"not of works, lest anyone should boast."

[amadeus]

That is true for me. I don't let a church tell me what's right or wrong. But I do learn a lot from church doctrines so I don't simply throw them aside. Fellowship is important also so there is no need to go it alone. But churches demand allegiance and oversee with dominion. And I don't follow that principle. Jesus is my God and head of my church.

While I stopped regularly attendance at any physical place a couple of years ago outside of the Internet, even when I was there, I was also striving always to stay with Jesus as my Head. By the Holy Spirit this is possible for each of us, with a church or without [meaning a physical church or church group/organization].

 

[Raccoon1010]

While I stopped regularly attendance at any physical place a couple of years ago outside of the Internet, even when I was there, I was also striving always to stay with Jesus as my Head. By the Holy Spirit this is possible for each of us, with a church or without [meaning a physical church or church group/organization].

I attended Mormon church for 10 years and the Holy Ghost always corrected them for me so I understand what you mean.

 

[amadeus]

Romans 3:23 ""all"" sin and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
"Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins" (Ecclesiastes 7:20)

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Rom 3:23

Your first verse speaks of every man who has been born carnal as does the Ecc. verse. The OT verse, of course, written before Jesus brought Life speaks of all those dead in sins..., which was everyone after Adam and Eve and before Jesus paid the price of opening up the closed Way to Life.

All of us have been sinners, but to presume that all of us now must sin, is to include everyone else in what you may know about yourself. Who knows each man's heart? A man may know his own heart, though that is not always, true, is it? What other man's heart do you, or any of us, know besides our own?

Jesus made it possible for a man to overcome sin. I do not believe the scripture shows that this cannot be done before the dirt is shoveled over the man's face.

Jesus overcame sin and the very temptations in himself, which lead men to sin, and he opened up the Way for us to become as he is. Who among us can now say that the Way is closed to us until after our natural death? Who among is unable by the power of God through the Holy Spirit to be an overcomer now?

 

[amadeus]

I attended Mormon church for 10 years and the Holy Ghost always corrected them for me so I understand what you mean.

Give God the glory my friend! If our heart is submitted always to Him, He will always direct us correctly. God confirms that in what has been written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit. Can we see it and understand it? By the Spirit of God, we can. Quench not the Spirit!

 

[Marymog]

you trap yourself in your own web Mm.

Ok,,,,enlighten me QT

I know what you said makes sense to you but it makes no sense to me.........soooooo explain yourself!!

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

I like that you are open minded. That is the only way the Holy Spirit can get through to us.

Oh goodness Lady,

Lol....You have got to be kidding me here??????????????????????

Have you read the entire convo between devin and I??????????

I asked him: Who decides what a “mis-interpretation of scripture” is?

He said: "I DO"

Soooooooo how is a person that believes that THEY decide what a misinterpretation of Scripture is "open minded"?????????

Wouldn't that person be close minded since they don't accept other persons interpretations???? They are being completely the OPPOSITE of open minded if THEY decide what a misinterpretation is.

Keeping it real....Mary

 

[Marymog]

Why not God? If your church or his church or any church agree with God, then they are right. If any of them do not, then they are not.

However, even if the church we support or attend is right, that does not make me or you right, does it?

If the church we support or is attend is wrong in any point before God, what about us? Are we automatically wrong because we are there?

Huh......Soooooo if God decides that the men of the Catholic Church has misinterpreted Scripture and the men of Amadeus's church has not misinterpreted Scripture.......who does God tell? Does he tell the baptist to walk across the street to the Catholic church and inform them they are wrong and if they don't change their ways the will go to hell? Help me out with your theory Amadeus.........

If the church we support or attend is right and we follow the teachings of that church then YES that does make us right........

If the church we support or attend is wrong and we follow the teachings of that church then YES that makes us wrong.......

So the answer is YES: If the church we support or attend is wrong in any point before God we are automatically wrong because we are supporting what is wrong (presuming we KNOW it's wrong). It's not a hard concept to follow.

I know, I know you have a theory that we really don't know what is right or wrong.......at least that is what I recall from our previous conversations.

 

[Marymog]

That is true for me. I don't let a church tell me what's right or wrong. But I do learn a lot from church doctrines so I don't simply throw them aside. Fellowship is important also so there is no need to go it alone. But churches demand allegiance and oversee with dominion. And I don't follow that principle. Jesus is my God and head of my church.

Thank you Devin. I find how you practice your faith fascinating:

No one can TELL you what is right or wrong....except yourself.

YOU decide what is "right or wrong" but you could change your mind about being right if you read a church doctrine that changes your mind.

OR you could talk to someone in "fellowship" and they may change your mind about being right.

Jesus is the head of your church but he is not the head of those churches whose doctrines you "learn a lot" from.

Jesus guided those men of those churches to those doctrines but if you disagree with those doctrines then Jesus didn't guide them to the truth....He only guided you to the truth because you don't let any church tell you what is right or wrong.

Is that a fair summary????

mary

 

[Raccoon1010]

Thank you Devin. I find how you practice your faith fascinating:

No one can TELL you what is right or wrong....except yourself.

YOU decide what is "right or wrong" but you could change your mind about being right if you read a church doctrine that changes your mind.

OR you could talk to someone in "fellowship" and they may change your mind about being right.

Jesus is the head of your church but he is not the head of those churches whose doctrines you "learn a lot" from.

Jesus guided those men of those churches to those doctrines but if you disagree with those doctrines then Jesus didn't guide them to the truth....He only guided you to the truth because you don't let any church tell you what is right or wrong.

Is that a fair summary????

mary

Nope. I let God with his Holy Ghost guide my doctrine. If I find that my understanding doesn't harmonize with the bible then I change it. I'm only somewhat versed in the bible and learned most of my doctrine from churches. What I find is that my doctrine changes from those churches as I read the bible and become aware of false doctrines taught by those churches.

 

[Marymog]

Nope. I let God with his Holy Ghost guide my doctrine. If I find that my understanding doesn't harmonize with the bible then I change it. I'm only somewhat versed in the bible and learned most of my doctrine from churches. What I find is that my doctrine changes from those churches as I read the bible and become aware of false doctrines taught by those churches.

Thanks Devin,

I find it fascinating that the men of "those churches' read the same bible that you read but "God with his Holy Ghost" guides them into false doctrines BUT He guides you to true doctrines....simply fascinating. I wonder if they know they are not truly being guided by Him? That they have decieved themselves into THINKING they have been guided by Him.

 

[Davy]

Truly perilous times we're living in (2 Timothy 3; 1 Timothy 4; 2 Timothy 4:3).

 

[Raccoon1010]

Thanks Devin,

I find it fascinating that the men of "those churches' read the same bible that you read but "God with his Holy Ghost" guides them into false doctrines BUT He guides you to true doctrines....simply fascinating. I wonder if they know they are not truly being guided by Him? That they have decieved themselves into THINKING they have been guided by Him.

I think it's important to not assume what another person experiences in their journey into the Gospel of Christ. That includes church leaders. God gave us a brain and a heart and the Holy Spirit to guide us in our journey. To assume any church has it right is to trust in the leadership that generated that church and it's doctrine. And we all know how many churches and doctrines are out there now. So they can't all be right can they. And to just trust what someone is telling you is naive. People all have different brain patterns and brains are like a fingerprint. So not everyone has a functioning brain that works correctly. That goes for everyone.

I've then learned some tools for navigating false doctrine. I wait for evidence before simply believing something is true. The bible has a lot of evidence in it that we can believe without questioning it. And many interpret. Do they use the Holy Spirit to interpret it? Did they say that or do we just assume they did? Again I wouldn't assume things as you will get things wrong.

So don't just believe people when they say something, wait for evidence of that thing. There are so many people even on this forum that post videos from preachers that display false doctrine and ideas, and they simply believe them. I'm not one of them.

I study science and require some form of proof. And my proof is usually the Holy Spirit. So how do we know we're receiving information from the Holy Spirit? Paul pointed that out with the Fruits of the Holy Spirit. We will also receive "Peace, Love and Joy, etc" When we hear the Holy Spirit: Galatians 5:22-23.

 

[amadeus]

Huh......Soooooo if God decides that the men of the Catholic Church has misinterpreted Scripture and the men of Amadeus's church has not misinterpreted Scripture.......who does God tell?

"And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Mark 4:9

Who has such "ears to hear" about which Jesus spoke several times in the gospels?

Where is Amadeus' church?
Where is Marymog's church?
Where is God's Church?
Who is the Head of the Church, that is, God's Church?
Where are the members of the Body of Christ?
What is the Body of Christ?

Does he tell the baptist to walk across the street to the Catholic church and inform them they are wrong and if they don't change their ways the will go to hell? Help me out with your theory Amadeus.........

I would not go and tell anyone what they need to do to line up with God unless I really believe I was led by God to do so. I cannot speak for anyone else, be they Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mormon, Presbyterian, or other.

If the church we support or attend is right and we follow the teachings of that church then YES that does make us right........

I have seen nor do I know of any no church in possession of all the right teachings according to God, but then I do not claim to know what all the right teachings of God are. What I do see and believe is that the way to be always right is to follow always the lead of the Holy Spirit. Why would this be wrong?

If the church we support or attend is wrong and we follow the teachings of that church then YES that makes us wrong.......

Does not our knowledge that there is wrong and that we know what and what is not wrong make a difference to God? Is it not likely that there are people in every church who are unaware of the error or correctness of every teaching according to their church? The reason for their ignorance does matter to God!

So the answer is YES: If the church we support or attend is wrong in any point before God we are automatically wrong because we are supporting what is wrong (presuming we KNOW it's wrong). It's not a hard concept to follow.

Yes, our ignorance would make a difference to God! Why we are ignorant would also matter to Him!

I know, I know you have a theory that we really don't know what is right or wrong.......at least that is what I recall from our previous conversations.

What is right is what God says is right! The question is: Are we His sheep hearing His voice always rather than ever listening to and following the voice of strangers?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Oh goodness Lady,

Lol....You have got to be kidding me here??????????????????????

Have you read the entire convo between devin and I??????????

I asked him: Who decides what a “mis-interpretation of scripture” is?

He said: "I DO"

Soooooooo how is a person that believes that THEY decide what a misinterpretation of Scripture is "open minded"?????????

Wouldn't that person be close minded since they don't accept other persons interpretations???? They are being completely the OPPOSITE of open minded if THEY decide what a misinterpretation is.

Keeping it real....Mary

I am filled with the Spirit and have the gift of being able to hear and understand God's voice. I've asked Him to teach me the meaning of His words in Scripture as there can be only one true meaning, and I want to know what that one meaning is. So just as he is confident his interpretation is correct, I am confident in what God has taught me to be correct.

 

[marks]

Jesus guided those men of those churches to those doctrines but if you disagree with those doctrines then Jesus didn't guide them to the truth....He only guided you to the truth because you don't let any church tell you what is right or wrong.

Is that a fair summary????

mary

We all imperfectly follow as best we can, and we are all accountable to God personally, according as we believe, according as we understand His Word, and as we are honest about it.

Once I see derision creep into the debates I start to wonder how much from conscience this is.

I'm not responsible to you, or to your church leader, and to mine in those ways the Bible specifically says, but I am fully responsible to God, and at the end of the day, I look first to the book He gave to me, and compare all other voices to that, and to what I believe God is telling me.

Obviously many are not correct in what they teach. Some will say their denomination is the one true, or the primary source of understanding, but I'll continue to look first to the Bible, and compare everyone else that.

Much love!

 

[Marymog]

We all imperfectly follow as best we can, and we are all accountable to God personally, according as we believe, according as we understand His Word, and as we are honest about it.

Once I see derision creep into the debates I start to wonder how much from conscience this is.

I'm not responsible to you, or to your church leader, and to mine in those ways the Bible specifically says, but I am fully responsible to God, and at the end of the day, I look first to the book He gave to me, and compare all other voices to that, and to what I believe God is telling me.

Obviously many are not correct in what they teach. Some will say their denomination is the one true, or the primary source of understanding, but I'll continue to look first to the Bible, and compare everyone else that.

Much love!

Hey Marks,

I generally like your thoughtful, well thought out post's but this one is a little bit off key.

In regard to you NOT being responsible your church leaders, who are men worthy of double honor and who have been appointed by the guidance of the Holy Spirit over you, Scripture disagrees with you: Hebrews 13:7 and 17, 1 Peter 5:1-5, Titus 1:5, Acts 14:23, 16:4, 20:28 1 Timothy 5:17-20, 1 Thessalonians 5:12.

Sooooo what happens when YOU "look first to the Bible, and compare everyone else that" and YOU come up with a different "truth" than the elders of any of the thousands of denominations in the world......Who has been given the truth? You or them? Which of you is fulfilling 2 Peter 3:16?

Respectfully, Mary

PS: I am sure I am responsible for some of the derision, but it is found in every thread and not only from this gal. It's just a byproduct of this forum.

 

[Marymog]

I am filled with the Spirit and have the gift of being able to hear and understand God's voice. I've asked Him to teach me the meaning of His words in Scripture as there can be only one true meaning, and I want to know what that one meaning is. So just as he is confident his interpretation is correct, I am confident in what God has taught me to be correct.

Congratulations Lady.......You sound like the men of The Reformation and John Smith and Charles Taze Russell and David Koresh and Jim Jones etc etc. Each of them started their own denomination, splitting off from the other because they disagreed with each other. They also thought they were "filled with the Spirit" and had "the gift of being able to hear and understand God's voice. They were as confident as you are.

 

[quietthinker]

Congratulations Lady.......You sound like the men of The Reformation and John Smith and Charles Taze Russell and David Koresh and Jim Jones etc etc. Each of them started their own denomination, splitting off from the other because they disagreed with each other. They also thought they were "filled with the Spirit" and had "the gift of being able to hear and understand God's voice. They were as confident as you are.

ahhhh, keeping the family under one roof only works for a short time

 

[quietthinker]

ahhhh, keeping the family under one roof only works for a short time

so how is your house/roof going Mm? ...the house/roof of Marymog?

 

[theefaith]

Paul to adult Christians

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall notinherit the kingdom of God? Be notdeceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shallnot inherit the kingdom of God.

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.