Limited atonement !

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Runningman

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See Post 204, it explains my view against yours

Thank you. In John 17:9, when Jesus said "I ask on their behalf. I do not ask on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those You have given Me; for they are Yours." He was speaking in the perfect tense about those people. That would mean that Jesus was speaking specifically about those God had already given him up until the time he spoke those words. In other words, only Jesus' original disciples were the elect.

I understand your interpretation better now, I think. Your interpretation would require that Christianity only be for whoever Jesus was directly given by God about 2,000 years ago. The elect are long gone and Christianity is not relevant for anyone in the present day, despite their continued perpetuation of the gospel, if what you're saying is true.

I thought of something to add on to this. I was reading a bit more of John 17. Jesus actually switched gears and included whoever else believes in him through their message.

John 17
20I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
 
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Marvelloustime

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Atonement applies only TO THOSE WHO BELEIVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
but readers beware , i SAID JESUS THE CHRIST
not some other jesus that loves to twist and omit his words . cause that jesus cannot save squat .
SO the key is
IF a man cliams to BELIEVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST
then see if he BELIEVES WHAT HE SAYS , THE TRUTH . cause if not , yeah they believing in another jesus all right .
@amigo de christo
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Ronald Nolette

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Lol, Trust me, I would never want you to do any scriptural work for me, you reject the Gospel
Well we know you do not know a brother from a tree! I have been preaching the gospel of Jesus for 50 years! You on the other hand lack Christian love and charity and any gift for being a teaching saint.

Bye have the last word if you wish.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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See Post 204, it explains my view against yours

Wow! You will direct one person to your quotes but toss me aside like som much refuse?

Says alot about you!
 
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Dan Clarkston

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Thats the elect, sheep

Your eisegesis (preconceived calviniust error) has failed you as you read in to scripture things it does not say.

"Jesus by the grace of God tasting death for every man" actually mean EVERY man, not just tares known as calvinists who claim they are the only ones that are saved.

Simply put, the Lord has made a way for all to be saved IF... they repent and get born again.

Calvinist tares think Jesus LIED in John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Calvinist tares also this 2 Peter 3:9 is a lie as well...

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.

It's sad to see people being deceived by the calvinist cult which is one of satan's favorite deception right up their with islam.

Some folks (such as calvinists) give God's Word
the Thomas Jefferson treatment

Thomas Jefferson cut out verses he did not like from
the Bible including verses about Jesus’ miracles and
the resurrection of Jesus because Thomas Jefferson was
a servant of the devil.
 
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brightfame52

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Thank you. In John 17:9, when Jesus said "I ask on their behalf. I do not ask on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those You have given Me; for they are Yours." He was speaking in the perfect tense about those people. That would mean that Jesus was speaking specifically about those God had already given him up until the time he spoke those words. In other words, only Jesus' original disciples were the elect.

I understand your interpretation better now, I think. Your interpretation would require that Christianity only be for whoever Jesus was directly given by God about 2,000 years ago. The elect are long gone and Christianity is not relevant for anyone in the present day, despite their continued perpetuation of the gospel, if what you're saying is true.

I thought of something to add on to this. I was reading a bit more of John 17. Jesus actually switched gears and included whoever else believes in him through their message.

John 17
20I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
Jesus didn't pray for the world in General, because He wasn't its High Priest, but only for His Elect, so He didn't die for the world He didn't pray for
 

brightfame52

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Well we know you do not know a brother from a tree! I have been preaching the gospel of Jesus for 50 years! You on the other hand lack Christian love and charity and any gift for being a teaching saint.

Bye have the last word if you wish.
News flash, you been preaching a false gospel for 50 yrs
 

brightfame52

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Your eisegesis (preconceived calviniust error) has failed you as you read in to scripture things it does not say.

"Jesus by the grace of God tasting death for every man" actually mean EVERY man, not just tares known as calvinists who claim they are the only ones that are saved.

Simply put, the Lord has made a way for all to be saved IF... they repent and get born again.

Calvinist tares think Jesus LIED in John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Calvinist tares also this 2 Peter 3:9 is a lie as well...

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.

It's sad to see people being deceived by the calvinist cult which is one of satan's favorite deception right up their with islam.

Some folks (such as calvinists) give God's Word
the Thomas Jefferson treatment

Thomas Jefferson cut out verses he did not like from
the Bible including verses about Jesus’ miracles and
the resurrection of Jesus because Thomas Jefferson was
a servant of the devil.
Still the elect sheep
 

Rightglory

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This aint about hell
Again, back to your response to Heb 2:9. You cannot believe in hell.
Here is why.
According to you Christ ONLY died for the elect. If all others are still dead, how could there be a hell. Actually according to scripture there is no heaven either.
You gloss over too much. I Cor 15:12-22. If the dead are not risen, then Christ is not risen. If Christ is not risen then (our -Paul) preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
He repeats it more strongly in vs18 if Christ is not risen, then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

Your theology contradicts unequivocally scripture. Therefore from your premise that ONLY the elect will be raised, then you cannot possibly believe in a hell, It does not exist in your theology. Worse for you, your faith is all in vain, You are no better off than those you call non-elect or reprobates.

Thank God, scripture does not teach what you teach. vs 21-22 is the summation regarding all the dead.
By man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
There is no text, context, in all of scripture that changes that fact. The Incarnation is an historical hallmark for Christianity over all other religions and you do not hold to the Incarnation.
I would restudy your position.
 

amigo de christo

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Wow! You will direct one person to your quotes but toss me aside like som much refuse?

Says alot about you!
Most folks dont even dialgoue one bit with me .
But it wont slow me down one bit my friend . I do as i do for the love of the peoples .
Time for the peoples to correct all sin and error within the church .
 

brightfame52

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Again, back to your response to Heb 2:9. You cannot believe in hell.
Here is why.
According to you Christ ONLY died for the elect. If all others are still dead, how could there be a hell. Actually according to scripture there is no heaven either.
You gloss over too much. I Cor 15:12-22. If the dead are not risen, then Christ is not risen. If Christ is not risen then (our -Paul) preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
He repeats it more strongly in vs18 if Christ is not risen, then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

Your theology contradicts unequivocally scripture. Therefore from your premise that ONLY the elect will be raised, then you cannot possibly believe in a hell, It does not exist in your theology. Worse for you, your faith is all in vain, You are no better off than those you call non-elect or reprobates.

Thank God, scripture does not teach what you teach. vs 21-22 is the summation regarding all the dead.
By man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
There is no text, context, in all of scripture that changes that fact. The Incarnation is an historical hallmark for Christianity over all other religions and you do not hold to the Incarnation.
I would restudy your position.
Rabbit trail, this aint about hell. And Christ isn't the kinsman redeemer to the serpent seed. Does this sound like Jesus loved these folk and was about to taste death for them Matt 23:32-33

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
 

brightfame52

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As already shown, the Intercessory work of Christ the High Priest is restricted to the elect Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us[The elect].

Jn 17:9


9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

Jesus made it a point to differentiate the elect from the non‑elect in His prayers. He specifically says that He does not ask on behalf of the world. It is unlikely that He would refuse to pray for those for whom He was about to die.
 

Runningman

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Jesus didn't pray for the world in General, because He wasn't its High Priest, but only for His Elect, so He didn't die for the world He didn't pray for
In assuming the limited atonement mindset, I would be forced to conclude no one has been elected for the past ~2,000 years if John 17:9 is a stand-alone verse to describe who the elect are. There would just be a handful of elect. So what are we doing here. Can anyone be saved today in your belief?
 

brightfame52

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Romans 8 Teaches Particular Redemption

Romans 8 is also contrary to universal atonement. Verses 28-30 speak of a people whom God foreknew, predestinated, called according to His purpose, justified, glorified and conformed to the image of His Son. The apostle draws the following conclusion: “What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?” (31). “Then” or “therefore” indicates that this is a logical inference based on his preceding statements, here called “these things.” The “us” can only be those predestinated (or elected) and called according to God’s eternal purpose (28-30). Paul’s argument is this: If God is “for us” (31) in predestination, calling, justification and glorification (29-30), then “who can be against us?” (31). In other words, if God in His eternal decree has chosen us to everlasting bliss, called us out of darkness into His marvellous light, acquitted us of all our sins and reckoned us righteous with the very righteousness of Christ Himself, and glorified us in conforming us to the image of His Son, then “who can be against us?” (31).

The apostle reinforces this already compelling argument with another: “He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?” (32). Who are the “us” referred to twice here for whom God sent the Saviour to die? Again, they are those predestinated and called according to God’s eternal purpose (28-30). The only conclusion is that Christ died for the elect.

If it is objected that the Lord Jesus also died for the non-elect, then we reply that the passage gives absolutely no hint of this. In fact, this would make the passage teach that God sent His Son to die for those who are not predestinated and not called, justified, glorified or conformed to Christ. Moreover, if it is argued that the Saviour died for the reprobate, this would make the passage teach that the reprobate will receive all the blessings of His cross, for verse 32 teaches that God freely gives “all things” to those for whom Christ died. The “all things” include freedom from the law of sin and death (2), life and peace (6), adoption as God’s sons (14), the witness of the Spirit (16), an eternal inheritance (17), the redemption of the body at the resurrection of the just (23), the ability to pray in the Spirit (26), etc. Furthermore, the “all things” would also include the blessings of justification, calling, glorification and conformity to Christ according to God’s eternal predestination (28-30)! To read universal atonement into Romans 8:32 would mean that God freely gives the blessings of calling, justification and glorification to the reprobate, those whom He never calls, justifies or glorifies. This verse teaches an absolutely inseparable connection between those for whom Christ died and all these spiritual blessings. Some do not receive these blessings; therefore, the Saviour did not die for them.

Next Romans 8 declares that no charge (33) and no condemnation (34) can be laid against those who are justified (33), those for whom Christ died (34). But many charges are righteously made by the God of heaven against the reprobate wicked so that they are condemned! This is the case because they are not justified (33), for Jesus did not die for them and does not intercede for them (34).

For Whom Did Christ Die? – CPRC 3
 

brightfame52

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In assuming the limited atonement mindset, I would be forced to conclude no one has been elected for the past ~2,000 years if John 17:9 is a stand-alone verse to describe who the elect are. There would just be a handful of elect. So what are we doing here. Can anyone be saved today in your belief?
You dont pay attention to the context, Jesus prayer did include future believers Jn 17:20

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

There are others who have been predestined to believe in Him through the word of the Apostles, He also prayed for them, not yet born,yet He doesnt pray for the world in General
 

amigo de christo

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Well we know you do not know a brother from a tree! I have been preaching the gospel of Jesus for 50 years! You on the other hand lack Christian love and charity and any gift for being a teaching saint.

Bye have the last word if you wish.
A general reminder to all .
Many within christendom no longer truly even support the one true gospel anymore .
As they not only follow a jesus who holds up hundred dollah bills , and holds even rainbows ,
and honors scorcery , it even kisses korans and budda statues for world peace . Things just aint looking too good at all
in these very last hours upon earth .
 
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Rightglory

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Rabbit trail, this aint about hell. And Christ isn't the kinsman redeemer to the serpent seed. Does this sound like Jesus loved these folk and was about to taste death for them Matt 23:32-33

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
It proves He died for them. Your missing the connection I pointed out to you. Vs 33 even uses the word "hell" from Jesus's own mouth. He could not have spoken about condemnation or hell, unless He died for them. They are rejecting his call to repent and believe. He does not say that He is condemning them because He did not predestinate them.
I completely understand your predicament. You cannot acknowledge the obvious Truth of scripture, even though it is hitting you on the head. It would destroy your personal theology, I'd say that is pride that prevents you to acknowledge the Truth of scripture.
God loves all of mankind. He loves His creation. God is love. I know that is hard for you to contemplate.