Just noticed

[Helen]

Haha! We'll soon be calling ourselves the Pooh club.

. . . .

 

[brakelite]

I am 65. Never read or heard anyone else read Pooh Bear. I feel deprived. So there's very little I can add to that subject...except for our mutual attraction to honey.
But on the subject of love. I think that the capacity for people to love is the greatest evidence for the existence of God. I don't mean brotherly love or erotic love, although both those are common gifts of God to mankind but both of which are often distorted. I mean the love that God has for us, and which in turn is given that we may share it with others. It is that kind of love which is listed first place as a fruit of the spirit. The first fruit we may discern as evidence of the presence of God in the one who professes Christ. Jesus said "without Me ye can do nothing". Self sacrificial love; that same love enables us to love those who would seek to harm or even destroy us if given the opportunity; our enemies. The love which motivates us to be kind and gentle with those who constantly bicker and argue despite the patience and tolerance of those they are opposed to. The love which doesn't seek reward or return. The love that is constant regardless of whether it is responded to in kind. The love which compelled our heavenly Father to give His only begotten Son to a race of beings that He knew would abuse, torture, and eventually kill Him. Because the Father could do no different...it was a part of His nature. It is Who He is. And as we surrender to His working in our lives, to His Spirit working in us, that kind of love will become a part of us also. It doesn't come naturally to the human heart. But it comes naturally to the renewed heart and mind of those born again of the Spirit of the living God. Like I said. Love, that love, is the greatest evidence of the existence of God. Without it I was the most self absorbed individual on this planet.
From my favourite author....

As your conscience has been quickened by the Holy Spirit, you have seen something of the evil of sin, of its power, its guilt, its woe; and you look upon it with abhorrence. You feel that sin has separated you from God, that you are in bondage to the power of evil. The more you struggle to escape, the more you realize your helplessness. Your motives are impure; your heart is unclean. You see that your life has been filled with selfishness and sin. You long to be forgiven, to be cleansed, to be set free. Harmony with God, likeness to Him--what can you do to obtain it?

It is peace that you need--Heaven's forgiveness and peace and love in the soul. Money cannot buy it, intellect cannot procure it, wisdom cannot attain to it; you can never hope, by your own efforts, to secure it. But God offers it to you as a gift, "without money and without price." Isaiah 55:1. It is yours if you will but reach out your hand and grasp it. The Lord says, "Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Isaiah 1:18. "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you." Ezekiel 36:26.

You have confessed your sins, and in heart put them away. You have resolved to give yourself to God. Now go to Him, and ask that He will wash away your sins and give you a new heart. Then believe that He does this because He has promised. This is the lesson which Jesus taught while He was on earth, that the gift which God promises us, we must believe we do receive, and it is ours.

 

[Naomi25]

I do not want to spoil the vibe going on here, or be seen in any way to be trying to be contentious. But...I wonder how you classify love? Because, I would say that the bible teaches a love that is quite deep and complex. True love is walking the path of God and his truth, wouldn't you agree? We know that Christ, when he came, he gave us the ultimate example of what love was. He sacrificed himself for us, and so often he put himself last, made himself the servant. Should we echo that? Absolutely. But what else did Jesus show us? He showed us a love of God's word...how often did he quote what we would call the OT? He used it to combat Satan! The NT tells us that Christ is God's Word incarnate, so...I would think that loving God's word is something we should do.
Jesus also gave us the example of hard love. Love is not just "accepting all, tolerating all". We, as Christians, cannot just say "all's good, because love conquers all". What did Jesus say to the Pharisees when he saw what they were doing was wrong? He called them out on it. Quite harshly too, I might add. I'm not saying we must be harsh, but I believe Jesus shows us without doubt that love is remaining true to God even in the face of others. We love them by telling them what God wants from them. This doesn't have to be rude, or harsh...it's quite possible to communicate God's truth kindly. Whether they take it as it's offered...that's in Gods hands and their own hearts.

Some may see the...rather stubborn nature that people like myself have on sticking to certain issues and think that is bull-headed contentiousness that does no good in the community. But try and see it for what it is: a very deep love for God and his word and his truth. How can we do anything other than stand for him? Just like I imagine it hurts you to see all sort of atrocities in the world (as it should!), it hurts me to see how easily some within the 'church' are letting go of some of the basic, essential truths of God, simply because it doesn't really fit with today's culture of 'tolerance'. God is. He has made that known to us. Shouldn't we respect that, honor that, and love that? I certainly do...it staggers me.

 

[brakelite]

Some may see the...rather stubborn nature that people like myself have on sticking to certain issues and think that is bull-headed contentiousness that does no good in the community. But try and see it for what it is: a very deep love for God and his word and his truth.

Such thoughts were rattling around in my head also, but being one of the 'bulls', couldn't quite find the words to express it without confusing some as to which end of the bull it was coming from. Bull 'pooh' if you will. You've done well.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Some may see the...rather stubborn nature that people like myself have on sticking to certain issues and think that is bull-headed contentiousness that does no good in the community. But try and see it for what it is: a very deep love for God and his word and his truth. How can we do anything other than stand for him? Just like I imagine it hurts you to see all sort of atrocities in the world (as it should!), it hurts me to see how easily some within the 'church' are letting go of some of the basic, essential truths of God, simply because it doesn't really fit with today's culture of 'tolerance'. God is. He has made that known to us. Shouldn't we respect that, honor that, and love that?

Certainly, and I agree. Now the difference for me, however, is this: We have to always be abiding to two commandments simultaneously: Loving God with our whole hearts, and loving our neighbor as ourselves. So in my love for discussing and sharing the word, I have to always keep manifesting love for my neighbor, even if we end up staunchly disagreeing on some theological or social issue. Nothing wrong with holding to one's point of view, so long as you are willing to be open-minded to the possibility of being incorrect sometimes, and I think that's where the trouble comes in. We get nervous about being put to shame, especially by the really nasty folks who circle the forums likes sharks, so we avoid admitting we missed it even when we have because we absolutely have to make sure we save face. That makes it hard to ever find reconciliation, however, because even when we are wrong we refuse to admit it.

I think that's the point the OP was driving at. Those who walk in love seek to overcome all that.

i have been focusing on the jerks on this board for too long. This thread is dedicated to those who advocated for love and read scripture through the lens of love and those who encourage the Body. We are the majority here.

To me, "reading the scriptures through the lens of love" means that regardless of how much more I may know, or how authoritative I become in the word, it never supersedes my top priority which is to act and speak in love at all times.

 

[Helen]

The love of God is greater far
Than tongue or pen can ever tell
It goes beyond the highest star
And reaches to the lowest hell

The guilty pair, bowed down with care
God gave His Son to win
His erring child He reconciled
And pardoned from his sin

Could we with ink the ocean fill
And were the skies of parchment made
Were every stalk on earth a quill
And every man a scribe by trade

To write the love of God above
Would drain the ocean dry
Nor could the scroll contain the whole
Though stretched from sky to sky

O love of God, how rich and pure!
How measureless and strong!
It shall forevermore endure
The saints' and angels' song.

Songwriter: Rev. Benton Vespew Ellis

 

[Helen]

Certainly, and I agree. Now the difference for me, however, is this: We have to always be abiding to two commandments simultaneously: Loving God with our whole hearts, and loving our neighbor as ourselves. So in my love for discussing and sharing the word, I have to always keep manifesting love for my neighbor, even if we end up staunchly disagreeing on some theological or social issue. Nothing wrong with holding to one's point of view, so long as you are willing to be open-minded to the possibility of being incorrect sometimes, and I think that's where the trouble comes in. We get nervous about being put to shame, especially by the really nasty folks who circle the forums likes sharks, so we avoid admitting we missed it even when we have because we absolutely have to make sure we save face. That makes it hard to ever find reconciliation, however, because even when we are wrong we refuse to admit it.

I think that's the point the OP was driving at. Those who walk in love seek to overcome all that.


To me, "reading the scriptures through the lens of love" means that regardless of how much more I may know, or how authoritative I become in the word, it never supersedes my top priority which is to act and speak in love at all times.

Great post.

 

[Helen]

I do not want to spoil the vibe going on here, or be seen in any way to be trying to be contentious. But...I wonder how you classify love? Because, I would say that the bible teaches a love that is quite deep and complex.

I believe, just like the gospel itself...people have 'made' things much more complicated than it is.

If we start at "God is Love"...and go from there...as we stay in Him, we will love..we will love and be lovers, because His life is flowing through us...it is not 'us' that have to struggle to find out what love is or make it complex.

Love just IS, because God is.

Agree..we don't want this thread to 'go sideways' and end up like every other thread.
This is a thread to 'add to' , not distract from. :)
==============================

@brakelite
Post #22 a nice post....So you do have a heart after all ;)

And yes, if you weren't raised on Winnie the Pooh and Piglet...you had a deprived childhood ...and if you didn't read the books to your kids and grandkids...they were deprived too

Have a good day! I am off and running again today...later....H

 

[Willie T]

"Love" is an interesting term. You can just believe in pure and simple "love" as Helen does. Or, you can tack it onto most any kind of self-serving, retributive or vindictive behavior you want to justify.

This Bozo claims he "loves" those people.

 

[Born_Again]

This is breath of fresh air. I'd like to see more threads like this that bring glory to God!! Great thread, Aspen!!

 

[amadeus]

@Hidden In Him

Timeless books...and happily enjoyed at any age. We Pooh lovers must stick together

My wife has always been a great Winnie the Pooh fan. Periodically she will quote something from Winnie and friends

 

[Willie T]

You who removed your "like" from post #29 after I posted the preacher blasting the congregation..... how come you to do that? Did you feel he was really acting out of "love?"

 

[Hidden In Him]

You who removed your "like" from post #29 after I posted the preacher blasting the congregation..... how come you to do that? Did you feel he was really acting out of "love?"

I actually added a like to it after you added that. I thought it was pretty funny, LoL. He seems to be struggling, though, so I guess maybe it's not really all that funny after all. Pastor's sometimes have to deal with a lot of stress, and can put their heart and soul into a message. And when they see their congregation in sin and not taking their spiritual lives seriously, and then falling asleep or playing in the camera room, or not paying any attention... well, they can come unglued sometimes, LoL. He's not in any better shape than they are at this point, and he needs to face the facts. He probably really should pack his bags and leave that church, at least before talking to them like that. He's sinning against them instead of helping them at this point, if he ever was.

Anyway, this is just another symptom of the lukewarm church. Only you rarely see it result in the pastor absolutely imploding like this, LoL.

 

[brakelite]

"Love" is an interesting term. You can just believe in pure and simple "love" as Helen does. Or, you can tack it onto most any kind of self-serving, retributive or vindictive behavior you want to justify.

This Bozo claims he "loves" those people.

Cry aloud, spare not. Lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show My people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

Somewhat harsh perhaps. And pointing out individuals and naming them goes too far. Yet I say good on him for attempting to address problems that are prevalent in the church, problems that are not even recognised in other churches let alone dealt with in any meaningful way. I think that he should be training elders to be more effective in doing such duties so he didn't have to bail people up and shame them in front of the congregation. If someone was asleep. I would suggest this tirade was at the end of an otherwise boring sermon...can't imagine anyone sleeping listening to that. Hiding perhaps, but sleep?

 

[Willie T]

Cry aloud, spare not. Lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show My people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

Somewhat harsh perhaps. And pointing out individuals and naming them goes too far. Yet I say good on him for attempting to address problems that are prevalent in the church, problems that are not even recognised in other churches let alone dealt with in any meaningful way. I think that he should be training elders to be more effective in doing such duties so he didn't have to bail people up and shame them in front of the congregation. If someone was asleep. I would suggest this tirade was at the end of an otherwise boring sermon...can't imagine anyone sleeping listening to that. Hiding perhaps, but sleep?

I have to say that the stupid old fool would likely have deeply regretted it if he had made the mistake of trying to bully me or anyone I care about like that.

 

[Naomi25]

Certainly, and I agree. Now the difference for me, however, is this: We have to always be abiding to two commandments simultaneously: Loving God with our whole hearts, and loving our neighbor as ourselves. So in my love for discussing and sharing the word, I have to always keep manifesting love for my neighbor, even if we end up staunchly disagreeing on some theological or social issue. Nothing wrong with holding to one's point of view, so long as you are willing to be open-minded to the possibility of being incorrect sometimes, and I think that's where the trouble comes in. We get nervous about being put to shame, especially by the really nasty folks who circle the forums likes sharks, so we avoid admitting we missed it even when we have because we absolutely have to make sure we save face. That makes it hard to ever find reconciliation, however, because even when we are wrong we refuse to admit it.

I think that's the point the OP was driving at. Those who walk in love seek to overcome all that.

I don't disagree at all. It is the height of arrogance to think we "know it all". We can strive to understand God's truth as best we can and hold fast to it, I think, but even in our faithfulness there has to be a certain amount of realism that we have much to learn and we simply cannot grasp all that God has for us. I think...through scripture there are some truths that we can just know. God has made them quite clear to us. And standing on those gives us hope, and, yes, love. So many of the other issues, however, are ones of constant growth and learning, and..well...I actually like that. I like that we can go forward with an open mind to see if he has anything new for us, but still have the truth of scripture to fall back on and check everything against to make sure everything new is still 'legit'.

Sometimes I think a lot of the contention that comes on boards like this is because people 'think' so very differently. We spend so much time and frustration chasing a thought around and around, and in the end, still come out not really sure what we've been talking about...do we agree...do we disagree...were we even talking about the same thing??

And...well...loving others as we love ourselves. That is a somewhat tricky proposition, is it not? Some people love themselves, but others are excessively hard on themselves! And again, is it perhaps hard to judge how a person truly treats and loves others on a forum like this? I find it particularly difficult at times to appropriately express...um...emotions? At times the conversations seem to be particularly focused on fact and doctrine, and that is how I respond. Full confession, however, I am HF ASD, so I do tend to hyper focus on one thing to the exclusion of others. But in general, in everyday life...it's not that hard to treat others like they share the image of God like we ourselves do. Every single person out there is loved by God, and even if they don't come to Christ, we need to love them like they will. That is our missionary act.

 

[Helen]

You who removed your "like" from post #29 after I posted the preacher blasting the congregation..... how come you to do that? Did you feel he was really acting out of "love?"

Who are you addressing Willie?

The ONLY person who can remove a "like" is the person who gave it!
It wasn't me...as I have only just come home..and only just read you post

 

[Naomi25]

I believe, just like the gospel itself...people have 'made' things much more complicated than it is.

If we start at "God is Love"...and go from there...as we stay in Him, we will love..we will love and be lovers, because His life is flowing through us...it is not 'us' that have to struggle to find out what love is or make it complex.

Love just IS, because God is.

Agree..we don't want this thread to 'go sideways' and end up like every other thread.
This is a thread to 'add to' , not distract from. :)

If we're talking about how love is within us and how we feel it, etc, then, absolutely, I don't think it's at all complicated and we shouldn't over think it. Love, the emotion of love, is meant to just be felt...it's intuitive, I think, at it's base.

But...(sorry...there had to be a "but"!)..do we look at Jesus and see the love he had for his Father as he chastised the Pharisees, or turned over the tables in the temple and whipped the sellers out of there in righteous anger, and concede that love is only a feel good emotion that is only a simple, one layered thing?

I think we must accept that it is, at times, both. Because God is both. He IS love, just as you say. But he IS truth, and he IS justice. If we are Christians, and have the Holy Spirit within us, we must accept and experience all of who God is, and these things are not necessarily separated out. Justice comes because of love. Truth is upheld with justice through love.

Ok....I made my point, so i'll stop now! I have to say, apart from my "buts", that I totally agree with this thread. It can be hard and a downer, sometimes, when you come onto a Christian site looking for encouragement or meaningful dialogue and end up in pointy-fingered arguments. It helps to be reminded that one day we will be in a place where we will truly be one giant family. It's a strange thought, sometimes, isn't it? The world is so big, there's just no way we can know, intimately, Christians on the other side of the world. But in heaven, we'll know everyone like brothers and sisters. It'd be nice to have that break into the here and know a bit....(she said, reminding herself as much as anyone else....)

 

[Helen]

"Love" is an interesting term. You can just believe in pure and simple "love" as Helen does. Or, you can tack it onto most any kind of self-serving, retributive or vindictive behavior you want to justify.

This Bozo claims he "loves" those people.

Wow! That reminds me of a minister I know...but I will leave him nameless.

The thing is he has missed the point...they are not HIS sheep...they are God's.

Wow, what an ego!! I can't listen any more of it...so sad...

( but, why do the come back each week...that man has a cult mentality and so do his congregation!!!! )

 

[Helen]

Ok....I made my point, so i'll stop now! I have to say, apart from my "buts", that I totally agree with this thread. It can be hard and a downer, sometimes, when you come onto a Christian site looking for encouragement or meaningful dialogue and end up in pointy-fingered arguments.

Maybe it is just me, but I think that it is a pity there are buts here..I think this is the wrong thread for them really...this I thought was a thread for encouragements and uplifts, different from the usual run of the mill threads...not so much for questions and doubts....but maybe I am wrong and it is 'just another thread'... just like all the others. Oh well, at least Aspen tried.