Matthew 18 - Is Jesus Lying Or Are You Lying?

[Rockerduck]

Matthew 18. When the master forgave the 10,000 talents, that was like 10 million to us now days. Remember Jesus was emphasizing the massive debt that He forgave, just like us. This servant is saved now. What Jesus is now saying, is that His servant must forgive the same way. Jesus will now convict the heart and punish His people who do not reflect Jesus's values. If you are Christian and have not been chastised by Christ, check your salvation. At the Judgement seat the servant will lose his rewards, but not his salvation.

 

[GracePeace]

Matthew 18. When the master forgave the 10,000 talents, that was like 10 million to us now days. Remember Jesus was emphasizing the massive debt that He forgave, just like us. This servant is saved now. What Jesus is now saying, is that His servant must forgive the same way. Jesus will now convict the heart and punish His people who do not reflect Jesus's values. If you are Christian and have not been chastised by Christ, check your salvation. At the Judgement seat the servant will lose his rewards, but not his salvation.

No, I see another dynamic, not often considered, at work : just as we've all learned that God forgets sin, God is also able to forget righteousness (Ez 18:24).

The servant was a believer, and his faith was counted as righteousness apart from works, which is defined as being forgiven (Ro 4:6-8), thus, it must be that the rescinding of forgiveness is evidence he is no longer granted faith, but the measure of faith granted is removed (as with the wicked lazy servant in Mt 25), his righteousness of faith forgotten.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well, it seems like Jesus teaches something different about hell--people go there to pay for their sins, and its duration varies accordingly.

Do tell where the scripture says this..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, I see another dynamic, not often considered, at work : just as we've all learned that God forgets sin, God is also able to forget righteousness (Ez 18:24).

The servant was a believer, and his faith was counted as righteousness apart from works, which is defined as being forgiven (Ro 4:6-8), thus, it must be that the rescinding of forgiveness is evidence he is no longer granted faith, but the measure of faith granted is removed (as with the wicked lazy servant in Mt 25), his righteousness of faith forgotten.

Again, this is a huge assumption

Jesus paid for the sin of the whole world. Everyone’s sins are forgiven, except that one sin which condemns everyone to hell


The word of God must be in harmony, we can not take this passage and say it means this, when other passages contradict your interpretation of that one passage.

lets look to the word to let the word interpret itself. Not men, who have led us astray

 

[Rockerduck]

No, I see another dynamic, not often considered, at work : just as we've all learned that God forgets sin, God is also able to forget righteousness (Ez 18:24).

The servant was a believer, and his faith was counted as righteousness apart from works, which is defined as being forgiven (Ro 4:6-8), thus, it must be that the rescinding of forgiveness is evidence he is no longer granted faith, but the measure of faith granted is removed (as with the wicked lazy servant in Mt 25), his righteousness of faith forgotten.

Romans 4:6-8 - KJB
just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

 

[GracePeace]

Romans 4:6-8 - KJB
just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Yeah, that's the righteousness of faith--and when God forgets righteousness of faith, when the measure of faith is taken back, the person isn't a believer anymore, so their sins are not covered.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Jesus says that someone who is forgiven their sins through Christ's sacrifice can sin in such a way as to have that forgiveness rescinded, so that such a person ends up being thrown in hell.

For those who argue salvation can't be lost, or that being born of God can't be undone, tell me: are you the liar, or is Jesus the liar?

Matthew 18
23Because of this, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlements, a debtor was brought to him owing ten thousand talents.f 25Since the man was unable to pay, the master ordered that he be sold to pay his debt, along with his wife and children and everything he owned.

26Then the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Have patience with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’

27His master had compassion on him, forgave his debt, and released him.

28But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.g He grabbed him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe me!’

29So his fellow servant fell down and begged him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you back.’

30But he refused. Instead, he went and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay his debt.

31When his fellow servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed, and they went and recounted all of this to their master.

32Then the master summoned him and declared, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave all your debt because you begged me. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

35That is how My heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”

Well,really, what should first be realized is Yeshua provided a contextually harmonious bit of Good News.

While mans ego insures dual teachings intersect in all the old and new testaments.

For those who need to believe they can lose Salvation and to not do so they must worry,struggle,and work not to, so be it.

That too is the natural man's fault realized. The artificial, "I am". " I am in charge, I am the one who chose Christ. I am able to save myself if I work at it."

 

[MatthewG]

I don't see how that makes Jesus a liar. It's true - if we don't forgive, we suffer consequences.

I’ve heard that. A man who’s daughter or son was killed in a school shooting, he forgave the young person who did it and didn’t believe he was rotting in hell because of it… he believed in a loving God who could possibly have the man come from the outside of the kingdom to the inside of the kingdom.

 

[GracePeace]

Well,really, what should first be realized is Yeshua provided a contextually harmonious bit of Good News.

While mans ego insures dual teachings intersect in all the old and new testaments.

For those who need to believe they can lose Salvation and to not do so they must worry,struggle,and work not to, so be it.

That too is the natural man's fault realized. The artificial, "I am". " I am in charge, I am the one who chose Christ. I am able to save myself if I work at it."

Either I believe what the text says or I do not.

If that means I have to wrestle with the texts, then I wrestle with the texts, so that I learn how it's all true, and, even though I acknowledge the text says salvation can be lost, I learn to trust Christ instead of fearing, so be it--but I don't blow off texts.

 

[Rockerduck]

Yeah, that's the righteousness of faith--and when God forgets righteousness of faith, when the measure of faith is taken back, the person isn't a believer anymore, so their sins are not covered.

Through Jesus Christ you are forgiven, its done.

Colossians 2:11-15 - In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

 

[GracePeace]

Through Jesus Christ you are forgiven, its done.

Colossians 2:11-15 - In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

Yep, by grace through faith--and if the grace is taken away, the forgiveness is not there.

 

[GracePeace]

Well,really, what should first be realized is Yeshua provided a contextually harmonious bit of Good News.

While mans ego insures dual teachings intersect in all the old and new testaments.

For those who need to believe they can lose Salvation and to not do so they must worry,struggle,and work not to, so be it.

That too is the natural man's fault realized. The artificial, "I am". " I am in charge, I am the one who chose Christ. I am able to save myself if I work at it."

Either I believe what the text says or I do not.

If that means I have to wrestle with the texts, then I wrestle with the texts, so that I learn how it's all true, and, even though I acknowledge the text says salvation can be lost, I learn to trust Christ instead of fearing, so be it--but I don't blow off texts.

You guys say : Christ has done it, it can never be undone, trust Christ!
I say : Christ has done it, it can be undone, trust Christ!

 

[DJT_47]

You need to look at more than only one scripture to get the answer and/or to base your theological ideology on.

 

[GracePeace]

You need to look at more than only one scripture to get the answer and/or to base your theological ideology on.

Yeah, that's why I raise the Scriptures I raise--it seems they're never considered by the other side lol

 

[BlessedPeace]

Guy, the unforgiving servant had had all his debts forgiven.
Is that a Christian, a believer in Jesus, or no?
Do you know another way of being forgiven all your sins?

So far, we have another user who calls Jesus "liar".
Two users call Jesus "liar".

Anyone else?

Pray not. One under a different name using the same Satanic tactic is enough.

Have you noticed their tell yet?
They lol a lot when they attempt to insult Christians.

 

[GracePeace]

Pray not. One under a different name using the same Satanic tactic is enough.

Have you noticed their tell yet?
They lol a lot when they attempt to insult Christians.

Pray tell : Hast thou observed those without answers doth resort to all manner of poppycockery (donning fake English they don't use in public), empty accusation, etc, instead of simply and honestly addressing Scriptural challenges to their traditions?

 

[GracePeace]

Lol what is it with the "stuffy" fake English "defense"? Aren't you embarrassed to lean on such emptiness?

"I used a stuffy form of English, can't you see you're wrong and in trouble, and I'm correct?" LOL

What, did you wear a top hat and a monocle when you typed it? Would that add to the substance of your argument?

This has happened a few times already.

So weird and pathetic.

Just man up and face the Scripture.

 

[GracePeace]

PS - thank you for sharing the latter half. It reminds me that there’s someone in my past that I have to find it in my heart to forgive. It’s not going to be easy.

The issue is when we're not forgiving we're replacing God with the person we don't forgive--God is too great to allow anything else to take God's place. What is more real, greater, God or the person you don't forgive? What do you love more? What do you enjoy more? What do you seek to honor more? What do you want to talk about more?

 

[BlessedPeace]

A short time to learn a lot.

 

[Rockerduck]

A short time to learn a lot.

Did they speed up the people talking? It seemed fast.