NEWSFLASH: Abraham was not a Jew. Neither was Isaac. Neither was Jacob.

[Eternally Grateful]

Acts 17:
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Yes.

If one does Not repent. They will not come to faith.

He who does repent, God gives eternal life. And the promise that they have passed from death to death, and passed from judgment

 

[Zao is life]

Where does this lost ten tribes come from.

All Israel was represented in Judah, When the city was rebuilt by Nehemiah, All Israel returned.

Neh 8: 73 So the priests, the Levites, the gatekeepers, the singers, some of the people, the Nethinim, and all Israel dwelt in their cities.

They were not called Jews then, they were called ALL ISREAL.. showing that representatives and families of all tribes were represented.

Who is God talking to in the following verses. Is it

A. The small handful of the ten tribes who escaped to Judah in 725 BC and were never scattered and became amalgamated with the Jews?, or

B. Those who were scattered?

Hosea 1
6 And she conceived again and bore a daughter. And God said to him, Call her name No-mercy, for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel. But I will utterly take them away.
8 And when she had weaned Lo-ruhamah, she conceived and bore a son.
9 And He said, Call his name Not-my-people. For you are not My people, and I will not be for you.
10 Yet the number of the sons of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered. And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living God.

@Eternally Grateful
Isaiah 7
8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within sixty-five years Ephraim shall be broken so that it shall not be a people.

Hint: God was not talking to the Jews in either of the above passages.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OK so you never meant salvation is not meant for the Jews or for the other 11 tribes descended from Abraham when you chose the words THAT NATION. Good.

Report my post all you like but you are the one not making clear what you are saying.

Your whole discussion in your last few posts has been about land.

My discussion in my OP is about whether or not Israel (twelve tribes) equates with "the Jews", and whether or not naturally born descendants of Abraham have been broken off through unbelief from Israel, and from the remnant of Jews who believe who are not broken off from Israel.

I was not interested in the promise of the land, but you kept pushing me on it saying I never quoted that part of the promise to Abraham.

I never quoted it because it was not in question. My OP had nothing to do with the land God promised to Abraham's descendants.

You need to stay on topic.

Lol

My posts have been in respond to the questions you asked.

Which you have yet responded to the answers I gave.

If your going to lie and say I believe something I do not (like you said I said the land was more important than Christ, when my post before said that Christ was the more important and greater promise.) And then call me an antisemite when I say those who rejected God will not get to heaven, and that the NATIONAL promise of land did not guarantee their salvation.

then yes, I am going to report that all day long..

I would rather discuss the word though.. Its hard to do when people keep misrepresenting you

 

[Zao is life]

He did NOT. That was not part of the LAND PROMISE

Can you for once try to stop reading what you want to see in my posts and listen to what i said.

I was talking about the LAND PROMISE..

Vs 7 and 8 in Gen 17.

THAT PROMISE did NOT INCLUDE a promise that EVERYONE IN THAT NATION WOUlD BE SAVED

lol.. Once again, you show a lack of listening to what is being said.

if you cannot read and understand and just want to pick and pull..


Once again, Can you look at that post and show me were I erred.. I suggest you read YOUR COMMENTS that I was responding to. And understand in context why I said what I said.

Yes. The land promise has nothing to do with the salvation of Abraham's natural descendants or anyone else's salvation. Nothing. You're mixing things up that do not belong together.

Do you see why you had me totally confused? Since Genesis 3:15 God promised the entire human race salvation in the seed of Abraham. He just had not called Abraham yet to be the father of the seed of promise, of the nations descended from his grandson Jacob, and a multitude of nations.

@Eternally Grateful All you said was "God never promised THAT NATION salvation".

Now you finally explain what you meant:

THAT PROMISE did NOT INCLUDE a promise that EVERYONE IN THAT NATION WOUlD BE SAVED

Whether or not the people remained in the land depended on their faith-fulness. It's contained in the law given to them when God brought them into the land.

PS: Since you want to report my posts when you harp on land and the promise of land post after post and then in-between that say that God never promised THAT NATION salvation, I won't continue this discussion with you anyway.

Report away.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Who is God talking to in the following verses. Is it

A. The small handful of the ten tribes who escaped to Judah in 725 BC and were never scattered and became amalgamated with the Jews?, or

B. Those who were scattered?

Hosea 1
6 And she conceived again and bore a daughter. And God said to him, Call her name No-mercy, for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel. But I will utterly take them away.
8 And when she had weaned Lo-ruhamah, she conceived and bore a son.
9 And He said, Call his name Not-my-people. For you are not My people, and I will not be for you.
10 Yet the number of the sons of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered. And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living God.

did God promise the sons of Abraham Isaac and jacob a plot of land as an eternal inheritance forever throughout all their generations?

Did The prophet say the following?

Ez 37: 11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’ ”

18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” ’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.

21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

And did not Paul say this?

Rom 11: 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Look, I do not know who the 12 tribes are. I do not even know how we tell who they are. I just know God made a promise. And God keeps his promises. If he says he will restor them to their land, I trust he will. And do not question it.

I also do not try to insert the Church (gentiles) into that promise (replacement theology) because that is not what the word says

 

[Zao is life]

did God promise the sons of Abraham Isaac and jacob a plot of land as an eternal inheritance forever throughout all their generations?

Did The prophet say the following?

Ez 37: 11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’ ”

18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” ’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.

21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

And did not Paul say this?

Rom 11: 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Look, I do not know who the 12 tribes are. I do not even know how we tell who they are. I just know God made a promise. And God keeps his promises. If he says he will restor them to their land, I trust he will. And do not question it.

I also do not try to insert the Church (gentiles) into that promise (replacement theology) because that is not what the word says

Since you want to report my posts when you harp on land and the promise of land post after post and then in-between that say that God never promised THAT NATION salvation, without explaining that you meant that the promise of land is not linked to their salvation, and only explain it after reporting my response, I won't continue this discussion with you anyway.

Report away.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes. The land promise has nothing to do with the salvation of Abraham's natural descendants or anyone else's salvation. Nothing. You're mixing things up that do not belong together.

No I am not mixing anything up, I put two aspects of the abrahamic covenant in perspective,

The salvic aspect (in you shall all nations of the world be blessed (Christ)

And the land promise (I give this land to you and all your generations as a gift)

Can you go back and read what i said and why? Why will you not do that and continue to misrepresent me?

Do you see why you had me totally confused? Since Genesis 3:15 God promised the entire human race salvation in the seed of Abraham. He just had not called Abraham yet to be the father of the seed of promise, of the nations descended from his grandson Jacob, and a multitude of nations.

All you said was "God never promised THAT NATION salvation".

Ok, lets sit here for a minUte,

You pulled one small sentence out of Post 184, and called me antisemetic based on that one small sentence.

and totally ignored everything else I wrote.

Is that why you were confused? Because you were looking for something?

Now you finally explain what you meant:

THAT PROMISE did NOT INCLUDE a promise that EVERYONE IN THAT NATION WOUlD BE SAVED

PS: Since you want to report my posts when you harp on land and the promise of land post after post and then in-between that say that God never promised THAT NATION salvation, I won't continue this discussion with you anyway.

Report away.

I reported your post because you called me an antisemite, an antigospel, Unchristian..

And in the post before. You claimed I considered the land more important than Christ even though I said in the previous post the opposite.

If your going to bear false witness and name call.. What else should I do?

I even reported your post before you went in and edited it.. I did not see you added to it until After I reported it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Since you want to report my posts when you harp on land and the promise of land post after post and then in-between that say that God never promised THAT NATION salvation, without explaining that you meant that the promise of land is not linked to their salvation, and only explain it after reporting my response, I won't continue this discussion with you anyway.

Report away.

Since you have not responded to my post before. I do not expect you to respond to this one.

Love your excuses..

however. I do except your apology.. Most people would not do that. Thank you

 

[Zao is life]

however. I do except your apology.. Most people would not do that. Thank you

And I accept yours. Thank you.

 

[Zao is life]

Matthew 21:43
Therefore I say to you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing out its fruits.

When Jesus had died and risen again, the remnant of believing Jews, who were not broken off through unbelief (Romans 11:17), ensured the continuation of Israel. There was never any new Israel:

Romans 11:1, 5
I say then, Did not God put away His people? Let it not be said! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. At this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Gentiles who believed were grafted in among the remnant (Romans 11:17), and together the Jewish believers + Gentile believers in Christ have been the citizens of the elect nation, ever since.

Any individual Jew (naturally born descendant of Abraham) who repents of his or her unbelief will be grafted in again (Romans 11:23-32).

Though there was no "new Israel" created after the death and resurrection of Christ, there was indeed a new temple formed through the Spirit of Christ in the believers, so that the believing Jews + believing Gentiles are the living stones who together form a new temple in Christ - the New Covenant Temple, i.e, the church, which = Israel, because it's made of of the citizens of the nation.

In some modern churches, there are those who adhere to a new theology born a hundred or more years ago: a replacement theology whereby they replace Christ, the promised seed of Abraham, and those who are in Him through faith in Him, with people who are not part of Israel but have remained broken off through unbelief.

These same people who adhere to the above replacement theology will often point a finger at whoever disagrees with their theology, saying those who adhere to true and sound biblical truth (as expressed above) are the ones who are adhering to replacement theology - a false claim.

God is not mocked. Jesus will correct their error in due course. Whether or not His correction of their error will involve a rebuke depends entirely upon Himself and on whether or not He regards their error as sinful because it seeks to replace Him and His people, but it's most certainly true that Jesus will correct all theological error, in due course.

Another theological error is to separate any of the promises of God to Abraham from the promised seed of Abraham, who is Jesus:

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to your seed, which is Christ. -- Galatians 3:16

For example, the following promise is to the seed of Abraham, and His own inheritance cannot be separated from Christ, the seed of Abraham, and was never promised to any descendant of Abraham who did not believe (the Word of) God the way Abraham did:

And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto your seed will I give this land: and there built he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him. -- Genesis 12:17.

It's the seed of Abraham's inheritance, who is Christ, the Word of God, and through Him, Israel's inheritance - the inheritance of those who believe in Him, either through the same faith in the Word of God that Abraham had before Jesus came into the world, or in the Son of God and promised seed of Abraham Himself.

In the mean time, a territory was given by the United nations to the Jews in 1948, and that territory is therefore legitimately theirs. The United Nations created it, and it cannot legitimately ever be taken away, and it SHOULD never be taken away again, any more than any other country that became independent in the last few hundred years can have their independence removed by anyone.

The Jury is still in session as to whether or not God's providence was involved in the creation of the country now called Israel, but that does not matter - no one has the right to remove it.

As for the Jews who do not believe in Jesus and are broken off from Israel, they are beloved of God because of His love for their patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Romans 11:28), and no one who believes in Jesus and worships Him does not, or has never had the same sense of love for them, because the Spirit of Christ loves them. They are still beloved, and He desires nothing less than their salvation through their repentance of their unbelief, so that He can bless them.

However to separate the land promised to the seed of Abraham from the seed of Abraham, who is Christ, is erroneous theology built upon erroroneous theology and a failure to understand the scriptures.​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Matthew 21:43
Therefore I say to you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing out its fruits.

When Jesus had died and risen again, the remnant of believing Jews, who were not broken off through unbelief (Romans 11:17), ensured the continuation of Israel. There was never any new Israel:

Romans 11:1, 5
I say then, Did not God put away His people? Let it not be said! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. At this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Gentiles who believed were grafted in among the remnant (Romans 11:17), and together the Jewish believers + Gentile believers in Christ have been the citizens of the elect nation, ever since.

Any individual Jew (naturally born descendant of Abraham) who repents of his or her unbelief will be grafted in again (Romans 11:23-32).

Though there was no "new Israel" created after the death and resurrection of Christ, there was indeed a new temple formed through the Spirit of Christ in the believers, so that the believing Jews + believing Gentiles are the living stones who together form a new temple in Christ - the New Covenant Temple, i.e, the church, which = Israel, because it's made of of the citizens of the nation.

In some modern churches, there are those who adhere to a new theology born a hundred or more years ago: a replacement theology whereby they replace Christ, the promised seed of Abraham, and those who are in Him through faith in Him, with people who are not part of Israel but have remained broken off through unbelief.

These same people who adhere to the above replacement theology will often point a finger at whoever disagrees with their theology, saying those who adhere to true and sound biblical truth (as expressed above) are the ones who are adhering to replacement theology - a false claim.

God is not mocked. Jesus will correct their error in due course. Whether or not His correction of their error will involve a rebuke depends entirely upon Himself and on whether or not He regards their error as sinful because it seeks to replace Him and His people, but it's most certainly true that Jesus will correct all theological error, in due course.

Another theological error is to separate any of the promises of God to Abraham from the promised seed of Abraham, who is Jesus:

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to your seed, which is Christ. -- Galatians 3:16

For example, the following promise is to the seed of Abraham, and His own inheritance cannot be separated from Christ, the seed of Abraham, and was never promised to any descendant of Abraham who did not believe (the Word of) God the way Abraham did:

And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto your seed will I give this land: and there built he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him. -- Genesis 12:17.

It's the seed of Abraham's inheritance, who is Christ, the Word of God, and through Him, Israel's inheritance - the inheritance of those who believe in Him, either through the same faith in the Word of God that Abraham had before Jesus came into the world, or in the Son of God and promised seed of Abraham Himself.

In the mean time, a territory was given by the United nations to the Jews in 1948, and that territory is therefore legitimately theirs. The United Nations created it, and it cannot legitimately ever be taken away, and it SHOULD never be taken away again, any more than any other country that became independent in the last few hundred years can have their independence removed by anyone.

The Jury is still in session as to whether or not God's providence was involved in the creation of the country now called Israel, but that does not matter - no one has the right to remove it.

As for the Jews who do not believe in Jesus and are broken off from Israel, they are beloved of God because of His love for their patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Romans 11:28), and no one who believes in Jesus and worships Him does not, or has never had the same sense of love for them, because the Spirit of Christ loves them. They are still beloved, and He desires nothing less than their salvation through their repentance of their unbelief, so that He can bless them.

However to separate the land promised to the seed of Abraham from the seed of Abraham, who is Christ, is erroneous theology built upon erroroneous theology and a failure to understand the scriptures.​

You are still trying to take the promise of land Given to one NATION. And try to make it applicable to all people.

This is replacement theology.

The promise of eternal life to all who believe were given to all nations. There is no jew or gentile. They are all one under christ, who is the seed, The seed of which the promise “in you shall all the nations of the earth be blessed”

This promise has nothing to do with the promise (And I give you and your descendents after you this land, all the land of canaan as an ETERNAL gift. And I will be there God.

why is it you want to discuss the one aspect of the covenant, Yet have no desire to discuss the rest of it.

 

[Zao is life]

You are still trying to take the promise of land Given to one NATION. And try to make it applicable to all people.

This is replacement theology.

The promise of eternal life to all who believe were given to all nations. There is no jew or gentile. They are all one under christ, who is the seed, The seed of which the promise “in you shall all the nations of the earth be blessed”

This promise has nothing to do with the promise (And I give you and your descendents after you this land, all the land of canaan as an ETERNAL gift. And I will be there God.

why is it you want to discuss the one aspect of the covenant, Yet have no desire to discuss the rest of it.

Let's just try and get off the squabbling and the threats. I apologize for accusing you of something you did not mean after realizing what you actually meant, once you explained to me what you actually meant, and made it clear.

This is my understanding, and also what I don't understand:

How many tribes in the twelve tribes of Israel? 12

How many were collectively called "Ephraim" by the prophets? 10.

None of these verses below are talking about the Jews or Benjamin or "the house of Judah" or the kingdom of Judah:

Isiah 7:8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within sixty-five years Ephraim shall be broken so that it shall not be a people.

"Ephraim" (the vast majority of the ten Northern tribes of Israel) was judged by God in 725 B.C, exiled from the land, became scattered among the nations, where their descendants have been intermarrying with Gentiles to this day.

This prophecy is also about them when they were judged (remember, it's not talking about the Jews):

Hosea 1
9 And He said, Call his name Not-my-people. For you are not My people, and I will not be for you.
10 Yet the number of the sons of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered. And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living God.

Now here comes something to close off the prophecy:

11 Then the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel shall be gathered together, and shall set over themselves one head.

Paul in Romans 9 quotes the above prophecy:

22 What if God, willing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction;
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy which He had before prepared to glory;
24 whom He also called, not only us, of Jews, but also of the nations?​

25 As He also says in Hosea, "I will call those not My people, My people; and those not beloved, Beloved."
26 And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God."

Paul is quoting Hosea 1:10, which in its context speaks only about the 10 Northern tribes.

Genesis 48 - Jacob|Israel on his death-bed blessing Joseph's sons:

18 And Joseph said to his father, Not so, my father. For this (Manesseh) is the first-born. Put your right hand on his head.
19 And his father refused and said, I know, my son, I know. He (Manesseh) also shall become a people, and he also shall be great, but truly his younger brother (Ephraim) shall be greater than he is, and his seed shall become [Hebrew: m'lo goyim: the fullness of the Gentiles] a multitude of nations.

Romans 4
16 Therefore it is of faith so that it might be according to grace; for the promise to be made sure to all the seed, not only to that which is of the Law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
17 (as it has been written, "I have made you a father of many nations") --before God, whom he believed, who makes the dead live, and calls the things which do not exist as though they do exist.
18 For he who beyond hope believed on hope for him to become the father of many nations (according to that which was spoken, "So your seed shall be").

After entering the promised land, the ten Northern tribes received their land-inheritance in Samaria and the parts that later became called Israel, and in the Old Testament the ten Northern tribes are called the house of Israel, Ephraim, and sometimes Israel, interchangeably.

The Jews and the tribe of Benjamin received their land-inheritance in the Southern kingdom of Judah, and Judah or "the Jews" is also called Judah and Israel interchangeably in the Old Testament.
​

Sometimes when both "the house of Israel" and "the house of Judah" are mentioned, the expression "the whole house of Israel" comes up.

​

Today's Jews occupy Israel, not Judah (except for settlements in Judah, a.k.a "the West Bank"), though the territory of Israel is theirs, legitimately. (I'm almost 100% sure that's why the Jews called their new country that was formed in 1948 Israel, and not Judah or Judea (as it had been known throughout, ever since they first occupied the land, until the Romans expelled them in the 1st and 2nd centuries).

Many Jews did live all over the territory of the former Northern kingdom of Israel even in the 1st century, though most of the Jews lived in Judea.

However, whatever God promised to Abraham belongs to Christ, and whomsoever He chooses to give it to. It's His inheritance.

I was just being cheeky about the Gentiles who believe in Jesus, who are now part of Israel, being among those who received their land-inheritance way back when the 12 tribes of Israel were each first apportioned their parts.

BUT the prophecy you quoted in Ezekiel and the one I quoted in Hosea - and others - prophesy a return to the land for both the house of Israel and the house of Judah and a unification of both in the land.

I do not know how literally (or not) to take it, or how to interpret those prophecies, nor do I know how "Ephraim" (the ten tribes) can ever be restored to the land, since those "lost ten tribes" are no longer one nation, but many nations.

So with regard to land-inheritance I'm not trying to replace Jews with anyone else.
​

Maybe you can explain how many nations of "Ephraim" or the "lost ten tribes", if any, are going to be included in the fulfillment of the Ezekiel prophecy that you quoted, or the Hosea prophecy I quoted, if the fulfillment is indeed meant to be literal - because in those prophecies they are all said to be gathered back into the land and unified in the land: Israel + Judah.

 

[covenantee]

This promise has nothing to do with the promise (And I give you and your descendents after you this land, all the land of canaan as an ETERNAL gift.

If the land is an ETERNAL gift, then circumcision is an EVERLASTING sign.

Genesis 17
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Is it?

Romans 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Let's just try and get off the squabbling and the threats. I apologize for accusing you of something you did not mean after realizing what you actually meant, once you explained to me what you actually meant, and made it clear.

This is my understanding, and also what I don't understand:

How many tribes in the twelve tribes of Israel? 12

How many were collectively called "Ephraim" by the prophets? 10.

None of these verses below are talking about the Jews or Benjamin or "the house of Judah" or the kingdom of Judah:
​

(i had to cut some of your post to make the response less than 1000 characters

Once again.

did God promise the sons of Abraham Isaac and jacob a plot of land as an eternal inheritance forever throughout all their generations?

Gen 15:
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

Notice this was an unconditional covenant

Gen 17:
7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Did The prophet say the following?

Ez 37: 11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’ ”

18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” ’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.

21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

And did not Paul say this?

Rom 11: 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Look, I do not know who the 12 tribes are. I do not even know how we tell who they are. I just know God made a promise. And God keeps his promises. If he says he will restore them to their land, I trust he will.

If we do not believe God keeps his promises. How can we trust him with anything?

I also do not try to insert the Church (gentiles) into that (Land) promise (replacement theology) because that is not what the word says.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If the land is an ETERNAL gift, then circumcision is an EVERLASTING sign.

Genesis 17
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Is it?

Romans 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

It is, For the jew.

But its not. for salvation. It never was.

The jew thought because they were born of the nation of Israel they got an automatic in to heaven, they also thought because they had the sign that they had to take to be part of that covenant, that circumcision must be required for salvation.

Paul rejected that idea, and fought against it. (to add to your verses, romans 9 - 11 Paul used to refute the notion also)

 

[Zao is life]

Gen 15:
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

Notice this was an unconditional covenant

Thanks for your reply, Eternally Grateful.

The above promise you quote was also not solicited by Abraham.

So I'm not arguing your point - but I do have questions I'd like you to answer, and I'd like you to pretend you are my teacher, and your student (me) is asking you difficult questions, so that you don't see it as me "arguing with you in order to prove you are wrong". I can also learn if what you say proves ME wrong.

1. Does the above promise apply to all the seed of Abraham, even those who do not believe, who Paul says are broken off in Romans 11?

2. Why did Paul say that not ALL who are descended of Israel, are Israel, linking the seed of Israel to the seed of promise, who is Jesus (Romans 9:6-7)?​

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

3. What covenant did Jesus say is the covenant in His blood, shed for the forgiveness of sins?

4. What is it about what Paul was saying about the breaking off of some of the natural branches through their unbelief in Jesus, that causes you to believe the above verse are still to be fulfilled?

5. Paul says in Romans 11:23 that IF branches who had been broken off change their minds and turn to Jesus, they will be grafted back in again. Why does he say this will occur? (I ask because from what I can see, Paul gives three reasons why they will be grafted back in again if they change their minds):-

(a) because though for a time they were enemies of the gospel, they are still beloved for the sake of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, their fathers; and

(b) because God has had mercy on the Gentiles who believed, therefore He will have mercy on the natural branches who change their minds.

(c) because God is able to graft them back in again.

6. Does the above (Romans 11:23-32) apply to the the natural branches who have believed through the apostles' testimony, or through anyone's testimony, since then until now?

7. has the fullness of the Gentiles been coming in since Christ shed His blood for the forgiveness of sins, or is this fulfillment waiting for His return?

8. What is the fate of all the natural descendants of Abraham who have died in unbelief since Jesus shed His blood for the forgiveness of sins? Is it the same as the fate of Gentiles who hear the gospel and reject it?

9. When Paul says "all Israel" will be saved, does he mean those who he said are not Israel in Romans 9:6-7?:

Not however that the word of God has failed, for not all those of Israel are Israel; nor because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children.

10. Does the word "all" in reference to the seed of Israel in Jeremiah 31:37 have any correlation with the word "all" in Romans 9:6?

I have no more questions about Romans 11 for now that I'd like you to answer.

Just so you know, I have a hope that I hold in my mind and heart that's strong enough to cause me to stop myself from turning it into a belief, that all Jews will eventually turn to Jesus - but this hope is not based on Romans 11. It's based on Joseph and his 11 bothers in Egypt, and how Joseph's estrangement with his brothers ended, how he was reconciled to them, and what took place afterward.​

Gen 17:

7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Did The prophet say the following?

Ez 37: 11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’ ”

18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” ’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.

21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.​

Yes. He did say it. I have a question about the above:

Will the reunification of the house of Israel with the house of Judah mentioned above take place in Christ, or regardless of Christ?​

Look, I do not know who the 12 tribes are. I do not even know how we tell who they are. I just know God made a promise. And God keeps his promises. If he says he will restore them to their land, I trust he will.

I agree. God will keep His promise. I just don't know whether it's talking about what will take place in the millennium, or in the NHNE. All I know is I don't see it yet: Israel is not now living in a land of unwalled villages in peace and safety. The prophet also said that the only thing that will break that peace and safety is Gog of Magog.

The thousand years in Revelation 20 seems to end with something similar, or maybe the same thing.​

I also do not try to insert the Church (gentiles) into that (Land) promise (replacement theology) because that is not what the word says.

I would only insert Gentiles who are in Christ, who together with Jews in Christ, are one in Christ Jesus if God Himself inserts Gentiles into Israel (grafts them into the Olive tree) and calls them the house of Israel (i.e the 10 tribes who were lost but will be joined into one stick with Judah - the Jews),

which either way, I can only see as taking place in Christ.

After all, only the descendants of the tribe of Judah, are Jews, and Benjamin and some Levites have become amalgamated with Judah. The other ten tribes - all who were exiled in 725 BC - are lost.

Yet Paul included Gentiles in his statement in Romans 9:22-26 regarding the fulfillment of Hosea 1:9-11 (which speaks only about the 10 tribes who are now lost), and why he did so is a mystery to me.​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thanks for your reply, Eternally Grateful.

The above promise you quote was also not solicited by Abraham.

So I'm not arguing your point - but I do have questions I'd like you to answer, and I'd like you to pretend you are my teacher, and your student (me) is asking you difficult questions, so that you don't see it as me "arguing with you in order to prove you are wrong". I can also learn if what you say proves ME wrong.

1. Does the above promise apply to all the seed of Abraham, even those who do not believe, who Paul says are broken off in Romans 11?​

This is long, I pray you read it. For every word and scripture is needed to answer this question completely

If you look at this with Gen 17. You see 2 things.

1. It was a one way covenant. God said I give you, Unlike a 2 way covenant, when God says if you do this, I will do that.
2. In both passages. the promise to given to every one of his descendants. not just a select few. And again, there was no requirements for the people to keep to be part of this covenant promise.
3. The covenant was made with Abraham, He was the one to home the covenant was made. this covenant then passes down to his offspring. as it was his..
4. The covenant was reconfirmed with Both Issac And Jacob/Israel

Issac

Gen 26, 3 Dwell in this land, and I will be with you and bless you; for to you and your descendants I give all these lands, and I will perform the oath which I swore to Abraham your father. 4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Notice also. He explained why.; it was not because they were good. It was because ABRAHAM believed. And because abraham was obedient. it had nothing to do with how Good Issac or Jacob or anyone else was. or wither they believed or not.

Gen 35:
9 Then God appeared to Jacob again, when he came from Padan Aram, and blessed him. 10 And God said to him, “Your name is Jacob; your name shall not be called Jacob anymore, but Israel shall be your name.” So He called his name Israel. 11 Also God said to him: “I am God Almighty. Be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall proceed from you, and kings shall come from your body. 12 The land which I gave Abraham and Isaac I give to you; and to your descendants after you I give this land.

So we see the promise being passed from one child to the next, And we know through Jacob/Israel, it was passed to all 12 of his sons.

Also. If we look at Israel after they entered the land. and after they were given the law. There is one chapter we can look to to show us what will happen when THE NATION obeys. and when THEY nations turns and sins.

Lev 26:

for obedience

3 ‘If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them,
4 then I will give you rain in its season, the land shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
5 Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing;
you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
6 I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none will make youafraid;
I will rid the land of evil[b] beasts,
and the sword will not go through your land.
7 You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you.
8 Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight;
your enemies shall fall by the sword before you.
9 ‘For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you.
10 You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.
11 I will set My [c]tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you.
12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people.
13 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that you should not be their slaves;
I have broken the bands of your yoke and made you walk upright.

We see Peace and safety IN THE LAND..

But if they turn and disobey. God gives what I like to call 5 cycles of discipline he will impose on the nation.

1st punishment
14 ‘But if you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments,
15 and if you despise My statutes, or if your soul abhors My judgments, so that you do not perform all My commandments, but break My covenant, 16 I also will do this to you:
read vs 16 and 17 for what will happen

2. Second
18 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
read 19 and 20 for what will happen.

3rd.
21 ‘Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins.
Read 22 for what will happen

4th
23 ‘And if by these things you are not reformed by Me, but walk contrary to Me, 24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
read 25 and 26 for what will happen

5th
27 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me, 28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.

This is the most important punishment in our conversation. For I think this will explain everything so I will post the punishment.

29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your [h]sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.


I think you will recognize. this final form of discipline happened three times in scripture.

1. The northern kingdom of Israel. By Assyria,
2. The southern kingdom of Judah, By Babylon
3. The final one in 70 AD by Rome.

Notice 2 things

Between 2 and 3. Judah did not repent. Yet God restored them. which had to heppen for Christ to be born (the 70 weeks of Daniel)

and since 70 AD. they are still in sin.. But must be allowed back into the land for end time events to happen. (Again, a temple must be present)

The final point, is after these destruction's. Is it final?

Lev 26 answers this question also

40 ‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
43 The land also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them;
they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes.
44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;
for I am the Lord their God.
45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:
I am the Lord.’ ”

I will break this up. Not even sure this will make it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

2. Why did Paul say that not ALL who are descended of Israel, are Israel, linking the seed of Israel to the seed of promise, who is Jesus (Romans 9:6-7)?​

Paul is answering the question posed in Vs 6. has god made a mistake. mistake doing what? Choosing Israel.
1. The first argument he is addressing is the argument the Jew had. I am a Jew, so by Birth I am saved.. plus I have the law.. We are Gods people. Yet these people rejected Christ and had him crucified. Hence the question. did God make a mistake
2. This part of the promise is the salvation aspect of the covenant, In you (christ) shall all nations be blessed. So in this aspect. Being a physical descendant of Israel does not mean you are automatically saved. ie, not all Israel is Israel..(through the spiritual birth of Christ.)

3. What covenant did Jesus say is the covenant in His blood, shed for the forgiveness of sins?​

The new covenant

Matthew 26:28

For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

he is referencing here the old covenant (the covenant or law of Moses) and instituting a new covenant, as he fulfilled that law.

4. What is it about what Paul was saying about the breaking off of some of the natural branches through their unbelief in Jesus, that causes you to believe the above verse are still to be fulfilled?​

This is about the restoration of Israel. When he says they will all be saved because they have repented.

When you see an OT passage quoted. You need to go to the source to see what is being spoken of.

This is a quote from Is 59. In this passage, Israel confesses her sins to God. and God hears the confession and comes to turn the ungodliness from Jacob.

it is not just said here. The other passage I wrote to you earlier says the same thing

ez 37: 22
and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

see also Jer 30:

3 For behold, the days are coming,’ says the Lord, ‘that I will bring back from captivity My people Israel and Judah,’ says the Lord. ‘And I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.’ ”
8: ‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’ Says the Lord of hosts, ‘That I will break his yoke from your neck, And will burst your bonds; Foreigners shall no more enslave them. 9 But they shall serve the Lord their God,
10: ‘Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,
‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with you,’ says the Lord, ‘to save you;
Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,
Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
For I will restore health to you
And heal you of your wounds,’ says the Lord,
‘Because they called you an outcast saying:
“This is Zion;
No one seeks her.” ’

18 “Thus says the Lord:

‘Behold, I will bring back the captivity of Jacob’s tents,
And have mercy on his dwelling places;
The city shall be built upon its own [d]mound,
And the palace shall remain according to its own plan.
19 Then out of them shall proceed thanksgiving
And the voice of those who make merry;
I will multiply them, and they shall not diminish;
I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.
20 Their children also shall be as before,
And their congregation shall be established before Me;

again, Will split this up so it does not get to be to much or confusing

 

[covenantee]

It is, For the jew.

It was a requirement of God's OT covenant with faithful obedient Israelites (which included Gentiles, Genesis 17:12).

But Under God's NT covenant, physical circumcision is no longer everlasting; it is entirely replaced by spiritual circumcision. Romans 2:28,29

For Jew and Gentile alike.

Likewise, the OT land promise is no longer eternal; it is entirely replaced by NT fulfillment and inheritance in Christ and those who are Christ's. 2 Corinthians 1:20; Galatians 3:16,29; Hebrews 1:1,2; Romans 8:17.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

5. Paul says in Romans 11:23 that IF branches who had been broken off change their minds and turn to Jesus, they will be grafted back in again. Why does he say this will occur? (I ask because from what I can see, Paul gives three reasons why they will be grafted back in again if they change their minds):-

(a) because though for a time they were enemies of the gospel, they are still beloved for the sake of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, their fathers; and

(b) because God has had mercy on the Gentiles who believed, therefore He will have mercy on the natural branches who change their minds.

(c) because God is able to graft them back in again.​

Again, look at the passage.

Israel rebelled and crucified Christ.

Chapter 11 answers the question, is God done with Israel.

11 I say then, has God cast away His people?

Because of Israels rebellion. And the gentile receiving (which in the end of Chapter 9 he says was prophesied anyway)

God is making it a point, as a natural branch, it will be much easier for Israel to receive, than it was for a Gentile (an unnatural branch)

so if (when) they repent. they will be grafted back in (the part of Israel that was blinded in part)

Point a has nothing to do with them grafted back in, they are grafted back in because they repent. Lev 26 says they must repent to be restored.. All the OT verses I have shown you says they will repent. and they will be restored..

6. Does the above (Romans 11:23-32) apply to the the natural branches who have believed through the apostles' testimony, or through anyone's testimony, since then until now?​

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

It tells us when.

1. When the fullness of the gentile comes (that is another discussion as to when this happens)
2. When the deliverer comes to restore Israel.

Today, right here and right now. they are blinded in part..

the 2 events have yet to happen, they are yet future.

7. has the fullness of the Gentiles been coming in since Christ shed His blood for the forgiveness of sins, or is this fulfillment waiting for His return?​

Again, this is a large topic itself. There are 2 general views.

1. This happens when every last gentile is saved

2. This happens when the final Gentile kingdom is destroyed at the return of Christ, In fulfilling the time of the gentiles as seen in Dan 2, Dan 7 and others. When God comes back and puts an end to Gentile dominion over Israel.

I believe number 2 is correct. because we see through OT prophets. that at this time, Israel also repents and is restored. it is the return of Christ. When he returns, he restores Israel and gathers them from all corners of the earth..

8. What is the fate of all the natural descendants of Abraham who have died in unbelief since Jesus shed His blood for the forgiveness of sins? Is it the same as the fate of Gentiles who hear the gospel and reject it?​

The fate of any person, saved be it Jew, gentile Israel or whoever from the time of adam who rejects Christ is the great white throne judgment, and hell

he who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.

it does not matter who your parents were

9. When Paul says "all Israel" will be saved, does he mean those who he said are not Israel in Romans 9:6-7?:​

No, different context.. All Israel in chapter 11 is those who believe, and those at the time who are blinded in part..

I got the to long warning again, so will cut one more time