"Not my God. Not my Jesus."

[Aunty Jane]

Dear Jane,

I don't have an issue considering perspectives on scriptures given by those who study them - even if they don't believe Yeshua was the Son of God. Their opinions simply show how passages can be seen.

It is good to consider the perspective of others….but the Jews in particular have an anti-Christ agenda….
They have a vested interest in alternative renderings, concerning the messiah. Hezekiah just doesn’t fit…

Back to my other questions... When was Yeshua ever called the Everlasting Father? Yeshua did not claim to be a Prince of Peace since He came to divide.

Strongs gives the definition of the word “āḇ” (father) as…..

1. father of an individual
2. of God as father of his people
3. head or founder of a household, group, family, or clan
4. ancestor

A father can be “head or founder of a household, group, family, or clan”…..so as the one who offered his life for those who would be his brethren, he fits the definition of a “father”…..and Christ‘s sacrifice gave eternal life to all who accept him as their savior….in that way he is an eternal father.

If you read my other post, I mentioned why there is no peace when Christ begins his reign…..King David prophesied that he would begin his rulership “in the midst of his enemies”……when he said the words of Matt 10:36, he was speaking about the conflict of divided families. Those who followed Christ, especially from Jewish households, received a hostile response. It took courage to stand up to such family opposition.

The peace that Christ brings to redeemed mankind comes after the final showdown between his father and his adversary. God’s kingdom of a thousand years will bring lasting peace to the whole human race.

My nature is to examine the words and details. I can't just shirk off the words that make the passage false regarding Yeshua. I realize it is very popular to accuse the passage of being about Him, but something needs to be known about all the words given.

It is good to research things, but sources are also important. Why consult sources that you know are hostile to Jesus as Messiah? Wouldn’t you expect those sources to be biased?

This is simply a case - for me - that I need God's spirit to give me understanding. Until He does, I can't simply say that I agree. This is simply another "sticky note" on my bulletin board.

I pray the spirit leads you to a correct conclusion in this my friend. Sticky notes can be rewritten…

 

[Matthias]

“Not my God. Not my Jesus.” Still? No changed minds today.

 

[Wrangler]

Wouldn’t you expect those sources to be biased?

My axiom is that when it comes to politics, everyone is biased. The only question is what is the bias?

Fact is, there are almost always arguments FOR and AGAINST a proposition. An intelligent mind can entertain an idea that he does not share. Many refuse to acknowledge any validity to ideas they do not share. I believe this causes many problems.

 

[marks]

One could excuse @marks for simply meaning a complicated question but he actually included a link, implying he just learned of the fallacy and wanted to invoke it but did it inappropriately.

I've studied logical fallacies for years. Don't trust your assumptions. There are many logical fallacies that appear routinely on this forum, and several members employ them frequently. It can be kind of a game, Can you spot and name all the fallacies? Of course, when you go the various online lists, some use this name, some use that name, the important thing is being able to recognize an invalid argument.

A question which includes a presupposition, like, Have you stopped beating your wife? First, do you beat your wife? How do you explain that my doctrine is older than your doctrine. First, is your doctrine older?

I hope that helps!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Obviously it was an excuse to avoid answering it.

I'm not into all the games people like to play. So I don't play. You want an answer? Ask a straight question. But don't bother, I've lost interest.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The Watchtower has lied & misrepresented so many times when discussing this topic.

Exactly, lies and obfuscation. Great post!

Much love!

 

[Behold]

As a starting point, my thesis is that Allah is the same God worshipped by Jews and Christians,

A short History on "allah".

"allah" as you find with the word "Catholic", is generic, and it tries to be "all inclusive".

Nether of them are...

Here is Allah...

= Allah, was one of 360 Bedouin "godz"..(Muslim) He was their "moon god".

They chose Muhammed, out of the Bedouin Tribe, to be "their prophet", and they choose "allah" the "moon god" to be their 1 God.

I'll show you their "god" on their FLAG,... down below.


Now what is the Main proof that "allah" is not The Father of the Born again, or the Father of Jesus the Christ.

A.) ALLAH, requires that you give your sons for HIM.... and that is why they blow themselves up, tying to kill YOU.


AA.) GOD, our Father, .. Gave JESUS, His only Begotten Son, for YOU and ME, so that we could become Their Family.

Here is : "Allah"..
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[Wrangler]

I'm not into all the games people like to play. So I don't play. You want an answer? Ask a straight question. But don't bother, I've lost interest.

Much love!

Gaslighting. As you are playing games ... you deny it ... then play more games.

 

[Matthias]

“Not my God. Not my Jesus.” Still? No changed minds today.

And the band played on.

Witness is all that is happening. Not that that’s a bad thing.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

People do themself a huge disservice by not adhering to standards of truth, and instead just accepting whatever comes down the pike.

"Let's agree, it's all the same god!"

This is a strawman fallacy, marks.
Nobody is defending the thesis that we should "accept whatever comes down the pike".
I have already mentioned that it is obvious that we all have different views on God.
Not all those views are compatible. Still, God is the same.



God is One. There is only One Creator, One All-Wise, All-Powerful, All-Sustaining Being, who expects from us to love Him and to love our neighbors. Who is able to forgive our sins and change our ways.
There is only One.

So, if you believe in that God, and I believe in that God, it is impossible to state that we believe in different gods. To believe such absurdity, we would have to recognize we could serve more than one Being of the characteristics mentioned above.

We would also fall into more absurdities, like thinking that God is not listening to people who want to pray to Him and come with a humble heart.

 

[marks]

Still, God is the same. It is our views which are not compatible.

That's how this is not a strawman.

You have a presupposition . . . all gods are the same god, and it's just our ideas about god that are different.

God is One. There is only One Creator, One All-Wise, All-Powerful, All-Sustaining Being, who expects from us to love Him and to love our neighbors. Who is able to forgive our sins and change our ways.
There is only One.

And this is the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ, YHWH, and is not the gods of the Hindu, or the Muslim, or the Animist.

I say, hold to truth, from the True God, and not except whatever someone wants to tell you that is contrary to sound doctrine, in the Bible.

Yes, there is only one true God, but there are many people who call many things their god. Just by saying it doesn't make it true.

There are those who worship Satan as their god. Will you go so far as to say Satan is the same being we know as Jesus Christ?

Much love!

 

[marks]

God is One. There is only One Creator, One All-Wise, All-Powerful, All-Sustaining Being, who expects from us to love Him and to love our neighbors. Who is able to forgive our sins and change our ways.
There is only One.

Who requires our repentance from sin, requires that we worship Him alone, requires us to receive His Son Jesus, requires that we be reborn in Him, a spiritual rebirth that isn't just having a new POV. He accepts no substitutes and declares all other "gods" to be false.

There is One Name given under heaven by which men must be saved, and that Name is Jesus Christ. That's it, He is the only way to the Father. The only one!

Much love!

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

It would be great if ...

If you mean it, Wrangler... if you really mean it would be great, then don't fight against it.
Whatever you visualize as "great", deserves to be identified in reality, because reality is ultimately divine.
In God we all live, move and exist. Isn't that true? And "all" included both Paul and the Pagan people from Athens we has addressing.

...we all believed in the same God - but we don't.

We have different belief's about God. But we believe in the same God.

There is only One God who is Creator, Sustainer, Eternal, All-Wise, All-Good, All-Merciful, All-Powerful, to which we are held accountable. Do we agree with that?


Let's suppose that Jane believes that God requires us to keep the Sabbath on the Seventh Day, while Julie believes that God requires us to keep Sunday. Does that make the God of Jane and the God of Julie different gods?

In which sense, being right or wrong about the day of the week God asks to keep will stop God being Creator, Sustainer, Eternal, All-Wise, All-Good, All-Merciful, All-Powerful?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Who requires our repentance from sin, requires that we worship Him alone, requires us to receive His Son Jesus, requires that we be reborn in Him, a spiritual rebirth that isn't just having a new POV. He accepts no substitutes and declares all other "gods" to be false.

Everything you have mentioned is included in the definition of God, because God is All-Good, All-Merciful.
What I encourage you to reflect on, is that "to receive His Son Jesus" means something different than that your pastors have taught you.
To "receive His Son Jesus" is to accept His Message.
Any Sikh, Muslim, Jew or Baha'i who follow His steps is born again and has already accepted his message.

Your pastors, marks, want you to believe that you are safe by your creed, to get control of your loyalty and your pocket.
Creeds do not save anyone. They have never saved anyone.
The grace of God saves, in makes people to repent and be born again. Jesus came to teach us that.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

That's how this is not a strawman.

You have a presupposition . . . all gods are the same god, and it's just our ideas about god that are different.

The strawman fallacy is to argue that, by if we accept that Jews, Muslims, JW and Christians worship the same God, we are "accepting whatever comes down the pike". This is not true, and nobody has claimed that to be true. It is a strawman.
Jews will be Jews, Muslims will be Muslims, JW will be JW and Christians will be Christian, each one with their own doctrines.

Can you now see the strawman? If I am not being clear, my brother, please let me know.

And this is the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ, YHWH, and is not the gods of the Hindu, or the Muslim, or the Animist.

I hold that the God of the Muslim is your God.
My proposition is robust:
There is Only One God who is Eternal, Creator, Sustainer, All-Good, All-Wise, All-Powerful, All-Merciful, who is interested in us and to whom we will be held accountable. Only One who can forgive our sins and change our lives.

So, if two people pray to this God, repent before this God, render their will to this God, serve this Good, their God is the same.

 

[Wrangler]

We have different belief's about God. But we believe in the same God.

That reminds me of a comedian who played the news anchor in SNL. He said his god thinks he's hilarious, which is why he picked him as his god.

 

[marks]

means something different than that your pastors have taught you.

I don't think you understand the Scriptures. Don't try to fob this off on . . . what they taught you. That's not what this is. I'm giving you Bible. Accept it or reject it, you have that choice. I'm seeing you reject it over and over and that will be to your own hurt. Again, be warned! God will not be mocked!

Your pastors, marks, want you to believe that you are safe by your creed, to get control of your loyalty and your pocket.

What utter nonsense!

Life in Christ is by being baptized into His death and resurrection, and being recreated according to His image. Safe by my creed?

This is really hitting a low level of discussion.

But when it comes to someone stooping to disparagment the real discussion is likely over.

Much love!

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

There are those who worship Satan as their god. Will you go so far as to say Satan is the same being we know as Jesus Christ?

No. Of course not.
But I would like you to reflect and tell me WHY I'm answering "No".

 

[marks]

I hold that the God of the Muslim is your God.

And you are sadly mistaken.

I pray to the Heavenly Father that He will enlighten you to His truth, and that you can truly be free!

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

I'm giving you Bible. Accept it or reject it, you have that choice. I'm seeing you reject it over and over and that will be to your own hurt. Again, be warned! God will not be mocked!

Yea, I'm seeing that also.

Our friend likes to play god by playing word games; if we define words the way we want, then anything can mean anything. Another example is to claim there are no essential differences. You put out many essential differences. He retorts, although those are differences, they are not essential differences.