Limited atonement is a false gospel

[Rockerduck]

And yet any Gentile who was willing could join with Israel by entering the old covenant and have the atonement applied to them.

Propitiation for the sins of the world means as opposed to Israel only....it was and is available to the Gentile nations of the world, whosoever was and is willing of them.

The bible says we are "elect according to the foreknowledge of God". God foreknew who would receive Christ from before we were created. It's not an easy thing to understand His sovereignty, and how much of His rule and reign is based on His foreknowledge. He gives both man and devil a lot of leeway to exercise their will and yet He remains sovereign over it all.

That is the description of limited atonement.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Prove my posts are unscriptural....I’m waiting?

You have deliberately discounted and refused to believe scripture for months all over this forum.

For one ...these scriptures that most of us know probably by heart, verify and support that Jesus was sent from Heaven so that WHOSEVER would believe would be saved ...and just in case that isn't clear enough, scripture says Jesus was sent because God so loved THE WORLD ...and that (according to verse 17) the whole world would have access to the salvation that comes by faith in Jesus Christ. And moreover, @Rita, verse 17 specifically states that Jesus was not sent into the world to condemn the world .... don't you see that???? You are believing a LIE ...as your false gospel says God condemns most people to hell.

And there are sooooo many more scriptures that bear this out and you don't have to do any mental (carnal) gymnastics to see what they plainly state.

John 3:14-21
[14]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
[15]That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[16]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17]For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[19]And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[20]For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
[21]But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[TLHKAJ]

That is the description of limited atonement.

You do not understand God's foreknowledge.

 

[Ritajanice]

You have deliberately discounted and refused to believe scripture for months all over this forum.

I have done no such thing...you have continually denied that the Spirit Of God is Alive and Active..you have also denied how the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children.

You have yet to challenge me on my posts...Spirit gives birth to spirit is a Living supernatural divine spiritual birth...which for some reason you have no understanding of..who is Gods Living testimony, I’ve asked you that question countless times?

For one ...these scriptures that most of us know probably by heart, verify and support that Jesus was sent from Heaven so that WHOSEVER would believe would be saved

Jesus said that we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God......we are not saved..not until our spirit is Born Again...Spirit gives birth to spirit..

Your understanding of scripture is not superior to other members who believe differently to you.

Brightfame has posted what he believes and supported it with scripture...if members don’t agree with your belief, then they are either carnal or a false prophet...that’s how we know them by their fruit..

...and just in case that isn't clear enough, scripture says Jesus was sent because God so loved THE WORLD ...and that (according to verse 17) the whole world would have access to the salvation that comes by faith in Jesus Christ. And moreover, @Rita, verse 17 specifically states that Jesus was not sent into the world to condemn the world .... don't you see that???? You are believing a LIE ...as your false gospel says God condemns most people to hell.

My belief according to “ you” is condemning people to hell...I don’t even understand limited atonement.

And there are sooooo many more scriptures that bear this out and you don't have to do any mental (carnal) gymnastics to see what they plainly state.

John 3:14-21
[14]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
[15]That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[16]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17]For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[19]And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[20]For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
[21]But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Romans 8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Lizbeth]

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate

 

[Ritajanice]

It means exactly what it says @Lizbeth ?..you added your own words to Gods word, to make it say what you wanted it to say.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

 

[Rockerduck]

You do not understand God's foreknowledge.

I understand it very well, I've had my conversation with Jesus. I know full well God's foreknowledge and plan. My name is in the Lambs Book of Life. The Holy Spirit told me specifically God knew me from the foundation of the world.

 

[Lizbeth]

That is the description of limited atonement.

From what I've heard of limited atonement, it is a fatalistic view that denies man the exercise of his will in the matter of salvation. Is that a wrong view of it?

 

[Ritajanice]

You do not understand God's foreknowledge.

According to “ you” he doesn’t..that doesn’t make what you say Gods truth..which I’m sure he knows.

 

[Ritajanice]

I understand it very well, I've had my conversation with Jesus. I know full well God's foreknowledge and plan. My name is in the Lambs Book of Life. The Holy Spirit told me specifically God knew me from the foundation of the world.

Me too...the Spirit testified with my spirit that I am Gods child, as he was indwelling me....” mind blowing “ it was...I too am in the Lambs book of life...I have the Living witness who indwells my spirit.Gods Living testimony.....Spirit gives birth to spirit ...Praise God...

Of course to some we are talking gnostic Mumbo jumbo..LOL..all Glory goes to the Living Spirit Of God...

 

[Rockerduck]

From what I've heard of limited atonement, it is a fatalistic view that denies man the exercise of his will in the matter of salvation. Is that a wrong view of it?

Nope, everyone is called, most ignore and actually hate. I prayed for the salvation of family members, and God showed me they run from his calling. This also shows God foreknew their rejection of Him. Many are called and few are chosen.

 

[Rockerduck]

Me too...the Spirit testified with my spirit that I am Gods child, as he was indwelling me....” mind blowing “ it was...I too am in the Lambs book of life...I have the Living witness who indwells my spirit.Gods Living testimony.....Spirit gives birth to spirit ...Praise God...

Of course to some we are talking gnostic Mumbo jumbo..LOL..all Glory goes to the Living Spirit Of God...

I find it hard to understand that others do not have the excited, "mind blowing", Power of the Holy Spirit and knowledge of their eternal security in Christ. I like this hymn. "Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine, oh what a foretaste of Glory divine", heir of salvation, purchase of God, Born of His Spirit, washed in His Blood.

 

[Ritajanice]

Many are called and few are chosen.

I was chosen...so I have no understanding of those who reject the call , Brother..

Do you think that not everyone receives supernatural faith..some don’t even know what supernatural faith is..... some are called for a specific purpose?...plus there are different levels of faith that God gifts us...

I was Born Again..as in Spirit gives birth to spirit...and the Living Spirit who indwells me...does nothing but glorify the Living Power Of God...through me!...I’m on fire for God..does that make sense?

My spirit is full of excitement...yet, at times...I do wonder if God is in my situation...which I know is the enemy lying to me, or trying to get me to go against God...
Because my spirit is Born Again....how can we not be on fire for the Living God...when the Spirit indwells us....?

 

[Ritajanice]

@Rockerduck .i don’t even fully understand limited atonement..yet, I’m being accused of sending people to hell.being carnal and a false prophet.....I’ve even posted on this thread that I don’t understand limited atonement..

I posted commentaries of other believers who believed in limited atonement...it can’t be proven imo,either way...

 

[Lizbeth]

Nope, everyone is called, most ignore and actually hate. I prayed for the salvation of family members, and God showed me they run from his calling. This also shows God foreknew their rejection of Him. Many are called and few are chosen.

Amen, He did foreknow their rejection of Him.

Ok, if you agree with what I'm saying, doesn't this make the term "limited atonement" inaccurate and misleading.....since it only reflects one side of the coin, so to speak.

 

[Ritajanice]

Here is another difference of opinion on what foreknowledge means.

The word "foreknew" means that God, in some way or sense, knew each Christian before we knew Him. Based on this sense in which He "foreknew" us, God predestined—determined, appointed, or ordained in advance—those who are saved to be conformed to the image of Jesus.

Would you say @Rockerduck that we become Born Again at Gods Appointed hour?

Do you believe that we die at Gods appointed time, day and place?
Short commentary.

What does the Bible say about God's appointed time?
1*There is an appointed time for everything,and a time for every affair under the heavens. 2A time to give birth, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to uproot the plant

 

[Behold]

From what I've heard of limited atonement, it is a fatalistic view that denies man the exercise of his will in the matter of salvation. Is that a wrong view of it?

""""Limited atonement.""""

That is to limit the atonement.

The Atonement is the "Blood Atonement" that is The New Covenant, that is The Cross of Christ.

So, to LIMIT The Atonement.... means that God's Grace is not given for all......

Who but a truly decieved person... void of any knowledge of God's Grace.... would dare to try to prove that Jesus' Blood and Death, is not God's Grace, given to SINNERS.......and ALL are sinners.

Jesus said.....>>""""I came into the WORLD..........to SAVE SINNERS"">.....and "All have sinned" = ALL are sinners, so ALL quality for Salvation. ALL qualify for Jesus's finished work on THE CROSS.

So, when we understand that The Cross of Christ, is God's Grace, then to LIMIT this......is certainly a demonic Cross Denying, Grace rejecting teaching.

Who but an extremely deceived person... would DENY that God's Son's Sacrifice = "for God so loved the WORLD, (everyone) that He GAVE" Jesus on The Cross for us all ?? John 3:16

A.) Satan and His Ministers would want to LIMIT God's Grace, and so to do that, The Devil has designed "doctrines of Devils"... "man made false teachings" that deny The Cross, by trying to LIMIT IT.

See, Satan's Enemy is the Cross of Christ, as its The Cross of Christ that RESCUES the world of SINNERS = one believer at a time... , and so, the Devil tries to LIMIT the rescue, theologically.

This is the demonic theology : "LIMITED Atonement"..

 

[TLHKAJ]

I have done no such thing...you have continually denied that the Spirit Of God is Alive and Active..you have also denied how the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children.

You have yet to challenge me on my posts...


My belief according to “ you” is condemning people to hell.

Romans 8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans chapter 8 has nothing to do with election or limited atonement. You have not addressed the scripture I posted. You consistently do this.

The WORD OF GOD is alive and active, Rita. The Word is God ....and God is Spirit. You've never seen me say otherwise.

Do you believe Jesus is God?

 

[TLHKAJ]

I find it hard to understand that others do not have the excited, "mind blowing", Power of the Holy Spirit and knowledge of their eternal security in Christ. I like this hymn. "Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine, oh what a foretaste of Glory divine", heir of salvation, purchase of God, Born of His Spirit, washed in His Blood.

My excitement and rejoicing are in the fact that He called and I chose to place my faith in Christ alone.

Have you ever heard His voice calling you to follow Him?

 

[Ritajanice]

Romans chapter 8 has nothing to do with election or limited atonement. You have not addressed the scripture I posted. You consistently do this.

Nonsense....you do exactly the same thing...

The WORD OF GOD is alive and active, Rita. The Word is God ....and God is Spirit. You've never seen me say otherwise.

Do you believe Jesus is God?

Do you believe Gods Living testimony?

◄ 1 Peter 1 ►

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ A Greeting from Peter (2 Peter 1:1–2) 1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the elect who are exiles of the Dispersion throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, chosena 2according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. A Living Hope 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birthb into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in various trials 7so that the proven character of your faith—more precious than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 8Though you have not seen Him, you love Him; and though you do not see Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9now that you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. 10Concerning this salvation, the prophets who foretold the grace to come to you searched and investigated carefully, 11trying to determine the time and setting to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, when they foretold the things now announced by those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things. A Call to Holiness (Hebrews 12:14–17) 13Therefore prepare your minds for action.c Be sober-minded. Set your hope fully on the grace to be given you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14As obedient children, do not conform to the passions of your former ignorance. 15But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do, 16for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”d 17Since you call on a Father who judges each one’s work impartially, conduct yourselves in reverent fear during your stay as foreigners. 18For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your forefathers, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. 20He was known before the foundation of the world, but was revealed in the last times for your sake. 21Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and glorified Him; and so your faith and hope are in God. The Enduring Word (Isaiah 40:6–8) 22Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart.e 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24For, “All flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, 25but the word of the Lord stands forever.”f And this is the word that was proclaimed to you.