Love

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,082
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
I don't understand what ish means.......
ah, well, um, neither does anyone else prolly lol. i would give you my take but it's better to get your own conception there. There are 4 or 5 diff words used to describe "man," and all are not "in Adam's image," etc. While imo "serpent seed" goes a bit too far, maybe, this is a rabbit hole nonetheless.

The amazing name Adam: meaning and etymology
The amazing name Cain: meaning and etymology

and even
Strong's Hebrew: 376. אּישׁ (ish) -- man
although the New Strong's is corrupted there i guess, i would seek better sources now
 
  • Like
Reactions: GodsGrace

Stranger

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2016
8,825
3,151
113
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Adam willingly goes into the bondage of death and separation from God, for Eve. Again, a man that had fellowship willingly gave up that fellowship for another. And from a noble act comes: Every sinner "in Adam" and not "in Christ" will be punished in an eternal burning hell.

You said Adam knew God would get him out. The biggest question I have is how did God get Adam(that first man that had fellowship with God) out yet those "in Adam" are not?

God provided that which was necessary to get Adam out and all those who were of Him, (God). God's provision is enough to redeem all those in Adam. But with that provision came the necessity of faith which engages that act of redemption. And that act of faith is only possible with God opening the eyes of His people who went down in the fall of Adam.

Therefore, in God's action of salvation, not only is Adam saved, but all those who are of God. Thus, not all in Adam are saved. But many in Adam are saved. The ones who are saved are those who are of God.

Understand this, not all those born in Adam are of God. Thus before you find fault with God, know that God knows those who are His. And it is those that are His that He saves.

Stranger
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,779
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Another thread on Abel's sacrifice and why it was acceptable to God and Cain's was rejected has raised some serious questions. Rather than bombard another posters thread and derail it; I'm choosing to start a separate one.

Clearly Eve sinned first by the temptation of Satan. Either Adam wasn't too bright or other motives drove Him to join in His wife's sin. Is it safe to suspect Adam joined His wife in her sin...out of love?

Two children are born. Jealousy causes one to murder the other. All over Abel's sacrifice being acceptable to God. Where Cain's was not. Why? Possibly because Abel s offering was also...love.

Two brothers:
One a scarlet thread.
One a breach, a rupture.
One, the one with the scarlet thread, heals the other.


Genesis 38:28-30
[28] And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first. [29] And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez. [30] And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah.

If Abel paid for his enemy (his own brother, his murderer) then it would be an act of love. What pleased God about Abels sacrifice was that it prophesied of the Son ...the greatest act of love demonstrated to all mankind. The guiltless Lamb slain for the guilty. An innocent (God Himself) for the sinner. A brother for a brother.

The only ones that have a problem with this are the ones that would love nothing more than a brother to pay what is owed.

There are only two:

You are either "in Adam."
Or you are "in Christ."
Did Christ come for Adam. Or will God punish and condemn the first man ever created...to hell? A man that walked and spoke to God and sacrificed life by joining His wife in death? A man made subject to vanity by God himself?


Romans 8:20-21
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, [21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.


I was once in Adam. I was once in Sin. My brother Jesus Christ , the scarlet thread, healed me. Abel's sacrifice was love.

Have you read any George MacDonald? ‘Lilith’ is a story that concerns this issue......it’s a bit victorian, but thought provoking. It is on Gutenburg.org.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,032
1,121
113
68
Thomaston Georgia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Eve was deceived. Adam was not. If Adam was not deceived why did he eat of the tree? (1 Tim. 2:14) He ate because he loved Eve and didn't want to lose her and didn't want her to be in a place where he couldn't reach her. So he went into a fallen state knowing God would get him out. And he knew if God got him out, it would also provide the way to get Eve out.

And that is exactly what Jesus Christ did for you.

Stranger

I disagree with this reasoning. Adam instead of eating the forbidden fruit when Eve offered he could have put the love of God first by calling upon God asking his wisdom instead of relying on his own.
 

Stranger

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2016
8,825
3,151
113
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I disagree with this reasoning. Adam instead of eating the forbidden fruit when Eve offered he could have put the love of God first by calling upon God asking his wisdom instead of relying on his own.

Of course He could have. And he knew that, as he was not deceived. Where would that leave Eve?

What part of my 'reasoning' do you not like?

Stranger
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

BARNEY BRIGHT

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,032
1,121
113
68
Thomaston Georgia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Of course He could have. And he knew that, as he was not deceived. Where would that leave Eve?

What part of my 'reasoning' do you not like?

Stranger

By the way you wrote in the text I replied to, it seemed to me that you were saying Adam reasoned that he was showing love to Eve when he ate the forbidden fruit, and it seemed to me that you were implying God was okay with that, but that's showing love for his wife before God and that not right. Showing love for God always comes first. So like I said Adam should have called upon God and relied on his wisdom rather than eaten the forbidden fruit.
 

Stranger

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2016
8,825
3,151
113
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
By the way you wrote in the text I replied to, it seemed to me that you were saying Adam reasoned that he was showing love to Eve when he ate the forbidden fruit, and it seemed to me that you were implying God was okay with that, but that's showing love for his wife before God and that not right. Showing love for God always comes first. So like I said Adam should have called upon God and relied on his wisdom rather than eaten the forbidden fruit.

Adam was not confused. Adam was not deceived. (1 Tim. 2:14) He didn't need to call upon God as He knew God's will in the matter already. You say Adam should have relied on God's wisdom. What do you think God would have told Him?

And you didn't answer my question. If Adam doesn't eat, where does that leave Eve?

Stranger
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

Ernest T. Bass

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
1,942
629
113
out in the woods
Another thread on Abel's sacrifice and why it was acceptable to God and Cain's was rejected has raised some serious questions.

Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Hebrews 11:4 "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh."


Since faith comes by hearing God's word and Abel offered his sacrifice 'by faith', then the logical implication is God's word had come to Cain and Abel on the acceptable type of sacrifice God wanted to be made. Abel by faith offered the acceptable sacrifice per God's word whereas Cain did not therefore his sacrifice was not 'by faith'. (Hebrews 11:6)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bbyrd009

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
10,560
8,412
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Hebrews 11:4 "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh."


Since faith comes by hearing God's word and Abel offered his sacrifice 'by faith', then the logical implication is God's word had come to Cain and Abel on the acceptable type of sacrifice God wanted to be made. Abel by faith offered the acceptable sacrifice per God's word whereas Cain did not therefore his sacrifice was not 'by faith'. (Hebrews 11:6)

Faith in what? “Which he (Abel) obtained witness that he was righteous and God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh” testifying of what gift(s)? Being dead yet speaketh of who?

The Son
Love
The mercy seat

“By faith” comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of The Lord; Abel heard the Word which was in the beginning because the word is the Lord(Jesus Christ) and Abel demonstrated “faith”. Same as Abraham demonstrated with Isaac.

Genesis 15:4
[4] And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,032
1,121
113
68
Thomaston Georgia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Adam was not confused. Adam was not deceived. (1 Tim. 2:14) He didn't need to call upon God as He knew God's will in the matter already. You say Adam should have relied on God's wisdom. What do you think God would have told Him?

And you didn't answer my question. If Adam doesn't eat, where does that leave Eve?

Stranger

Adam didn't have to be disobedient because Eve chose to be disobedient. Do you think that if someone jumps off a cliff we all should follow that person and jump off the cliff too? By you asking, "if Adam doesn't eat, where does that leave Eve?" Asking a question like that is reasoning that love for a human comes before the love for God, and I will not agree with that kind of reasoning. The scripture Tell us that if you love, mother or father or brother or sister or husband or wife more than God, then you are not worthy of him. I know that if Adam had called upon God rather than follow Eve in her disobedience, God would have handled it in a loving and just way.
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
10,560
8,412
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
By you asking, "if Adam doesn't eat, where does that leave Eve?" Asking a question like that is reasoning that love for a human comes before the love for God


Consider: the Son was innocent(blameless), yet He carried the weight of the punishment of your sins. Are you a part of His bride? In the Sons indescribable love for all that was lost...did the Son put you first or His father first? When the Son came to not condemn but to save, who did the Son put first?

Luke 22:41-42
[41] And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, [42] Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.


LOVE for another is putting the Father first.
 

Ernest T. Bass

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
1,942
629
113
out in the woods
Faith in what?

Since faith comes by hearing the word of God, then Able had faith in God's word. God instructed them on the type of sacrifice they were to offer else how did Abel know what kind of sacrifice to make or that he was even to make a sacrifice at all? Abel "by faith" followed God's word and Cain did not.
Abel doing as God said was why he was righteous - right doing.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,032
1,121
113
68
Thomaston Georgia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Consider: the Son was innocent(blameless), yet He carried the weight of the punishment of your sins. Are you a part of His bride? In the Sons indescribable love for all that was lost...did the Son put you first or His father first? When the Son came to not condemn but to save, who did the Son put first?

Luke 22:41-42
[41] And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, [42] Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.


LOVE for another is putting the Father first.
My

I certainly agree we should love one another, and yes we are showing love for God when we do so. However I believe more is required, such as in praising and glorifying God's holy name Jehovah, letting everyone know that he is the creator of all things and the source of all life, that his rulership is not only a loving and just rulership, but is the hope of mankind, that is why Jesus tells us to pray for that kingdom (God rulership). Jehovah has made his Only- Begotten Son Jesus Christ King of that Kingdom, this Kingdom is the rulership that will destroy the works of Satan. Testifying about these things is putting the love of God first in your life. Yes we love each other especially our spiritual brother and sister and also mankind, but that's because Jehovah God and his only- Begotten Son Jesus loved us first and we are following thier example.