NEWSFLASH: Abraham was not a Jew. Neither was Isaac. Neither was Jacob.
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Why have you left Jesus out of the equation yet again and made it all about "the Jews"?
How did Jesus come into the world, when He took on human flesh?
Abraham fathered Isaac, who fathered Jacob|Israel who fathered 12 sons, one of whom was Judah, patriarch of the Jews and of king David, patriarch (through Mary) of Jesus, through whom all nations of the earth are blessed, and to whom the promise pertains (Galatians 3:16). Those who are in Him through faith in Him inherit the promise.
As for those who reject Him, as it is written, "For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall all of you hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people." --Acts 3:22-23; Deuteronomy 18:15, 18-19.
How did Jesus come into the world, when He took on human flesh?
Abraham fathered Isaac, who fathered Jacob|Israel who fathered 12 sons, one of whom was Judah, patriarch of the Jews and of king David, patriarch (through Mary) of Jesus, through whom all nations of the earth are blessed, and to whom the promise pertains (Galatians 3:16). Those who are in Him through faith in Him inherit the promise.
As for those who reject Him, as it is written, "For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall all of you hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people." --Acts 3:22-23; Deuteronomy 18:15, 18-19.
The land apportioned by God to the Jews (Judah|Judea) is today known as "the West Bank" or "Palestine" and it has not been restored to the Jews. Those who have settled in that territory are declared to be occupying the land illegally by the United Nations.
The Jews have not been restored to the land allotted to them by God, but have instead been given a piece of territory that was allotted to ten of the twelve tribes of Jacob|Israel, who likewise were cut off from God and exiled in 725 B.C.
The Jews, like the rest of Israel, also broke the covenant later given through Moses, and broke it repeatedly, and with the exception of a small remnant, they have rejected the New Covenant in Christ's blood.
Paul made it 100% clear that as a result, they have been cut off from God's people, though all individual Jews who repent of their unbelief, will be grafted back in again (Jeremiah 31:31; Romans 11:23).
Bearing in mind what God said to Moses, why have the Jews not been restored to the land God promised them (Judah|Judea a.k.a "the West Bank")? Why do they not rule over the Jews' own own territory, even today? And why do they not have the privilege of building another temple on the Temple Mount if they wanted to?
The Jews have not been restored to the land allotted to them by God, but have instead been given a piece of territory that was allotted to ten of the twelve tribes of Jacob|Israel, who likewise were cut off from God and exiled in 725 B.C.
The Jews, like the rest of Israel, also broke the covenant later given through Moses, and broke it repeatedly, and with the exception of a small remnant, they have rejected the New Covenant in Christ's blood.
Paul made it 100% clear that as a result, they have been cut off from God's people, though all individual Jews who repent of their unbelief, will be grafted back in again (Jeremiah 31:31; Romans 11:23).
Bearing in mind what God said to Moses, why have the Jews not been restored to the land God promised them (Judah|Judea a.k.a "the West Bank")? Why do they not rule over the Jews' own own territory, even today? And why do they not have the privilege of building another temple on the Temple Mount if they wanted to?
If you do not understand why this applies to Christ (the seed God promised to Abraham, who was to come through Israel and the tribe of Judah) and the reason why those Jews who do not believe in Him (do not believe God's promise to Abraham, appropriating it to themselves instead of the One seed to whom the promise pertains) have been cut off from Israel, then you do not know the gospel and do not understand the biblical scriptures. Hence the reason we're stuck in this conversation and why you do not understand what I'm talking about.
You're appropriating God's promises to Abraham to one of the twelve tribes of Israel - the Jews - instead of to the seed of the promise, who is Christ. And you're appropriating it to an unbelieving tribe of Israel who, though God loves for the sake of their fathers, nevertheless cannot (will not) save or bless while they reject Christ, nor restore them to the land promised to Judah (which is not Israel, the land currently ruled by Jews).
Jesus, the King of the Jews and the promised seed of Abraham, is the One who inherits God's promises to Abraham. The kingdom of Judah|Judea is His inheritance. All the land of all twelve tribes of Israel is His inheritance. Will all the Jews hand His rightful possession over to Him?
You're appropriating God's promises to Abraham to one of the twelve tribes of Israel - the Jews - instead of to the seed of the promise, who is Christ. And you're appropriating it to an unbelieving tribe of Israel who, though God loves for the sake of their fathers, nevertheless cannot (will not) save or bless while they reject Christ, nor restore them to the land promised to Judah (which is not Israel, the land currently ruled by Jews).
Jesus, the King of the Jews and the promised seed of Abraham, is the One who inherits God's promises to Abraham. The kingdom of Judah|Judea is His inheritance. All the land of all twelve tribes of Israel is His inheritance. Will all the Jews hand His rightful possession over to Him?
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Replacing Israel - Jews in Christ - with Jews who are not in Christ and have been cut off from Israel, is replacement theology.
By the way, Gentiles who believe in Jesus are also added to Israel.
God cuts the rest of the Jews off through their unbelief, and never adds any unbelieving Gentiles either.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I did not leave it out. You did. And once again, you left a verse out.
And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in[f] which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
He says he will be their God twice in both instances.
and he is speaking of the nation born out of Jacob/Israel. And why do you keep bringing up the “jew‘ name?
In the time of christ, the nation of Israel (all 12 tribes) were called jews because they lived in JUDAH.
what? are you serious?
Yes, I am part of all the nations of the earth.
I am not part of the one nation for whom was given all the land of canaan as an eternal possession.
yes, they will not be in heaven. God never promised THAT NATION salvation. He promised them Land.
Abraham never received the promise of land, But he will recieve the promise of heaven. a far better promise.
I never said it was.
But they will be building a temple. Because in order for prophecy to come try about the last days. There must be a temple in Herusalem for the man of sin to defile
I am just interpreting the word of God as written, and not tryign to read anythign into it or change it.
Thank you…
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No
Replacing the land promise given oNLY to Israel with the church, as you are doing, is called replacement theology.
sorry Bro. Np gentile is given ]art of the land promise. Although in the OT there were provisions for Gentiles to be included with the promises that were associated with the land promise. it was only given to israel.
This is not a salvation issue
The salvation promise was in you ALL NATIONS (IsraelJew/Gentile) will be blessed
the non salvation promise is I give you all the land of Canaan as an inheritance throughout all their generations, And I will be there God
I suggest you do your best to get all Jews in Christ so that He might restore Judah|Judea to them - otherwise you will have to restore it to them yourself.
If you do try and restore the West Bank (Judah|Judea, which is the territory God gave to the Jews) then before you restore it to the Jews you will need to boot out the Palestinian Arabs. Good luck with that, and with the United Nations.
If you want to restore the territory God gave to the ten Northern tribes of Israel back to them, you will have to boot out all the Jews living there, and tell them all to relocate to Judah|Judea (the West Bank), which is the territory God gave to the Jews. Good luck with that too.
PS: You can allow the Jews to keep Jerusalem though, because that was always part of Judah|Judea, and was always the Jews' capital city.
Also, before you try and do God's will for Him or decide what His will is, you will need to do your homework about which land He gave to the Jews and Benjamin, and which to the ten tribes He exiled in 725 BC and has never allowed to return, and you will need to find those lost ten tribes before you do so. You're more likely to find the lost Ark of the Covenant and become THE world-famous Raider Of The Lost Ark.
Step aside, Harrison Ford.
Or maybe you should just stop telling God what His will is regarding anyone who does not believe in Jesus, and start finding the answers to all these questions in scripture - both in the Old and in the New Testaments.
You've made God's promise to Abraham regarding the land given to his descendants more important than God's promise to Abraham about his seed, who is Christ.
If you do try and restore the West Bank (Judah|Judea, which is the territory God gave to the Jews) then before you restore it to the Jews you will need to boot out the Palestinian Arabs. Good luck with that, and with the United Nations.
If you want to restore the territory God gave to the ten Northern tribes of Israel back to them, you will have to boot out all the Jews living there, and tell them all to relocate to Judah|Judea (the West Bank), which is the territory God gave to the Jews. Good luck with that too.
PS: You can allow the Jews to keep Jerusalem though, because that was always part of Judah|Judea, and was always the Jews' capital city.
Also, before you try and do God's will for Him or decide what His will is, you will need to do your homework about which land He gave to the Jews and Benjamin, and which to the ten tribes He exiled in 725 BC and has never allowed to return, and you will need to find those lost ten tribes before you do so. You're more likely to find the lost Ark of the Covenant and become THE world-famous Raider Of The Lost Ark.
Step aside, Harrison Ford.
Or maybe you should just stop telling God what His will is regarding anyone who does not believe in Jesus, and start finding the answers to all these questions in scripture - both in the Old and in the New Testaments.
You've made God's promise to Abraham regarding the land given to his descendants more important than God's promise to Abraham about his seed, who is Christ.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
lol. It will happen when the fullness of the gentiles is complete. I suggest you read up on some OT prophecies concerning their restoration and when it will happen.
Who said I am trying to restor them now? What trip are you on, have you ready anything I have said?
1. Your last sentence is an outright lie. Just because it appears you want to REMOVE the land promise, don’t go off and say I place it more important than Christ. Not even Abraham thought it was more important. He looked forward to the better part of the covenant. Which was his place in heaven through his seed (Christ). In fact if you had read my response al all you questions. (Post 484) You would have seen that I said that. So are you willingly lieing about me, or did you not even read my answers to your questions? In fact, here, let me quote it for you.
2. If you want to discuss what will happen to Israel in the later days. I will, However, if you want to attribute things to me I have never said or done. I do not know what to say to you.
Finally, can you do me a favor. I answered all your questions In post 484, Can you show me if I was wrong in any of them? Since you did not read it. (I assume you did not or you would have read about what Abraham thought was the far greater promise)
One of the most un-Christian, anti-gospel, antisemitic statements I have ever read in a Christian forum.
@Eternally Grateful You're clearly obsessed with the promise of land to the descendants of Abraham.
That promise included the portion given to what is now the lost 10 tribes of Israel, which includes Gentiles in Christ because the vast majority of them have been scattered among the nations and have been intermarrying with Gentiles for 2,700 years, and have become totally amalgamated with Gentiles to the point where today the original 10 tribes of Israel are untraceable; and Paul included Gentiles in the fulfillment of the prophecy in Hosea stating that the house of Israel would eventually be brought back to the land of their fathers, and joined to the house of Judah (the Jews) under one Head (Christ). The house of Israel (which includes all Gentiles in Christ) + the house of Judah together in the land God promised to Israel. That's what the prophets promised.
I can only see that coming about in the new heavens and new earth, or at least in the millennium, because I don't think the land is big enough as it is now to fit everyone. It would be a little crowded. But unlike you I don't pretend that I know how God will bring everything together, or whether or not the promise of restoration to land should be interpreted literally, whether in this Age, or the Age to come.
For now I support the Jews in Israel and all around the world, pray for them, pray for their safety in the country called Israel (which I'm glad they inhabit and rule) and the Jews everywhere else in the world with all this Jew-hatred and "From the River to the Sea" chanting going on, so especially at this time my heart is with the Jews, always keeping at the forefront of my mind that what they need long before being brought back into the land of their fathers, and blessed there by being delivered from all their enemies, and what God desires for them more than anything else, is their salvation, which you say God never promised them.
God never promised any human being who is not in Christ salvation, Jew or Gentile. And He never promised anyone naturally born a descendant of Abraham restoration to anything without the King of the Jews and the Lion of the Tribe of Judah being acknowledged as King.
Time to stop obsessing with land promised to the descendants of Abraham and start obsessing with finding ways of getting the gospel out to as many Jewish people as you can.
What I see taking place today is making me believe we might be seeing the beginning phases of the beast rising from the bottomless pit.
@Eternally Grateful You're clearly obsessed with the promise of land to the descendants of Abraham.
That promise included the portion given to what is now the lost 10 tribes of Israel, which includes Gentiles in Christ because the vast majority of them have been scattered among the nations and have been intermarrying with Gentiles for 2,700 years, and have become totally amalgamated with Gentiles to the point where today the original 10 tribes of Israel are untraceable; and Paul included Gentiles in the fulfillment of the prophecy in Hosea stating that the house of Israel would eventually be brought back to the land of their fathers, and joined to the house of Judah (the Jews) under one Head (Christ). The house of Israel (which includes all Gentiles in Christ) + the house of Judah together in the land God promised to Israel. That's what the prophets promised.
I can only see that coming about in the new heavens and new earth, or at least in the millennium, because I don't think the land is big enough as it is now to fit everyone. It would be a little crowded. But unlike you I don't pretend that I know how God will bring everything together, or whether or not the promise of restoration to land should be interpreted literally, whether in this Age, or the Age to come.
For now I support the Jews in Israel and all around the world, pray for them, pray for their safety in the country called Israel (which I'm glad they inhabit and rule) and the Jews everywhere else in the world with all this Jew-hatred and "From the River to the Sea" chanting going on, so especially at this time my heart is with the Jews, always keeping at the forefront of my mind that what they need long before being brought back into the land of their fathers, and blessed there by being delivered from all their enemies, and what God desires for them more than anything else, is their salvation, which you say God never promised them.
God never promised any human being who is not in Christ salvation, Jew or Gentile. And He never promised anyone naturally born a descendant of Abraham restoration to anything without the King of the Jews and the Lion of the Tribe of Judah being acknowledged as King.
Time to stop obsessing with land promised to the descendants of Abraham and start obsessing with finding ways of getting the gospel out to as many Jewish people as you can.
What I see taking place today is making me believe we might be seeing the beginning phases of the beast rising from the bottomless pit.
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Ppl just keep talking in the carnality of the flesh against the Spirit and they eventually reveal themselves for whom they are.
It is not the self righteous but those whom have put on the righteousness of Christ whom are humbled to receive his truth.
2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Let’s find the truth. You took what I said out of context.
You said.
And My response is that THOSE WHO REJECT HIM will not get to heaven.
This is two posts in a row where you have misrepresented me.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
So I say that the land promise of Israel had nothign to do with them getting to heaven, and That those who reject jesus will not get to heaven, and thats a carnal flesh statement against the spirit.
That post you liked was out of line..
You said God never promised THAT NATION salvation.
That's the purpose of God's calling of Abraham - THAT NATION'S salvation, as well as all the world's salvation. But it's through faith in the Word of God like Abraham had, and the Word of God is Jesus.
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 14:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 8:12
“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 14:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 8:12
“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
You chose the words THAT NATION when you said they were not promised salvation.
Why is the land more important to you than their salvation? @Eternally Grateful Your whole discussion in your last few posts has been about land.
My discussion in my OP is about whether or not Israel (twelve tribes) equates with "the Jews", and whether or not naturally born descendants of Abraham have been broken off through unbelief from Israel and from the remnant of Jews who believe.
I was not interested in the promise of the land, but you kept pushing me on it saying I never quoted that part of the promise to Abraham.
I never quoted it because it was not in question. My OP had nothing to do with the land God promised to Abraham's descendants.
Why is the land more important to you than their salvation? @Eternally Grateful Your whole discussion in your last few posts has been about land.
My discussion in my OP is about whether or not Israel (twelve tribes) equates with "the Jews", and whether or not naturally born descendants of Abraham have been broken off through unbelief from Israel and from the remnant of Jews who believe.
I was not interested in the promise of the land, but you kept pushing me on it saying I never quoted that part of the promise to Abraham.
I never quoted it because it was not in question. My OP had nothing to do with the land God promised to Abraham's descendants.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
What I am against is replacement theology, You have taken me out of context. And have outright lied about what i said in two posts.
I am obsessed with the truth.
Your post was out of Line my friend. And has been reported.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
He did NOT. That was not part of the LAND PROMISE
Can you for once try to stop reading what you want to see in my posts and listen to what i said.
I was talking about the LAND PROMISE..
Vs 7 and 8 in Gen 17.
THAT PROMISE did NOT INCLUDE a promise that EVERYONE IN THAT NATION WOUlD BE SAVED
lol.. Once again, you show a lack of listening to what is being said.
if you cannot read and understand and just want to pick and pull..
Once again, Can you look at that post and show me were I erred.. I suggest you read YOUR COMMENTS that I was responding to. And understand in context why I said what I said.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Amen
He also said but as many as have recieved him TO THEM have he the right to become children of God. A new birth. And they will never die.. Because God promised them that
Acts 17:
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Where does this lost ten tribes come from.
All Israel was represented in Judah, When the city was rebuilt by Nehemiah, All Israel returned.
Neh 8: 73 So the priests, the Levites, the gatekeepers, the singers, some of the people, the Nethinim, and all Israel dwelt in their cities.
They were not called Jews then, they were called ALL ISREAL.. showing that representatives and families of all tribes were represented.
All Israel was represented in Judah, When the city was rebuilt by Nehemiah, All Israel returned.
Neh 8: 73 So the priests, the Levites, the gatekeepers, the singers, some of the people, the Nethinim, and all Israel dwelt in their cities.
They were not called Jews then, they were called ALL ISREAL.. showing that representatives and families of all tribes were represented.
OK so you never meant salvation is not meant for the Jews or for the other 11 tribes descended from Abraham when you chose the words THAT NATION. Good.
Report my post all you like but you are the one not making clear what you are saying.
Your whole discussion in your last few posts has been about land.
My discussion in my OP is about whether or not Israel (twelve tribes) equates with "the Jews", and whether or not naturally born descendants of Abraham have been broken off through unbelief from Israel, and from the remnant of Jews who believe who are not broken off from Israel.
I was not interested in the promise of the land, but you kept pushing me on it saying I never quoted that part of the promise to Abraham.
I never quoted it because it was not in question. My OP had nothing to do with the land God promised to Abraham's descendants.
You need to stay on topic.
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