Lol on your “Christian only” take

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Lifelong_sinner

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How can anyone ascertain fact by belief? This is the problem. Everyone has their belief and everyone's belief is right.

we walk by faith, not sight. But there are gazillions of facts concerning God that we can see everyday like the sun, the air we breathe, grass, mountains, trees, the moon. All signs of a Creator. The fact that you’re alive is proof of God. Mankind didnt evolve from apes or fish or any of that darwin nonsense.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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Why is the feeling of doubt our enemy? Should all our unpleasant emotional reactions be treated as a kind of sickness?

if you have doubt, i would ask, why do you have doubt about God? Im a calvinist… we believe that God chose who He was going to save before even creating the universe. The fact that you, an atheist, are on a christian forum, is proof that God is trying to move you to belief, and ultimately, repentance and faith.

as far as doubt goes, i always divide it into 2 categories. One is does a person believe God exists? And two, does a person believe they are saved? I truly believe that God exists, but i dont believe that i am saved. So my doubt is with assurance of my salvation, but there is no doubt for me as to whether God exists.
 

Ziggy

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How can anyone ascertain fact by belief? This is the problem. Everyone has their belief and everyone's belief is right.
You have to admit that this works for the scientific world as well. Not long ago, we were all assured that the covid vaccines were safe and effective.
This was that communities belief. However as time went on we found that they were less safe and less effective than they first believed.
Science isn't written in stone. It is ever changing and being modified. And not everyone has the same results. This is a proven fact.

When it comes to an an individuals belief or faith, then to that individual and what they witness within themselves becomes over time, a fact within themselves. If one's faith or belief is acted upon, then it will have an outward effect that is noticable to others.
Depending upon one's belief or faith, this will become the characteristics they portray and will be noticable by others.
These are the "fruits" which manifest themselves according to ones beliefs. They become self-evident facts.
These "facts" become written in the heart. As your heart changes, so do the facts. They are fluid by how and what you believe.

Everyone has their own individual belief system. Everyone has their own measure of faith. The stronger one's faith, the easier it is to see the manifestation of that fruit.
Some people have no belief system at all. They just live day to day as it comes. Not ever investing in what may come tomorrow.
So their character never really changes. As they say, the proof is in the pudding.

If someone believes there is a God that watches over them, loves them, cares for them. Then they want to reciprocate that love back. And the way one does that with God is to change ones character to emulate what they believe God's character is.
And through one's belief system or faith, they become what they put their faith in.

Different people have different beliefs of what God's character looks like. And their belief becomes a fact unto themselves and others who can see their beliefs manifest in their character.

Your own belief system, I.O.U, from what I can perceive from what you say through your words, is one of doubt, curiosity, sometimes I hear anger, sadness, aloneness.
This is how you manifest your character to me. This is how I see you.
But I don't know you. I can only see what you show me.
And all I can try to do is reassure you that you are not alone. And that curiosity is good. Only you can remove any doubt about your own beliefs.
Either you believe this way or that way. Whichever way you choose, it's up to you to settle in your own heart.
You get angry when people find a soft spot. You don't want to feel vulnerable. You've been hurt and maybe have had your faith trampled on by circumstances you had no control over. You've had losses and this sadness comes through your character.

I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you. All I'm saying is that this is the character or fruit that I see coming from you.
We look for something that makes sense when a certain set of facts don't fall the way we think they should. Or when we feel we've been decieved by what others say what we should feel or be.
If you believe that the life that your living is nothing more than an existence. That there is no purpose, it just is.
Then live your life in that existence in the most positive way that you are able.
I can't convince you that there is a God or not. You have to determine in your own mind if you are here for a reason and a purpose.
And then search out that reason. And be the best that you can be.

My belief and my faith is: We are never alone. And our creator, our maker, truly cares for and loves us and wants to be a part of our lives.
But that can only happen if one chooses to open that door and become vulnerable to their own measure of faith.
The stronger one's faith the less insecurity, the less doubt, more peace and contentment, which leads to more happiness and joy.

It's up to the individual to determine what kinds of fruit they manifest in themselves.
And then one can ascertain their own facts by their by their own beliefs.

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Judge yourself. Prove yourself. It's not up to anyone else to determine what you believe or how to believe.
You are your own testimony to your own truth.

Hugs
 

Ziggy

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Yes. Why did people do it? Does it work? Do hospitals use it as standard practice today. Does the Christian Church even use this method at large?
Because science changes. Knowledge increases. I would hope no one uses this method as a means to remove evil spirits.
But it is used in medicine to do certain surgeries on the brain.

Did you know that I believe that there is a fine line between faith and science?
I am not opposed to science in and of itself. I'm opposed to other people telling me I aught to believe science over faith.
And the same holds true the other way.
I would never tell a biologically proven man that he should have faith that he is a biological woman.

Science changes, faith changes. They are both fluid.
Science advances with knowledge. Faith grows through knowledge.
There are scientific facts and there are spiritual facts.
One is seen on the surface and other is known on the inside of one's heart and mind.

You can't remove an evil "spirit" with a physical tool.
And you can't inject faith through a needle.

Each has it's own place and set of truths.
Hugs
 

Ziggy

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Why is the feeling of doubt our enemy? Should all our unpleasant emotional reactions be treated as a kind of sickness?
I don't understand the question. Would you please rephrase this.
Thank You
 

bbyrd009

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Well, why would Esau feel like he would die if he did not get “red stew?”

but milk and meat should not be mixed i guess, these are not really questions for this forum imo

for that i guess you would need to find the ppl who have heard Paul say We are cock-sure, i tell you, and even wish that we were already dead, and partying with Jesus…
 
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Ziggy

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We are in the non-christian general discussions forum... so
If one had to choose an appropraite place to discuss things with non-christians,
this might be the best place to have one. IMO
At least we keep it civil. Some other forums I been to, would make you blush and throw up at the same time.

Well, why would Esau feel like he would die if he did not get “red stew?”
Gen 25:29 And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:
Gen 25:30 And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.

pottage... red stew also worded, red stuff.
What was Jacob cooking? lol

Lentils.
There are green and red Lentils.
I found this interesting:
History
Lentil was domesticated in the Fertile Crescent of the Near East and then spread to Europe, the Middle East, North Africa and the Indo-Gangetic plain. The primary center of diversity for the domestic Lens culinaris as well as its wild progenitor L. culinaris ssp. orientalis is considered to be the Middle East. The oldest known carbonized remains of lentil from Greece's Franchthi Cave are dated to 11,000 BC. In archaeobotanical excavations carbonized remains of lentil seeds have been recovered from widely dispersed places such as Tell Ramad in Syria (6250-5950 BC), Aceramic Beidha in Jordan, Hacilar in Turkey (5800-5000 BC), Tepe Sabz (Ita. Tepe Sabz) in Iran (5500-5000 BC) and Argissa-Magula Tessaly in Greece (6000-5000 BC), along other places.

Climate requirements
The conditions under which lentils are grown differ across different growing regions. In the temperate climates lentils are planted in the winter and spring under low temperatures and vegetative growth occurs in later spring and the summer. Rainfall during this time is not limited. In the subtropics, lentils are planted under relatively high temperatures at the end of the rainy season, and vegetative growth occurs on the residual soil moisture in the summer season. Rainfall during this time is limited. In West Asia and North Africa, some lentils are planted as a winter crop before snowfall. Plant growth occurs during the time of snow melting. Under such cultivation, seed yields are often much higher.

Gen 25:27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.
Gen 25:28 And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.

Gen 25:29 And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:
Gen 25:30 And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.
Gen 25:31 And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright.
Gen 25:32 And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me?
Gen 25:33 And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.
Gen 25:34 Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentiles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised his birthright.

Gen 25:28 And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.

Mal 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
Mal 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Mal 1:4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

I can hear Cain and Abel fighting in the field and I can hear Satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness.

Esau was aftward and hungered. He'd been out hunting in the field for venison, the food which his father loved.
We don't know how long Esau had been out in the field hunting. It could of been days. They didn't have hunting rifles back then, and the fields are wide open. If Jacob and Easu were in the region where crops begin to grow, then that could have made it early spring.
Early spring is also when does give birth. So perhaps Esau was being particular what he shot at, not wanting to kill a a mom and it's bambi.

https://worlddeer.org › when-do-deer-give-birth
Most deer species give birth in the spring as the entire mating and reproductive cycle is timed to match the weather and seasonal changes. During late summer and early fall bucks finish growing their antlers and compete for breeding rights, and the does begin their estrus as days get shorter and cooler.

All I'm saying is, there are a lot of things ro consider before one places judgment on another.
And God knowing all things had already judged Esau guilty.
Esau was cursed or "marked" by God, like Cain was "marked" as guilty.

But which one had the greater sin....
The one who sold his birthright or the one who cheated him out of it?
Twice.

I believe Jacob loved his brother. But certain influences or prophecies had to be fulfilled over the course of time.
And though some of us can't see this yet, God sent his son into the world to bear the curse for all.

1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Gen 33:9 And Esau said, I have enough, my brother; keep that thou hast unto thyself.
Gen 33:10 And Jacob said, Nay, I pray thee, if now I have found grace in thy sight, then receive my present at my hand: for therefore I have seen thy face, as though I had seen the face of God, and thou wast pleased with me.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Jhn 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Mat 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

pottage...red stew.. red .. edom.. Adam.. man.

Hugs
 

2bme

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if you have doubt, i would ask, why do you have doubt about God? Im a calvinist… we believe that God chose who He was going to save before even creating the universe. The fact that you, an atheist, are on a christian forum, is proof that God is trying to move you to belief, and ultimately, repentance and faith.

as far as doubt goes, i always divide it into 2 categories. One is does a person believe God exists? And two, does a person believe they are saved? I truly believe that God exists, but i dont believe that i am saved. So my doubt is with assurance of my salvation, but there is no doubt for me as to whether God exists.
I don't have doubt in a God who has not provided me with any evidence to doubt it. But I do doubt people who believe they have evidence about God that I should not doubt.
 

2bme

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When He speaks, you believe He's telling the truth. It's one thing to know stuff about God, stuff that's likely to be completely wrong. It's an entirely different matter to know God personally, and to be known by Him.
I think if God spoke to me in a voice I could hear and understand, I would not need to believe that I am hearing him.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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I don't have doubt in a God who has not provided me with any evidence to doubt it. But I do doubt people who believe they have evidence about God that I should not doubt.

you have all the same exact evidence that i do. Yet, you dont believe in God, and i do. So whats the difference?? Simple, you choose not to believe because you dont like what God has to say.
 

2bme

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you have all the same exact evidence that i do. Yet, you dont believe in God, and i do. So whats the difference?? Simple, you choose not to believe because you dont like what God has to say.
There's only one word for you. Indemnity.
 

Brakelite

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I think if God spoke to me in a voice I could hear and understand, I would not need to believe that I am hearing him.
The scriptures are His word to man. If you have ears to hear, they will speak to you.
You best friend or mum may speak to you, but you still have to exercise faith to believe they are telling you the truth. That's the thing about the Bible. We could read it all day long, memorize it chapter by chapter, but if we don't believe what it says, we are suggesting God to be a liar.
 

Ziggy

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and yet:

Job 14:7 For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
:D
Hugs
 

Titus

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you have all the same exact evidence that i do. Yet, you dont believe in God, and i do. So whats the difference?? Simple, you choose not to believe because you dont like what God has to say.

Now, Lifelong sinner!!! You said something that violates the teaching of calvinism to I.O.U.

You just told I.O.U. he can CHOOSE to BELIEVE in God!! Really?

Lifelong sinner, how do you know Gods sovereign will for I.O.U.?

God may have according to calvinist doctrine, willed that I.O.U. be an atheist.
(I don't believe this, I'm not a calvinist)

But you, Lifelong sinner are telling him he can choose what he wants to believe.
Have you forgotten John Calvin teaches God causes His creation to do His will?
Calvin's god determines what sin He wants us to commit for His good pleasure.

If a man never believes in God, God has willed that man to be a depraved atheist to burn in hell.No one stays an unbeliever by his own choice! Calvinism teaches God has complete power, control over who goes to hell and who is saved. It is not I.O.U.'s choice in calvinism but Gods.
If the calvinist god has predestined I.O.U. to be an atheist, reprobate. Then according to your calvinism I.O.U. cannot do a thing about it! He cannot choose as you say he can.
If you're going to claim you are a calvinist, you need to always be a calvinist.
Or better yet, abandon this false doctrine of calvinism and learn that God desires ALL men to come to repentance and believe in Him, Acts 3:19 ; Acts 17:30 ; Mark 16:15-16.







 
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Lifelong_sinner

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Now, Lifelong sinner!!! You said something that violates the teaching of calvinism to I.O.U.

You just told I.O.U. he can CHOOSE to BELIEVE in God!! Really?

Lifelong sinner, how do you know Gods sovereign will for I.O.U.?

God may have according to calvinist doctrine, willed that I.O.U. be an atheist.
(I don't believe this, I'm not a calvinist)

But you, Lifelong sinner are telling him he can choose what he wants to believe.
Have you forgotten John Calvin teaches God causes His creation to do His will?
Calvin's god determines what sin He wants us to commit for His good pleasure.

If a man never believes in God, God has willed that man to be a depraved atheist to burn in hell.No one stays an unbeliever by his own choice! Calvinism teaches God has complete power, control over who goes to hell and who is saved. It is not I.O.U.'s choice in calvinism but Gods.
If the calvinist god has predestined I.O.U. to be an atheist, reprobate. Then according to your calvinism I.O.U. cannot do a thing about it! He cannot choose as you say he can.
If you're going to claim you are a calvinist, you need to always be a calvinist.
Or better yet, abandon this false doctrine of calvinism and learn that God desires ALL men to come to repentance and believe in Him, Acts 3:19 ; Acts 17:30 ; Mark 16:15-16.







Wow. You’re still on here, hating on calvinism??
Gotta say, i dont miss these talks.

i have told IOU that i am indeed a calvinist, and he’s not ready for that yet. I gotta get him to believe in God first, then bring him up in calvinism. :cool:

this forum could use a lot more calvinists.
 

Titus

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Wow. You’re still on here, hating on calvinism??
Gotta say, i dont miss these talks.

i have told IOU that i am indeed a calvinist, and he’s not ready for that yet. I gotta get him to believe in God first, then bring him up in calvinism. :cool:

this forum could use a lot more calvinists.
I see you are going to ignore your anti-calvinist claim that I.O.U can choose to be a believer. At the same time promoting to everyone that you are a believer in John Calvin's doctrine.

I call calvinist like you convenient calvinist's.
Only holding to John Calvin's doctrine when it is convenient for whatever purpose at the time.
Then going against calvinism when it is not, like for example, babies burning in hell due to total depravity, telling atheists they should choose to believe in God and conveniently not telling the atheist that your calvinism teaches God may want them to be atheist's and to burn in hell for all eternity.
Evangelizing to atheists, that clearly contradicts the calvinist doctrine that only God Himself will choose to regenerate each individual based on NOTHING YOU SAY TO THEM OR WHAT THEY THINK, BELIEVE, OR DO. Calvinism teaches you can do absolutely nothing to be chosen by God to be saved. Nor can you do anything to or for an atheist to get him saved. If you could that would go against Gods sovereignty as defined by calvinism.

God hates false teaching but not the soul of the false teacher,
Galatians 1:6-8
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
Which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
But even if we or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Your faith in calvinism is the reason why you are not saved.
God has already chosen to save you, Lifelong sinner.
Stop waiting on God to save you.
God is waiting on you, to give your life to Him, by obeying His gospel.

A flood came.
A man was trapped on the roof of his house as the waters rose.
He cried out to God to save Him.
He never heard anything directly from God.
But there was helicopters carrying folks out of the flood to safety.
He thought a moment about the helicopter.
He was a calvinist, so he reasoned if it was Gods will he would leave it up to God to act directly on him.
If he perished in the flood, he figured it was Gods will.
He drowned in the flood.
He stood before God on judgment day.
He thought God chose not to save him.
God spoke to him, and He said,
Why did you not allow the helicopter I sent to save you, rescue you from the flood?
The man was surprised that God tried to save him.
But because of his error of belief in calvinism he thought he could do nothing for himself.
He found out to late God was trying to save him all along.

Just as God is using me to try and reach you.
You can be saved.
God has left that choice up to you, friend.
If you continue to wait on God.
You will end up in judgement shocked that God sent men like myself to show you the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
Stop believing this evil doctrine that God does not love you and desire for you to be saved!
Now is your opportunity to be saved!

2Corinthians 6:2
For He says:
"In an acceptable time I have heard you,
And in the day of salvation I have helped you.
Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, NOW IS THE DAY OF SALVATION

Love you friend,
I pray for you to be delieved from the very doctrines that are keeping you lost.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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I see you are going to ignore your anti-calvinist claim that I.O.U can choose to be a believer. At the same time promoting to everyone that you are a believer in John Calvin's doctrine.

I call calvinist like you convenient calvinist's.
Only holding to John Calvin's doctrine when it is convenient for whatever purpose at the time.
Then going against calvinism when it is not, like for example, babies burning in hell due to total depravity, telling atheists they should choose to believe in God and conveniently not telling the atheist that your calvinism teaches God may want them to be atheist's and to burn in hell for all eternity.
Evangelizing to atheists, that clearly contradicts the calvinist doctrine that only God Himself will choose to regenerate each individual based on NOTHING YOU SAY TO THEM OR WHAT THEY THINK, BELIEVE, OR DO. Calvinism teaches you can do absolutely nothing to be chosen by God to be saved. Nor can you do anything to or for an atheist to get him saved. If you could that would go against Gods sovereignty as defined by calvinism.

God hates false teaching but not the soul of the false teacher,
Galatians 1:6-8
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
Which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
But even if we or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Your faith in calvinism is the reason why you are not saved.
God has already chosen to save you, Lifelong sinner.
Stop waiting on God to save you.
God is waiting on you, to give your life to Him, by obeying His gospel.

A flood came.
A man was trapped on the roof of his house as the waters rose.
He cried out to God to save Him.
He never heard anything directly from God.
But there was helicopters carrying folks out of the flood to safety.
He thought a moment about the helicopter.
He was a calvinist, so he reasoned if it was Gods will he would leave it up to God to act directly on him.
If he perished in the flood, he figured it was Gods will.
He drowned in the flood.
He stood before God on judgment day.
He thought God chose not to save him.
God spoke to him, and He said,
Why did you not allow the helicopter I sent to save you, rescue you from the flood?
The man was surprised that God tried to save him.
But because of his error of belief in calvinism he thought he could do nothing for himself.
He found out to late God was trying to save him all along.

Just as God is using me to try and reach you.
You can be saved.
God has left that choice up to you, friend.
If you continue to wait on God.
You will end up in judgement shocked that God sent men like myself to show you the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
Stop believing this evil doctrine that God does not love you and desire for you to be saved!
Now is your opportunity to be saved!

2Corinthians 6:2
For He says:
"In an acceptable time I have heard you,
And in the day of salvation I have helped you.
Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, NOW IS THE DAY OF SALVATION

Love you friend,
I pray for you to be delieved from the very doctrines that are keeping you lost.

IOU doesnt know about calvinism, chances are he’s never even heard of it. Once IOU is ready to hear the TRUTH about salvation, then i will teach him everything i know about that great man, john calvin.

i just wish i could open your eyes up to the truth of calvinism. But i will say, since i no longer post in the other sections, it has been BLISS not having to deal with unitarians and catholics and arminians. When i wanna talk theology, i just stick with my puritan and reformed forums.

I will keep you in my prayers as well that your eyes will open and ears will hopefully hear the truth of calvinist doctrine.
 

Marymog

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Thanks Angelina!
I call myself agnostic because as a human I can’t truly say I “know” there is a God. I want to believe and get the whole idea of faith, yet I still only have hope, but not knowledge.
Hi,

You say that you have hope there is a God but you don't have knowledge that there is a God. What would it take to convince you, or give you the knowledge, that there is a God? A miraculous event that can't be explained by science? Talk to Him in the way Moses did?

Fill in the blank: I would believe there is a God if_______________.

Mary