Miracles - Got Any To Share?

[Aunty Jane]

As presently constituted - that’s the key. Our bodies wear out. The kingdom will last forever. The solution is bodies that won’t wear out.

I have a completely different take on that….
Our bodies were originally designed not to die….everlasting life was promised to mortal humans because there is not a single mention of death due to natural causes, mentioned to Adam. ‘Death is the wages of sin’, so if sin had not been introduced, no death would have occurred.

Gen 3:22-24…tells us what happened when sin had taken place….
From the Jewish Tanakh….

“22 Now the Lord God said, "Behold man has become like one of us, having the ability of knowing good and evil, and now, lest he stretch forth his hand and take also from the Tree of Life and eat and live forever."		כבוַיֹּ֣אמֶר | יְהֹוָ֣ה אֱלֹהִ֗ים הֵ֤ן הָֽאָדָם֙ הָיָה֙ כְּאַחַ֣ד מִמֶּ֔נּוּ לָדַ֖עַת ט֣וֹב וָרָ֑ע וְעַתָּ֣ה | פֶּן־יִשְׁלַ֣ח יָד֗וֹ וְלָקַח֙ גַּ֚ם מֵעֵ֣ץ הַֽחַיִּ֔ים וְאָכַ֖ל וָחַ֥י לְעֹלָֽם:
23 And the Lord God sent him out of the Garden of Eden, to till the soil, whence he had been taken.		כגוַיְשַׁלְּחֵ֛הוּ יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהִ֖ים מִגַּן־עֵ֑דֶן לַֽעֲבֹד֙ אֶת־הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר לֻקַּ֖ח מִשָּֽׁם:
24 And He drove the man out, and He stationed from the east of the Garden of Eden the cherubim and the blade of the revolving sword, to guard the way to the Tree of Life.”		כדוַיְגָ֖רֶשׁ אֶת־הָֽאָדָ֑ם וַיַּשְׁכֵּן֩ מִקֶּ֨דֶם לְגַן־עֵ֜דֶן אֶת־הַכְּרֻבִ֗ים וְאֵ֨ת לַ֤הַט הַחֶ֨רֶב֙ הַמִּתְהַפֶּ֔כֶת לִשְׁמֹ֕ר אֶת־דֶּ֖רֶךְ עֵ֥ץ הַֽחַיִּֽים:

”The tree of life“ was there in the garden to impart everlasting life…..’living forever’ in human flesh is not immortality…..all earthly creatures are mortal….all die a natural death…except humans. Humans were not created to die but to continue living, and that would have been the case if they had remained obedient. The only thing that would have brought death into their lives was disobedience concerning the TKGE, and being disqualified from eating of the “tree of life”.

So no human body was designed to “wear out”….the processes designed into human anatomy were to allow the body to heal itself and replace dead cells with new ones…..the process of cell renewal was to last forever.
Earth was not to be a training ground for heaven……it was designed to be man’s permanent home, as God described his assignment for them in Gen 1:27-28)….

“And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”

This is what humans were to do with the life God had given them….they were to represent him as caretakers of this carefully prepared planet, on into eternity.

The body that wears out is destructible; it is a natural body. The body that does not wear out is indestructible; it is a spiritual body.

A spiritual resurrection is promised only to “the chosen ones”….those “called to be saints”.

1 Cor 1:2 is addressed…..”to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all those everywhere who are calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours”….
Jesus is Lord of the “holy ones” (saints) “together with” others who also call him their “Lord Jesus Christ”…..”their Lord and ours”…..not all Christians are “saints”….these the Revelation says will rule with Christ in his kingdom…..and act as priests for redeemed mankind. (Rev 20:6; Rev 21:2-4) They will be resurrected “first”.
The redeemed ones will not be resurrected until the kingdom has established its rulership ver the whole earth….only then will Jesuscallthe dead from their graves to resume life with their loved ones….
This is what makes sense to me.

What comes first? The natural or the spiritual? The natural comes first.

All those chosen to rule with God’s appointed King, have been born as sinful humans, as descendants of Adam. (Rom 5:12) Who else knows the human condition better that those who have lived in it?
They will be “born again” as spirit beings, in order to live in a spirit realm.

Because they are chosen by God for this role, they will have been tested as to their faith throughout their Christian life….proven unto death.

This is what I believe the Bible teaches….what we lost in the beginning is returned in the end….(Isa 55:11)

 

[Aunty Jane]

And does not God know the time? Does God ever reveal the time for a particular thing to an individual? Are the works of God no longer manifested today?

Many things that are recognized as genuine miracles today, are no such thing……would God hide his real miracles among fake ones performed by the devil? The Bible says satan can mimic God’s miracles to an extent, in order to make people believe a lie. Should we not keep our wits about us?

Should we today limit God by our unbelief... or because we have decided, logically or not, God's limits?
Does anyone today limit God?

I could never limit the power of God…..I can however, discern by what the entirety of Scripture teaches about what he “will not” (rather than “cannot”) do. The miracles were for a time and a reason.

It’s not that I have “unbelief”, but what I have learned about God from what he has already done, (as recorded in Scripture) and the reason why he does what he does, and why we cannot expect miracles today, the likes of which were seen in the first century.

Ps 78:41Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

That is actually not an accurate translation of that word….it doesn’t say “limited” because “ âvâh, taw-vaw'; a primitive root”….means “to grieve”……to cause him pain, as most other translations confirm.

Matt 13:58 “And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

In context it says…..
”After coming into his home territory, he began to teach them in their synagogue, so that they were astounded and said: “Where did this man get this wisdom and these powerful works? 55 Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Where, then, did he get all of this?” 57 So they began to stumble because of him. But Jesus said to them: “A prophet is not without honor except in his home territory and in his own house.” 58 And he did not perform many powerful works there on account of their lack of faith.”

He was in his own home town for the second time, where people knew him as Jesus “the carpenter’s son”…they knew his family and saw nothing about this “son” to indicate his status as “the son of God”. So it wasn’t that he failed to offer them proof by performing miracles among them, he understood why familiarity was preventing their eyes from being opened……At least this time they didn’t try to kill him!

Matt 17:14-19……

”When they came toward the crowd, a man approached him, knelt down to him, and said: 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son, because he is an epileptic and is ill. He falls often into the fire and often into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not cure him.” 17 In reply Jesus said: “O faithless and twisted generation, how long must I continue with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring him here to me.” 18 Then Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him, and the boy was cured from that hour. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said: “Why could we not expel it?” 20 He said to them: “Because of your little faith. For truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard grain, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”

It was the lack of faith of the healer, not the one seeking a cure.
Failed modern day cures are never accepted as failure of the healer….it is always assumed that it was lack of faith on the part of the one seeking a cure. That was not the case in Jesus’ day.

Moving literal mountains was never part of Jesus’ miracles…..but mountain-like obstacles were certainly overcome by those who put faith in Jesus.

I don’t doubt God’s power at all…..I just know when and how he used it in connection with his earthly servants in Bible times…..what was it used for? What did it accomplish? What was the message?

 

[amadeus]

Many things that are recognized as genuine miracles today, are no such thing……would God hide his real miracles among fake ones performed by the devil? The Bible says satan can mimic God’s miracles to an extent, in order to make people believe a lie. Should we not keep our wits about us?

I could never limit the power of God…..I can however, discern by what the entirety of Scripture teaches about what he “will not” (rather than “cannot”) do. The miracles were for a time and a reason.

It’s not that I have “unbelief”, but what I have learned about God from what he has already done, (as recorded in Scripture) and the reason why he does what he does, and why we cannot expect miracles today, the likes of which were seen in the first century.



That is actually not an accurate translation of that word….it doesn’t say “limited” because “ âvâh, taw-vaw'; a primitive root”….means “to grieve”……to cause him pain, as most other translations confirm.



In context it says…..
”After coming into his home territory, he began to teach them in their synagogue, so that they were astounded and said: “Where did this man get this wisdom and these powerful works? 55 Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Where, then, did he get all of this?” 57 So they began to stumble because of him. But Jesus said to them: “A prophet is not without honor except in his home territory and in his own house.” 58 And he did not perform many powerful works there on account of their lack of faith.”

He was in his own home town for the second time, where people knew him as Jesus “the carpenter’s son”…they knew his family and saw nothing about this “son” to indicate his status as “the son of God”. So it wasn’t that he failed to offer them proof by performing miracles among them, he understood why familiarity was preventing their eyes from being opened……At least this time they didn’t try to kill him!


”When they came toward the crowd, a man approached him, knelt down to him, and said: 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son, because he is an epileptic and is ill. He falls often into the fire and often into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not cure him.” 17 In reply Jesus said: “O faithless and twisted generation, how long must I continue with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring him here to me.” 18 Then Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him, and the boy was cured from that hour. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said: “Why could we not expel it?” 20 He said to them: “Because of your little faith. For truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard grain, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”

It was the lack of faith of the healer, not the one seeking a cure.
Failed modern day cures are never accepted as failure of the healer….it is always assumed that it was lack of faith on the part of the one seeking a cure. That was not the case in Jesus’ day.

Moving literal mountains was never part of Jesus’ miracles…..but mountain-like obstacles were certainly overcome by those who put faith in Jesus.

I don’t doubt God’s power at all…..I just know when and how he used it in connection with his earthly servants in Bible times…..what was it used for? What did it accomplish? What was the message?

Thank you for your detailed response. I have not changed my mind as I have seen too many things and generally disagree with some of your conclusions. Have a good day.