OSAS is the result of the finished work of the cross

[amadeus]

so you lose, but you win!

Amen!
Give God the glory!

 

[Dave L]

When a person is in the place where he is truly praying without ceasing and is truly rejoicing in the Lord always, then I believe that he is in no danger of giving away or losing salvation. I cannot definitely say that I have even met a single person in such a continuous 24/7 mode of prayer and rejoicing. This doesn't mean that no one will ultimately be with God always, but it means, I believe, that God wants to see what we really will do with what we have been given as we are provided the opportunity. The Way really is easy as Jesus has said, but none, or at least very few, are willing to give up everything they have in order to follow him.

The way I see it, if you have the Holy Spirit you will pray without ceasing and hate sin as your greatest threat and enemy.

 

[amadeus]

The way I see it, if you have the Holy Spirit you will pray without ceasing and hate sin as your greatest threat and enemy.

I would then say that according to or by Wisdom we should or would kill by the Holy Spirit and/or the Word of God, our greatest enemies, the beasts within ourselves which when they have the lead will take us into sin repeatedly.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

It actually strengthens the relationship. Christ comes before us.

On that, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you.

Christ comes first when we continually give ourselves to Christ. Every single day renew our pledge, renew our love --- just as He continually does with us.

OSAS... I find that it minimizes that love and devotion, ironically making the preoccupation about "Am I really saved" rather than just truly loving the savior and building the relationship with Him.

 

[amadeus]

The problem with OSAS and predestination is that it negates need for a person to truly accept Christ-- a love that's freely and continually given. It cheapens the relationship between Christ and individuals.

It puts us ahead of where Adam and Eve were before they disobeyed God and that, I believe, is wrong.

Adam and Eve were sinless before that disobedience. Yet, they lost an important opportunity which being born again has given back to us... to eat of the Tree of Life. A person really born again is back where Adam and Eve were. He now has the opportunity to eat of the right tree, the Tree of Life. That is all being born again is, a renewed opportunity to walk through the Door/Gate that God closed when Adam and Eve put out of the garden of Eden. Walking through that Door/Gate he may if he qualifies eat of the Tree of Life:

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

Jesus made it possible for us to be overcomers so as to qualify, but WE must do it. People may call it works, but it is work that is now possible because Jesus came. Whether we choose to pursue it or not is still up to us... even in our renewed state.

A born again person is renewed, but it is only renewed opportunity for Life. He still has to eat of the Tree of Life rather than partaking again of the same tree his first parents chose.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

It puts us ahead of where Adam and Eve were before they disobeyed God and that, I believe, is wrong.

Adam and Eve were sinless before that disobedience. Yet, they lost an important opportunity which being born again has given back to us... to eat of the Tree of Life. A person really born again is back where Adam and Eve were. He now has the opportunity to eat of the right tree, the Tree of Life. That is all being born again is, a renewed opportunity to walk through the Door/Gate that God closed when Adam and Eve put out of the garden of Eden. Walking through that Door/Gate he may if he qualifies eat of the Tree of Life:

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

Jesus made it possible for us to be overcomers so as to qualify, but WE must do it. People may call it works, but it is work that is now possible because Jesus came. Whether we choose to pursue it or not is still up to us... even in our renewed state.

A born again person is renewed, but it is only renewed opportunity for Life. He still has to eat of the Tree of Life rather than partaking again of the same tree his first parents chose.

Personally, I find the "faith vs works" argument to be very much a word-games based red herring.

We ALL believe that it's impossible for man to save themselves.
We ALL believe that Christ is the one that does the saving.
We ALL believe that a person must accept Christ is order to be saved (accepting Christ is an action, and we each must do it).

There are disagreements on what's involved with accepting Christ. But let's talk about those real beliefs/disagreements and not waste time with pretending someone believes they're going to save themselves.

 

[Heb 13:8]

straight comedy, Heb, ty

lol thank you,, yea the power of God is funy

1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Christ comes first when we continually give ourselves to Christ. Every single day renew our pledge, renew our love --- just as He continually does with us.

well, fortunately for believers in Christ,. salvation is not about them, it's about what Christ already did for them

 

[Episkopos]

The work has already been done, so let us rest in His work. OSAS is not a doctrine, it's rather the result of what Jesus already did for us. The carnal mind can't conceive that it is finished or that the gift of salvation is free, so those who oppose it place a price tag on themselves. , they work for the gift not knowing they're in defiance to God and the work He already did.

They fear God instead of seeing Him as a friend, instead of accepting the truth that has been given to them through the internet. I suppose there is no difference in the Pharisee up in Jesus face 2000 year ago and Thomas wanting to see the nail marks in His hand vs his saints on the internet sharing the truth. Blessed is the one who does not see and yet believes.

Still, in all this defiance over centuries, God still loves them. All He requires is for us to believe in what He did, but we can't even do that right. We have to hold on to ourselves, our pride, ego, our world power. But don't you see, that's what is killing you. There is no truth in you unless you are born of God, He is the only truth in the end.

We have all fallen short of the Glory of God, even one sin that you've committed in your entire life places you in enmity with God and his saints. So how does one reconcile himself back to God, through belief in who Jesus says He is. He is God in the flesh who has died for your sins and has risen!. Don't just hear it, receive it.

Disobedience is not trusting in the finished work of the cross, they say disobedience is lack of daily repentance, following commandments etc etc... but they don't realize that what their preaching is actually the disobedience they obtain too, worshiping Christ without actually having Christ. Loss of salvation is the defiance, not trusting in what He already did for you. That's how the devil works, he reverses the truth because he opposes God and the victory that's already won.

It's not that the devil doesn't want you to know the truth, but rather he doesn't want you to receive it because you're already his. The hardest thing to do is believe and walk away from everything that you think is truth, so walk away and let's be friends in Christ.

Jesus did His part...and when we are put to death as He was then we too can see...it is finished.

I think it is the very depth of error to make silly religious dogmas that destroy the truth that we must follow after Christ and be conformed to Him through much tribulation.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

The problem with all modern doctrine is that it is from the perspective of the carnal mind of they who live according to the flesh even as they are puffed up by religious thinking...not understanding the will of God. The man of flesh is looking for a guarantee of a free pass to salvation. But the one who lives according to the flesh will die...in spite of all the religious protests to the contrary.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

well, fortunately for believers in Christ,. salvation is not about them, it's about what Christ already did for them

Again, I respect t that OSAS is your belief. I've just seen such a belief do a LOT of harm to lots of different Christians, in many different walks of life.

Personally, I'd rather just keep my focus on being devoted to God every day.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Jesus did His part...and when we are put to death as He was then we too can see...it is finished.

I think it is the very depth of error to make silly religious dogmas that destroy the truth that we must follow after Christ and be conformed to Him through much tribulation.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

The problem with all modern doctrine is that it is from the perspective of the carnal mind of they who live according to the flesh even as they are puffed up by religious thinking...not understanding the will of God. The man of flesh is looking for a guarantee of a free pass to salvation. But the one who lives according to the flesh will die...in spite of all the religious protests to the contrary.

yeah, i mean they profess with their lips that it is finished, but according to the modern doctrine of non-osas it is not finished

 

[Heb 13:8]

Again, I respect t that OSAS is your belief. I've just seen such a belief do a LOT of harm to lots of different Christians, in many different walks of life.

well it's not really a belief. Jesus dying on the cross for the sins of the world is history

 

[Jane_Doe22]

yeah, i mean they profess with their lips that it is finished, but according to the modern doctrine of non-osas it is not finished

^This is not an accurate representation on non-OSAS beliefs. Again, I respect that you believe OSAS, but please don't misrepresent other people's beliefs.

 

[Heb 13:8]

^This is not an accurate representation on non-OSAS beliefs. Again, I respect that you believe OSAS, but please don't misrepresent other people's beliefs.

I think it is, it's up to us to keep our salvation. but the focus is on the cross not us

 

[Episkopos]

yeah, i mean they profess with their lips that it is finished, but according to the modern doctrine of non-osas it is not finished

Jesus' part is finished. The people who do not follow Christ stay where they are and claim that Jesus walked in the Spirit for them. They stay static and use false teachings to support their lack of walk.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I think it is, it's up to us to keep our salvation. but the focus is on the cross not us

Vast majority of non-OSAS Christians (including myself) don't go about their lives worrying about "am I saved or still saved or do X in or to be saved right". That's just not a non-OSAS person's focus. Rather, the focus is simply on Christ and loving/following Him continually.

It's very inaccurate to say that "non-OSAS people are by default self-focused or not looking to Christ"

 

[Heb 13:8]

Jesus' part is finished. The people who do not follow Christ stay were they are and claim that Jesus walked in the Spirit for them. They stay static and use false teachings to support their lack of walk.

well, believers do follow Christ because Christ never leaves them, Eph 1:13-14. we just don't confuse sanctification, discipline and godly sorrow with works or losing salvation

 

[Heb 13:8]

That's just not a non-OSAS person's focus. Rather, the focus is simply on Christ and loving/following Him continually.

If the focus is on Christ then why u keep putting it on yourself. Jesus saves, but...... Jesus saves only if......

 

[Episkopos]

Vast majority of non-OSAS Christians (including myself) don't go about their lives worrying about "am I saved or still saved or do X in or to be saved right". That's just not a non-OSAS person's focus. Rather, the focus is simply on Christ and loving/following Him continually.

Amen. Only the flesh looks for an imaginary line in the sand that once they cross over once that part of life is done with. The walk with God is an ongoing deepening of relationship. Who gets married and thinks...there that's all I ever have to do with my wife (or husband)...just cross that off the list?

 

[Episkopos]

well, believers do follow Christ because Christ never leaves them, Eph 1:13-14. we just don't confuse sanctification, discipline and godly sorrow with works or losing salvation

You are not saying anything about following Christ. You would see following Christ as a work...which it is. It is a work that gives salvation... real salvation. Not the false assurance you are speaking of for remaining in the power of your flesh.