On the pre-existence of Jesus

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Scott Downey

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We got 2 references to the preexistence of the Christ
One regarding Abraham, and one from Christ declaring a truth here saying "I AM"

54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is [o]your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

He is declaring He is equal to God, saying in essence, "I AM GOD"
 

APAK

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We got 2 references to the preexistence of the Christ
One regarding Abraham, and one from Christ declaring a truth here saying "I AM"

54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is [o]your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
No, they are not references to the literal pre-existence of Jesus Christ.
 

Scott Downey

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See the reality is the Word was God in the beginning.

And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us in grace and truth.

If someone does not bring this testimony they are in serious error.

Christ is God, and Christ existed from the beginning with God as equal to God.

And so many other verses testify to the same thing. You might as well be a Muslim person, they also recognize Christ but are not believing Christ is God.
 

Wrangler

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Well., I can use scripture and the Spirit of God to make it more than just an opinion. Can you?
Obviously a major divide from those who reject the trinity is the proper discernment of Scripture. Taking literal as figurative and visa versa.
 
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Scott Downey

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Anyhow, it is not about me or you or anyone, it is about what the scripture says about Christ.


5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it [a]robbery to be equal with God,
7 but [b]made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
 
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APAK

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Anyhow, it is not about me or you or anyone, it is about what the scripture says about Christ.


5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it [a]robbery to be equal with God,
7 but [b]made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
Great response to my query. Way to go...
 

Wrangler

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Look, can you provide a link or information to some of these 'many times'? If not then I would be quiet...
There are always mountains of evidence for the trinity … just around the bend. All of Scripture ‘points’ to it, don’t you know.
 
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Scott Downey

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They are the same eternal God

Rev 1

To Him who [b]loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us [c]kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, [d]the Beginning and the End,” says the [e]Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

9 I, John, [f]both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, [g]“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches [h]which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying [i]to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of [j]Hades and of Death. 19 [k]Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this. 20 The [l]mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the [m]angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands [n]which you saw are the seven churches.

Rev 22

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the [f]Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who [g]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 [h]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
 

APAK

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They are the same eternal God

Rev 1

To Him who [b]loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us [c]kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, [d]the Beginning and the End,” says the [e]Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

9 I, John, [f]both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, [g]“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches [h]which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying [i]to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of [j]Hades and of Death. 19 [k]Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this. 20 The [l]mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the [m]angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands [n]which you saw are the seven churches.

Rev 22

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the [f]Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who [g]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 [h]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
Scott: why is Jesus Christ the first and the last in Rev 1:17-18? And what exactly does the expression 1st and the last mean?
 

Scott Downey

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People who dont think Christ is God keep using verses that point to Him being a man while ignoring all the verses that point to Him being God.

Well, He is both God and Man, Our Savior

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
 

APAK

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@Scott Downey let me just define briefly what 'first and the last' or the alpha and omega' means in a non- emotional state and objective terms.

When I came to the US I was the first generation of my father's side, and therefore the last generation, I was the first and the last in this feat or event, and it's impossible for any other human being to copy this or be me.

Now apply this the Son of God.....it should fall out quite easily.....In Rev, 1:17-18...Jesus was saying (obvious implication) he was the 1st to die and be resurrected from death and gain immortality of the new creation. So do not be afraid anymore....He therefore must be the only one, he is unique and there's no one that can copy this feat. He therefore is the first and the last or the alpha and omega of this event, or reality.
 
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Scott Downey

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Colossians 1 gives a good description of the most obvious pre-existance of Christ as the Creator of all things, so then He is before all things, and in Him all things exist. And as Creator, then Christ is God who also maintains all things.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.


18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.