Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[bbyrd009]

Where in the Bible does it say that we will be with Satan?

or "will be" anywhere, for that matter

 

[GodsGrace]

Where in the Bible does it say that we will be with Satan?

Jesus spoke about a place where there will be gnashing of teeth.
Where we will be shut out.
He spoke about it specifically in Luke 16:19-31
There will definitely be a place where God does NOT reside.
You don't believe this?

In John 5 Jesus speaks of a place of resurrection, where we come back into our bodies, and also a place of judgement -- this is in the NASB.
The NIV says a place of condemnation. That is certainly not heaven...

 

[bbyrd009]

What in the world is gehenna?
Speak english if you can.

lol, exactly, English is how you got "hell," see.
Completely diff concept than Gehenna, which is what the Lex and the original mss provide for...anyone,
Matthew 10:28 Lexicon: "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

"world" is actually prolly a better rendition than "hell," even

 

[GodsGrace]

or "will be" anywhere, for that matter

You believe in annhiialism?
(can't spell it no matter how hard I try)

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

or "will be" anywhere, for that matter

Revelation says we will be thrown into the Lake of Fire
Doesn't say the devil will be the boss down there or that we will even meet him

 

[GodsGrace]

well, that's what ppl keep saying anyway, ya.
there seems to be an exception for every rule though huh
imo humility seems to be a better marker than knowledge

I agree bb.
But without knowledge I might just believe anyone who comes along and says what they have to say: Be it wrong or right...

 

[GodsGrace]

Revelation says we will be thrown into the Lake of Fire
Doesn't say the devil will be the boss down there or that we will even meet him

This is too funny.

Some believe the Lake of Fire is ONLY for satan and his angels.
The ONLY place in the bible that actually speaks of hell, as we understand it, in in 2 Peter 2:4. The actual word is Tartarus.

 

[bbyrd009]

You believe in annhiialism?
(can't spell it no matter how hard I try)

i used to, but decided i better lose that belief too, or risk not being open to a better truth.
i just stick with "we do not yet know.." now.

but imo it should be obvious on some level that ppl are mostly all dying to get that part of them that is supposed to die before they really die into some place after they die, right.

Lot of assumptions being made there, right in the face of Understand I AM, if you ask me anyway
the dead know nothing

 

[bbyrd009]

Revelation says we will be thrown into the Lake of Fire

well, i don't suggest ignoring Revelation 20:15, but i would interpret it within a certain frame--the Revelation of Christ--i mean after all anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life right now is thrown into a lake of fire too, so to speak, as...unsatisfying as that is to a certain perspective (who could not explain or describe Christ's "baptism of fire" either, see)

 

[GodsGrace]

i used to, but decided i better lose that belief too, or risk not being open to a better truth.
i just stick with "we do not yet know.." now.

but imo it should be obvious on some level that ppl are mostly all dying to get that part of them that is supposed to die before they really die into some place after they die, right.

Lot of assumptions being made there, right in the face of Understand I AM, if you ask me anyway
the dead know nothing

Another question:
Do we go to heaven right away or at the resurrection?
I think right away, but I have to agree with you, nothing was made absolutely clear about this. I do think that if we have a spirit that spirit cannot die -- so we'd have to be someplace, right?

 

[bbyrd009]

Doesn't say the devil will be the boss down there or that we will even meet him

sure doesn't, huh. looks like he gets tossed in, too!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

This is too funny.

Some believe the Lake of Fire is ONLY for satan and his angels.
The ONLY place in the bible that actually speaks of hell, as we understand it, in in 2 Peter 2:4. The actual word is Tartarus.

"

well, i don't suggest ignoring Revelation 20:15, but i would interpret it within a certain frame--the Revelation of Christ--i mean after all anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life right now is thrown into a lake of fire too, so to speak, as...unsatisfying as that is to a certain perspective (who could not explain or describe Christ's "baptism of fire" either, see)

You believe with your faith, or else none of this makes sense

 

[bbyrd009]

I agree bb.
But without knowledge I might just believe anyone who comes along and says what they have to say: Be it wrong or right...

here's an interesting thing i just learned about that, this past week; you may as well believe that they believe what they are saying, right, bc you prolly aren't gonna change their minds in one convo anyway; and why make enemies when you can make friends? We are told many times that God judges hearts, and to not even debate (at least several) beliefs, concerning holidays etc, and to not judge another's servant, etc, right?

So i wonder now if that is what the Parable of the Good Manager is really saying, being as how oil and wheat are symbolic:
1He also said to the disciples: “There was a richa man who received an accusation that his managerb was squanderingc his possessions.
2So he called the manager in and asked, ‘What is this I hear about you? Givean account of your management,d because you can no longer be my manager.’
3“Then the manager said to himself, ‘What should I do, since my master is taking the management awayfrom me? I’m not strong enough to dig; I’m ashamed to beg.
4I know what I’ll do so that when I’m removedfrom management, people will welcome me into their homes.’
5“So he summoned each one of his master’s debtors. ‘How much do you owe my master? ’ he asked the firstone.
6“ ‘A hundred measures of olive oil,’ he said. “ ‘Take your invoice,’ he told him, ‘sit down quickly, and write 50 .’
7“Next he asked another, ‘How much do you owe? ’ “ ‘A hundred measures of wheat,’ he said. “ ‘Take your invoice,’ he told him, ‘and write 80 .’
8“The master praised the unrighteous managere because he had acted astutely. For the sons of this agefare more astute than the sons of lightg in dealing with their own people.

even if the parable finishes by reassuring us that actual theft such as might be interpreted in the parable is wrong

 

[Taken]

it's what's in your heart that matters, and you seem to have a very nice heart imo

Absolutely the "heart".
And absolutely what is part of a naturally born man.
And absolutely from the thoughts of the heart that confesses Belief in the Word of God.
And absolutely what "is circumcised", ONCE a man is Forgiven and Saved, giving the man a NEW HEART.

That NEW HEART, can not CHANGE, and cannot revert to its OLD Natural Heart, that was once Against God.

there do seem to be indications that man can do just that, but if you believe some certain thing opposed to that i guess it wouldn't do much good to discuss the passages anyway.

There are many passages, of a man believing, and then not believing. Following, then not following.

Any man can do that once, or for years.
Those are actions of the individual man.

However ONCE they are Forgiven and Saved and Born Again......They have CHOSEN and made their ELECTION of God....and He does ALL the Changing....that BY HIS POWER, the man Can Never Again Reject God.

Men are Weak. They do NOT have the "power" to make an Oath, a Vow, a Commitment.....and STICK WITH IT.

Look about...
Men make promises...and break them.
Men give their word....and reneg.
Men make Vows...and break them.
Men sware Oaths....and break them.
Men sign Contracts...and break them.
Men make Laws....and break them.
Every day, all day.

We can not even KEEP a Promise to God.
Adam had ONE rule...he couldn't KEEP it.
Hebrews had 600+ Laws..they couldn't KEEP.
Jews have umpteen Laws...they can't KEEP.

Jesus arrives ~ Preaches BELIEVE, BELIEVE, BELIEVE, BELIEVE, BELIEVE...and Be Saved.

If, you Believe...in your heart
If, you Believe...in your heart
If, you Believe...in your heart

By His Power, you ARE Saved.
By His Power, you ARE KEPT Forever.

See the BIG CHANGE?
ARE SAVED?
ARE KEPT?

Are SAVED, is BY HIS WORD.
Are KEPT, is BY HIS POWER.

The Big CHANGE, has nothing to do with a mans WORD, or a mans POWER.

It has EVERYTHING to do with ...
A man TRUSTING, the Lords Word is TRUE.
A man TRUSTING, the Lords Power is Supreme.

And when a man DOES NOT TRUST the Lords Word IS TRUE, or His Power Supreme....
They will argue, indifference.

that's mainly why i was razzing you, k, the definitive statements being made,

No problem with me. Yes I would say "razzing", which to me is simply throwing out other options for the sake of discussion.
Unlike some, who are immature, and try to start a mud throwing match, as if, that justifies their position.

when you cannot possibly know.

I have the possibility of my own choices.
I Chose to Trust the Word of God is TRUE.
I Chose to Trust the Power of God is SUPREME.

Thus, I Trust to Believe Forever, means without ending.

well, plus you gotta keep the law;

Back to Adam, ONE rule.
Back to Hebrews, 600+ laws.
Back to and forward to Jews, umpteen laws.
Forward to Jesus, TWO laws.

First of all ~ one has to know IF Jesus' Two Laws Applies to them.
I am IN Christ, and He IN me. Thus I made myself Subjected to His TWO Laws, when I Subjected myself to Him.

So, HOW can I KEEP those TWO LAWS, when for hundreds and thousands of years, and today, we know men can not KEEP faithful, to vows, oaths, promises, contracts, etc?

The point being....I cannot of or by myself KEEP those TWO Laws....HOWEVER...with the Lords Spirit indwelling within me....
I can NOT break those TWO Laws, Because of His Power to KEEP me.

I GAVE HIM that Authority OVER ME, WHEN I elected and subjected myself TO Him.

Continued, addressing your last statement.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

without knowledge I might just believe anyone who comes along and says what they have to say: Be it wrong or right...

yes, but isn't this basically a description of how we all learn? at least until we form an unassailable belief? the first to tell his side in a matter seems correct, until another comes and cross examines him

 

[bbyrd009]

This is too funny.

Some believe the Lake of Fire is ONLY for satan and his angels.
The ONLY place in the bible that actually speaks of hell, as we understand it, in in 2 Peter 2:4. The actual word is Tartarus.

imo a big screaming clue that ppl should get from that is that even Tartarus is a borrowed Greek god, what are all these mythical Greek gods doin in your theology ppl lol

 

[Taken]

well, plus you gotta keep the law; i know pastors make a hash of which law, etc, but really it isn't a puzzle i guess

THE LAW.

"You gotta keep the law"?

First of all there are THOUSANDS of Laws.

So it would be handy for one to KNOW exactly where a LIST, a BOOK, a REFERENCE, to ALL of these LAWS ARE....

Certainly, one can not be HELD to obeying a LAW, that is not FIRST KNOWN where one can READ and KNOW what they "ARE" subject to KEEPING...

Even National Covernments, State Governments, County, Parish, City, Homeowners Associations, Universities, School governments, Have Laws, Bylaws, Rules, Regulations..,,that are all Written, Recorded, Preserved, Stored, for Public Viewing, that ANYONE can go and Read "any" Law, that they may or may not be subject to.

Where might one find such a LIST, of these Laws you speak of that one has "gotta keep"?

And do such laws, Apply to Every living person?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

here's an interesting thing i just learned about that, this past week; you may as well believe that they believe what they are saying, right, bc you prolly aren't gonna change their minds in one convo anyway; and why make enemies when you can make friends? We are told many times that God judges hearts, and to not even debate (at least several) beliefs, concerning holidays etc, and to not judge another's servant, etc, right?

So i wonder now if that is what the Parable of the Good Manager is really saying, being as how oil and wheat are symbolic:
snipped

I never understood that parable too much.
I should study it someday.
I have two things to say:
1. My brother said it's a sin to even be on these forums. I had asked him to join and he said No. And he's really intelligent too. I'm sorry he won't. We discuss biblical matters a lot.

2. I know I won't change anyone's mind. I'm writing for those reading along. They deserve to know the truth. Never losing salvation no matter what is not the truth. So I like to repeat it.

I'm always amused at those who come on these boards wishing to teach us all when they know nothing about us!

 

[GodsGrace]

imo a big screaming clue that ppl should get from that is that even Tartarus is a borrowed Greek god, what are all these mythical Greek gods doin in your theology ppl lol

You're right.
From wikipedia...:
In Greek mythology, Tartarus is the deep abyss that is used as a dungeon of torment and suffering for the wicked and as the prison for the Titans. Tartarus is the place where, according to Plato's Gorgias (c. 400 BC), souls are judged after death and where the wicked received divine punishment. Like other primal entities ...

The Jews spoke Greek. They know about the myths and incorporated the ideas. I do wish Jesus had been more specific. The idea of fire, for me, is not acceptable.

 

[bbyrd009]

Another question:
Do we go to heaven right away or at the resurrection?

to answer that, i guess we would have to come to agreement on which "death" matters to God; the spiritual one, meant to be accomplished "daily," or the other one that everyone suffers; bc this will alter the understanding of "resurrection" too i guess right. "Eternal" too.

I think right away, but I have to agree with you, nothing was made absolutely clear about this. I do think that if we have a spirit that spirit cannot die -- so we'd have to be someplace, right?

well, i guess the spirit goes back to God, but the soul--which we usually conflate with the ego, right--who knows? The best test i know for a teacher is whether they are saying or implying that they know, when Scripture assures us that no one knows. "We do not know yet..."

but to reply another way, imo when you seek to please God right now, wherever you are at, you likely stop worrying about getting the part of you that was supposed to be dying a little more every day into some party with Jesus after death anyway; our egos cannot come, iow, whenever or wherever. So imo i would be deciding whether or not soul includes ego