Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[GodsGrace]

wanna go out for pizza?

Yes!
The pizza here is terrible!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I buy my pizza in chinatown

 

[APAK]

wanna go out for pizza?

In your town or mine...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

In your town or mine...

you have chinatown pizza too?

 

[Taken]

there is more scripture of course....

APAK

Very good post. And yes ... we can add Scripture upon scripture upon scripture...

The KEY is....HOW is the reader reading scripture after scripture?

AS an OLD MAN....or A NEW MAN..!!

We have seen and observed examples of men, ..the thief, the Churches, the crowds gathering for a day or two, listening, hearing, from one small instance of the thief, to people hearing an Apostile speak for a few hours...

INDEED....the listeners were of Little faith...
Some immediately believed, some followed, some went.. eh, and walked away, some started following then stopped because of continuous extreme persecution against them, their families, their property....

And the ones who continued...we seem them doing things....and another saying "hey"...part of BEING A NEW MAN...is being glorifying to God....What you're doing does not glorify God....let me tell you, teach you, what I am talking about..

Do they say...oops, I sinned....oops, my bad!
Basically yes.

Why would they say such a thing, after conversion?

Same reason G-pa calls a refrigeration an Ice Box.... HABIT from what they had known....while still learning!

Most "born again Christians"... have owned a Bible, heard REPEATED teaching About the Lord....

So WHY pretend you are like a man who has heard 3 maybe 6 hours of teaching?

Most "born again Christians"...have HISTORY to look back on, as examples, and knowledge.

The men IN the Scripture...were the one MAKING THE HISTORY...that born again Christians look back on.

THEY stumbled alot. THEY also had their old HABITS of LANGUAGE, and the OLD LAWS of Moses and the Jews and the Curse LAWS, that were familiar to them.

WHEN did a born again Christian, today, HAVE those OLD Laws? They Didn't. So why adopt them?

A NON-Jew born again Christian...WAS born in sin, and Committed SIN, BY having never believed IN thee Lord God Almighty.
Their flesh body was born corrupt,
...separated from God.
Their very good soul, was corrupted being in their corrupt flesh body,
...separated from God.
Their natural spirit (ie their truth), IN their natural heart, was Expressly Carnal,
...separated from God.

THAT IS THE GENTILE OLD MAN.

THAT IS precisely ALL the things that Jesus thee Christ Changes OF AN OLD GENTILE MAN.

Forgives the man for his SIN of DISBELIEF.
Forgives the man for Corruptions his SOUL.

KILLS that flesh BODY of SIN, via crucifixion
Gives the man a NEW heart, via circumcision
RESTORED his soul, via his Power.
QUICKENS his spirit,via Gods Seed.
COVERS his sin, via Gods Light.
Dark sin, Covered with Light is seen no more.
WHAT is NOT SEEN, is forgotten.

WHAT IS New, Made, Restored, Quickened, LIVES FOREVER, BY and through the Keeping of the indwelling POWER of the Lord...

WHOM a man MEETS and KNOWS and HEARS and WALK with, and IS IN...
is his
Lord God Almighty.

Those who have not made that journey, or are like the NT Jews, accepting Christ, but not having yet learned what it means....

SHOULD be spending their time learning what it does mean, instead of attempting to debate, challenge, argue and teach....what they are not equipped to accomplish.

A man walking around in an ADULT body, or having attended Church for 30 years....does not make him qualified ... if he himself is still at an undeveloped relationship with the Lord.

And I'm sure some will be offended about the "undeveloped" remark.

No issue with me...THEY have to examine HOW THEY pray to God, and can go and study and learn HOW a NEW MAN learns how to take full advantage of a RELATIONSHIP with His God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

So God gives according to our effort?
That's works of the law.

So, what?
God gives a man faith according to nothing?

BE a Hebrew, BE a Jew...and it IS according to a man adhering to the LAW.

BE a Gentile, and its IS according to hearing, and believing.

Let's concentrate on one thing at a time.
In fact, let's start some threads.

You're all over the place....

Scripture "IS" ALL OVER the place.
It has application to every single man EVER born.

Which is the point. Individuals have to know, WHICH Scripture applies to THEM specific.
AND WHY.

Which is the problem...with many Christians..they try to APPLY every Scripture to themselves.........AND everyone else!!

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

In your town or mine...

I love a good pizza...
And I wanna have pizza with you guys...
But it's gotta be the "make do" way...
Can't come to your town...
So, what the phone number?
We can each order, have it delivered, and chat while we each eat Pizza!!

LOL

I have a daughter that was living 1,300 miles away. When we would visit each other we would eat popcorn and play Yahtzee.

When apart we would each make popcorn, get our own Yahtzee game, and play over the phone...lol

Just making do!!

God Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

Very good post. And yes ... we can add Scripture upon scripture upon scripture...

The KEY is....HOW is the reader reading scripture after scripture?

AS an OLD MAN....or A NEW MAN..!!

We have seen and observed examples of men, ..the thief, the Churches, the crowds gathering for a day or two, listening, hearing, from one small instance of the thief, to people hearing an Apostile speak for a few hours...

INDEED....the listeners were of Little faith...
Some immediately believed, some followed, some went.. eh, and walked away, some started following then stopped because of continuous extreme persecution against them, their families, their property....

And the ones who continued...we seem them doing things....and another saying "hey"...part of BEING A NEW MAN...is being glorifying to God....What you're doing does not glorify God....let me tell you, teach you, what I am talking about..

Do they say...oops, I sinned....oops, my bad!
Basically yes.

Why would they say such a thing, after conversion?

Same reason G-pa calls a refrigeration an Ice Box.... HABIT from what they had known....while still learning!

Most "born again Christians"... have owned a Bible, heard REPEATED teaching About the Lord....

So WHY pretend you are like a man who has heard 3 maybe 6 hours of teaching?

Most "born again Christians"...have HISTORY to look back on, as examples, and knowledge.

The men IN the Scripture...were the one MAKING THE HISTORY...that born again Christians look back on.

THEY stumbled alot. THEY also had their old HABITS of LANGUAGE, and the OLD LAWS of Moses and the Jews and the Curse LAWS, that were familiar to them.

WHEN did a born again Christian, today, HAVE those OLD Laws? They Didn't. So why adopt them?

A NON-Jew born again Christian...WAS born in sin, and Committed SIN, BY having never believed IN thee Lord God Almighty.
Their flesh body was born corrupt,
...separated from God.
Their very good soul, was corrupted being in their corrupt flesh body,
...separated from God.
Their natural spirit (ie their truth), IN their natural heart, was Expressly Carnal,
...separated from God.

THAT IS THE GENTILE OLD MAN.

THAT IS precisely ALL the things that Jesus thee Christ Changes OF AN OLD GENTILE MAN.

Forgives the man for his SIN of DISBELIEF.
Forgives the man for Corruptions his SOUL.

KILLS that flesh BODY of SIN, via crucifixion
Gives the man a NEW heart, via circumcision
RESTORED his soul, via his Power.
QUICKENS his spirit,via Gods Seed.
COVERS his sin, via Gods Light.
Dark sin, Covered with Light is seen no more.
WHAT is NOT SEEN, is forgotten.

WHAT IS New, Made, Restored, Quickened, LIVES FOREVER, BY and through the Keeping of the indwelling POWER of the Lord...

WHOM a man MEETS and KNOWS and HEARS and WALK with, and IS IN...
is his
Lord God Almighty.

Those who have not made that journey, or are like the NT Jews, accepting Christ, but not having yet learned what it means....

SHOULD be spending their time learning what it does mean, instead of attempting to debate, challenge, argue and teach....what they are not equipped to accomplish.

A man walking around in an ADULT body, or having attended Church for 30 years....does not make him qualified ... if he himself is still at an undeveloped relationship with the Lord.

And I'm sure some will be offended about the "undeveloped" remark.

No issue with me...THEY have to examine HOW THEY pray to God, and can go and study and learn HOW a NEW MAN learns how to take full advantage of a RELATIONSHIP with His God.

God Bless,
Taken

This very sobering subject does always bring to mind my personal life and my conversion and my testimony. And those that go around with many years in a 'church' and say they are saved or they say they are a Christian and I 'just know' they are not....I know I'm not meant to judge as to boast, and I DO NOT boast in what I have today in Christ, as I believe you have as well. I am so humbled and I'm also so glad I am counted as a child of God. When you bring this subject up here, it NEARLY ALWAYS affects and STIRS UP my heart, and I love the Lord so much when this happens..it just bubbles up inside me..I cannot help it.

You are a believer even though I am not sitting with you. You are a breath of fresh air here on this site.

Since I began as a new man, my attraction to scripture became quite noticeable. My taste for sin was like picking a cigarette and spewing it out and gagging....there were CHANGES in life....I have said previously I flat-lined over some years in faith....chastised and regrouped and gained more faith.....A true believer being converted after the age of accountability definitely has a history..from the OLD MAN to the NEW man...to walking in the spirit to the finish line.

God KNOWS who shall come to him. I just KNOW it.

Bless you as well brother.

APAK

 

[APAK]

you have chinatown pizza too?

In Orlando, I believe there is a type of homegrown Chinatown Pizza as in a buffet...with all the other usual oriental foods...;)

 

[Taken]

Haha! Agree.
There are far too many different conversations going on in all the threads right now!!!

Agree it can get confusing...
Because ALL are not at the SAME place on the PATH, thus all do not understand the SAME things, the SAME way.

It is crystal clear to me, but then it was not always that way.
I know some people are content with occasionally hearing the Word, or an hour a week, or join Bible study groups for a few weeks at a time....everyone is different...
And everyone advance down the PATH at different rates...

I know my own efforts, of reading, studying, learning and developing a relationship with the Lord.......and I would say, my opportunity was probably not like most. But that was my opportunity, and my choice to take advantage of the opportunity...

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

What I believe:- ( and I do believe in OSAS My first 20 years as a believer I believed it hung on works...the last 35 yrs I have believed OSAS)

"He saved us, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy...that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3:5-7) And again, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become the children of God-who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, but of God." (Jn.1:12-13) And again, "For by grace are you saved through faith, and THAT not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Eph.2:8-9) And again, "So then, it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace." (Rom.9:16; 11:5-6)

For the longest time I struggled with the verses that we all know..trying to reconcile both sides of the argument..but then, at last I made a big leap of "faith" (actually, desperation) and just CHOSE to believe that once a person has been born again he or she is secure for ALL ETERNITY--period!

I had found myself unable to rely on a so-called "Heavenly Father" who was a double-talker that hated almost everyone and loved almost no one.
Nor did I desire to relate to a heavenly father that "loved" me and had chosen to hate most other people...including at least some of my (now deceased) family and friends!! I had to settle thing with God...we cannot trust and love someone who we see as untrustworthy.

Paul knew he could be disqualified from his high calling. (1 Cor.9:26-27)
But missing the high calling in Christ, is not the same as missing salvation.
Salvation is solid, sure...our high calling is what we press toward every day of our Christian life to make solid.
I am by no means perfected, obviously. But I have experienced healing of my soul, and a great rust in God that is beyond anything I ever imagined would happen. What a wonderful word PEACE is.. because I now know My Heavenly Father is a Restorer at hearts.
Joy unspeakable and full of glory...

I am not trying to persuade you....just saying where 'I am' on this, re the OP thread on OSAS.

Bless you...Helen

Thanks Helen - that's all I wanted.
In over 2300 posts - NOBODY has put it as kindly and succinctly as you have with your usual charity and grace.

That being said - NONE of the verses you presented say anything about losing our secure place with God. I have repeatedly posted almost a dozen verses that speak to this reality and they have either been ignored or poorly exegeted.

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hey Breadman, I didn't think you'd answer right away.
You have to go to your guru for answers, right?

I've been at the hospital for the last couple of days.
My niece died and I haven't had time to catch up here.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So you are OSAS, is that correct?

OSAS is a false Protestant doctrine.
I'm a Catholic who rejects this man-made hoax.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Gal 2:16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith ind Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

Understand that when Paul mentions "Works of the LAW" - he is speaking of the Mosaic Law.
Of course nobody is saved by works of the Mosaic Law.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I love a good pizza...
And I wanna have pizza with you guys...
But it's gotta be the "make do" way...
Can't come to your town...
So, what the phone number?
We can each order, have it delivered, and chat while we each eat Pizza!!

LOL

I have a daughter that was living 1,300 miles away. When we would visit each other we would eat popcorn and play Yahtzee.

When apart we would each make popcorn, get our own Yahtzee game, and play over the phone...lol

Just making do!!

God Bless,
Taken

don't be so lazy
start walking
I'm in central Florida

 

[Taken]

This very sobering subject does always bring to mind my personal life and my conversion and my testimony. And those that go around with many years in a 'church' and say they are saved or they say they are a Christian and I 'just know' they are not....I know I'm not meant to judge as to boast, and I DO NOT boast in what I have today in Christ, as I believe you have as well. I am so humbled and I'm also so glad I am counted as a child of God. When you bring this subject up here, it NEARLY ALWAYS affects and STIRS UP my heart, and I love the Lord so much when this happens..it just bubbles up inside me..I cannot help it.

You are a believer even though I am not sitting with you. You are a breath of fresh air here on this site.

Since I began as a new man, my attraction to scripture became quite noticeable. My taste for sin was like picking a cigarette and spewing it out and gagging....there were CHANGES in life....I have said previously I flat-lined over some years in faith....chastised and regrouped and gained more faith.....A true believer being converted after the age of accountability definitely has a history..from the OLD MAN to the NEW man...to walking in the spirit to the finish line.

God KNOWS who shall come to him. I just KNOW it.

Bless you as well brother.

APAK

It is a JOY to read your posts. I typically call it refreshing to converse with another that you KNOW, has come a long distance on the PATH.
No, I do not see it as boasting. No one is whoo hooing....they have reached the Finish line.

I didn't have the experience of a flat-line...but was like everyone who was walking about, "in belief"....but NOT walking about, knowing what to do with it.....or even knowing I was supposed to DO something with my belief, my faith....

And you comment about people being in the Church, I think many have faith, are born again, BUT think all they are supposed to do IS be a "teacher"....and thus, sort of SKIP the part of being Developed in a relationship with the Lord.

Ya, sure they pray, and say all the right words, and ask for healing, help for their friends and family, say a repetitive, thank you
Lord...then move on with their life.

There is SO much more, to a relationship with God than the scheduled and repetitive prayers.

And love it when you said, all Bubbled up....
I get that, I can relate to that....It is the JOY, JOY, JOY.....of the bigger picture of a relationship with the Lord!! Love it!!

It is hard to describe if one has never experienced that....It is so personal...and immeasurable. Way beyond, when is this Sermon going to be over, so I can repeat something to the Lord, and go eat and watch the football game!!

Our life gets in the way of Gods Life. The grass needs mowing, the kids are antsie, the endless shopping, TV junk, work, bills, going in debt trying to impress people you don't like..(ha ha)...and all the nonsense people tend to place a high values on....hardly leaves room for God...except for a scheduled few minutes and that quick repetitive pray...

When people can get pass all the JUNK they clutter their lives with....the relationship with the Lord BLOOMS...and IS awesome!!

God Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

don't be so lazy
start walking
I'm in central Florida

You are kidding me....right

 

[Helen]

Thank you.

That being said - NONE of the verses you presented say anything about losing our secure place with God. I have repeatedly posted almost a dozen verses that speak to this reality and they have either been ignored or poorly exegeted.

Oh , I know, I can do nothing but agree...but I found too many that said the opposite ...plus at some point I knew that I must reconcile what I knew and saw of the Character of God himself.
That is why I said what I quote again here below.

For the longest time I struggled with the verses that we all know..trying to reconcile both sides of the argument..but then, at last I made a big leap of "faith" (actually, desperation) and just CHOSE to believe that once a person has been born again he or she is secure for ALL ETERNITY--period!

On that...sink or swim, right or wrong...I just have to 'stick' and stand firm.
I know that "God is love"...and God win's.

Bless you...H

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

In Orlando, I believe there is a type of homegrown Chinatown Pizza as in a buffet...with all the other usual oriental foods...;)

that's close enough
I'll be in Orlando Thursday for a meeting
I could probably meet you around 3 PM

come on taken, start walking, it's a little further now

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I've been at the hospital for the last couple of days.
My niece died and I haven't had time to catch up here.

Sorry sir, I pray for the best for all the surviving family.
Meanwhile, you want to come to Orlando Thursday for Chinese pizza?