal life with Jesus Christ.

 

[Taken]

Ummm... ok, my understanding got totally lost here. Could you give me a short condensed answer just to my questions?

Yes.

Seeking clarification of your beliefs here: do you believe a Christian is culpable for their actions?

Culpable means to be blamed.
Not especially.

I would say, more so to be accountable...and thus suffer the Consequences.

Over all, yes.

Particularly the things they do which are not align with Christ's ways?

No, Not particularly. Still accountable? Yes.


God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Yes.



Culpable means to be blamed.
Not especially.

I would say, more so to be accountable...and thus suffer the Consequences.

Over all, yes.



No, Not particularly. Still accountable? Yes.


God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

Ah, this shorter response is so much easier to take in! Thank you.

Double checking I understand you right:

Culpable means to be blamed.
Not especially.

I would say, more so to be accountable...and thus suffer the Consequences.

Over all, yes.


No, Not particularly. Still accountable? Yes.

So a Christian who sins is not to be blamed for it, but they are still accountable for their actions and suffer the consequences.
Correct?

 

[bbyrd009]

wut do you think bb -eternal life with Jesus Christ.

and you believe joining Team Christian and making a little profession of faith gets you into
Narrow is the path, and few there are who find it?

and by "eternal" i take it you really mean "immortal," but one hairball at a time i guess

anyway that's great, ok, that is a fab starting point imo, and i know you prolly doubt this coming from me now but i really do hope i have it wrong, Heb, and that you actually can get the part of you that has separated from God into heaven after you die, ok, your "I" iow.

But fwiw i'd start looking for Plan B, ok
it's in There

 

[Heb 13:8]

and you believe joining Team Christian and making a little profession of faith gets you into
Narrow is the path, and few there are who find it?

littul profession turned into "belief in the heart. God loves u bbyrd

 

[bbyrd009]

littul profession turned into "belief in the heart. God loves u bbyrd

you too Heb, but i would sure go be reading more about the heart, which is deceptive above all things, last time i checked anyway

 

[Heb 13:8]

you too Heb, but i would sure go be reading more about the heart, which is deceptive above all things, last time i checked anyway

i know right, ht heart can deceive itself into thinking it not finish

 

[brakelite]

Intersting point.

It made me think of Peter...he lost his faith on the water. He lost his faith when he denied the Lord.

I believe that he never 'lost' his calling. I believe that once we have 'heard the voice' however far away we get , like the lost sheep of the 99 ...my faith is in HIM not in me, to get me to the end...He will seek out the strays ...and just like Acts 27.
I love that 'picture' there in the scripture. 44 " And the rest, some on boards, and some on broken pieces of the ship. And so it came to pass, that they all escaped all safe to land."
That is my hope anyway.
I believe He is a a very Good and faithful shepherd. :)

With Peter though he realised his predicament, and cried out "save me Lord!". Not everyone does.

 

[brakelite]

i know right, ht heart can deceive itself into thinking it not finish

It isn't finished yet. Remember I mentioned the OT sanctuary? The priest slew the animal outside the temple. Did that single action bring to the sinner what he needed?
What benefit would there have been to the sinner if the priest had not taken the blood into the sanctuary?

 

[Heb 13:8]

It isn't finished yet. Remember I mentioned the OT sanctuary? The priest slew the animal outside the temple. Did that single action bring to the dinner what he needed?
What benefit would there have been to the sinner if the priest had not taken the blood into the sanctuary?

Well, it is finished ;Jesus blood put away sacrificing goats for sin, you lucky ur neighbors aint colling the cops on u

 

[brakelite]

Well, it is finished ;Jesus blood put away sacrificing goats for sin, you lucky ur neighbors aint colling the cops on u

Lol. I think you know what I am talking about. But in case I am mistaken, and you do actually believe I have a paddock full of get out of jail free cards grazing behind the house, the OT services were a type of NT realities. Jesus was indeed sacrificed outside the temple. And just add the blood of the lamb need to be taken into the sanctuary and was sprinkled before the veil, so also did Jesus enter the real heavenly temple to appear before His Father that the sacrifice be accepted and the merits of the blood be applied to repentant sinners. The Cross was not the end of the story. The redemption process continues today with Christ our High Priest mediating on our behalf just add the OT high priest did for Israel.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Lol. I think you know what I am talking about. But in case I am mistaken, and you do actually believe I have a paddock full of get out of jail free cards grazing behind the house, the OT services were a type of NT realities. Jesus was indeed sacrificed outside the temple. And just add the blood of the lamb need to be taken into the sanctuary and was sprinkled before the veil, so also did Jesus enter the real heavenly temple to appear before His Father that the sacrifice be accepted and the merits of the blood be applied to repentant sinners. The Cross was not the end of the story. The redemption process continues today with Christ our High Priest mediating on our behalf just add the OT high priest did for Israel.

Right, te story continues through sanctification, discipline and godly sorrow.